Challenge accepted lol I’ve had the first book downloaded for years now but never gotten around to it. This all the motivation I needed! Peace and wholeness fam
I never got past book 4 or 5 (been so long I can't recall which I ended on). Weirdly, knowing it has a satisfying ending makes me more interested in finally going back and finishing it. *whips out library card*
This is especially great because it kind of mirrors Rands ending. She carefully constructed a situation to fake her own death and now she gets to live anonymous. The irony is she will live on not knowing that Rand did the same.
@@haplozetetic9519 Yeah pretty sure if Lews Therin was dead she would have known it instantly. And considering her abilities in dreaming, she'd be able to see his "light" easily, even though it's in a different body. She was able to find Rand in the first place because of her connection to his soul.
I know it's a bit non-sequitor, but if you want something 100% free and the closest I've ever seen to being comparably amazing, try the Wandering Inn. The largest fault I can put on it is just that the 1st book starts pretty slow, but the series is one massive snowball in terms of quality and grand scope.
I would love to see a sequel trilogy: Mat and Perrin going off to fix the Seanchan, Logain politicking with/against Cadsuane and maybe going south to the Mad Lands, Nynaeve reclaiming the borderlands, the Aiel reforming themselves, whatever is going on in Shara now, there's tons to cover!
Visiting the mad lands would be an interesting one as newer male channellers would not go insane, but seeing how they use the one power, and their attitudes, learning from the mad channellers and the whole nature/nurture impact of how they are raised
Add to that. Rand's kids vs Lanfear showdown! With a small cameo of dad at the end. Or better yet, her becoming a sort of Gandalf to their Frodo, going on adventures together. Lanfear trying to subtly influence their mindset and thinking in bad directions, but end up growing to truly care for them towards the end.
It's just the perfect little nugget. Absolutely my favorite Forsaken and one of my favorite antagonists in fiction, having that ending confirmed is just... *chefs kiss*
I really think we just need a book of all RJ's notes. I think that would satisfy most fans rather than having more books because then we can still deepdive into the world some more.
Tbh, Sanderson said back in 2020, that the three books that he wrote for the series were RJ's notes, combined with his writing, so you already have some of it.
I personally would like to know what bits of the last 3 books came from Jordan's notes and what bits Sanderson created on his own. Apart from finding it Interesting I think it would help me make sense of the books. Some of the things that happen just done seem very in keeping with Jordan and it drives me to distraction trying to wonder if I'm wrong or if Sanderson created those on his own
I remember thinking it was a really anticlimactic end for her. I remember thinking it was weird that she didn’t even interact with Rand. But there were so many other things going on at the same time in that book, I was like, eh okay
I think the problem is that she is one of the forsaken and they have all been quite incompetent through the series so you go like: "yeah, I can see she making a dumb mistake and getting her neck twisted." at least that's what I told myself.
Yeah, something felt odd about it to me, too, but I never thought more of it. I’m reasonably certain that I never would’ve thought of this, though, even if I had started thinking about her “death” again.
It definitely felt rushed and a bit weird of an ending for an important character but I just put it down to a combination of poor understanding of the character and rushing her ending to try and tie up as many of the major loose threads as possible without the book being too long or needing an extra one.
I’ve missed this kind of content from you!!! It’s how I first found this channel. There’s so much clear, genuine love from you for this series. This felt like an O. G. video. Never stop doing WOT deep dives. Or deep dives into other worlds, series, or just random books you like that have stood the rest of time. 💜💜 I’m also weirdly glad she’s not dead. It always bothered me just a bit that Perrin could take her out on her home turf.
I still haven’t read wheel of time (I KNOW, I KNOW!!) but I love watching videos of Daniel talking about it because he’s so passionate and talks about it in a way that makes want to get around to it faster.
As someone who literally started the Wheel of Time because of Daniel’s passion, I can 100% confirm his passion is justified. Read the whole series in four months and had a massive book depression afterwards haha
I know it's a bit non-sequitor, but if you want something 100% free and the closest I've ever seen to being comparably amazing to the Wheel, try the Wandering Inn. The largest fault I can put on it is just that the 1st book starts pretty slow, but the series is one massive snowball in terms of quality and grand scope. If money's an object, free's a great price.
