The Book Club: The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne with Julie Hartman | The Book Club 

First off, she's wrong about a lot. She's making study of literature way too political. Secondly, people still carry their shame today but they express it in different ways. They still carry it with them everywhere just like Hester's "A". We don't live in a "shameless" culture. People just have different ways of funneling their shame. To boil the "Scarlet Letter" down to ideology would be a travesty-it's much more than that. It is a study in human nature, consequence, and sin that is ubiquitous in human nature throughout time. It's not about "is it better if they had never sinned at all?" That's not the point---the point is that they did, as we often do (all of us except Mary) and as a result--our lives are a make-up of how we DEAL with that sin. What we make of it, what we become, if you will. That is the point. The argument in regards to politics, finger-wagging, witch-craft and the blame on the child etc is besides the point and unnecessary in fact it's arguing for the very thing the book is speaking against. Pearl is not a devil-child, she is the consequence of sin but as a child is stainless and pure. Her discomfort is used as an analogy for her father's sin. Again the conservative mentality of finger-wagging is useless and the moral relativism of liberalism is ALSO and EQUALLY useless. Neither get to the crux or point of the problem--which is spiritual in nature and up to the created (us as an individual) and Creator, Christ himself. The point of us as readers is to understand that our spirituality, our relation to sin, is not only relative to our community but our relationship to Christ alone (as Christians). It is our duty to hold these conversations in the privacy of our hearts (as Pearl does in her pure way). Society can only take us so far..

How timely: we are studying this book now in our Homeschool.

I read The Scarlet Letter in high school in the 11th grade. I did my term theme on the book because it was my English teacher's favorite. (Little bit of blatant suckupery.) My thesis was the effects of sin in the Scarlet Letter focusing on Hester, Dimsdale, Chillingworth, and Pearl. By the way, Hester wasn't refusing to name Dimsdale as her lover because she wanted him to be able to continue doing his work. The Puritans of Boston during the period of the book were living in a theocracy. The crime of adultery could be punished by death. She was trying to save his life because, right or not, she loved him.

A bit let down that Knowles didn't say that his ancestors were part of the Salem Witch Trials, not that he played a judge in 9th grade. C'mon Knowles, confess!

I think our society has such a little understanding of the puritan culture. The minister and Hester did not set out to commit adultery. Hester loved going to bible study. There was a love that developed from that they did not expect. Young ministers are well advised to recognize the temptations. The sin of Hester was obvious because of Pearl. The minister needed to confess to rid his soul of carrying his sin, but he feared losing his position. But it was not just the standing of the minster before the people that was the most important. It was his standing before God. They had an opportunity to run off, just the three of them, but they could not run away from the Almighty. He needed to confess in order to be free and to be forgiven. Yes, the minister finally had a happy ending. He had such joy in unburdening himself. Even Chillingsworth was given some grace because he could not longer hate the minister. The power of the secret was broken. Confession and forgiveness is key. We are none of us perfect. Trying to portray ourselves as perfect is what causes our pain. Thank you for discussing this book.

More modern women need to read this novel. They would certainly gain more self respect.

I never read the book, but I love hearing smart people talk. Thanks Michael and Julie.

I haven’t read the book yet, but I do think the puritans tend to get badly mischaracterized in modern society as these dour, joyless, fun hating people. That is simply not true.

Strange that my pre-podcast comment is gone now. 🤔. Anyway, I'm currently reading The Scarlet Letter! My youngest child had to read it for her high school homeschool program, and I had enjoyed it in high school myself, so I'm reading it again. Love this commentary, especially on how all the characters react to sin! Demographic info: I went to a Catholic high school, and my daughter is in Seton Catholic Home Study since COVID.

“A change of character, not a change of air, is what you need.” Seneca, 65 AD (pub), Letters from a Stoic, Letter XXVIII

“…whatever your destination you will be followed by your failings.” Seneca, 65 AD, Letter XXVII

First, with an actual comment: This was required reading in high school. I was enamored with it. Then they came out with the Hallmark (?) special and it was lovingly done. Very gripping mystery/psychology tale of forbidden love, vengeance, and despair. Should be a good podcast.

Reading this in AP English, need this video ASAP!!!

