One thing to note from what we have gotten from the trailers, it looks like echoes have a time limit but it's most noticeable on the summoned enemies. But I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to have the limit on everything, just different times for the Echo's cost. That also gives me the feeling that there is a distance limit too before echoes despawn.
Sorry ZM, but I have to be on Team Zeltik for the LA blur. It didn’t ruin my experience at all, and I actually did enjoy it. But overall, thank you guys so much for spreading the positivity of this game. I don’t like how the series is turning in a hate community for overdramatical reasons, and it’s so refreshing to visit your channels as well as this one, and hear good things about the series.
@@Werewolf914 In an Echoes of Wisdom video I made, someone commented how they never wanted to play as Zelda, and that this game wasn’t worth it because you don’t play as Link.
In the Japanese trailer (or another foreign language, I forget), for the guy up the wall, instead of just help me he's actually saying "Link, is that you?" She's wearing his cloak so I get it
12:56 One thing I appreciated about TotK's sidequests is that even the secondary towns had strong sequences of quests, instead of just Tarrey Town (also I love Tarrey Town's sidequest in TotK, maybe even more that BotW). But now Hateno has the election quests and Kakariko has the ruins quests, and it helps the world feel a little more whole.
So far, everything about Echoes looks great. I think a lot of the fears and worries are, for the most part, not that concerning to me. As with everything, I'm going into the game looking to enjoy it. (Also, as to the blur around the edges, I barely noticed unless I actually focused on it. It's no problem for me.)
37:46 - worth noting, we don’t know how far into the game Zelda will get her various abilities; no reason to assume she’ll get them pretty much out of the gate like Link did in BotW and TotK rather than as the game progresses similar to dungeon items in the traditional games.
Thoughts: 1.) Zelda might have other abilities or items to use. The Trirod is mapped to D Right which could mean there might be other items to switch to on the D pad. 2.) It would be cool to have a female villain. 3.) I don’t mind the little blur effect.
In A Link Between Worlds, if im not wrong, the dude with the goron symbol is Rosso, the guy who gives Link the power glove so he can lift rocks. But that is the only reference to the goron people in ALBW. Also, Eldin Volcano reminds me more of the Eldin province in Skyward Sword then Botw or TotK. Maybe this game has locations which are mashups of various Zelda titles than just Botw and TotK? Similar to how Botw had map locations named after characters in previous entries such as Saria forest and Mido swamp in the Lost Woods in that game.
For dungeons, I think hiw it could work is that you get a specific echo with a certain ability that helps with the puzzles in the dungeon. For example, a graveyard dungeon where you get the redead echo from a redead miniboss that you then use the redeads scream for certain puzzles
See I don’t think Zelda will need lots of healing and so on because she’s not really fighting. I know we will be using magic, binding etc, to fight, but she wouldn’t need the same effects from meals like link would imo. It did show her getting overheated so I guess we would use a smoothie for that, possibly? Great discussion I’m very excited and so curious about how the puzzles are going to play out. I want harder puzzles than what was in botw n TotK also.
Yeah it definitely seems logical for smoothies to help with cold, heat, maybe lightning resistance, maybe some sort of stealth, etc. obviously you're going to want to restore hearts though so that will be part of it. I can also imagine it being used as a sort of currency where you give a smoothie to a character who wants a drink so they can give you the thing they have that you need.
I believe Echoes to be down the line after ALTTP and ALBW in the timeline because of the town people moving their village. I'm guessing the people moved to be closer to the Gorons who moved to the volcano. - I speculated that Hebra and Eldin volcano could switch places because of tears of the kingdom. In the BoTW series most mounts are snow covered, but the depths in ToTK show lava flow under other mountains besides Eldin. This means other mountains on the map could activate creating a new volcano. Perhaps it is the Hyrule people's tradition to always call the single active volcano "death mountain" no matter where it is. Hebra could be the people's tradition again to always label the heavily snow covered possibly inactive volcano area. That is how both Hebra and Eldin can change places on the map.
I think this artstyle fits perfectly because how whimsical and cute Echoes of Wisdom seems to be. Also, Ganon is not only a warrior but also a cunning warlock. That would actually still fit as Zelda's enemy. Though Vaati would also fit as an enemy to Zelda since he is a windmage and also pretty smart.
