"It felt like we didn't get the Browns team we were expecting" yeah because 26% of the salary cap finished the season on IR. Over the last 10 years you were lucky to get 6 wins when you were that injured.
Exactly! The browns are arguably better than the 49ers (outside of QB of course)! But none of that matters if your QB gets outplayed by 40 year old Joe Flacco😂
I’m shocked that you guys didn’t mention the absolute hammering the team took with injuries. Starting QB All Pro RB 3 Tackles I believe 2 DLinemen Down to JOK and nobody at LB Down all three Safeties to two UDFA’s, one a rookie and the other a 2nd year Not to mention the fact they have a new OC and I don’t recall a passing comment on that? Edit: Guys, we know, they let Flacco leave. Flacco wasn’t good enough to get the Browns where they need to go and Watson isn’t currently that guy either. Not what this comment is about.
I think I know why, these guys don’t consider injuries in their evaluation. When talking about Chubb going down and how it affected the offense, they said something like “there are injuries all over the NFL, you need to be able to pivot”
You guys didnt mention it during the coaching personnel portion but Mike Vrabel is a coaching and personnel consultant for the team, dont know the full level of involvment but thats a very important important personnel change thats wasnt mentioned
Good to know - the team didn't have him listed on the website (with the coaches) when I wrote the agenda and that's the source I use for these lists. Appreciate the heads-up.
@@BootlegFootballIt just goes to show how little preparation you put in to this particular episode. The points you're making are very dated and lack critical context. I was honestly really looking forward to this episode as a browns fan, mostly because of how in-depth you've gone in to just about every other situation you've covered, but to see you glaze over some of the most important aspects of last season and this offseason to focus on points that have been made popular by the national media is very disappointing.
@@chrisbruchak4519 yeah overall this episode is a bit meh. It’s their first episode of the this year’s series under an hour and it’s really obvious when you consider a lot of the things they didn’t talk about. Surprised and disappointed
@@BootlegFootballhow are you talking about a team without doing full research especially not contexulizing injuries. Watson bias against him still there. Nick chubb makes those wheels Ferrari tires btw don't be silly
I'd agree except he wins games he shouldn't. He even stays close in games he does lousy in. Luck counts for a lot more than we're comfortable admitting & this spread to Flacco too, whose #s, extended to a full season would have had 24 INTs.
@@someperson8151 Another luck factor. He benefits from things beyond his control! Brady had this his Entire Career from ref calls going his way Right from Playoff Game One to opposing receivers dropping easy passes, to opposing defensive players dropping the INTs he throws, to kickers missing FGs against the Pats 2.5 times as often as the next team. Someone did 3 great videos on all the stats of things that went Brady's way & it's nuts. Luck wins more games than talent.
@@UsefulPreconceivedNotionsFlacco was severely overrated as a brown. He did good but he also cost the browns the playoffs by his dumb turnovers. I’m glad he’s not the QB anymore Deshaun is much better
@@TheBookOfKenny I only returned to watching the NFL in '22 because I found channels offering high-end analysis. I figured this could help us identify the terrible play-callers as well as keep the cheating in check. I over-estimated NFL fans. Y'all avoid discussing play-calling like it's the Last Bastion of Racism where you can congratulate White Coaches for holding back the talent of Black QBs (& by all means, push me on this, anyone if you want). But one of the things that made me stop when I did next to spy-gate obviously continuing (how did all of Brady's Slow Receivers keep gaining those amounts of separation no other teams' élite faster WRs did) was Flacco's great playoff run. The Broncos failed to catch two of the Easiest, laziest-thrown INTs I'd ever seen in college let alone the NFL. The first, one Bronco defender later said they couldn't stop themselves from running & their run took them past the play, the other, the guy literally kept his upper half facing forward while trying to run backwards at angle & tripped over himself. The NFL could control what we did or didn't see on replays etc. Can't do so in today's high-tech world.
