You are correct in the assumption that the Jian is a side-sword, but beyond the early medieval period it wasn't used much as a main battle weapon. The most common Chinese main battle weapons were, like in medieval Europe, spears and various types of pole-arms, a Jian would be carried mostly by officers / nobility as a secondary weapon in war and as a status symbol in civilian life. It's this civilian use that preserved the shape and design for so long and later the Jian came to be regarded more as a civilian self-defense implement, while the Dao and its longer variants kept the status of mainly military weapons. Regarding use I'm not aware of any manuals dating back to the 7th century, so it's anybody's guess, I'd say your assumption that it was employed in conjunction with shields is quite reasonable. Late medieval an more recent use as a civilian side sword is what current kungfu sword practice represents, that's not fictional or unrealistic, in such circumstances shields and armor were uncommon and so the techniques are more focused on agility. Generally speaking cuts are meant to be just debilitating and thrusts are regarded as the "kill strikes", so you are right about it being a more thrust-oriented design. Most kungfu movies are plagued by a number of silly mistakes: they're often using thin practice swords (which are far lighter and more flexible than the real ones), they greatly exaggerate some techniques to the point when they become stupidly unrealistic and they often choreograph spectacular moves that have little to do with the real techniques just to make the fight more dramatic. Actual Jian techniques are swift, tight and precise, not the kind of wide spinning "dance" portrayed in such movies. Also worth mentioning is the fact that modern sports demonstrations are not exactly accurate to the fighting techniques they're supposed to represent, they emphasize some of the more spectacular (and risky) techniques and skip the "boring" (but useful) short parries and quick attacks.
I think they were also used similar to a cruciform sword around the Ming but later were used on their own. I heard the floppy design were from training swords and swords used in Chinese Opera. I have seen jian with crossguards and even a mural with a Chinese demon king (a god of the underworld) from the Ming fingering a crossguard jian like European style sword salute.
Also note that Chinese folding metal blades were of poorer quality than Japanese blade (its why they were traded and copied a lot in China), and thus the point of the Jian often broke and had to be rounded to prevent further damage from grinding it back to a point (keep in mind that the center of the blade is soft iron,only the edge are very hard). Also, a lot of Jian were very wide and were more cutters than stabbing weapons. I can understand why this miss conception was born, but I hate when people randomly call it, "the Chinese equivalent of a rapier"
The GhostHero Bull. China had early access to high quality iron mines and blast furnaces, ie they had the ability to make durable monosteel blades well before the Japanese.
Vladimir Efimov Jians or Jian swordsmanship tending to be thrust centric depends on the individual sword or swordsmanship. In particular considering the surviving antique examples from the Qing era (usually militia ones) that have blade designs that without a doubt indicate very powerful cutting ability. Styles which wield the Jian mainly with two hands (or sometimes outright specifically wield large longswords) like Chao Xian Shi Fa and certain Tongbei/Pigua/Mantis/Xingyiquan lineages also indicate a rather cut-centric paradigm.
The Chinese swordsman in the thumbnail is Chen Wei Ming, he was an inner door disciple of Yang Cheng Fu. As you said,there is no such thing as a taiji sword only jian and dao. Most antique jian I have handled have been poorly made/balanced 19th century jians like yourself (and I never had the big bucks for high status jians) however I have owned high quality repo's of antique high quality jians (such as those custom made by Garret Chans Jin shi forge ) and they have been fast nimble excellent cutters and thrusters. Dao were often used with Shields however the civilian jian was not. Military tended to use dao or much heavier jian.
@@Je_suis_Jefe military jian were wider and heavier than the civilian jian however don't underestimate the civilian jian,wielded by a skilled swordsman it is as deadly as any other sword. As I said-quick nimble excellent cutter (remember it was not used against armour ), it's a bloody good sword in my opinion.
@@emptyemptiness8372 As far as I know there was later (but still pre-18th c.) jian dubbed shuangshiou jian (forgive me if I butchered that) that was long enough to permit dedicated two-handed use
Qing& Early Republic spring steel blades were for thrusting and slicing, not chopping. These blades were favored because they favor high skill-the ability to control the opponent's weappn, even using a lighter weapon to do so, then thrusting determinatively. The primary targets for the flexible modern blades are the tendons (wrist and ankle primarily) and the ultimate goal for thrusting is the abdomen, to the depth of a few inches on a person of normal weight to cut organs and produce internal bleeding, *avoiding contact with bone*. Impaling is to be avoided, and so the flex of these blades, before "popping" to pierce, removes the possibility of impaling, but the practitioner must have explosive hsingiyi striking power to do this. The flexible blades can also be inserted into the brain through the chin and soft palate. The ability to withdraw the sword quickly to make a parry is as important as the ability to insert the sword cleanly.
From recollection, the Jian was considered the gentleman's sword and the Dao was more the foot soldier's sword. I recall seeing pictures of old Joan that were fatter and shorter than the more modern thin one though.
Jian was more oftentimes used by officer and noble as their sidearm( Accessories）. Since Han dynasty ( 202 BC-220 AD) to Qing dynasty （1644 AD - 1912 AD), revolving knife (环首刀）, has always been the weapon that majorly used by soldiers who actually fighting in first line, the Jian you hold in this video is meanly for accessories use. There are some Jian has been used in the battlefield, but those are long swords, some of the long sword’s blade can be 1.3m - 1.7m long, majorly used by elite soldiers to against cavalry. Out side the battlefield, short Jian has been used by nobles and scholars as their self-defense weapon, so oftentimes they were made light and thin, easy to carry, and well-decorated.
Super late comment, and also purely layman speculative. But from the limited amount of king Fu I studied in my youth, the sword forms using the jian all seemed to predominantly work towards stabbing as the main means of attack. Slashing happened, but was comparatively rare. Interesting video. Thanks for the insight and comparison.