I think you're spot on with the primary protagonist being either Hilda or some princess-looking character (or, perhaps the protagonist takes an echo of Zelda that is then used to cause chaos). It would explain the Wanted posters and Zelda getting thrown in jail/needing to be hidden. Sort of similar to Mario Sunshine's story or TOTK.
New idea for a section/segment of the podcast. Every episode, you guys both place one of the games in the timeline in a tier list and give your reasons as to why. At the end, you’ll have many episodes done and an entire tier list of every game. Just an interesting thought I had
I always thought of the 2d/3d as the 2 dimensions of left/right - up/down, and 3d adds the Z dimension of being able to look up and around, but I have never heard of anyone else thinking like that lol
The game makes you grind out the tedious depths and only rewards you with the same outfits and clothing that were in breath of the wild. It’s lazy on Nintendos part and not very good in my personal opinion. I wish these games actually rewarded you for exploring and adventuring since that’s what the games are supposed to be about anyways.
@ShadowWizard224 there was 2 dungeons in the depths. Several coliseums with combat. Re fighting bosses. Yiga hideouts. Quests with koga. Most of the rewards itself is combat oriented and that's fine. They're should have been more to it though for sure and if you didn't have botw dlc, all the cosmetics were new at least.
Thank you for the correct answer. It also had the gloom which made it slightly more challenging than on the surface. I loathe the TOTK haters. The game is a joy.
Really looking forward to this game! When Link's Awakening first came out, I was super disappointed with the art style because I wanted them to be more true to the original graphics; Link's Awakening on the Game Boy was my very first video game I owned, so it has tons of nostalgia for me. Putting that aside, I do appreciate the art style for what it is. When I saw this game was using the same art style, I felt an initial wave of "Ugh, not again" because of my response to Link's Awakening...but knowing that it's a standalone game and not a remake has helped overcome that, and I am truly excited to see TOTK style gameplay in a top-down game!
I guess since I grew up in the age Nintendo kept the Gameboy games and the NES Console games separate I can appreciate the new game. And this reminds me of the Gameboy games that were previously released. We would look for both styles back in the day. I was shocked to see them release this after they stopped selling the gameboy.
My wild guess is that the Trident is the same one from FSA, regardless of timeline, and that it is also Ghirahim, and is the actual villain. I'm probably wrong but god I want to be right.
Great video, me and my son are new Zelda fans that started with TOTK, but finished all games on Switch now cannot wait for this one. I am a huge fan of being able to solve puzzle 10 different ways like in Tears and also one of my favorite ways of Fighting was a Muddle Buds and robots so I think Echoes will work fine for me. But given that Links Awakening was a dream I wish that this art style was only for only that game.
You probably won't see this but there's definitely dungeons but without the items because link had a bow and I don't expect the bow to just magically go back but they might be landmarks.
They are reusing the art style because this game is 100% connected to Link’s Awakening. Again, Link’s Awakening is the game of courage. Echoes of Wisdom is the game of Wisdom. Will we get a game of power??? Who knows! Even if that isn’t the case, the link we see in both games is the Hero of Legend.
Honestly I can’t wait for the story of the game. Whilst I love Ganon(dorf) as an antagonist, I’d also love it if the rifts were some kind of new evil or sorcery at play dimensions beyond what we’ve seen from other villains in the series. Something seperate from Demise and Ganon like Majora which isn’t explained in game completely, but left as a mystery.
I think I’m on Team Zeltik with the blur purely because I don’t hate it at all. I actually didn’t really pay attention to it in Link’s Awakening until all the hate appeared online. For me, it draws your focus into the section Link (and now Zelda) is in. I don’t feel I would be upset if they removed it either though so maybe I’m on neither team 😂
I'm wondering if you all have played Links Awakening DX HD. To me, it added an incredible fresh coat of paint to what is already one of my all time favorite games.
43:26 I would honestly love to see a new female villain in Echoes of Wisdom. We definitely need more female villains since we only have Cia and Twinrova out Zelda's entire rogues gallery.