Deshaun is a tough pill. The guy hasn't played twelve games over three seasons. He played at least two, but probably three games last year, with a broken throwing shoulder. For somebody who only played a quarter of the season, he had multiple injuries to his throwing arm. So to judge him on this body of work, I think, Is somewhat unfair to him. That said: That's two seasons now. Doesn't matter if his excuses are good, they're paying for results. I'm not saying any of this to try and justify the quality of play, But rather to suggest that if he has a good season, it won't be as shocking then if a quarterback, who consistently played poorly for no good reason other then that they're not very good, lights it up. I wanna see him get 12+ games with all his weapons before I write it off. Ab and ks are very smart. I think they know that this is the year. Put up numbers and wins. Anything short of top 10 qb play should trigger a 1st round qb pick even if they make it to the playoffs.
Here is what I love, and you're 100% correct. As good as the Browns were... 11 Wins with 5 QBs and resting Starters in the Final Week to waltz into the Play Offs (as opposed to sneaking in or falling in)... and we should have been Better. Damn right. So now it's 2024, let's do that. Let's be Better.
deshaun has only played like 11 games with the browns (which is part of the issue), but he just hasnt had much oppurtunity to prove much yet. saying deshaun has been there for "a lot" of njokus tenure as a brown just is wrong lol, hes been on the team for years and watson has played like 11 games for the browns
I was kinda hoping to hear a discussion of what a new offensive coordinator might do to the pass game. If they can't change the QB because money, you have to try to find a system he will work better in. Flacco absolutely ran Van Pelt's offense better and it probably showed them that they were trying to fit a square tire in a round hole.
Everybody brings up the raven game because it's not just a one game surprise thing. Every week watson was looking better and better. And the plays he was just missing finally connected in that ravens Gane. It's not some crazy surprise performance if you truly put your bias aside and watched him he was getting close to that all year. So as a browns fan you think it finally clicks we beat the number one team in the nfl and bam watson season ended with injury AGAIN.
They don't want to see it this way...he just sucks to them. Its crazy because everyone was on his meat following the ravens game until it came out that he got injured.
@NealOfTaylor44 I totally get it I'm not really asking fans to do it. But them as professionals who get paid to put this out to thousands of people they should be putting their bias aside.
@cydneyrobb3554 facts people just forget everybody was talking about how that looked like old dashaun then Brett says oh it just like a few scrambles it wasn't really any passes. He went 14 for 14 passing in the second half for almost 200 yards what is he talking about. I know his history as a Texan fan and how watson really did a number on that fanbase but he gets paid to talk about sports. He should be putting that bs aside and being intellectually honest about what we saw.
Loved the roster & the coaching - underestimated how good the defense would be (#1 is tough thing to predict) and didn't think even Stefanski could push this team as far as they did. Considering he did it without Chubb for most of the year? Amazing accomplishment as a coaching staff.
@@bryan-still-a-poker-playerRight people talk like watson was gonna play terrible against the cupcake schedule and pass defenses the browns had at the end of the year.
Their Browns takes are really hard to watch, zero context most of the time. "Watson wasn't good in chunk plays" - well look at the games he played in, he simply didn't have to throw Bombs all the time! They absolutely guttet the Bengals (24-3) in a game where it rained and Joe Burrow got all the excuses, but look at how awful Watson was in that game... they destroyed the Titans (27-3) and annihilated the Cardinals (27-0). But man always the same "Watson stunk. No chance of winning anything with him at QB." He had a really bad game against the Steelers. Like almost every other Brown that day. No mentions of the injuries besides Nick Chubb, although the Browns were for example 3!!! starting OTs short midseason. No mentions of them resting almost all (healthy) starters against the Bengals in week 18, which would in all likelyhood have resulted in a 12 win season, had they played them. But that would have spoiled their Bengals video and all the "The Bengals are so great they won 10 games with all the adversity". It's ok that you don't like the Browns. It's ok that you voice you're oppinion that you don't like the Browns. But then please try not to sell it as unbiased and fact-based.
