The Big Four: White Star Line's Most Successful Ships

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The Big Four class of ships were perhaps the most successful and profitable ocean liners in White Star Line's history. While they were not as glamorous as Olympic or Titanic or as fast as Oceanic, they were practical, comfortable, and popular transatlantic vessels. In fact, some of White Star's most profitable years can be largely attributed to Celtic, Cedric, Baltic, and Adriatic.
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Thanks to the following sites for some images used in this video:
www.gracesguide.co.uk/Main_Page
titanicofficers.com
Sources:
1. “The ‘Big Four’ of the White Star Fleet: Celtic, Cedric, Baltic, & Adriatic” by Mark Chirnside. 2016.
2. “The Evolution of the White Star Line Fleet.” Part-Time Explorer. April 22, 2021. • The Evolution of the W...
3. “Oceanic: White Star’s ‘Ship of the Century,’” by Mark Chirnside. 2018.
4. “Titanic: The Death and Life of a Legend,” by Michael Davie. 1986.
5. “Falling Star: Misadventures of White Star Line Ships,” by John P. Eaton and Charles A. Haas. 1989.

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28 июл 2021

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Комментарии : 323

@low_quality_films 3 года назад

Idk why ocean liners and ships are so interesting but they are

@daze00k 3 года назад

Say the with Levi lol

@low_quality_films 3 года назад

@@daze00k what😐

@rodrigolefever2426 2 года назад

Ocean linera are ships

@low_quality_films 2 года назад

@@rodrigolefever2426 I meant other types of ships like sail ships etc

@low_quality_films 2 года назад

@@colorad6018 huh you is ?

@Daniel_Huffman 3 года назад

The Big Four still had connections to the _Titanic_ Disaster well into the 1920s: On the 11th of August, 1922, _Adriatic_ suffered a gas explosion in one of her reserve coal bunkers that killed five men, including _Titanic_ survivor Christopher Shulver.

@DoctorDoctorRBLX 2 года назад

Huh, I did not know that.

@PelsckoPolesko 2 года назад

this is some cursed final destination stuff.

@jessedierksheide 2 года назад

Interesting

@personal9146 2 года назад

@@PelsckoPolesko no I wouldn’t say it’s cursed

@crankyoldguy2 2 года назад

Remember that well trained, seasoned crew were a valuable commodity. All of the crew of the Titanic was placed in similar positions or advanced in rank (officers) in other White Star ships. Titanic sank in 1912, but the careers of her surviving crew continued well into the 1920's. Olympic also received Titanic survivor crew and some were still aboard when she was sold and scrapped. It's a fascinating side story.

@aleksavuksanovic3899 3 года назад

The Big Four ships honestly,are quite great in what they achieved and what they did. Its amazing,really.

@matthess1489 3 года назад

My great grandfather, his sister and mother sailed on the Adriatic in Nov. 1907. The captain on that voyage was Captain Smith. Smith stayed with the Adriatic until the Olympic entered service.

@Big_potater 2 года назад

Very very interesting

@garcello5550 Год назад

Wow-

@lilsquidyyy Год назад

I never knew about captain smith staying with the adriatic! i only knew him because of the titanic

@CharlesGabrielleRepato-xt3ww 9 месяцев назад

In a loving memory of the RMS Celtic, RMS Cedric, RMS Baltic and RMS Adriatic

@WhiteArrow76 2 года назад

7:15 White Star's practice of providing private cabins to married couples and families actually began with Teutonic and Majestic, with the rest of the passengers berthed in 20-person dormitory style rooms. This practice carried over with Cymric and Oceanic, but Celtic broke the mold. At the forward end there were 600 berths in dormitory rooms, while the rest were quartered aft in two, four and six berth cabins. The forward berths were only used when the ship was fully booked, and the aft accommodation was divided into six sections, three on E Deck and three on F Deck, divided by watertight bulkheads. The forwardmost on each deck were commonly occupied by men, while women, married couples and families took the rest

@jamespostle6894 2 года назад

i thought it was single men in the front, families and couples in the middle, and single women in the back. idk though.

@CJODell12 Год назад

@@jamespostle6894 Yes the dormitory rooms in the bow were occupied by the single men. While single women, married couples, and families had cabins.