I spent 10 years DM'ing an online Wheel of Time roleplaying game with over 100 players, and got so immersed that I was almost fluent in the Old Tongue. And this Lanfear reveal completely slipped me by as well. Wow. Time to write some more WoT fanfiction!
I think it is worth mentioning that Perrin is far from stupid. Quick witted and clever? No that would be Matt. But he is a deep thinker. In this hypothetical future series as his mastery of the world of dreams grows he MIGHT guess at the possibility. But Lanfear could just avoid him for 60 or so years.
We're told this (Perrin's slow to speak/react, but he's not stupid) many times during the series, but I can't actually remember any examples of Perrin being notably intelligent.
Hey lsdeann, it’s been a minute since I’ve read though the books but I think the battle of Malden and the fork root tea plan is a good example. Wasn’t the plan where Rand throws him across the room his too? So he could go look for the prophet?
Lanfear's death always made sense to me because her biggest character trait was always over-confidence. She thinks she's the best at everything but repeatedly loses because she underestimates those around her. Especially when it comes to the world of dreams, she claims to be the best but is repeatedly shown to be outclassed in the dream world
Same. Especially because the compulsion didn't even fail, Perrin just killed her in spite of it through sheer willpower and was left with lifelong trauma as a result. Really didn't read like something she had planned for.
"daughter of the night" & "Lord of the morning" Both are the strongest in OP with respect to their gender (before she gets drained), one opens the bore and the other seals it
I remember when I got to Lanfears death in AMoL and I did think “huh that was it for Lanfear?” But I just assumed her ending was one of those things they didn’t have the notes to expand. This makes a lot more sense
I love how the books end in such a clean way but also so open-ended. Sanderson and Jordan left the gates wide open for readers to imagine what happens after the end, and for a series the describes such a living, breathing world, with characters in it, the end of the character's stories doesn't feel like the end of the world. Randland lives on in our hearts and minds.
If you ever find yourself in the realm of Dream (of the Endless), be sure to check out his library, where you will find every story never written, including the sequel to the WoT.
I just kept waiting for that final scene when Selene would show up and give us all a final wink before also disappearing into the night. Glad it wasn't just a dream
Lanfear menacing the new world peace of the dragon, Androl and Pevara's adventures towards stopping her would be a great spinoff, but nobody could write it like Jordan
(I should precede my comment by saying that Brandon Sanderson did a wonderful job finishing the Wheel of time, and I appreciate the effort he put into it.) I think one thing that contributed to many fans not catching this is the fact that the feel of several characters changed between books 11 and 12 (especially Mat). There was a noticeable difference in the prose as well, so Lanfear acting out of character just sort of blended in with everything else. It's possible that there are more secrets we overlooked because we attributed them to Sanderson not having as much experience with writing as he does today, and I anticipate watching out for them in a future re-read.
I don’t think this was due to lack of writing experience, moreso the fact that it’s a different author writing already existing characters. That’s a tall ask for any writer to come in and fit smoothly into an 11 book series
Absolutely. Robert Jordan also did his pre-writing differently than Sanderson, and I'm sure that many details were kept in his head and never made it into the notes he left behind.
I explicitly remember reading Memory of Light for the first time and thinking that Lanfear’s ending was unsatisfying and didn’t make sense, but I also thought the same thing for Padan Fain’s end and there’s no twist on that one. I just chalked it up to Sanderson having to have her do something and Jordan didn’t leave much for him to work with. Even before Sanderson took over the Forsaken had been caught in this weird limbo of being super powerful and dangerous but also not so competent as to actually get much done. Her ending as presented on face value matches the pattern already set, so I liked the reveal that actually there was a deeper plot much more aligned with how the Forsaken are talked about.
I think something we can all appreciate is that Sanderson did everything possible to tell Jordan’s story rather than his own. That kind of humility is rare and admirable.