You are absolutely right. However these guys are analysts, not fans. It’s impossible to debate their logic. It seems to me the overarching issue the Browns face is they are Super Bowl caliber roster that hasn’t produced a Super Bowl run. Basically the goal post constantly shifts for this team and is always unattainable. Until 4 is that dude again
@@damexicanpanda606correct their analysis isn’t that deep and they didn’t really take time to analyze the browns last year 😂… calling it “not glazing” is just laughable
i have a couple of problems with this video. First, EJ literally said our CEILING last year was 9 wins. That’s insane. But he takes credit for saying this team would be good last year. Second, Deshaun had more than one good game. He had really good games in Tennessee and Arizona and an under appreciated game against the Bengals in week 1 (actually watch the game and don’t look at the stats.) Lastly, at 37:28 the play that Brett says LITERALLY HAPPENS. In the 4th quarter of the ravens game in week 10 with 2 minutes and 22 seconds on the clock, Deshaun hits Amari deep middle under a safety and past a corner for 17 yards. It was a pinpoint throw and was one of the 14 passes he completed in that second half. It’s not really the exact play, but it’s the same effect. It’s a dig route instead of an out, but it’s ten yards deeper than his said on a down earlier with even more on the line. Also, they keep saying the “most successful time was under joe flacco” which is literally wrong because deshaun won one more game, but one of those was the Indy game where he had like 5 snaps. However, he played a much harder schedule than flacco did. Y’all didn’t study this team AT ALL and it shows. Do better.
Always frustrating when you are a fan of a team and can tell that the person presenting information is just taking things at surface level. Like I understand taking a deep dive on 32 teams is crazy work but to put out content and just misrepresent players and the team in general is disappointing.
They just can’t let their hatred of Watson get out of the way. These guys are so biased when it comes to the Browns I would quite literally ignore anything and everything they say when it comes to them.
I’d love a single video around late August where y’all j go over everything that’s changed for every team since ur preview videos. Like two hours, j discuss he ramifications of each key thing and how that changes what you’d previously talked about.
@@ezweav4550 when your defense is holding the opposing team to 3 points or less (which they did three times!), yeah it’ll be hard to have a bad point differential. Watson was also playing against subpar, bottom of the barrel, pass defenses for some of these games (Tenn and Arizona). Look at the his games vs Cincinnati and Pittsburgh to see what I mean. I’d argue he still left a lot on the field in his “good” games like against Tennessee. Watson was inaccurate, his decision making questionable, and didn’t keep the offense in favorable positions. Just because he had a world beater of a defense, doesn’t mean we should overlook his personal play. 4-1 is not a reflection of Watson. The Browns got there in spite of him.
@@colinbunn6066 Yeah you got the cause and effect backwards. With Watson, we sustained drives, held onto the ball and kept the defense off the field. It was complementary. The defense was awesome but it was max-awesome with Watz running the other side of the ball. I have looked at the games against everyone we played last year, but I'd venture to guess you haven't (and if you did, certainly not A22). In every game we won with him, he made plays in the 4th quarter that put the game away. If you don't know that that is an important aspect of evaluating QB play, then you're not in a position to be lecturing anyone about this.
@@ezweav4550 can you really put the game away in the 4th when you're up by 27 and the opponents haven't score a touchdown? Because that's 3 out of the 4 wins right there. Watson didn't need to put games away. In fact, I'd say he DID give the game away against the Steelers in week 2 with his fumble. His game against the Ravens was his best but Ford gave him 110 yards on the ground at 6 yards a carry. The Ravens were gearing up to stop the run most of the game and, like EJ and Brett said in this video, he never stepped up with his arm and made the play. I'm sorry but the data and my own eyes don't support Watson as a positive for the Browns last year. Maybe he'll turn it around. But that 4-1 record isn't a shining accomplishment for Watson. Incredible defense and an admirable running game lead by Jerome Ford carried them. But hey, if Watson comes back this season and is the all-pro caliber QB that he used to be, I'll come back and say I was wrong. However, I think we're in for another season of 58% completion percentage, 220 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, a fumble, and 3 sacks with receivers running free downfield all game. Last year, Watson was not good.
This kinda comment shows this guy only watched the Steelers game. None of the games were rough outside of the one played on national TV. If you watched the games, or even just watched some film on RU-vid of those games, you’d see he wasn’t bad at all. Not great, no where near as bad as you guys think.