@giovannirastrelli9821 3 года назад

Interesting how such game changing ships that helped revolutionize the industry are now all but forgotten.

@johnkringe 3 года назад

By far one of my favorite ship classes. Adriatic was so incredible

@Kaidhicksii 3 года назад

I've always had a healthy respect for the Big Four, but I never knew that they lead such long, profitable, lucky and all around incredible lives. Wow. Heavily underrated they are. This was an especially good watch to get to know them better, so thanks for doing them justice as always. I'll try to catch up with your older videos when I can. :)

@CJODell12 2 года назад

1:02. Footage of the RMS Teutonic (1889) leaving New York Harbor in 1902. Her top speed was 20.5 knots or 23.6 miles per hour. Her fastest crossing was in August of 1891 when she made a westbound crossing in 5 days, 16 hours and 30 minutes.

@taylorclifford6364 3 года назад

I'm Irish and have been to the harland and Wolffe shipyard I know that it is known for the titanic but so many famous ships from different lines were built here even not so long ago and to queenstown and have looked out at the water the many ships that must of been seen there is amazing

@aodhganmerrimac 2 года назад

Wonderful history of the Big Four, thank you. My paternal grandmother & family emigrated to the U.S. aboard the R.M.S. Celtic from Cobh to Boston in August 1925 7 days, 7 hours & 42 minutes with an average speed of 15.67 knots. She said it wasn't the most pleasant journey. I have a nice little card with a picture of the Celtic & an abstract of the long . It's a wonderful memento.

@hallamhal 3 года назад

6:53 that pun absolutely made my day

@cunard61 2 года назад

Just a note, the bent armed, tubular davits used on many ships from this time, are called radial davits. They were quite common, and lasted well into first half of the 20th Century.

@WhiteArrow76 2 года назад

One crucial part of the formula for the plan for the Big Four was the Cymric. She was the first of White Star's intermediate liners, entering service the year before Oceanic and later spending most of her career on the Liverpool to Boston service. She'd initially been designed as a livestock carrier with accommodation for 258 First Class passengers, so her smaller engines left more space for passenger accommodations. Later her design was changed and her livestock areas were replaced with accommodations for 1,160 Third Class passengers. Compared to Oceanic she sailed more smoothly, consumed less fuel and made for a bit more comfortable crossing

@th8257 Год назад

Literally cattle class!

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

The Big Four were quite slow for large Atlantic liners, but shipbuilding is a game of tradeoffs. Assuming the price of the ticket is the same, would you rather cross the Atlantic on a slower, more comfortable ship or a faster, less comfortable ship?

@diegoarias7774 3 года назад

Fast ships like the Lusitania and Normandie had very noticeable vibration in the aft portion (3rd class) of the ship. Slower ships like the RMS Olympic were preferred to the likes of RMS Mauritania.

@jingvinz 3 года назад

Hmm probs a faster ship

@Blue555 3 года назад

Slower because the journey is half the adventure of travelling.

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

@@diegoarias7774 Yes, vibration was a common issue especially on fast ships. A slower ship would be less likely to experience this, thus adding further to the comfort.

@mr.juniii5523 3 года назад

i agree great there max speed is only 17 knots kinda slow for a large ocean liner the older oceanic 2 was even faster than them is a max speed of 19 knots and the olympic class out ranked there speed of 21 knots i kinda agree with you great . also i think white star thinked that the lower the speed is the cheeper is to man the ship.

@rogerrendzak8055 2 года назад

One of the best 'ship', documentaries, I've EVER seen!! I have heard of these ships, but they were not that well mentioned. UNTIL now! Excellently assembled, and informative! …………And on a humorous level, it's strange how a British ship, (the "Adriatic "), helped with the 'attack', on Pearl Harbor🤔. Whaaa? Possibly true! If you listen, @22:50, they talk about how they sold the scrap metal to Japan, in 1934 (just in time, huh)?

@Ei_No 3 года назад

An amazing ship class, just wish they were more similar to the 1899 Oceanic. She is truly beautiful!