In the han dynasty, officers and gentleman used the jian, the rank and file footmen and riders used the zhibeidao (straight back saber). the straight back dao (example: www.mandarinmansion.com/images/chinese/pattern-welded-zhibeidao/pattern-welded-zhibeidao.jpg) seems like a mostly chopping weapon, but it wasn't the "broadsword" kind of falchion like dao that one is probably imagining, that's slightly anachronistic. the straight back saber had different variants of course, and some i believe were two handed. Hengdao (horizontal sabers) are a later development but similar. In the next few dynasties (up until Song), the more broadsword type dadao (big saber) was developed, as well as the very long zhanmadao (horse fighting saber), the changdao (long saber), which are the ancestors of the 20th century miaodao (sprout saber). These were generally two handed more specialized kinds of sabers. The more clip point falchion like design starts popping up in this era, I would imagine for single edge blades as well. Through this period, the jian retains its status as the gentleman officer's weapon. The yuan dynasty (the mongol dynasty) ended the jian's use for good. The mongol's introduced the kind of saber that english speakers would identify as a true "saber" (I've been translating "dao" into "saber" for convenience but that's not a perfect translation of course since dao covers what english speakers would consider sabers, but also falchions, and also any two handed single edged sword), and the use of these sabers by officers and gentlemen. Even after the mongols were overthrown, the military of the Ming dynasty continued to use the liuyedao (willow leaf saber) and the yanmaodao (goose quill saber) for officers. Officers, even of infantry, are generally on horseback probably, so it makes sense to have a good cutting weapon. the willow leaf saber was a bit more curved, the goose quill saber was more of a straight back affair, but either way they were cut and thrust sabers, a lot of technique apparently carries over from the old jian. It makes sense, both designs look relatively thrust-y (for sabers especially), probably had the same weight and balance as older jian. So the yuan dynasty marked the end of the active development and innovation of the jian, which is probably why the jian seems much more reminiscent of early medieval and late roman swords. They were on parallel development tracks, and then the jian stopped developing more, with its role as an officer's sidearm being replaced by the more higher quality saber-like dao. To be sure i've seen lots of pics of dao from this era and after that seem to have the sort of general shape as a goose quill dao, but are much heavier, chop focused, and "munitions" quality; such as a dao from the boxer rebellion that Matt showed in a previous video from ages ago. The modern kung fu stereotypical dao, the niuweidao (cow tail saber) was a development of I believe the Qing or at earliest the Ming dynasty. I'm sort of theorizing off the seat of my pants here, but I would imagine that the european arming sword and the subsequent long sword, were developed with more of a focus towards elite feudal knights fighting each other (even if the design trickled down into the rank and file soldiers hands in lower quality versions), thus the emphasis on armor piercing. Chinese armies, from pretty much the late bronze/early iron age Warring States Period forward, were large state sponsored government armies reminiscent of the way today's militaries are structured (much ahead of europe in this regard). The well armored officers and gentlemen would rarely directly fight each other (dueling to settle disputes was not a thing). So officers generally needed something that was more general purpose, and probably being better to use from horseback was a big plus. The armor issued to even the more heavier, better trained, rank and file soldier (pbs.twimg.com/media/DkH9wxUV4AAg7lV.jpg:large) didn't have mail in it, and the gaps around the armpits, elbows, groin, and face are still exploitable by most decently thrust capable swords, so the goose quill and willow leaf sabers probably do just fine in a pinch (they are sidearms anyways, for officers who would see little direct combat in anger).
I've always loved the look of the jian! How much does that example weigh? Is that representative of historic examples? Edit: 880g --> I followed the link I didn't look for in the description. Doh! Second question still stands. :)
Actually, no one would wield a sword as a primary weapon in a battle. Ancient Chinese warriors are experts in ranged weapons and spears. The Jian(let's just say sword cause 剑 just means sword in Chinese) mostly is a symbol for the gentleman, which presents virtue. They might duel with these swords cause you must be agile and precise to parry and thrust so it is pretty good for a martial show(although it could be really brutal). And the weapon was designed to make users easily change their posture by using wrist, so the move always looks like dancing. For poor people and police back in that time, they usually use 刀(basically cleaver, also means knives in the same symbol) cause you do not have to receive a huge amount of training to use 刀, just smash that piece of steel on your foe. In comparison, amateurs with swords always cut themselves when doing some tricks. Thank you for this video, love from China!
"Ancient Chinese warriors are experts in ranged weapons and spears." -- Actually, almost universally, spears are the main weapons in most culture. Easy to make, cheap to make, easy to train.... There were several demonstration. Most people who are barely trained with a spear can even beat people who trained in swords for years.
but of course they were still side arms so they probably were used semi often in battle though, right? i mean, people dont bring things they arent going to use a little, even if its only 10% of the time
if it helps, there's a Chinese saying where the jian is a gentleman's/scholarly weapon, whereas the dao is the weapon of a general. iirc on the battle field the superior chopping power of the dao is preferred
I was about to type that, yep it was a class thing (From what I understand) with at least early more formal schools for the upper classes teaching sword (jain) over saber (dao) bit like 19th century courts vs military or earlier grunts. Also one might switch from court or city - jain to battlefield dao like rapier or hanger to cut and thrust or saber in the field. Er I think.
Yes, the jian is the gentleman of weapons, one of the four great weapons along with the dao, the general of weapons. The spear, the king of weapons. And the staff, the grandfather of weapons.
Chinese Jian was used as main weapon in bronze age and the main way of attack was stab not cut because bronze are soft. During that time the nobles are the majority of military and they have the resource to make a good sword. You can check the Sword of Goujian (made around 510 BC) which represent the golden age of swords in ancient China. In iron age the war in China became more cruel and larger in scale. Nobles became commander who no longer fight in the front line and large amount trained common people as solders don't have the money to make good weapons. Government needs weapons cheap, easy to made in bulk and easy to maintain. Dao (Chinese single blade sword) and spears made in cast iron has been approved most suitable during the war with nomadic people in Han Dynasty which cause Jian lost its position in military. Actually spears was the most used weapon in military in China. Jian as a tradition still been used as ceremony tools in nobles but became more and more gorgeous and lighter but not actually suitable real war anymore. Out of the military there are still battle skills left from ancient time using Jian have been passed down to recent days which we can see from Kong-Fu movies. But those movie are mostly on one to one fight, not large scale war. In Europe and Japan because of the type and scale of war, nobles (knights and samurais) were still need to fight directly which made their swords can develop further as real weapon and they have the money and time to make a good weapon for themselves. Those swords are easier to keep to nowadays because they are around 2000 years newer than the time when Chinese made good quality swords as war weapons.
My understanding of the Chinese jian is that at some point in time, likely around the Eastern Han dynasty, it was replaced by dao as the practical combat weapon, and became a status symbol and decorative item. It was often romanticized in fiction probably due to it being loved by the educated elite; the scholars, poets, and writers. It was depicted as the weapon of choice for the more elegant characters (almost always the hero) while the dao, which was the practical weapon used by the actual soldiers, got depicted as the weapon of the brute.
This is something that may have been true for a period of time, but not the full picture. Jian were common militia weapons in the late Qing and early republican, and Dao were common among the Qing nobility
From what I've read during some periods it was certainly a civilian weapon, akin to a rapier or a smallsword. Might have been worn ceremonially as well, but there are certainly a lot of martial arts that focus on the Jian as a dueling weapon. "It wasn't used on the battlefield so it was mostly decorative/ceremonial" is a really oversimplified way of looking at things.