Please please please include an infographic summarizing the positions of need of the team ahead of the draft. I always feel a bit lost when it's a team I'm not familiar with
I have been waiting for this video for months. I'm certainly bias as a Browns fan, but I've also supported Brett and EJ for years and admire their work. This video is half-assed and most of the commentary is inaccurate. Fortunately, we don't even need to argue about Deshaun Watson to agree. Of all of the losses, there is only one player on that list that matters, and that's Sione TakiTaki. Fortunately the Hicks signing offsets so we'll only feel on short yardage downs. Saying Harrison Bryant is a notable loss is proof and there was no research done on this video. He's been a cut candidate for years and his only production is from play design. Geron Christian has been on more teams then years he's been in the league and the only reason he did anything was Callahan, that's why he followed him to the Titans. Kareem Hunt was ineffective between the 20s and he was productive because Jerome Ford was useless in the red zone. Joe Flacco isn't a notable loss because he isn't compatible with the Browns new offense, and we've already exceeded the limits of what he can produce at this stage in his career. Nick Chubb isn't a re-sign, it's a re-structure. Also, it's clear they filmed this video months ago as all their comments on Nick Chubb are off. He's full speed at mini. This video sucks. Not because I disagree, or have contrasting opinions, but because it's objectively inaccurate. If this is the Browns content these two are going to put out, save the time and ignore the team.
@@BootlegFootball I appreciate that, and also that developing content at this scale means you may not have the time to do an in-depth dive for each team. I know Brett wants Jimmy and Deshaun to fall off a cliff, just was hoping for more objective analysis.
@@BootlegFootballlol 😂 that’s your rebuttal to his comment… basically just proves you didn’t do your homework and are just spewing dated and preconceived notions 😂
I think you’re maybe a little harsh on Deshaun for this season in particular. The Cincinnati game week 1 was a monsoon. Pittsburgh week 2 was mediocre at best. Week 3 against Tennessee was his best game as a Brown (easy game script, sure). Then missed time. Came back and was hit or miss against Arizona but made some encouraging splash plays while injured. Baltimore was discussed, played with a fractured shoulder and was perfect with what he was able to do in the second half. He has not been worth the money, but he’s also not even played a full season of games and there were some (not a ton, but enough to have a little hope) flashes to point to improvement next season.
This is weapons grade cope, Deshaun’s has multiple passing metrics below the top 32. Guy isn’t an NFL starter anymore, this ordeal makes the Russ contract look like a bargain.
@@matthewgalli3224 I really don’t think it is… in that week 1 game Joe Burrow went 14-31 with 82 yards and a 12 yard long. Neither QB could throw the ball at all… like I said, the Steelers game was rough, but I was at the game against Tennessee and Deshaun played lights out. He wasn’t healthy for a single game outside of those 3, and still showed flashes in the Cardinals game and played lights out in the second half of the Ravens game… Like I said, he hasn’t been worth the money, but people are so quick to throw out stats without context to fit their (very fair) dislike towards Deshaun as a person.
@@maxstuart8481facts this is honestly one of the most objective takes I’ve seen on Watson. He hasn’t played like an elite QB outside of the titans game and the 2nd half against Baltimore but he hasn’t been bad in any game except the Steelers. He’s been an average to above average QB in the games he’s played and went 7-4. He just needs to stay on the field and I think the browns will do just fine this year and make a postseason run
Just want to make sure you guys knew that we started 5 different QBs, played without our top 3 OTs for a lot of the season (in the playoff game we were down to our #5 and #6 OTs), as well as several key starters in Playoff game on D. This team has earned a ceiling of 13-14 and a floor of 10.
Personally, I really think you need excellent QB play to elevate a team to a 13 or 14 win candidate. I just don’t think the Browns have that. Put a healthy Kirk Cousins on this roster and they probably win the Super Bowl, but I’m not sure Deshaun will ever even get back to that level, let alone a top 7-8 guy.
I found last year very memorable, if not magical. Playoff game was a disaster on defense otherwise id call it a major success. As always overcoming imjuries will be key again this season.