@EternalModerate 3 года назад

Agreed, the island bridge is weird

@Ei_No 3 года назад

@@EternalModerate they would look so much better if the superstructure was one continuous structure

@tinypoolmodelshipyard 2 года назад

@@Ei_No agreed. Oceanic is my favorite. Her lines where a step up from the tuetonic class, and i think only the olympic class (WSL Ships) can match the Queen of the Sea lines

@insight-chris7570 2 года назад

This Video was very informative, so thank you for putting your effort into it. I actually didn't knew that they had multiple refits and that they were white Stars testbed for the new Class System abord ships. But what I allready knew was the story about Cesar, when he was released from his captivity he managed to get the whole pirate crew located and killed afterwould because he was so pissed at them in case you didn't knew that allready.

@burry__ 2 года назад

I love how you describe the ships so well you don’t even have to look at the video! You can just listen and it all makes sense.

@ianatkinson9227 3 года назад

The big four is my fav class of ships I just wished at least one of them where still here today

@djjayem100 3 года назад

Always wanted to look inside those pre 1912 ships.

@TimCan144 3 года назад

I happen to have the blueprints of the Adriatic, and I also have the blueprints to the half-sister Lapland that served for the red star line. Update: Now I got Suevic, Runic(Imo), Justicia, and Atlantic

@jofreddy8643 3 года назад

hello friend : )

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

That's awesome

@mr.juniii5523 3 года назад

nice one

@bananacat4945 3 года назад

wow! is it okay if I ask you how you acquired them?

@TimCan144 3 года назад

@@bananacat4945 i'll just say I know some people, the blueprints are not the real physical copy but I have a massive collection of PDFs that are just blueprints of various ships, just so happens someone was kind enough to send me blueprints of one of the big four, and the half sister.

@owenpowers1695 3 года назад

I honestly really enjoy this content, and only a "small" group of people know about this channel, everybody share these vids!

@TheGreatBigMove 2 года назад

Yes, please share with your friends and on social media. It's the best way to support the channel.

@jetsons101 3 года назад

The Big Four looked to be floating art. Great use of B & W photos to help tell the story. We like your channel because you get to the point of the story and don't veer off course. Thanks for your time, work and posting.....

@brendankolo6818 3 года назад

Amazing video! Just a suggestion, but I think it would be cool for you to make a video on the Cunard liners Campania and Lucania! They don’t get talked about too much.

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

Great suggestion! I have been wanting to do exactly that. Stay tuned and hopefully I'll get to it.

@kimchipig 3 года назад

I just love your work, so professional, excellent research, beautiful graphics but most importantly, the passion that goes into each episode. Many thanks for your enormous effort to make video like this.

@straker454 3 года назад

I have been looking forward to this one. There's not a lot of talk about The Big Four and I honestly could have watched a much MUCH longer video about these ships.

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

I could have made this one longer, but that’s the case for all of my videos. I try to keep them to a manageable length for all audiences, but I encourage you to check out the sources (in the description) for more info

@I_am_a_cat_ 3 года назад

This channel is so good. I love learning about these old, beautiful ocean liners. I LOVE going on cruises... but I wish I could have experienced first class on an ocean liner. Just to experience the refinement.

@Dave_Sisson 3 года назад

Try one of the smaller Cunard ships, Queen Victoria or Queen Elizabeth. They're more than twice the size of the Olympic class, but rather moderately sized by modern standards. They are obviously modern ships with modern facilitates, but they do have the rather stuffy formality of the olden days. They would be closest to what you are looking for.

@I_am_a_cat_ 3 года назад

@@Dave_Sisson I mean I wanna experience it, but I'd still rather spend that money on a cruise lol. I'm not actually going out looking for ocean liners to go on. But thanks :)

@toddbonin6926 3 года назад

Fantastic video! You did a wonderful tribute to these four ladies. Thank you!

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

Thank you, Todd!

@geodot595 3 года назад

just fine work here chimes in with everything ive come across in 50 yrs of study. fine compliment to mark chirnsides volume of these 4 sisters.

@giovannirastrelli9821 3 года назад

I think I saw Don Lynch state somewhere that even though Adriatic was smaller than Lusitania and Mauretania, she still offered more passenger space per square foot than the two greyhounds.

@AlextheHistorian 3 года назад

This is THE BEST video about the big four on RU-vid. Very good work!