1:09:01 I still haven’t seen anyone mention how much these things look like the glow pikmin mounds out of pikmin 4 and how tri itself looks very reminiscent of a glow pikmin! 😭 I’ve heard they themselves are based on an actual creature in Japan so probably also the inspiration for tri and the fast travel system
in my irl experience, talking to friends and coworkers, fans who only play botw/totk usually don't care about top down zelda. but fans of old zelda might feel aliented with the mechanics so I don't know how well this game will do
I've been thinking it's in the downfall timeline, but the fact that we see Eldin Volcano instead of Death Mountain inplies it takes place before the mountain was renamed, which would be before Ocarina of Time. So now my top 2 theories are: either at the end of the downfall timeline leading towards BotW, or sometime before OoT.
Honestly I never noticed the blur until they brought it up. I went and found a video with that mod he mentioned and having the option to turn it off would be sick. If not it won't really bother me at all.
If, I'm being greedy, I'm gonna be REALLY GREEDY and demand not just Rito in addition of River Zoras and Deku Scrubs but also Minish, Kokiri, Subrosians, Korok, Toukei, Anouki, Lokomo and Twili. Of course I know I won't get any but I still want (and I also wish so hard that the next 3D Zelda has less of the same plain, empty landscape everywhere and instead fill it with all the civilizations the series established so far, save some that could be consider pr-evolution of em). I STRONGLY disagree about Link being op in BotW/TotK at least for most of the game, until he collected and upgraded a lot of armors and visited enough shrines to have a decent health pool. Might as well turn out to be just Koume and Kotake again that use the "Echoes" power to bring Ganon back and stuff. If it was, it would be another point in favor of this having started out as a Oracle remake. Either way, I think it's a save bet to say the echoes aren't just a gameplay mechanic but also a key point in the story and it might very well be, that the whole reason for the rifts going wild, is the abuse of the echo power by whoever is the antagonist of the game. Another thing to look out for is the potential lack of dungeons or any more than some puzzle rooms. It would be on point for a princess to just solve political conflict and discourse among the people of the land too... If you take too long with release after announcing, people stop talking and caring for or it gets buried by more recent announcements. Shortening attention span and all... I like this art style for top-down. I don't think it will have the same ripples the Wind Waker one had but that certainly is nowhere near my issue, or rather potential issue with this game and I don't think this games world will be so big so I will have an issue with all the repeating landscape in it, like I had with the Switch 3D games. Anyway, while I'm not on pins and needles for this game (since BotW/TotK heavily pushed me away from Zelda) but there is nothing else I'm waiting for in the targeted release month so I might as well give it a try and I look forward to fans adding whatever of the world comes from this game to the original A Link to the Past in fan works.
I have a friend who is almost exactly like what Luke was describing with his friend in regards to being an avid Zelda fan but not caring much about echos of wisdom at all. My friend has completed TOTK 100% but EoW just doesn’t seem like his cup of tea. I def think EoW will sell better than LA in the first year but I think it’ll probably cap off at around 10 mil in lifetime sales I would also have to lean more towards Zeltik’s view of the LA art style. It didn’t really bother me or hinder my experience that much, but I can understand how it could
This is the first Zelda game my wife has ever told me she wants to play. It's purely because of the art style. She thinks it is so cute. (She doesn't know about the Links Awakening remake. We weren't married at the time I had my copy of that game.)
My biggest worry now is that it'll be too easy. There's a scene (dont remember exactly from where) where it shows the bed she creates with an echo healing hearts. Which means you can heal hearts whenever, since we're told you can create echoes whenever. That may not be the end of the world if theres some limits (like if you cant create a bed unless you have space, and its not in the middle of a major fight) but that was a big problem with the Peach game: Nintendo treating something being supposedly "for girls" meaning it has to be easier and simpler. I think this is marketed more as a general Zelda game, meaning "for everyone," don't get me wrong, but I still worry about this kind of underlying, subtle gendered expectations starring another princess character.