Watson played very well against the Titans and Cardinals last year. His only bad game was against Pittsburgh and he had to watch his backfield mate go down with an injury and deal with all those damn yinzers. Watson has been inconsistent if anything but I would not say he’s been bad no matter how much everyone wants to say that because he has had good games. That Cincy game in the opener would be difficult for any QB to succeed in. Burrow struggled. Hell, he only had 82 passing yards, likely the lowest total of his career so far. Mahomes would have struggled in those conditions because it was a driving monsoon that sat over the stadium the whole game.
I think Cleveland didn’t need to make major changes, due to the team as a whole getting back a ton of their talent. Assuming that we don’t get as hampered with injuries this season, I think the team will be at the same pace if not better than they were last season
For the Browns in particular, I would wager 80-90% of their input is data based. The other 10-20% is some tape or highlights. I doubt they invest a lot of time into prepping for a team like Cleveland
@@bryan-still-a-poker-player it depends on the team. As viewers we can’t expect them to be experts on incoming draft classes, up to date with the season as it goes on, and also rewatching the whole season to preview the teams and have them have 100% coverage and charting of every play for the whole season for each team.
I've been to the Browns tailgating last year and it was phenomenal! Was actually the highlight of the day for me as I managed to pick to only home loss of the season 😅
Met Kizer the summer of 2020 at a park in Sherman Oaks. We were both throwing balls to different receivers. Told him I was a diehard Browns fan, and was pissed how they seemed to intentionally try to get him hurt. He was just about misty eyed when I was going on about they did him dirty overall. He said he had a workout with the Lions the following week. He obviously didn’t get a contract, and I don’t think he’s been on a roster since. Nice dude. Too bad he didn’t work out for us.
Nick Chubb was averaging 6.1 yards a carry before he got hurt and we played with four different quarterbacks and we STILL got 11 wins. 💪🏿 You can’t tell me 6.1 yards per carry wouldn’t equate to at least 2 more wins.
Listen , WE ALL GET IT!! NO ONE LIKES WATSON but, give the man a chance to play an actual season- without an 11 game suspension and a 11 week stay on IR! Coach of the year twice in the last 4, needless to say great D and D coordinator, ALL TIME great RB coming back, lost no one of significance to FA... Deeper playoff run on the horizon if we're not skewed by the Watson takes... NOT a browns or watson fan
Like all of the points so far, but one thing with Deshaun was that he went into the season with a shoulder injury, and couldn’t get healthy, which is why they were conservative to start the season
He still threw more than when the other QBs were in there [% wise] (Source: Stats vs Film on Underdog) So I don't think it was conservative. I just think that his skill set is not good with Kevin's system.
Let that sink in. 21st in Rushing, 27th in Passing... but 10th in Points Scored. Flacco was part of that, if you don't add the Play Off Game then Flacco was the 6th Best PPG in the League (against Teams, not Individual QBs). But surprisingly, Watson was 8th. Despite both having their issues, both found ways to Score. And Watson did it more Consistently... he didn't go Under 21. Flacco had higher highs, but also lower lows in that regard. Fact is, despite the Injuries and Issues, we SCORED. That, paired with the #1 Passing Defense means, We Won.
Last season couldve been historic if it wasn't for the most significant injuries that i can remember any team having during a season. People remember Chubb and Watson but forget about all the injuries on th O line and on defense. The Houston playoff game is misleading. We had no line and no run game ao they just kept coming and we couldnt stop them. Two pick sixes,one when we were at least guaranteed a fg. That alone was a 10pt swing.
DeShsun supporters are like: There was bad weather in one game. TJ Watt scared him the next week. Then he had an average game! Look at thst one!!! And then he was injured. ... Just wait, he'll have one or two good games next season.