@CJODell12 Год назад

According to Mark Chirnside’s book, the Big Four carried a combined 1,489,625 passengers over their careers. * Celtic - 357,286 passengers * Cedric - 335,357 passengers * Baltic - 460,962 passengers * Adriatic - 336,020 passengers

@giovannidispirito9056 3 года назад

I’m new to the channel but absolutely hooked already from the content

@merafirewing6591 3 года назад

The real workhorses of the White Star Line.

@kriszuraw2255 3 года назад

Yay thanks for making a video about late 19th century and 20th century ocean liners!

@marijorieholoway6783 Год назад

Great video! Ty

@whovianhistorybuff 2 года назад

4:00 wow so Celtic could carry about 300 more passengers than any of the Olympic class liners

@alfi6745 3 года назад

Didn’t even know about them… Very interesting! Great Video!

@Electriceye1984bySam Год назад

Very informative👌🏻 thx

@sadiedavenport 3 года назад

Excellent video! I really enjoyed this.

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

Thanks, Johanna!

@justinlynch3 3 года назад

Sounds like the Big Four and Olympic (Old Reliable) where the real workhorses of the White Star fleet.

@josegabrieldelgadoalonso487 3 месяца назад

Fantástico video 👏🏻👏🏻

@CJODell12 2 года назад

Also Celtic survived serious damage twice during her service as a troopship in WWI. On 15 February 1917, Celtic struck a mine laid by U-80 off the Isle of Man. 17 people were killed but Celtic stayed afloat. Then on 31 March 1918, Celtic was torpedoed twice by UB-77. 6 people were killed but again, Celtic stayed afloat.

@Bulgarian_Coastline 3 года назад

Well, they really were the most successful ones. I can't wait to see this video!

@allinmyhead 3 года назад

Really enjoy this channel

@jamesfrost7465 Год назад

Love it! Awesome view of a replica ship the 'Mayflower' at 6:08. I think that's the Mayflower. I need to get a poster made of this view. Wonderful video, I've never seen much of these clips Good job! I'm a model ship maker for a museum, 29 years. We have a 1/3rd scale model of the Mayflower, 27 feet long! Also a 30 foot model of the Queen Elizabeth and a 18 foot model of the QEll. Next year I'm to start building 15 new Ocean Liner models. Mostly 350th scale. Olympic and Maruatinia in their WW1 Dazzle paint schemes.

@CJODell12 2 года назад

I also found out something not mentioned here. Baltic’s engines initially were not scaled up accordingly to her size increase over Celtic and Cedric, so she had a harder time maintaining a 16 knot service speed for the first few voyages until she was given larger engines by Harland and Wolff.

@BritBattler 3 года назад

I have a suggestion. The paddle steamer waverley. The ship has such a interesting history, i think its perfect for your channel.

@patrickryan6065 Год назад

Out of all ships planned for the North Atlantic, from any company and from any country, with multiple ships planned for the weekly service, I’m pretty sure only the big four actually ran as planned with all ships working together.

@TheGreatBigMove Год назад

It certainly does seem that planned running mates rarely worked out. Partly bad luck and partly the nature of operating such large and complicated shipping operations.

@CJODell12 11 месяцев назад

⁠@@TheGreatBigMove The Big Four carried almost 1.5 million combined passengers on just transatlantic crossings. Cruises undoubtedly added several thousand more to the total. * Celtic - 357,286, 499 crossings (249.5 round trips), average 716 per crossing * Cedric - 335,357, 514 crossings (257 round trips), average 652 per crossing * Baltic - 460,962, 625 crossings (312.5 round trips), average 738 per crossing * Adriatic - 336,020, 493 crossings (246.5 round trips), average 682 per crossing

@CJODell12 11 месяцев назад

5:56. The exact fee was 1 shilling per person. 5,162 people visited Celtic on July 24, 1901, two days before her maiden voyage, meaning White Star raised a total of £258 and 2 shillings, the equivalent of £40,587.67 in 2023 or $51,205.40 USD in August 2023.

@foxstarline4997 3 года назад

So Ready!!!!!

@Massev6871 3 года назад

I'm proud to own some furnishings from the Celtic. Great video.