This was one of the books I enjoyed reading in high school and I revisited it many years later after having moved to Massachusetts. One thing to keep in mind is that the story of Hester is actually nestled inside a framing device, which was someone "finding" this story amongst the bric-a-brack inside the Customs House over at Salem. In that sense, it is the 19th century looking back on the 17th century. The prose is much more 19th than 17th (see The Witch as an example of what the 17th century mindset was) and thus this is someone with his own beliefs and takes on things looking at the Puritan mindset, which was this stark and minimalist take of the Gospels. I actually think that Hawthorne has more issues with the Puritans than he does with the Gospels. (Honestly, I do as well as their theology is terrible.) I have been pondering for years how to do a film adaptation of the book. My approach would be something akin to a Christopher Nolan film where it would be interweaving of three different threads. The main thread is a Salem State University student who is studying English and working on writing. She wants to do a "modern Scarlet Letter" and her advisor is demanding better out of her writing. You see the results of her efforts as the second one. The third one reflects her advisor's suggestion to do research into its context and it's the story of John Hathorne.

I think this was a very good discussion of the book. I read it sometime ago in high school and haven't really given it another thought. I agree with Andy as she mentioned that schools focus more on it being a feminist piece and they focus so much on the symbolism. I will have to read it again. It's amazing that we read so many "good" classical literature at a time in our lives where we don't fully understand (or appreciate) what makes it so good or a classic that everyone should read.

They should do Catcher In The Rye.

“How can you wonder your travels do you no good, when you carry yourself around with you? You are saddled with the very thing that drove you away.” Seneca, (Quoting Socrates), 65 AD, Letter XXVIII

“Where you arrive does not matter so much as what sort of person you are when you arrive there.” Seneca, 65 AD, Letter XXVIII

I had to read this book *three times* -- 6th, 8th, and 12th grades. Never again. Hated it every time. Worst part was an entire chapter dedicated to describing an opulent house. Zzzzzzz....

“As it is, instead of travelling you are rambling and drifting, exchanging one place for another when the thing you are looking for, the good life, is available everywhere.” Seneca, 65 AD, Letter XXVIII

Enjoy the new classic: “Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Amazing!

PRAGERU!!!!!

Never read it, till Adulthood.

There’s nothing feminist about this book. It is about sin and repentance.

Please cover the Lord of the Rings/Hobbit with Dr. Peter Kreeft

That's funny. You guys talk about the Puritans the same way the liberals talk about the folks at Prager U.

That women still get treated badly

My favorite part of the book was the preface. Wish you had mentioned it. Marvelous prose about Hawthorne's day.

I never read it but I grew up in California 4:58

Yes-it is about sin, but also redemption. Dimmesdale ultimately confesses and repents. Though he dies, his comments show his burden is lifted. Dimmesdale's penance did not absolve him, neither did Prynne's good works-Hawthorne tells us the letter had not done its office. I think this is a deeply Christian novel. Hawthorne shows the inability for man to save himself, that confession and repentance brings salvation. I don't think Prynne finds redemption but rather embodies a Romantic worldview-she seeks redemption everywhere else besides true repentance.

I love the book club. Used to ignore it but now I try to listen to the entirety of every one. Thank you both!

I just stumbled across this channel and am thrilled! Thank you, thank you!

In my AP Lit class, we were assigned to write an essay about our analysis of the book. I wrote mine on Christianity, how sin itself is portrayed in the book, how Pearl represents self-consciousness, and how the devil seduced these people. I got a C- because my analysis was too out there. But, my friend who wrote about the feminist representation of Hester got an A...

I love listening to these discussions and i probably shouldve expected that i would disagree with a lot that would be said bc i love the puritans and i think they truly did boil everything down to scripture alone. But i just find it so funny that Michael, and just about every christian that doesn't agree with the purutans, would say they don't agree with what they taught but talks justtttt like them at the same time 😅 I love this channel and all that the daily wire does but i definitely would disagree on some of their theological stances haha

Julie Hartman makes a brilliant observation when she points out the parallels of Wokism and Puritanism.

For the next book club you should have Dr. Jordan Peterson on to talk about the Gulag Archipelago

Sin isbsin if there is the Law of the Creator. Atheists do not understand sin they only feel its consequences.

1st, 18 September 2023

Thank you for this great discussion! I hated this book in high school and I still hate it now years later. So disappointed that this is held up as representative of American literature.

Do David Copperfield at some point I beg of you

Nathaniel Hawthorne is an overrated bore of an author. While the concept of "The Scarlett Letter" is wonder idea Hawthorne's execution of it is tranquillizing. Want to knock out a herd of elephants? Just read them a paragraph from any Hawthorn work and off to lala land they go in mere moments. The only person I can envision read his work is an insomniac after downing a bottle of Vivarin with a gallon of coffee and jacked up on meth. If their heart doesn't explode from that, I still only see them making it half way through one of his sleep-inducing stories. His work is pure trash heralded as miraculous. If you disagree, that is your opinion. Mine is you are wrong.