No bracing, cabinet resonance, I mean, scientifically and logically, I do believe his measurments, no obligatory A/B test here. But yeah, could be a good idea though. Take a good flat RME Babyface and 2 Earthworks M32r's and then do proper recording, i'd be in.
Agree. Hobbs, Ron, you know there are a crap ton of these out “there” in the wild. With sound clips added and a few people doing the upgrade kit and (assumingely) signing it’s praises, this “kit” could become the default for this line. Now all of the sets that shipped abroad WITH their existing sound warts, well, those will be what they are, but dang fellas, getting some WOM (word of mouth) energy behind this kit could really do some wonders in gaining exposure to a whole world of folks who either didn’t have much if any awareness of GR and/or the right improvements to THIS kit may help open their eyes to all of the other offerings you guys have. “Just sayin’ “
Please, keep doing pre 2000 stuff. Speakers from the 1990's, 1980's, and even the 1970's were awesome!! I used to drool over them, when I went into a Good Guys or Circuit city back in the day. Service merchandise & BEST products had a dedicated speaker room, which was awesome to visit!!! I miss those day!!!
Another great video sir. Using the midrange as a fill is so often rewarding as you have proven. These presentations are so informative and, for lifetime audio nuts like me, downright exciting. I've been experimenting over 60 years, but without your expertise, and I may have to get back into it after learning so much from you. Many thanks for all your hard work.
Thank you for picking this speaker and making the video! Everyone seems to love these old HPM-100s so seeing what they put out originally is really interesting! What you have done to them is amazing and I would love to hear the final product! I have a pair of HPM-900s with the graphite drivers that I would love to have reworked by you.
What a treat it is having Danny do this service for us. To actually pay someone for there time to do this would be quite expensive I’m sure. I’m in Canada so sending a speaker is not cheap however I did send my crossovers to Danny to throw together a kit of higher quality parts equal value for my CerwinVega! Speakers and the process and results were allot of fun. I highly recommend if able to, to take advantage of this service from GR Reserch and send him your speaker. It’s a fun hobby upgrading! Thanks GR Team!
A typical 1970 Japanese big box speaker with lots of drivers they never sounded that good but looked impressive what Richie did is amazing and well worth spending the upgrade on another fantastic job !
These old speakers have a lot of potential but we must invest a good deal of time and money to make them sound as they should! Thanks for all that engineering knowledge you provide!
Hello. This was a good video. I really like the videos you make where you shed light on a big and common problem when it comes to factory made speakers. I'm talking about the quality of them which is often not that good
Awesome Transformation! We always put our Speakers up on Cement Blocks with thick Rubber mats and a Towel - Not like Today's Stands but really helped back in the day , when we were under the "effects" LOL
Hey Danny, great video and nice to see you measure these. They sound as they look. I'm curious for all the people asking for A/B's, perhaps prior to redesigning the crossover you could record a short 30 second segment using some royalty free music, and after the redesign is finished record the end result. Changes like this are so huge that even a cell phone recording would resolve the differences. Cheers!
i remember having 4 of these driven off a kenwood 9600 receiver at age 18 and thinking this is the best sound i've ever heard! i'm double that now and don't think i could stand them stock for long, learning is fun
As a kid, I would go over to my buddy's house and listen to jazz on his HPM-40s. It was a fun speaker, but it didn't image well, and certainly changed a lot when going off-axis. For people who have fond memories of the unique sound of these speakers, and want them to be more like an audiophile speaker, this is the ideal upgrade.
My first set of speakers were Pioneer HPM-40's, the baby brother to these ones. A guy in my dorm had the 100's. I lusted after them, but couldn't afford them. I replaced my 40's many years later with Klipsch Heresy II's. That was a mistake. You did a great job transforming these. If they were mine, i would have even built a new box for them, lining the drivers up properly and mounting them flush, but i understand that's outside the scope of what you do here.