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

That’s awesome, what do you have?

@Massev6871 3 года назад

They are in storage but I have 2 wash stands, 2 wooden bunk sides, 4 wooden drawers (underneath one is written "radio room" in pencil and on the back of one of the wash stands is written "lavatory". I particularly love the idea of the drawer being from the radio room that exchanged messages with RMS Titanic.

@yeetusfleetus3855 2 года назад

Could you maybe do a Video about the important Harbours of that era Hoboken Liverpool Southhampten etc? Thanks a lot

@stevebuscemi3622 2 года назад

I would of wanted to see all 4 drag race thru the atlantic. That would be bad ass

@carol7311 3 года назад

These 4 saw the Beginning of a New Century and they would meet their end nearly together as the world would go through one of its darkest times before a very dark moment in history would begin The Big Four truly deserve a lot of love for Journeys Together as The Group of Sisters who carried their company til its very end in 1934. While they may be scrapped, they will sail on in our hearts

@WhiteArrow76 2 года назад

I'm also a historian on the White Star Line, with a main focus on the company's impact on late 19th and early 20th century immigration

@TheGreatBigMove 2 года назад

I've read some of your comments and it seems like you know your stuff. Do you have any books you would recommend for me? I've read quite a few already, but always looking for more advanced sources. Feel free to send me an email (available if you click on my channel) if you'd prefer to chat there.

@anthonywatts2033 3 года назад

Its interesting that White Star preferred 4 ships fleets compared to Cunard that tended to build a succession of pairs.

@CJODell12 2 года назад

Out of all the Big Four ships I’d want to sail first class on Adriatic the most. Especially during one of her winter cruises in the Mediterranean.

@jessaphillips2846 3 года назад

It would be interesting to do some videos talking about how long some of the more popular ships were in service, by talking about the oldest ships in service when they started and the newest ship in service when they were sent to the breakers… especially on ships like Olympic that had such a long service life.

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

That is an interesting idea. I’ll think about that.

@ItzTheEpicDoge 3 года назад

Learned a lot from this, thank you! ❤️

@TheJordan08 3 года назад

The size of these ships is breathtaking

@yosef.d1 3 года назад

Indeed.

@pedroaraken2 2 года назад

the big four are by far, the most financial successfully ocean liner class EVER.

@TheGreatBigMove 2 года назад

Hm, I suppose that that's possible but would be difficult to verify.

@Brock_Landers 3 года назад

You don't ever have to thank us for watching brother, we are fans of yours and we watch because we love the videos and your content. But you're very welcome and we appreciate your efforts!

@PennsyPappas 3 года назад

They sound as if they were the true workhorses of the White Star Line for the first 30 years or so of the 20th Century and didnt have to be the biggest nor the fastest to do it. At least they weren't as "cursed" as the Olympic Class ships. Glad to hear some history on these ships.

@RollerCoasters62719 Год назад

The Adriatic is my favorite ocean liner of all time simply because of how luxurious the design is

@CJODell12 Год назад

Adriatic is at least in my Top 10, maybe even Top 5, partly because she was the immediate forerunner to the Olympic.

@johndonaldson3619 3 года назад

That was excellent - thank you PS, I'd love to know more about dazzle paint on ww1 ships

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

I’ll think about doing that

@insight-chris7570 2 года назад

Short anwser on that is to break up the silhouettes of Ships to the point were they aren't identfyable anymore. The Great Big Move gave a wonderful example for that in this very Video at 16:42. You can see very clearly that the silhouette of the Ships is broken to the part that you would not be able to tell if this would be one or two ships from 2 Miles away. Hope that gave you a little insight :)

@WhiteArrow76 2 года назад

They were the first British liners to have Third Class capacities of over 2,000.

@airline.pictures 3 года назад

Could you make a video about the United States Line’s earlier ships?

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

Yes, I plan to at some point.

@Katoshi_Takagumi 3 года назад

Never knew that.. wow.

@heatherswanson9133 3 года назад

Would you be interested in talking about air combat in WWI? I think it would be an interesting video idea!

@johanbjorklund2815 2 года назад

I think it would have been worth mentioning the ordered but (due to the war) cancelled fifth ship of the class, the SS Germanic of 33,600 GRT ordered in April 1914.