@@kidthorazine dueling was never really a thing in China. There may be some isolated instances, but outside fantasy novels, it was never really a part of the culture as it was in the west. So the jian was never really optimized for that. The use of Jian in martial arts were less martial and more performance art. Again, there may have been some accomplished individuals who chose to use the jian for combat, but they were the exception rather than the rule. The Jian just hasn't been centre stage as the common combat weapon for a long time, so there wasn't enough demand to improve it as one. Instead, it became more of a small sword equivalent. (The gentlemen's weapon) There are other theories, such as how Chinese jian martial arts do more parries than binds... but that seems to me more like an necessity than a choice... since dao has a disk guard and they are used for binds. Yes, there might be more to the story, but I just wanted to explore the primary reason for jian's evolution (or lack there of) instead of shooting off in a tangent. :)
You are probably right. Here's a practical Chinese weapon: www.galerienicolasfournery.com/wp-content/uploads//2016/05/kangxi-hunt-chinese-porcelain-blue-1000x664.jpg
@@Sifuben Qing is a bit of a special case. Being the external invading culture. Their primary combat method of choice is the mounted archer whose sword is closer to the saber than the traditional dao or jian. They did absorb the han culture later on, but by than, firearms had started taking over the battlefield, so it was too late for the jian to receive any further development.
Carry a Jian=nobleman Carry a Dao=soldier/outlaw I found it on multiple readings that when a chinese feudal lord attend the court or any ceremony, he would not take his battle sword with him, but a ritual sword (i.e. a Jian all right, never a Dao), which looks much better for all the crazy decorations, wood carvings, metalworks, jewellery, tassels and so on. This makes sense to me and when u spot a Jian that looks overly decorated (99% of them are btw), seems to me a sign for ritual purpose.
There are more plain Jian that were used throughout chinese history, and even though the Dao slowly replaced it sometime during the Han Dynasty (mostly because of cost), the Jian still continued to see military use all the way up to the Qing Dynasty. You are right that the overly decorated ones were mostly ceremonial, but you see ceremonial versions of plenty of practical weapons.
Yeah the overly decorated ones were for decoration purposes, ie ritual, wall or personal decoration in civil society, but there are also mass produced lower quality versions meant to "do the work" on the streets or battlefield.
11:55 now that would be an interesting topic for a video. I know next to nothing about Mongolian swords. Everything I do know comes from films , which we all know are completely historically accurate, 100%.
I have been trying to find illustrations or examples of mongolian swords online for years. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find verifiable Mongol blades? Mostly Ive found chinese swords that on one website are listed as Chinese and on another, the same exact picture of the sword, listed as Mongolian. I realise there was a lot of overlap of cultures as the mongols spread the empire through other countries but is there a specific Mongol type? Any help is greatly appreciated.
@@SuperOtter13 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kyGgx0ogTrw.html pisaries.blog/2018/04/08/genghis-khan-part-two/ genghiskhan.fieldmuseum.org/ took me years to find all this
I've waited for this day. *Pent up excitement explodes* Would love a comparison of pole-arms. Japanese naginata and the Chinese pudao compared to European spears and pikes,etc.
it should be compared not to european spears and pikes as chin/japanese had those too, but it should be compared to european glaive which is basically the same weapon as naginata/pudao but it's from europe.
I think I should preface these comments by saying that I am a 40 year practitioner of Chinese martial arts. At the height of its evolution, the Jian was - despite its configuration (straight blade and double edge with a point) not specifically a thrusting weapon. Nor was it meant to be a blade on blade weapon. Jian technique is characterized by large circular movements and subtle and numerous slicing cuts. Defensive movements are done by interception and redirection rather than parry and reposte. This would’ve been very different than the technique of the Dao, or broadsword. There’s an old saying in Chinese martial arts that the Jian is like a phoenix flying aloft while the Dao is like a tiger slashing with its claws
Jian is not really a warfare weapon after HAN DYNASTY because Dao(single edge chinese sword) take over its places .It is more likely a declaration, civilian self defense weapon(especially TAOIST MONK) and a symbol of statues. The way of using the jian is quite different to dao and European sword, Redirect and Parry with the first 2/3 of the blade, Intercepting wrist and forearm, using the advantage of relatively agile blade to dodge opponents attack and counter with some wired angle.... Those are the major tactic using this sword in my knowledge. There are much to talk about jian-fa(way of using jian) if you are interest you can look for 三才劍, 武當對劍, 青萍劍, 螳螂劍....you can really find some interesting stuff and the usage of jian there. Jian is the 百器之君, 短兵器之王 (weapon of a gentleman, king of short weapon) there are much to talk about, my knowledge is limited and my English too. I will try to answer the question all you have within my ability and i hope there will be a better guy to share and let me learn more.
Many soldiers still used the Jian after the Han. It just wasn't as common. Especially after Japanese pirates burned many if the manuals during the Tang. But they were still used for fighting.
The chinese jian fa is kind of impractical. It emphasise more on flourishes than actual combat. Some of the moves in the manuals are laughable, it teaches the wielder to do splits and fight standing on 1 leg.
TentaclePentacle What you described are made up bull shit that have more in common with circus dancing that actual martial arts. Anything called “Wushu” is just that, made up bullshit originated from early 20th century street performance. Real sword manuals from 16th century don’t teach people backflip 360 degree no scope lightsaber dance.
Most manual scripts for swords are just that dancing. Real sword fighting techniques are really rare. There is however a lot of spear fighting manual scripts that seem to be really practical.
I LOVE the jian. It's easily one of my favorite types of sword from a purely aesthetic standpoint. They're beautiful weapons, and they're absolutely gorgeous in motion when employed in traditional Chinese martial arts. I feel like the jian doesn't get nearly as much love as it deserves in pop culture outside of wuxia films, at least compared to something like the katana. Just as a side note: I don't hate the katana either. I've noticed there's a bit of a pushback against the katana among sword enthusiasts in response to it's excessive popularity, but I think katana can be quite beautiful as well. I just feel like they're a bit over-appreciated compared to something like the jian or the Korean hwando (itself rather similar to the katana.) Also, in general, swords are way over appreciated compared to the true kings of the battlefield: polearms.
This maybe folklore: this dual sided straight blade is more of a “surgical” weapon by refined users and scholars. The tip 1/3 should be sharp for slicing and thrusting. The mid 3rd is dull for parrying work. The lowest 3rd to the hand guard is blunt for direct blocking and other abuse that would destroy a sharp edge. Also, the blunt part can be used to smack an enemy instead of making them bleed out of their major vein. You will never let the razor sharp front 3rd to parry nor block any strike if you can help it. The guard and the length of blade is northern Chinese. Wider open space dictate longer reach of northern environment. The shorter blades are favoured in the south where there’s more city and closed space. The guard is northern, it’s “swept forward” allow for more “trapping” or “control delay trap” techniques. Your example is one of the less pronounced “forward swept” guard I’ve seen. The southern guard is swept back, allowing the user to parry or slip pass weapons and get close to the opponent. Again, the above could be romanticised folklore or reality. It could be “modern” (1800s) reality after +500y of martial art evolution and thousands of years of military evolution.
the floppy TV swords are, used historically in chinese operas for the purposes of: 1. the sound. it's like how they use a sheet of steel in operas of other regions to produce a thunderous noise. makes it sound powerful and intimidating and flashy. 2. the flashiness. as it bends and flops around, it takes up a bigger area and becomes harder for the audience to follow, which shows off how "skilled" the wielder is. so tv drama these days just maintained that same old tradition. that's not necessarily a researched fact, but more of what I gather from people who do operas and historical drama
There's some practical purpose for the thin "floppy" swords as training weapons, too. If the technique is done well, they won't flop around as much; if they do, it's a sign of bad or unrefined technique and helps identify areas of improvement. The concept was briefly touched upon in the movie "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", when Li Mu Bai is offering (for the umpteenth time) to teach the uppity young girl, Jen. The Green Destiny is a quite flexible ("floppy") sword, and Mu Bai talks about "hold[ing] it in stillness" (which if you pay attention, throughout the whole movie Jen NEVER holds it without it wobbling at least a bit; this scene was no exception). Yes, I know movies are never 100% accurate, but that concept at least is rooted in reality.