Well, a flat response doesn't necessarily tell the story of how the speaker sounds...it is balanced for sure. But that doesn't mean it will sound better than a new
Better than a new Klipsch? Do u mean before the upgrade? LOL. You’re setting the bar rather low, don’t u think? But truly one of his greatest achievements to date..
Great Danny and Hobbs. So great that Americans dare to send their loved vintage speakers to GR, for a new life, to the next generation. Recycling. But we get to enjoy them for a bit, again. Just imagine how many 70-80 ish speakers there are out there.
I just ordered the kit, great work was just in the process of fixing my just bought hpm 100 set. I owned them in the late 80ties and sold them in the 90ties. Got them back but new about the filter problems. Was concidering the mv labs filter but you had some better thinking and experience on it. Cant wait to start building the filters. Also got my hands on hpm900 backplates to keep the org filters original. Will also do the bracing of the box. Will come back with the results.
@@veegoss1 yes i got the whole set from danny i also reinforced the inside acording to his advice. The hpm now sound much better the ringing is gone they stage perfectly you can listen the whole day to them with my high end dac and my vintage recordplayer setup. They also have depth now and as danny says they really can compete with modern speakers but with paper cone vintage vibe. Its really a great great upgrade one of the best. Also bass is much tighter than ever heard on a hpm. The original coils are way to thin. Will try to add some pictures dont now if that is possible else send me a pm.
I love that you are tackling these old speakers! Love love it. Vintage JBL's? I particularly would love to see you do the L-222 Disco or L-220. I have a pair and not that far from you. Maybe we can plan a drop off/visit.
you did a fabulous job. before/after i know for a fact that a lot of these used (without upgrades) ended up in Vietnam. Because people posted video on YT.
Very cool. Working with vintage mass market speakers myself, I can definitely appreciate what you did in this project/kit and the $800 plus some work to get those to another level without cabinet mods or changing drivers is amazing. Personally I like the sound of the phenolic ring cone tweeters. Very smooth and big enough to effortlessly deliver the treble. I was kind of surprised how poor the Woofer response was. I wonder if they're just worn out or materials degraded with age. The stock Woofers I've pulled from old mass market speakers usually have better frequency responses than the aftermarkets I replace them with. But... the majority of them I've pulled were from speakers that seemed hardly used and despite some cabinets being a little rough, the drivers are usually quite nice. The majority of wire I've pulled seemed really thin, like maybe 20 to 24 gauge and the caps, (and coils if they have any), are usually super tiny, so it looks like those crossovers were very nice for old speakers and if the wire was 18 gauge that's impressive. Plus, if I heard correctly these had insulation on the side panels which is a rare thing, usually there's either not insulation, or a small sheet on the back, or small fiberglass pads tossed in. You didn't mention how thick the cabinet was, but most of them are 1/2", so if that was thicker, that's a big deal too. It's nice to see you having fun with the big old speakers. I love em. They sound... well... BIG 😊
I've watched enough of these videos that I can predict some of the off axis response based on the speaker location and cross over points. Soon as I saw it I thought "wow, the worse off axis response I have seen". Anyone, a fun video and an amazing transformation.
Very surprising for me that a correction that good is possible on this big speaker. I thought there would be not much to do about the off-axis response. Good job.
Well done. Have been fooling with speakers since this was a new product. Worked at GRT/Chess/Janus Records and had access to their studio monitors (KLH). Learned from their engineers and been rebuilding the odd speaker pair ever since. This run down was what we all needed back in the day 😊 OBTW - Soviet radar caps make good audio caps, when you can find them ... 🙃
I know a bit of the history of these HPMs and own almost all the versions that were produced. The 100s were designed to sit very high, well above ear level and I learned this at the time they were new, speaking to Pioneer Australia. They installed 4 sets of these in a record shop, with a ton of their amps, etc and I remember the guys telling me that there were designed to sit very high up, not at ear level. Just putting it out there. Id love to see a set of HPM 150s looked at ot the HPM1100s and even the 100s predecessor, the HPM900. I have them and more, if you would like to come to Australia 😂 Great video and as usual, great info. Thanks
We did have someone call us asking about the HPM150s but I don't know if they'll be willing to send one for evaluation. But if we get sent one, well definitely take a look at it.