@@fakjbf3129 I have only finished book 3 (and do not plan on continuing), why are the forsaken considered formidable? Is it a case of the narration or lore informing us they are a BIG deal but always lose to the protagonists?
WOT: The gift that keeps on giving. So glad I found your channel a few years ago and bit the bullet at your suggestion on WOT. It has lead me down a a trail of awesome. From WOT to the Cosmere and back again. Nothing useful to say. Anyone who hasn't read WOT yet, do it. When you hit the lull in the middle, keep going. You'll thank us later.
End scene in the WoT-series. ******* Rand on farm. Camera pans out. wobble wobble, goes to Tel'aran'rhiod. A familiar siluette just walks around a corner and disappears. Que credits.
It makes sense, that scene always sat funny with me! Really glad to have it confirmed by Brandon that the awesomely powerful female character didn't get dumbed down to prop up a dude to look more cool. As much as I love Perrin. Of course Mat called it, super WoT genius as he is. 💗 Also Lanfear Hamster OMG gave me a good laugh. You know if you want you can use my art Daniel 🤣 Though the hamster is epicly funny. As always, love your videos and your sense of humor. Hope this does get more people to read WoT.
It's definitely fun to take this sort of stuff and make up your own head cannon on what happens in the years to come after the series ends. There's a lot of surviving heroes who I'm sure go on to do many more legendary feats in their life. Personally, I'd love to imagine that Forsaken resurfacing in a century after rebuilding her power base to ultimately be confronted by the Queen of Malkier.
I love that Daniel as excited as I am about wheel of time. It just makes me more excited. I finished my 10th reread last year(audiobook) and now I just want to do it again.
Wow this is great, like you Daniel, I got bamboozled thinking "well there goes Lanfear". Brandon Sanderson is freaking legend though, that was great of him. WoT changed my life, I remember reading the eye of the world as a teenager in 1994 and it blew me away. After I started reading the books I tried to convert all my friends to the WoT books and to this day I recommend it to people all the time.
I loved this revelation. When I read her death I thought it was rushed and weak. I blamed it on them trying to get to the end. This makes the ending of the story so much better. I'm annoyed that I didn't come up with this as an option.
This actually completes her arc so much better. Her entire life it was her ambition for power that led to her greatest failures, her initial breakup with rand, freeing the dark one, screwing it up with rand again while also turning her back on the shadow alllll for power. Having her find salvation by accepting vanishing into obscurity is kinda perfect.
My theory... lanfear made herself cadsuane. That's why she was watching him at the end.. possibly lit his pipe too ;) and now she can take over the tower and still be the most powerful aes sedai
I know the reveal divided a lot of fans but I think its great. It's certainly something I never anticipated but I really think it fits thematically and the fact that Brandon was keeping this to himself for a decade is great. I can't wait to see what kind of nuggets like this we get in the cosmere decades from now
First time I tried, I couldn't finish book 1. Second time I tried I stopped at some point in 4 or start of 5. . . . I only own up to 6 so I guess I need to get a few more books before I try again.
@@hallaloth3112 I know it's a bit non-sequitor, but if you want something 100% free and the closest I've ever seen to being comparably amazing, try the Wandering Inn. The largest fault I can put on it is just that the 1st book starts pretty slow, but the series is one massive snowball in terms of quality and grand scope. If money's an object, free's a pretty good price.
As a Curious B who is probably never going to read the series I'm happy for all y'all lore fiends getting this delicious little snack. I love when things I'm passionate about get that so good for you guys.
So, if Daniel doesn't want Sanderson to write new WOT books, and he doesn't want someone else to write new WOT books, the only options left are to either resurrect or clone Jordan and force him to write more, or for Daniel himself to write them himself.. But personally, I'd be absolutely OK with Sanderson writing more, since he did a hell of a job finishing the series.
Brandon's still got ~25 more years of his own stories and universe to write. Taking another year or two to sideline another WoT book would be neat, but not what we need from him. There could potentially be other authors up to the task (Brent Weeks and James Islington come to mind) but Brandon did his time and he did it well.