The way I learned to use them is that the distal 1/3rd should be very sharp for cutting and thrusting. The proximal third mildly sharp to dull for deflecting. The middle was user preference. The techniques involved emphasis on good footwork and nicking the hands and forearms quickly in an attempt to disarm the opponent at a distance. Then the piercing came in, targeting the torso or thighs. There are some strong power techniques, but the design of the blade and the way I learned to hold it lend themselves well to more speed techniques. Quick flicks and darting pokes. Power and speed being generated by the legs and waist, just like the empty hand methods. I was taught that the sword is an "extension of the mind." So the techniques should flow from one to the next as quickly as our thoughts do. Not committing until the kill strike, if at all. I think the guards are thin because some schools advocate for placing the index finger on the spine for added control. I don't do this. I wasn't trained to do this. I think this is a stupid risk. There are guard styles that have up curved guards which are more practical than the style featured here. Another thing is that some schools of jian play advocate for keeping the scabbard in the left hand during fighting. This would be used to deflect or attack as need be. This may be a throw back to the shield use you suggest, which does make sense. Though I've only ever seen a dao used with a shield, never a jian. I do appreciate that you chose one with a more realistic spine. Many of today's wushu jian's are flimsy pieces of junk. I'd rather take a flyswatter into a fight than one of them. But the one you have looks to be good quality.
Based on Chinese martial arts techniques that have been handed down over hundreds of years, I doubt that the Jian was used in combination with a shield very often, if ever. (Dagger was used with a woven bamboo shield). Also, as someone else said below, literary records show it was primarily carried as a sidearm by nobility and generals. Many of the martial techniques preserved in Jian forms are aimed at slicing or cutting the hand or arm of your sword wielding opponent, to make him lose his weapon. Of course there are thrusting techniques too if you want to finish him after you have disarmed him. Because it was carried by nobility and generals it often was probably used in the way dueling pistols were used later in Europe. In a duel disarming and injuring is sometimes better than killing. The primary sword used on the battlefield by soldiers was the Dao, or Chinese "big knife", or broadsword, which as a slashing and hacking weapon was easier and faster to teach to the masses of soldiers who were primarily conscripted peasant farmers. The intricate dueling technique and strategy associated with the Jian was considered too "refined" and to take too long to teach to be practical for the common soldiers. Zhang San Feng, a Taoist scholar, magistrate, martial artist and Dao Yin practitioner born during the Southern Song Dynasty, is often credited as being the originator of Tai Ji Quan (and White Crane, and a few other martial arts) and also the originator/developer of much of the Jian technique currently practiced in Tai Ji Jian and other "internal" styles that practice Jian forms. These forms are probably the best record of how the Jian was actually used, since they have been passed down from master to student, generation after generation.
More specifically, dao literally means "knife", and the Chinese consider anything with just one primary edge to be a knife regardless of context. It's very specific.
Excellent video! Prior to beginning my HEMA training, I spent a couple of years studying Shaolin Kung Fu. During that time, received some instruction in the use of the jian. It is one of my favorite sword types. The spatulate thrusting tip allows for thrusts that create large entry and exit wounds. This concept, and the method of thrusting used to achieve these wounds, were emphasized in the training that I received. I have a Shenlong jian from Longship Armoury that I have done a little cutting with. It cuts very well. I'll do some more cutting with it and write a review in the next few weeks. I'm looking forward to your review of this Dynasty Forge sword :-)
I'm learning Chinese sword fighting. The jian is meant to make small cuts to incapacitate the opponent. Cuts to the arteries, nerves and the tendons are quite easy. Long cuts are also common, but in my experience chopping a limb of is near impossible. Punctures are in a lot of techniques as well. I have a couple of jians in my collection. The training swords are very well balanced, the cheap pattern welded blades from China are beautiful but handle like heavy metal bars. If yours is any good, I will check it out.
Jack Chen, Swordsage, and Scott Rodell should be able to tell you more about the history of the jian and how it was used. When dealing with something you're not familiar with, it's always good to consult multiple people who have some knowledge about it.
Fair enough. I just like sideswords, and would appreciate more sidesword content, lol. If you ever get an Albion Doge or some other reproduction (as opposed to just the Kvetun), let us know.
The particular example you have is more like a Ming dynasty or later age jian. Historically after Tang dynasty (618-907AD), single handed jian really is more like a symbolic self-defence weapon, they can cut very well thanks to the blade thickness (POB) and stiffness(in fact not much worse than a katana), but as mentioned below, you are mostly correct they are more thust oriented... Before Tang dynasty, double handed longsword (Han dynasty swords can be as long as 140cm total, blade length 110cm, with actual artifacts exists) did used as weapon in war, but still spear and polearms were the dominant weapons... In regards to Jian in Ming dynasty, they usually refers to "Royal related" symbolic use, high ranking officers or Generals would carry Jian, but middle or lower ranking soldiers all using various saber or Messer etc... Jian were very rare to use with shield (quite different from what has been expected), but Dao did often used with Shields...At the age of Ming Jian being used, Ming army already widely adopted to firearms, cannon, muskets..hand cannons etc.was formally issued...so Jian or swords really play very little in hand to hand combats, except among gangs and civilians usage.... On the other hand..the usage of Jian is quite different from Western culture...in chinese, they were trained to defend their sword holding hand in the same move of various offense and defense, ie they force you to defend instead of giving you chance to hit their hands, or sometimes it intended to give the hand to you as a fake target, when you attacks it, they move away the hand then hit your opening... The hand protection issue in Chinese swordmanship is an interesting topic, which from origin mind set they are different from Europe systems..