I never had HPM 100’s but in the 80’s I had set of HPM 900’s. Good speakers overall. I really wanted the HPM 1100 but couldn’t afford them back then lol.
Great testing impression Danny,I always had a soft spot for big box speakers from the 70's, though I would never buy one today. I am thisclose to buying a pair of classic Legacys, because the price is outstanding and its a boyhood dream. I really wanna get them tested, but I shudder at the shipping costs, lol. Maybe If I drive to texas one day, who knows.
Heck ya! Now I won't turn my eyes if I ever see a set at a garage sale :) PRoviding I can get some at a great price, i'd be happy to purchase this xover upgrade.
I got a pair for $60 a few months ago on marketplace. Did some work on the cabinets and fixed the pushed in center caps with a vac cleaner. Listed them on FB for $950 and they sold the same day.
Yesterday I saw a youtube video comparing this HPM-100 to the JBL L-112, I had the L-112 and repaired the HPM and I must say there are a lot of HPM-100 lovers but this speaker I assure that is the most colored beloved speaker ever, now in your video I understand why it is so colored stock condition, you did an amazing job with the new design crossover, now looks more like the L-112 which only have the caveat of a ringing about 1.8 khz, I will appreciate if you test a good stock condition JBL L-112 to confirm my appreciation, thanks buddy
Totally agree about upgrading these vintage speakers, even rebuilding them ( most were made with chip ( particle) board yuks ) Unfortunately its the then sound of the models that people get attached to. Upgrade them like the HPM-100 but you will lose the sound that they think is great. No doubt the sound will change for the better but I love the sound the way it is !!! that's what your up against. Hopefully after this video, more people with vintage speakers eg: JBL's will make the jump.
I know it's a lot to make a video and further a lot of time to do the testing and documentation you do. It sure would be great to get still images of the upgrade parts you used (un-assembled and all in 1 photo is fine), then another still image or 2 of the process of upgrading these speakers. Basically just to see what you ended up with as a reference for those of us that decide to follow your upgrade path. In any case, thanks much for the vids! :)
Greatest transformation of an iconic and popular speaker that I always considered unlistenable. Now they look and sound great... like they should have when they were made but didn't.
I watched a couple of these videos now, I would really like to see you do the actual upgrades. Make the new crossovers, make the alterations to the cabinet, etc
This looks like a very interesting rebuild project, I bet their is HUGE room for improvement. If you can find some decent replacement parts and a better cabinet, or maybe a better resonant frequency and more internal bracing and better damping this thing could be a beast! Of course you would probably then have a whole new speaker!
I got a pair of the 100w version a year ago, and messed around with the crossovers a bit and replacing with new polyprop caps. Until any further serious crossover overhaul, I found they greatly improved just by changing the woofer lowpass inductor from 0.6 to 0.9mH
It’s interesting to see how this responded with these old school drivers when you compare it to the ones you had recently that were virtually not worth the effort and you almost scrapped them. Good job on these.
@@morlidor no, they did not listen with their ears, they listened to the "high end" stuff from the brands like Pioneer, JBL and Yamaha, that's why these fossils were "good". They "listened" to prestige...
...and to think that the HPM100 was one of Pioneer's "greatest". Well, the visual design was great at least! Your service to the audio community is very much appreciated.
I watch several channels doing these speakers analysis and all of you use different equipment and come up with virtual identical responses but yours is easiest to understand speaking and charts diagrams
I owned two sets in the day, one set was the clear acrylic cabinets. I hung the wood set high up in a room with 12 ft ceilings. I replaced the mid range driver and that got rid of a lot of the harshness.
This is my first time watching your channel. It was very interesting to hear your take on those older speakers. I think it's pretty obvious the older speakers just don't have the build quality and modern performance features. This technology has come a long way, I think the older speakers have the "Vintage Sound," which in today's speak is not great.