@@robbybevard8034 Ooh, I haven't heard of these authors before, but this comment is a hell of a recommendation! I think I'll have to check them out, thanks...
The feel when I’m just now reading WoT and am blowing through the Dragon Reborn… only to realize I must still read 12 books to be able to watch this video 😭
I would have never read WoT if it wasnt for you Daniel. So glad I found your channel, you have truly, single handedly brought me back to the amazing world of reading
people say there is a slump somewhere in the middle of the series but for me the hardest to read was the first. It starts very LoTR and i'm just not a fan, add that it's always thought for me to get settled in a new world and book 1 was a bit of a chore. each passing book was better and better and the end is incredibly good, please give it another shot.
@@katlove8815 nice, can't say when it will click for you but i honestly can't see anyone for whom it wouldn't click at all. i had me interested all the way through but somewhere in book 3 is when i knew it was something special.
ça fait plaisir de te revoir parler de la Roue du Temps ! l'info est succulente et donne envie de relire toute la fin de la série pour vérifier tout ça soit même ! Ça tombe bien le dernier tome de la série est enfin disponible en Français depuis l'année dernier (avec seulement 10 ans de retard sur la sortie en anglais...)
At some point Perrin is going to figure it out. Nynaeve is going to find the compulsion sooner or later. It's just a matter of time. Opens it up for Mat and Perrin to have adventures chasing Lanfear and Moghedien...
I will say, any story that leaves you wanting more (in a good way), did its job well. Tied up big plot points while still leaving some open ended questions about the world and it's characters. A bad story will leave you disappointed. Either an unsavory ending, or too many questions that leave you confused. If I basically go through a mourning period after I finished a book, it did a good job.
But Moridin had Lanfear's cour'souvra on a necklace. And since Rand switched bodies with Moridin, Lanfear is still kind of screwed. Even if Lanfear's cour'souvra is lost, she's kind of screwed since if it shatters, she becomes a mindless puppet.
I imagine her just living in the dream world influencing others with slight touches over hundreds of years. Maybe we will get more of her when the TV series finishes up.
That series is definitely going to be c cancelled before then. Firstly because it's rare a series would run the 10+ season they would need, and secondly because they have made it awful
Do yourself a favor and buckle down and finish the series. I tiptoed around spoilers for years, its worth it to finish and be able to engage in discussions. The WOT subreddit is really good for marking for spoilers so you can somewhat read threads and ask questions but sometimes people misremember and post spoilers
As another Wheel of Time fan, who also found your channel through related videos, I agree that this is a very nostalgic bit of media. For me, I so want more novels. I understand that reluctance, and I appreciate where it comes from, but I think that there is still too much which can be said within this world, And I want to read it.
While Lanfear's final shenanigans felt a little out of character for a master manipulator accustomed to operating in the shadows for hundreds (if not thousands) of years, my reading at the time was that it actually was somewhat in keeping with the side of Lanfear we saw in Fires of Heaven. She absolutely wigged out when Kadere told her Rand had slept with Aviendha at the end of the book, intending to abduct or kill Al'Thor there and then. It is, by far, the most extreme action we see her take. By the time we get to AMoL Rand has rejected Lanfear outright, in a manner that was also an exceptional blow to her ego and sense of self. She's also been tortured near continuously by Moridin, which is unlikely to be good for anyone's state of mind. Time is also not on her side; the Last Battle is here, and it's now. Her scheme with Perrin therefore feels in keeping with her actions in FoH: rushed, extreme, directed pointedly at Rand, and arrogantly assuming that there is no physical risk to herself. In letting her obsession with Lews Therin get the best of her, and underestimating her adversaries (or being overconfident) and thus putting herself at risk, the circumstances of her death were pretty apt to me. A little anticlimatic perhaps, but that was also true of Fain and other antagonists throughout the series. Thank goodness I'm not a beta reader I guess :D
I think you're taking her actions at the docks in the complete wrong context. She had 0 control over herself at the docks. The pattern had locked in the confrontation at the docks before Rand even left Tear. See: the wise ones dreams regarding Moiraine and Rhuidean, Moiraine's ring experience in Rhuidean, Mat being dragged back and forth in battle until he got the news of Morgase at the right time to trigger Moiraine's ring vision at the same time that Lanfear was there. The pattern knew Lanfear's plan was working, and her success at challenging the Dark One and Creator would threaten the pattern itself, so it set up a mini battle of champions with Moiraine that was forced for both sides. And even then Lanfear still had chances to win, although not at the pattern destroying level that she was aiming for (The rings show visions of possible futures, and Moiraine saw futures after the docks where Lanfear controlled Rand, and ones where she killed him. But all of Moiraine's possible futures included the docks). Lanfear ran circles around everyone in TGH-TFoH. She just couldn't challenge the pattern itself successfully.