One more fact.. In fact the Jian holding General or High ranking officers in the field.. their Jians will have more chance to be used to kill their own soliders as discipline punishment , or to commit suicide by cutting their own throat... instead of having sword sparring with their opponents... Those Jian holding person in a Ming dynasty army would be so high ranking...if it was down to himself to be needed to fight hand to hand, it was equal as they already lost the battle with no chance of surviving...... It just a functional piece of symbolic clothing more like it's a weapon... (Ming dynasty, civilians was not allowed to carry weapons, if you carry a weapon, you were already a outlaw)
3:00 That has to do with the fact that most of them are Wuxia movies. Its a special fantasy genre. Wuxia is more realistic than Xianxia or Xuanhuan. Wuxia is usually Martial Heroes, people that can achieve near superhuman feats via training. Then you have Xianxia, which is the Immortal Heroes genre, where you have people learn how to fly on swords and the like. And then there is Xuanhuan, which is about Mysticism and the like. Xianxia can have demons and ghosts in them tho. The main difference between Xianxia and Xuanhuan is that Xianxia is pretty much pure Chinese Mythology and Folklore while Xuanhuan has foreign elements to it (so basically Xianxia you have the hopping vampires, while Xuanhuan could have Dracula). There is of course more to it, and its a complex subject. But thats basically it in a nutshell and abbreviated. Most Martial Arts movies are Wuxia, which means they are still fantasy with superhuam feats. Special blades and people that can run on water and the like, even if its doesn't quite go into this direction the people would still have strongly exaggerated features and abilities. Larger than life.
The jian's design and usage heavily depends on the timeperiod. During the Spring and Autumn to most of the Warring States era, the jians were broad and more similar to Roman gladius swords. During the end of the Warring States era to Han era, jians became thin and long, similar to narrower high middle ages swords. Skallagrim made a recent video with Swordsage regarding Han era jians. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ISDXZZWCRw4.html After the Han Dynasty/3K/4th cent. Jin Dynasty era, the jian no longer became a common weapon for the rank and file troops. Before and during these eras, the jian would have been a fairly common battlefield weapon for rank and file troops (though crossbows and polearms would be much more common).
Those "fantasy like" weapon designs came from the traditional 京劇 and other opera-like stage actings. Those are basically props. So they were designed to be more exaggerated, colorful, and also not practical, because civilians were not allowed to carry actual battlefield weapons at the time.
To my knowledge, the Jians did develop in parallel with the Spatha and Gladius with similar development functions and ideas. But at some point, towards the end of the Han Dynasty during the Three Kingdom periods, the Jian probably fell out of favour with the scarcity of iron and the ready availability of wood made more economic sense to craft more Jis, Ges and Qiangs. By the Tang Dynasty, the Jian probably started to look more and more like the Jian we see today. Daos were more favoured by that period with the shield-jian combination being superseded with more specialized Dao or Polearms, with cavalry action being more prominent in those periods rather than heavy infantry. The Jian on the other hand, became more of a civilian oriented side arm weapon much like the backsword and the smallsword rather than a primary battlefield weapon, yet another parallel that you pointed out. One thing to point out that is probably something you wouldn't be familiar with is how the Jian is commonly used. While the jian may have the capability to get through lamellar weapons as it would have been mostly used for duels or fighting unarmoured opponents in civilian settings. You're correct about Fantasy Wuxia movies, which seem to use the Jian for cutting and thrusting a lot in ways that wouldn't be used. The Jianfa is more oriented to winding and binding, thrusting, and slicing rather than cutting. Generally speaking, what we see in those lovely old Taichi movements would be translated to parry, wind, thrust, and then slicing the opponent (usually on their sword arm) as you withdraw, mostly to disarm. Much of the Jian techniques I have seem mostly oriented to attacking the opponent's swordarm rather than to actually attempt to kill, which is in line with growing Neo-Confucian influence in the later Dynasties and the rise of the Jian as a "Gentleman's (Junzi's) Weapon"
I think that the changes in jian techniques probably had more to do with it as a martial arts weapons (for sport essentially) and less of a weapon for war or self defense.
Dueling and Warfare are extremely different. Our modern Tai Chi Jian Fa has it's basis in historical sword forms that has been passed down for hundreds of years. There are still masters around that know the functions of the movement we see performed by old people in the park. In many ways, the rote learning of the Tai Ji Jian movement over the generations has preserved in movement a manuscript of stances and movement that we can use to reconstruct historical jianfa.
Similarity due to function. Weightage of handle plus crossguard. Less developed armor early days. Thus permitting sword versatility. Less practical after armor evolution. More focused cleavage required for effect.
13:25 You are obsessed with hand protection.In period it was not a primary consideration. A jian, being a back up weapon, would have been used by armoured people in war. As a civilian self defence weapon, the owners were more concerned with ease of carry, ease of access,than hand protection. How many times are you liable to get in a fight, in a civilised society? Of those, how many times will you draw your sword? Just because some labourer wit ha cart cut you off, it doesn't follow you will draw and threaten the poor man.You may call him and his while family nasty names, but hat's as far as it goes. Civilian self defence works better as a deterrent. If carrying a sword around made it less likely to be attacked, you carry a sword around. You don't really expect to use it, its a deterrent just by its presence. If you have to use it ...you have way more serious problems than a cut in the hand no one will attempt in a real fight. Small target , difficult to hit, usually behind a sword.. the arm is a more easy target. The body definitely, the hand not so much. You are not sparring , you are not duelling, this is a brawl. You block the sword, you kick, punch ,scratch, knee the other in the groin if you can. You are fighting for your life, wounds are irrelevant until you are safe. Then they begin to hurt.
Chinese sword is base on user's abilities some are designed for speed and quick so not too thick nor too heavy, some short swords are use two hand swords, long heavy sword is for strong body mobilities to swing around 2 meters body round most it good bodyguard user for against calvary and for short distance radius for protect someone with numbers of long swords user. Shield dont often use when face to face battle... shield mostly are used in battle field from arrows. But in some cases there is some wushu that use sword and shield together but not with JIAN. Chinese use DAO（a moon curve shape of sword) with SHIELD. JIAN dont fit with shield in chinese wushu. JIAN is about flexibilities movement and speed.
oh - I make jian. I am a blademsith. There were a lot of cuts that targeted hands, wrists, arms, etc. So, cutting was important but target selection was careful and there were not shields. Jian were for gentleman to protect themselves. They were a tad thicker than Viking-type blades but not a whole lot (1/16") thicker. I really dislike making the guards, but they are necessary and functional. Dao are more fun to make, but they both are great. I really don't think there were shields used often with them. Those who have taught me about them never mentioned shields, and actually told me that shields were used rarely (I asked). Sorry that I am not agreeing with you....
These type of ‘gentlemen’ or ‘girly’ sword were only worn by officers and martial scholars in off duty or ceremony event. Not for battle certainly. Battlefield readied Chinese Jian will be wider and longer. Also it would be designed for 2 hand use and a round disk shape hand guard without much decor. Main Chinese armor during this period will be metal lamellar and also brigandine armor.
you come across as quite the sword expert but you call this as "jan" its a fucking "jian"-that is pronunced "G-UN" precisely what else have you got wrong?