Picked up a pair of these at the flea market in near mint condition just this past weekend. I have to say, I am highly impressed. I've had dozens and dozens of different speakers over the years, and these definitely rate near the top. Not as good as my MB quart floor standers, but impressive nonetheless. Mostly rock and roll speakers, but that's okay.
Still owner of one pair of Pioneer HPM-60 speakerboxes from mid '70s. Changed the original woofers for Visaton equivalent two decades ago (due standard foam problem Pioneer woofers). Still loved them but due my age frequency's above 8 KHz i can't hear anymore. Recently bought 2nd hand Pioneer TA-7500 & TX-7500 and the Pioneer headphone the SE 305. Going back to vintage stuff.
I've got a pair of hpm 100s got the hpm40s as well. My experience with them is very good. Solid low end, Lotta detail and clarity, having a hard time believing all your negativity.
Great work! That’s a huge transformation. Why they never bothered looking into crossover design back in the days. It’s just engineering. Same tech as in the 70-ties caps, coils and resistors…
There was no computer FFT measurement then. Some spl/pen plotter measurements could be done. Also, there wasn’t a real understanding of what mattered for sound quality and the importance off-axis/polar response
@@cbrunhaver It was worse in the 50s..Quad Electrostatics... Without a box and no crossover were poor.. All those fools who think those speakers r classics... Danny wud have bettered those 50s DESIGNS By a mile.. To use an academic comparison... Modern poets r far better than Shelley and Shakespeare types LOL
I remember back in my early teens never liking any speaker made by Pioneer. My dream AR9's were way out of my range. I grew up mostly on JBL through the late 70's-80's. People seem to love these vintage speakers. And not just for nostalgic reasons.
that was something! Way back when......Pioneer brought this model out as a copy to the very, very hot selling JBL L-100A back in the day. Hence the copy on driver positioning, woofer cone material and color, and midrange, tweeter driver appearances. Even the port was placed in a similar position as the L-100. Pioneer also made a larger model...believe it was the HMP-200 or 250... don't remember, but it was a larger box with a quartz tweeter in the top.
I was gonna say almost word for word what you said about the response! That is completely awful. I've been pouring over response graphs for the last couple months looking for new muds for vehicle so seeing this was almost a shock! 😂
Just found this channel and loved what I saw and subscribed. I'm into vintage. I looked through the list of videos, and I'll look more, but has he done a similar post on either JBL 4311 Control Monitors or ADS L810 speakers?
I've never been a fan. I tried... twice in fact to give them a chance but in the end, no depth, no subtlety, no sound stage and they shriek and fatigue when the music gets busy. The HPM 100 is basically a two way speaker with three overlapping tweeters. And tweeters all interfere with each other resulting in a terrible lobiness and off axis frequency response. The midrange driver with it's single 4 mf cap as high pass filter actually cuts in a frequency typical of a tweeter. Most of the midrange is produced by the 12 inch woofer. Worst of all it's hard to cure the gobs of stored energy (and resulting peaks and ringing) in the upper mid and treble ranges. But they're, bright, go loud and have lots of bass so your average rocker will love them.
Years ago, for sentimental reasons I bought a speaker system that wowed me in the 1970s as a teenager...the Meridian M2 active speakers with the matching 101 preamp. BUT...when i got them, they sounded extremely colored with a huge subjective mid-range suckout. So i took them over to a speaker designer I knew, and he measured then- both speakers measured near identical, wuth big suckouts- so if there were age related failures- they were also identical. Of course they had built in electronic active crossovers and power amps. They did sound better when i replaced the 101 preamp with something 50x the cost- but the colorations were still unacceptable. I sold them for a slight loss and realized that classic 70s speakers did not age very well- unlike same era amplifiers. BTW I now use a modded 70s preamp with modern class A tube power amp and speakers, and after mods the preamp is comparible to $5k+ contemporary preamps