@@SuperfluousMan-qs8rv I disagree entirely. I don't think of the Pattern is an active, conscious participant in the way that you seem to, and I think that to do so would eliminate any semblance of agency/free will from the world of the Wheel. To me, the Pattern is 'what was and what is', woven by the Wheel in the Present; ahead of that point there are only a loose collection of threads from which events can be inferred but not assumed. It is, essentially, a representation of the classic Arrow of Time concept which has no will or agency of its own. Prophecy in WoT, when not presented as occurrences open to wide interpretation, is a statement of 'what needs to happen' for continual smooth running of the Pattern through the Wheel in that reality. But each actor on the stage is still free to choose as their motivations dictate. Dreamwalkers appear to be able to 'see' probable rather than absolute events, and in my view the rings first assume that an event will happen and then play out from that point. Only Foretelling and Min's Visions appear absolute in the WoT, and the vast majority of those are almost allegorical or open to multiple interpretations (as Min herself admits). Thus, Lanfear's actions were her own in the context of surrounding events, reflective of her personality. To assume otherwise is to ascribe the same lack of agency to every other character and event in the series (greatly cheapening it IMO).
I watched this reveal when it was live-streamed and was really blown away. I also felt that her ending made no real sense but just chalked it up to another writer taking over the property of another. But thinking back on it now after I've re-read Memory of Light a couple more times, I see it better as I'm also more familiar with Brandon's other works as WoT helped introduce me to him more. I honestly felt that there should have been more main character deaths, maybe one of the main three, I didn't like how they constantly did fake-outs on deaths which kind of lost their real weight in my opinion, but WoT is still my favorite fantasy book series, second to Joe Abercrombie series, and how Stormlight is shaping up.
So Perrin, who shrugs off balefire as 'just weaves,' can only break out of compulsion if Lanfear lets him believe he's broken out of compulsion...thanks for clearing that up Sanderson...
Thank you Daniel for how well you have discussed this topic in the Wheel of Time. I'm currently getting ready to read the 3rd book, and I love light spoilers. You were able to make me feel like I have 'insider knowledge' while at the same time not completely spoiling the entire series. Thank you.
I finally finished listening to the audio books a couple days ago. The ending was great, but I just want MORE. There's so much of the WoT world that I wish we got to explore more.
Now the question is: does Lanfear think that Rand is alive? Brandon said she's the 2md most powerful person, and she knows it, but if she thinks Rand is dead, she thinks she's the most powerful person around and that could cause some issues for everyone around her
@@Selfamused SPOILER Rand no longer has access to Saidin. He has... something else. What exactly that is, is unclear, intentionally so. We just saw him light a pipe with it. It's possible he has direct access to the pattern now, powers comparable to what the Dark One had. No one knows since Jordan never told anyone, and even Sanderson can only speculate..
I just want a book about the 4th era so bad. I want to know about everyone after the last Battle. The Girls finding Rand, Perrin leading two rivers, mat surviving tuon somehow, cadsuane as an amyrlin and logain leading the black tower. I also don't want a new book, but fuck, you still got out there the most powerfull ta'veren that ever existed, husband of 3 really important women, I'm pretty sure even his farm Life would be pretty much hype. Oh, and I need a reunion with Tam. Fuck.