Jian techniques practiced in Chinese martial arts today are a mix of fast thrusts, cuts, and circular parrys, that seem to be more in line with duelling than fighting an armoured opponent, probably a legacy of the early modern period. I'm a practitioner btw, but certainly not an expert.
A Chinese sword is light and flexible and lightning-fast and leaves no shadow behind it nor does it dazzle to betray its presence. A European sword is clumsy.
My only problem with this video is that you take the view that apparently it never changed. Which is massively ahistorical. Jian & dao both changed massively throughout history. Before the Yuan dynasty all daos were straight single edged swords. The Jian during the han dynasty were much broader than later jian designs. I don't understand why this is so hard to do. You need to contextualise much much better. You just seem really ignorant when talking about this stuff.
On the subject of asian swords, I hope Dynasty Forge send you their Thousand Sparrow tachi. I never see tachis, especially of that blade shape, discussed.
This type if jian form the 19th and early 20 century are very similar to European smallsword, proportion and use. It is more a status symbol than a weapon itself. Yes, it is specialized thrusting sword, and if you look at Chinese sword manuals, you will find many rapier-like techniques. There is a type of late jian, Wudang jian, which is longer than the typical jian, as long as the rapier. Taiji sword (taichi sword) techniques are all about "binden-winden". The cuts, if any, are targeted mainly to the hand. There are 19 cen. jian with fullers, and if you look at museum examples 1000 years or more ago, you will see straight swords with fullers, the so called zhan jian (war sword). There is also shuang shou jian, or da zhan jian, which is almost the same as the European longsword. Dao became the predominant weapon used in the army at the time of Yuan and Ming dynasties. And no, late jian was not used with shields, it was a nobility weapon, a dueling weapon, a "weapon of honor", as it was called in Europe. Early jian from Han and Tang dynasties were used with shields.
Your opening statement is fundamentally untrue. Smallswords are very light dedicated thrusting weapons. Jian are not light cut and thrust weapons. The heavy spadroons with blades approaching Highland broadswords are a better analogue, or indeed as Matt says sideswords or even straight infantry sabres. The usage in the Republican era manuals is very much cut and thrust.
My understanding is that jian is a common nobles weapon before East Han. In ancient feudal China, nobles are expected to have six talents, including the art of bow and jian. After iron became popular in China, military start to replace jian with dao because it's better cutting edge. Jian become rather like a badge which shows the authority of the owners, usually nobles and military NCOs. Sorry for my poor grammar 😥, nice video!
this is very late period jian their design is nothing to do with armor and most of jian is just for looking cool and some relation with taoism except han dynasty era which was chinese extensively use two handed (small long sword like) jian
s ss One hand sword were used with shield on the battlefield in Ming dynasty around 15-16 centuries. I can post the photo evidence if you don’t believe me. It’s only in Qing dynasty that Juan became a complete statue symbol and the army fielded sabers (dao) almost exclusively
Tbh the Jian was like a rapier in almost everyway. With the exception of the Jians used for war, those Jian blades were almost as wide as a Roman Gladius.
Da Sword Of Gork not really though. Chinese people didn’t seemed to have duelled as much in peaceful times. I know he said Jian was mostly carried by nobles but that’s not completely true. It was mostly carried by people who were either trying to pass or have already passed the national exam to become a government official. As in people who would never even think to fight let alone going around and challenging people to duels. Yes you do become sort of like nobility once you’ve passed the exams and your title can be inherited by your chosen heir(with reduced level every generation so it’s better if they do the exams themselves instead). However, these nobles are taught to be as peaceful as possible. Their jobs are mostly desk bounded.
Depends on the timeframe. Warring States era jians were similar to Roman Gladius. Han Dynasty era jians were long and thin like high middle ages long swords. After the Han Dynasty/3K/4th cent. Jin Dynasty eras, the jian was no longer used as a common battlefield weapon by the rank and file.
Confucius served in the military as an archer and fought in many battles. After he retired, him and his students were well dressed and carried their swords wandering around most of China to preach their philosophy...
I don't think the design has much to do with the armor used throughout history because the Chinese sword is not a war weapon. Pole weapons are cheaper and far more effective on the battlefield, not to say the vast majority of Chinese martial arts somewhat emphasizes on pole weapons along with other aspects, and the great spear is also referred to as the "king of weapons". To say the sword's functional usage, it's more like a duel weapon similar to what you would expect of a rapier or the Japanese uchigatana off the battlefield. Although they can still be brought to the battlefield, it's probably used more as a last resort. Also the so called ancient Japanese sword is called tsurugi (剣) which the word is originated from the word jian (劍 traditional font) so yes it's pretty much the same thing.
In the Vietnamese martial art tradition, which I suspect to be very much similar to that of the Chinese, the sword is not used for hacking or hack-cutting as demonstrated in the video. Instead, its narrow form and hilt-ward center of gravity allow the user to maneuver the edge to vulnerable places of the opponent's body: the wrists and ankles where the tendons can be sliced, the inside of the elbows and knees where arteries can be sliced, and even armpits and thighs. Whereas Western sword-fighting techniques aim for the head, neck, and torso to kill, Eastern techniques, as far as I am aware, aim to discapacitate or maim the opponent before going for the kill.
Good video, there are not too many people on RU-vid doing reviews on Chinese Weapons. The Jian was not used with a shield together because it is not a battled field weapon. Although a General could carry one just to show that he is high ranking... It is mostly used by a wealthy person, or an educated scholar who wants to travel from one village to an other,,, This jian would be a weapon for personal protection. Back then, you can be robbed by thieves outside of the village... And yes, you are right about its techniques of being a slashing and thrusting weapon...
Those popular “ancient” and "culture" stuffs like Kungfury, Bushido or something others are not what they were really represent in the ancient time. The meaning is given in the modern days. The Chinese Jian (in the video) is a decoration for gentleman. Katana is for ceremonial sense for rule class. Both of them are a symbol of leadership compare to the weapons of war such as stick, spear and blade.
I would be interested if anyone could verify (or dismiss) my training with Jian blades. Quite a few years ago, I was told (by my non-Chinese instructors) that genuine ancient Jian blades had three sections that were sharpened and tempered quite differently. The base (1/3 closest to the hilt) was supposed to be relatively inflexible, blunt, and rigid. The middle third was intended to be stiff but sharp, and the third closest to the tip was to be very sharp and very flexible. This was to allow: blocking with the lower third, cutting/slashing with the middle third, and thrusting/flicking with the upper third. In fact, the Tai Chi form that I learned had the "death of a thousand cuts" flavor to it, because the attacks were flicks and thrusts rather than big sweeping slashes. All of the large movements in the form were for blocking (with the lower part of the blade) not for attack, and all the attacks favored the "flick" of the upper third. Anyone have any experience with this? I would genuinely like to compare notes and see if my understanding of the construction of the Jian blade is correct, or if this is historically or metallurgically nonsensical :-).