@reggiedidszuhn5173 they say watson was hurt and mention chubb. in the seahawks episode they talk about all the ol injuries but they dont even mention the browns top 3 tackles being on season ending ir or the fact that they started 5 qbs yet won 11 games with 40% of their cap on ir
Out margin of error allowed because of our defense makes it so we don't need watson to be superman if he can stay healthy and play a full season (watson hasn't played more that 6 games consecutively) I feel confident he can play at least at an above average level and that will be enough to have a very strong season resulting in a playoff birth and we will just have to see how we are playing going into the postseason
'A Ferrari with square tires' is an S Tier metaphor for a team like the Browns. Dang I'm blown away how funny and accurate that metaphor is. I hope t he Browns make to the AFC Championship and lose to the Chiefs. Them or the Bengals, I like the a Ohio teams. The more I think about it, a gravy train with biscuit wheels is probably why I like that metaphor so much
Has anybody attempted an explanation on what happened to Deshaun? Is there any comparable throughout history for such a drastic dropoff ? Maybe he needs manual release 80x a day like Tiger seemingly did as well
The comments have me feeling down. But I know how bret talks about DW so I kinda expected this. Have not listened to the episode yet. But last year was an awesome season and there’s so much left on the bone. Love you Brett and EJ. You guys are top tier. But if the comments and episode matches the overall opinion. Bias and lack of choosing to study this team is not you’re typical standard of work.
@@matthewobrien7326 Somewhat. A stale offense is a stale offense period, regardless of what the defense does. It can get you to the playoffs with a great defense but if your stale offense comes against a top 10 defense in the playoffs, your best hope is to win the game 6-3, which is not super reliable.
@@pat_rick2419 I’m not saying you don’t need to get something out of an offense, but they’re stressing needing Watson to be Mahomes-ish. In 2021 the SB winning team gave up 9. In 2019…3. Sometimes it’s enough to not make mistakes. With health? Chubb and an o-line and this D? I’ll take my chances.
@@AkronKid330 Super Bowl ring ain’t got nothing to do with this. There’s 2 pro teams PAYING bro to not wear their jersey 🤣. There’s not a soul that would take Wilson over Watson. Watson ain’t even got that much film over the last 2-3 years and his film is better then Wilson’s lol
If Fitzpatrick doesn't cheap shot Chubb the offense stays balanced and Watson probably doesn't get hurt and the 2023 Browns finish with 13-14 wins. Chubb will be back by week 4 and even if he's only 80% of his peak he's still a top 5 running back. Watson is going to put it all together and finish no worse than top 10. We have a solid receiver group, a top 10 kicker and the best defense in the NFL. The Browns are projected to win 8.5 games and finish last in the division. Yeah, ok. Smart money's on the over because they're taking the North in 2024 with 13 wins
I will say they are not getting what they paid for but what I can say is circumstances in the first 2 yrs just weren’t in his favor. I will say bringing in Dorsey is going to help bc it’s what he’s good at. And if he stays healthy I think we’ll get what we paid for at least this yr. And maybe DW is bust but I’m gonna give him this yr before I put the gavel down on him.
And Bootleg are soft as 🧻 for changing the Steelers video title that thing was beyond 🐐 and y’all took it away For anyone who didn’t see it it was “If you didn’t love me at my 9-8, you don’t deserve me at my 10-7”
It’s curious because Watson hasn’t played a full season since being in Cleveland and that’s the problem, it’s not his play. He didn’t even play 5 games in a row last season. If he sucks and it’s clear as day after a full season, then the hate makes sense. Man hasn’t even played 15 games in a season yet. This year will make the hate shine, or these haters are going to look real bad.
Here's my question to Browns fans at this moment would you rather have Deshaun Watson or would you rather just take a chance on Jameis Winston or Tyler Huntley out the gate? I know it doesn't matter because Deshaun Watson will get the start regardless, but I'm just curious what ya'll thoughts are.
The bengals are in every national outlets throat right now. It’s comical. Luckily, this is why we play football. So browns fans can prove the analysts wrong 😂
@@austinkelly4058 they’ve proved them wrong with like 40% of their starters last year and yet they still sleep 😂 bengals living off of that 1 time they beat Mahomes 3 years ago
The joke's on you. Squares have a smaller moment of inertia than circles. Meaning square tires are actually easier to rotate than circular ones. Boom. Roasted.