Dude. Your videos are just ear candy. Your writing is so great and your delivery is, ugh, so fucking good. keep on keeping on dude. imma watch it again now.
Brandon's still got ~25 more years of his own stories and universe to write. Taking another year or two to sideline another WoT book would be neat, but not what we need from him. There could potentially be other authors up to the task (Brent Weeks and James Islington come to mind) but Brandon did his time.
@@robbybevard8034 IMO WoT is done and should stay that way. I see adding entries on any series as a series of escalating bets, if one doesn't pay off you lost the whole thing. we are 15 in... i say we take the winnings home. Also agree on Sanderson doing something else. need more stormlight, but honestly I will read anything he puts out at this point.
@@nucphyschem1 If another book was published I would read it no question, but I have 2 arguments against it. the first I mentioned, too much risk of ruining the series. The second is that I think that if everything is shown it will lose a bit of it's magic. a big part of WoT is facts becoming history, history becoming legend and legend being so old that is just a fuzzy myth. If everything is crystal clear you lose a lot of that sense of wonder.
@@damp2269 I understand what you are saying that's why I'm saying you don't write the book in relation to the main series but expand the universe ie the war of power and about the hall of servants and such. The research on traveling etc would super interesting. Nothing to do with the mainline series
I think a good compromise for more wheel of time isn't another book, but a collection of short stories about new events and inventions in the world and the rumors about Rand and Lanfear who are still roaming about.
She was always my favorite. She's so chaotic I couldn't really predict what she'd do. All the others, except maybe Asmodean, were so predictable. They were evil and self absorbed and would always act through that. She seemed to have a different type of motivation. She even helped Rand at least once or twice. I never thought she would ever turn good but she just seemed to create a sense of chaos all the time.
"Total victory for the light" Daniel you sweet summer child... Have you forgotten there can be no light without darkness ☯️ There are no beginnings or endings to the wheel. My God it's just poetry if she survives. Idea: Lanfear tries to influence Rands children or something
Keep shouting for more Wheel of time books! There is such a good plot scaffold for a prequel trilogy covering the 3 Illian-Tear border wars following Tam, and Andor's third succession war after Tigraine and Luc go to the wastes, concluding with the Aiel war final battle. And a future book exploring how the 4th age changed things. Not just Lanfear, I can't imagine how powerful Elayne and Aviendha become with their combined talents to understand and make Terangreal with the kin and the black tower all in their queendom.
I would absolutely love to watch this but I’m only on book 2. But I will be back eventually. In the mean time I would like to thank you for turning me toward this series 2 years ago!!
Daniel, I started reading (or rather listening to the audiobooks) the Wheel of Time while I'm at work. I listen to like a good 5-7 hours each day and I've already finished the first two books and I'm about a third of the way through The Dragon Reborn. I'm so intrigued by the series. I can't watch this video because I just started reading it last month XD
Dude! When you said 10 years my jaw hit the floor. I didn't realize it had been this long. I can chat my life in that 10 years. I remember where I was as I started the series. I literally wrapped up my first read through in time for memory of lights release. It doesn't feel like 10 years.
Finally finished the series after eight years just this afternoon. Absolutely exquisite ending. It was like saying goodbye to an old friend, and it is satisfying, but also sort of sad knowing that nothing will ever replace this. It will exist in its own shelf in my soul for the rest of my life. Significant changes have happened in my life since starting the series, and I feel like my life would not be the same without it. I love the Amazon Prime series, however, and it's actually in canon, as an alternative world spun by the Wheel.
I read the Wheel of Time from my teens into my 30's so when Sanderson took over, his writing was so good that I've now read everything Brandon Sanderson has written.
Thanks for pointing out Lanfear's survival. Escaped me entirely. So rhe seeds are present for the next turn of the wheel and chaos once again descending
Wow, when I read that section I honestly chalked it up to "well the series is ending and I gotta tie up some loose ends, so bye Lanfear!" I never thought she conned him (and the audience) like that. Awesome!