I have always been very skeptical of flexible blades. Reason 1: flexible tip can't penetrate thick clothing at all, it just bends. Trust me, I tried. I can hardly imagine a jian, having many thrusting techniques, to have been purposefully designed that way. 2. How to have proper edge alignment with a wobbly blade? Seem like it would be extremely detrimental to the cut if the tip flopped about.
Nice Video, but I suspect the Jian’s lack of guard has more to do with it’s status as a “gentlemen’s” weapon and reserved for commanders and duelists. It had a reputation for being a “scholars” weapon and thus was worn on the side much like a dress sword. The need for comfort might explain a “narrow” guard but I’ve seen some examples of Ming jians’ with disc guards which were likely used as battlefield weapons. As for use with shields, I haven’t seen any such recorded use post antiquity. A side note, it is commonly thought that the katana was an evolution of the Tang Dynasty straight backed dao. The use of such swords died out after the mongol invasion
Am I the only one here who is in total awe of the traditional Chinese sword forms or techniques from film. Never seen the equivalent. Clearly mastery of that shit took a lifetime.
From a perspective of an American who has studied and practised Chinese pugilism for decades, let me offer that the jian as weapon was not widely considered a common soldier's arm. As in many places and times, swords like a well-made jian would be costly to create and, judging by the long and intricate practice forms that have survived, very difficult to employ against other war arms. Thus, the jian in existing martial disciplines is taught as a defensive sidearm where most techniques are directed at combat with other swords (although, off the top of my head, I can remember 1 or 2 techniques in each form devoted to, say, turning aside a spear thrust or cutting an enemy horse's legs). Many Chinese war arts consider the proper use of the jian to be one of the highest martial virtues, this mainly because of the significant commitment to master the sword. I think that its difficulty of use is one reason that martial arts films (and many artists) employ combat-useless, spring steel props in performance. It's worth noting that the spear is often referred to as the 'Father' of weapons and that the jian is the 'Mother'. One last observation, I don't recall any jian combat forms where a shield was used and, remarkably for a straight blade, there are as many slicing, cutting, and chopping techniques as there are thrusts. Forgive me if any of these points have been previously made.
Interesting video. 40 years ago I was a student (kung fu). My teacher was a Chinese General's son, and extremely skilled and knowledgeable about all things Chinese martial arts. I have no idea how this was used long long time ago, but I was taught to use it as a cutting weapon. No hacking and some thrusting, but a lot of slicing spiral moves that would work in advance or retreat and attack from unexpected directions. Definitely not the thing to do against an armored opponent. I see that sort of style in a lot of Kung Fu movies, esp with women.
Yes, in later periods. As a civilian sidearm it would have benefited from the spadroon's hand protection though. Interesting to me that Matt looks at the weapon and sees its ancient origins as a practical tool of war while everyone else sees it through the lens of its role in recent Chinese culture.
Some problems I have with this video: 1) According to, among others, Adam Hsu and to my own research, that is not a good replica of jian - the crossguards on the old jians meant to be used to stab people are always (I have yet to sww an exception) slanted towards the hand, creating a ->----- shape instead of -
The Juan was not used it carried by soldiers. They were carried by highly trained masters usually by body guards if the Employer or other high ranking officials. Shields were not used with a Juan as they were made to be wielded quickly while moving into and around multiple opponents. One hand held the sword while the other would strike the opponent. Switching hands was another technique. The master swordsman/woman would employ every stance and posture in his or her repretoir.. kicks, punches, empty-hand strikes and grabs were employed while using the jian. That is why neither shields not enclosed guards were used. There was a Kung Fu saying: 100 hours to train the fists. 1000 hours to train with no staff. 10,000 hours to train with straight sword.
Juan is indeed a cut and thrust blade. In general most cuts are to the wrist, hand, or the face. A successful cut can often provide a great entrance for a thrust. In general you strike the first gate(hands) and work your way in.
a vortexing snapping back edge draw cut ( palm down forehand, palm up backhand ) with the flexible blade wrapping around the blade is a very effective attack to the hand.
Matt, stop reading my mind. I've been thinking about Chinese weapons for the past two weeks. What's next, a video on Korean swords from the early Joseon dynasty?
Sir Early Joseon dynasty weaponry was mainly centered on archery supplemented by spears for both infantry and cavalry. Due to the long period of peace until the Japanese invasion in the late 16th century & Neo Confucianisfc philosophies and politics, close combative martial arts were looked down upon and neglected - so sophisticated or extensive swordsmanship or polearm weaponry wasn't very prominent. Like for instance it was common for soldiers or officers to simply carry wakizashi or tanto sized blades because they thought swords were too heavy. Or heavy polearms such as halberd/poleaxe variants like the Guan Dao (Woldo in korean) not getting implemented until the late 16th ~ 17th century. If it wasn't for the powerful artillery or firearm tech that Koreans had, they would have been annhilated by Hideyoshi. Late Joseon era is where it gets interesting as far as swords or polearms go. And also their cavalry martial arts.
I haven’t studied many Chinese sword techniques during my kung fu studies, as there is a greater focus on staff, but what I have seen is that the Jian is typically used to make small precise cuts. A “Surgical” weapon, if that makes sense. Like instead of trying to make deep cuts, you’re trying to cut off bits of soft tissue, muscle, blood vessels, ect.
"Baller side sword" or a Balder side sword, according to Epic Name Bro.. I read from a Chinese source that said that those who practice the way of the jian practices the way of the kings. While a user of the dao practices the way of domination. In that way is it okay to assume that the Japanese sword which has characteristics of both the jian and the dao in that it is single edged and is mainly used for cuts but can also deliver thrusts. And that it is of a slender shape like the jian. The katana is like a combination of the jian and the dao.
Regarding a few concerns about ancient Eastern swordsmanship: A major problem with a lot of Eastern historical martial arts is that there are more stories than there are records, and a surprising number of the 'Eastern' martial arts that are still around were invented fairly recently (within the past 100 years). For example, Shotokan Karate only dates back to 1938, Aikido was cobbled together between the 1930s and 1960s, and Shaolin Kung-Fu, while legitimately ancient, was created and practiced by Buddhist monks--who were pacifists, not soldiers, and is generally considered in the rest of the martial arts world as being 'great for fitness, suicide for actual combat'. Sure, there are stories of the monks being roused to combat to fight tyranny of some sort or another, but those same accounts mention them twisting a dude's head from his body with his bare hands, so, you know, grain of salt. The kung-fu movies that you reference are technically called "wuxia pian"... but given the pronunciation issues, I think you're probably safe just calling them 'kung-fu' (even though, say, Jackie Chan movies are technically kung-fu movies, but not wuxia). Anyhow, those movies are based off of kung-fu (which, as I mentioned before, was created and practiced by people who literally didn't believe in violence), mixed with operatic representations of combat, and further stylized through liberal application of special effects to suit legends and ancient folklore. So you can't really blame them for being poor representations of actual historical combat. I haven't done too much searching into historical texts (mostly just researching the backgrounds and origins of martial arts), but if there aren't actual ancient training manuals in existence, then it's likely the real, combat-effective styles of military-caliber Eastern swordsmanship from the period is lost to the ages. Which is tragic, because while realistic sword fighting isn't as exciting as the five-point-palm-exploding-heart-technique, it *is* far more interesting. I wrote that out as an unnecessarily long reply to another comment, and realized it applied to a few questions, so I'm going to post it here.