@puppywing8693 2 года назад

she wans't the 5th of the class. rather, she was basically a much more modern adriatic, so like a mix of olympic and adriatic. i still agree though that the germanic 2 should have got a little spotlight time though :)

@AaronKinney-sd9rk 3 месяца назад

I found out not long ago that a distant relative was on the Adriatic in first class

@queeg6473 3 года назад

Have you done the HMS Natal which sank in Invergordon harbour in Scotland after a HUGE explosion during an onboard party?

@DiabolikalRA 3 года назад

Just searched it. Natal is the namesake of the province I live in in south Africa. I see that it had connections to the north of my province. Very interesting read. Thank you for giving that suggestion.

@queeg6473 3 года назад

@@DiabolikalRA I do enjoy your channel. :) I'm restoring an old house on the high street in Invergordon and will be able to see the Natal gardens (built in it's memory) from my upstairs windows - when I get them uncovered......

@DJOctobot Год назад

No one called out the pun: The Piano was noteworthy 6:53

@CJODell12 Год назад

Celtic’s net tonnage was 13,449 tons, an increase of 92 percent over Oceanic’s 6,996 net tonnage. This is also why Celtic could carry 2,859 passengers compared to Oceanic’s 1,710 passengers (a 67 percent increase).

@roelantverhoeven371 3 года назад

it was the smaller but similar looking Lapland of red star line that took home titanic's crew

@Engine33Truck Год назад

Interestingly, the decision to dispose of the remaining members of the Big Four came just before the White Star-Cunard merger. The metric used to decide which company would absorb the other was size of fleets. Disposing of the remaining three of the Big Four put White Star just under Cunard in number of ships, so led to Cunard absorbing White Star.

@CJODell12 Год назад

Cunard had 15 ships and White Star had 10 at the time of the merger. Adriatic was withdrawn in September 1934, a few months after the merger.

@danielkorladis7869 3 года назад

Was "Celtic" pronounced that way, like the backetball team? Or with a hard C like the language family (that both Irish and Gaelic, as well as Welsh belong to)?

@AvengerII 3 года назад

Hard "K," not soft "C"! That's how the ship's name is pronounced in the UK.

@vilstef6988 Год назад

Caesar's ransom: The ransom Caesar insisted on was 50 talents of silver, not 50 pieces. A talent is a weight measure which would be about 1500 KG of silver, which would likely exceed 1.5 million USD

@garcello5550 Год назад

Can you do a video about Britannic (1874)

@CoolMethGames807 3 года назад

Can you make a video about uss cyclops

@CJODell12 3 года назад

I don't think you mentioned it but the RMS Adriatic was the first ocean liner to have an indoor swimming pool and a Turkish steam bath onboard.

@TheGreatBigMove 3 года назад

I think I did, but either way that is correct.

@CJODell12 2 года назад

@@TheGreatBigMove After rewatching the video, I see you did mention it after all. My mistake.

@CJODell12 2 года назад

@@TheGreatBigMove Again my bad for not remembering

@RankKnight16 3 года назад

My dreams come true

@chaicego Год назад

These ships, which were built in the late 1890's to the early 1900's lasted longer than any olympic class liner.

@cooperszone 3 года назад

*apples to apples... But Terrific video nonetheless!

@pantherplatform 3 года назад

Did you record this from across't the room?

@jeofreysaguilot4083 Год назад

-cool- AWESOME

@CJODell12 Год назад

9:51. Baltic’s rescue of the Republic’s passengers.

@CJODell12 Год назад

Oceanic could carry a total of 1,710 passengers (410 first, 300 second, 1,000 third), which is less than what the Big Four could carry in third class alone (1,900 to 2,350)

@changlisatoru 3 месяца назад

I hope they rebuild The Big Four again

@TheDanx666 3 года назад

Never clicked on a notification this fast.

@leerogish7223 2 года назад

Charles lightoller said once upon a time it was his dream to serve on the Celtic. By 1920 when his wish came true Celtic was obsolete and lightoller was overqualified to serve as chief officer on an obsolete ship which is why he left white star after being denied a transfer to the lines better ships.