As for worrying about dungeons, no Zelda game has ever not had them. I’m sure it’ll have proper dungeons. I know BOTW and TOTK are exceptions but this is a 2D Zelda. It just has to have traditional dungeons
@@_sparrowhawk well whatever. It’ll still be fun. I don’t know why people are so worried about. Nintendo knows what they’re doing. It’s a freaking Zelda game and will be amazing
Regarding the dungeons. We can see small rifts and bigger ones. I would just bet that there will be tons of smaller ones with shrine like puzzles and one big one per area that would be like the divine beasts or dungeons. Just hoping those will be thematical for each area instead of being all alike in a "rift dimension" similar to the divine beasts.
14:53 - I was really disappointed that the Gerudo vai outfit didn’t return in TotK; sure it was useless as armour, so once you got other gear to deal with the heat it’s only use was to be able to walk around Gerudo town, but Link slayed in that outfit, and I even deliberately had him wear it when I pulled the Master Sword in BotW because of how good he looks in it.
The fact that you didn’t say it was the TOTK of top down Zelda. TOTK is the one where you’re actually being creative much like in this new game. So many TOTK haters out there.
We use 2-D all the time. Like we would say a 2-D Mario versus a 3-D Mario games and Metroid dread is a 2-D Metroid game rather than Metroid prime which we would say a 3-D Metroid game.
The 2D vs 3D debate is so stupid. People don't know how to classify anything. And the line is completely arbitrary. People call pokemon black 2D even though the overworld is mostly 3D just because the battles and npcs are 2D
I mostly can't wait for people to insist that the companion's name is pronounced "Tree". More importantly: I hope this does well enough for Nintendo to greenlight a canon Linkle game. I NEED LINKLE NINTENDO PLS
I do disagree with Luke about the art style on two counts, sorry ZM! I think the art style and tilt-shift effect was a gorgeous addition to Link's Awakening and I think it was very considered and intentional- and because of that, I do think it's odd to include the tilt-shift effect into Echoes of Wisdom, because it said so much about the setting of Link's Awakening.
@ZelDudes: This really looks like it will be a *FUN* game that you could both play/watch and I am really looking *FORWARD* to seeing you guys tackle it when the time comes... Now to answer the question that you guys posed... How would you guys *FEEL* if you found out that the the *Final Boss* of this new game was in fact *TwinRova* and that you had to do some *COLLECTING* of stuff in order to find the right way of defeating them? As I was listening to you guys *DEBATE* this topic, I decided to think about it and chime in!!! Does my *Theory* hold water in your eyes? ~ JonseyG 👲💖
When Link's Awakening Switch was announced, I remember not liking the art style much. Once I started playing though, it grew on me. After I played Pokemon Brilliant Daimond, I started appreciating the Link's Awakening artstyle a lot more for being so much better.
giving horses echoe carrots is kinda ef'd up tho, those will disappear, you're giving the horse the pleasure of the food but no sustenance, they are all gonna starve
Zelda fan here for over 20 years..i am just so glad that echos of wisdom acually looks like a Zelda game..no matter how complex and genius botw and totk are.. it has no true Zelda atmosphere and identity. Some people disagree or have no idea what i mean. If you understand what i mean please feel free to let me know by commenting.
echoes looks fun but Totk kinda burned me so I am not going to go in blind faith with this one so I will wait for release, which I do with most other games but I've never done that with a Zelda game before 😕 I just really did not like the open puzzle design in totk, everything can be cheesed. If every puzzle has unlimited solutions then every puzzle has one solution. I'm worried this game will have the same problem but trying to be optimistic. totk seems to have a similar reaction to what Skyward Sword got back in the day. ALBW was very much a response SS's criticisms, Echoes does not seem to be that for Totk (likely it's too early and they were in development at the same time) maybe the next game will address the criticisms. edit: 31:30 lol my exact worries, your ability are too powerful
“Everything can be cheesed” You cheesed all the shrines, meaning you basically selected “Easy Mode” on all them and are blaming Nintendo? It’s on you pal.
Did they just label Samus Aran as a "Nintendo Princess"? How dare they bring our Goddess down to peasantry levels. Metroid might not be the biggest series in Nintendo's catalog, but as a Heroine, Samus is above the rest.
She's a woman, she's attractive, a female lead and has stolen the heart of millions of fans just like Peach, Daisy, Rosalina, Zelda, Midna, etc. ergo, she's considered a Nintendo Princess.