The shaolin monks during Qing dynasty were not roused by tyranny. They just wanted action. Hence demolished an army the Qing Dynasty Generals did not want to engage, with just 120 odd monks. Actual martial practitioners in the east, (China/japan/korea/etc), Know Shaolin wasn't some joke.
Nice. A few things: Generally, the preferred attacks for jian are thrusts, percussive cuts, and draw cuts aimed at places like the wrists, joints, tendons, basically weak spots on the human body where damage to them can incapacitate or immobilize. In terms of usage, you can probably compare it to a rapier or arming sword. Something you can carry for self defense, but not exactly a battlefield weapon. There are larger versions that have broader blades and longer handles, however, that are carried into battle by military officers as a backup weapon. The longer ones can be as long as a European longsword and wielded with two hands. The one shown here is the one commonly carried by scholars, martial artists, and military officers in civilian settings. It's pretty light and convenient to carry for long periods of time compared to the broader, longer variations used during battle. The relative lightness also lends well to elaborate acrobatic manouvers which is why they are popular for wushu and kungfu demonstrations. The jian is never taught to be used with a shield in modern day, btw, unlike the dao, and I am not aware of any school that taught how to use a jian in conjunction with a shield in the past. It's also considered one of the more difficult weapons to master. Not as difficult as the "soft" weapons like, say, the chain whip, but it is considered more difficult than the dao. A person who has no idea how to use a weapon can do good damage just by chopping it around randomly, which will not work as well with a jian.
You are indeed correct sir. Taichi jian is an extension of the vortex movements of the body and the more adept the more flexible the blade can be. The culmination of a whole body vortex in the last 4 inches of a double edged point can achieve a flat cut - like a trough instead of a slice. It is designed to wrap around a stiff sword to attack behind the guard and cut the hand. No hand no fight.
Actually, jian ("swords") are always specifically double edged and dao ("knives") are always specifically single edged, not counting false edges. This is a apparently a peculiarity of Chinese terminology that goes all the way down to whether a blade is a dagger or say a kitchen knife. The same also applies to how they define foreign swords. Basically the Chinese consider anything with just one primary edge to be a knife, regardless of other context. There is actually a type of Chinese sword that looks almost exactly like a backsword jian with the same type of point and a false edge, and it was presumably used more or less the same way as a normal jian, but it's still considered a dao simply because it has a back.
Having done some Tai Chi Jian form work, the moves are actually small moves with what can be interpreted as quite precision tip cutting, as though you’re aiming for cutting at arteries and hitting vital spots.
Primary targets are wrists and shoulder/arm area, with perhaps an attack on the knee. The goal is to attempt cut/severe the tendons in the wrist, and the deltoids/upper trapazoid muscles and tendons. The knee attack is essentially an attempt to hamstring your opponent. Thrusts were aimed at the solar plexus, or over the sternum (downward thrust) as a finishing move.
Hi there. There are some features about Jian's feature that I wanna share. According to my experience, Jian usually has quite a distinct feature over medieval European swords is that it usually has a larger portion of its blade mass distributed in the front part. Or in other words, it has a different pattern in distal tapering. Maybe the pattern is more similar to those shown in Viking swords. The gradient of distal tapering is not big from guard to the "monouchi“-- Japanese term indicating the part of the blade that is usually served for striking; then after this very area, distal tapering runs quicker to balance the blade. Even in some case, when reaching close to the "monouchi” of Jian, the blade gets thicker to provide extra mass in the part. In a simpler way to describe, Jian usually has more mass in the front. Point of balance might be closer to the tip compared to European ones but it does not happen in every case. However, this of cause increases the difficulty for fencers to control a Jian. However, with this kind of feature, Jian makes Chinese fencers able to execute techniques like blade-hitting with the front part of Jian more successfully. In kinds of Jian discipline, blade-hitting (with flat or edge around the "monouchi") serves as the most preferable way to block an incoming cut by displacing opponent's blade with momentum exchange between the two the weapons. And by this means, vulnerable Jian-holding hand could be kept away from opponent's blade. As I believe the weapon design went parallel with fencers' techniques, narrower and thicker blade makes blade collision solid when executing the aforementioned technique of blade-hitting; a greater mass in front also serves in a similar means. Of course, a greater mass in front makes Jian more difficult to control, but it also increases the power of cutting. That's why Jian fencers of Kung-fu practisers would need to practice multiple ways of power generation to utilize such a weapon. This is only some ideas from me and my friends; some might sound strange. Feel free to ask~
I would certainly expect merchants and travellers plying the Silk Road to carry news of weapons development and changes to both ends of the road and all points in between. Therefore occasional similarities between blade and weapon designs should be no surprise.
The Metropolitan Museum of art had an excellent exhibit on crusader era Jerusalem which featured a carving of a European Knight holding a Jian. So it wasn't just rumors of sword designs that were exchanged it was actual swords from time to time.
That looks like an entirely reasonable length of handle. Most of the Jian on Sinosword.com, which seems to have better quality blades for a lower price than other websites that sell jian, have much longer handles than that. Interesting that Matt notes the handle was mostly unchanged over millenia -- are the reproductions on Sinosword inaccurate, or were there periods in which the handle was indeed much longer?
Just as with European swords, the length of the hilt varied (even within the periods) depending on the maker and quite probably the wishes of the person who commissioned the weapon. Most usually (but not always), the jians with longer hilts also came with longer blades. But by the time we get to late period jians, they became status symbol weapons (often referred to as 'scholar's swords') and typically had shorter hilts and blades. The sinoswords repros look pretty close to authentic.
Jian changed quite a bit depending on the period. I am certainly not an expert on Jian typology but from what I have seen that general style of Jian starts to appear with the Ming dynasty. I'm talking general though, that Jian is very clearly Qing design. that said no they are not unchanged, it's like saying European straight swords have all remained the same since the end of the Roman Republic. As for longer handles, they could vary. The handles on normal sized Jian were sometimes made longer to give the possibility of grabbing with the second hand for more powerful two handed cuts. (ie often not full two handed handles but at least handles that would allow the top two fingers of the second hand to grab with the rest holding the pommel.) But it's a general category of sword and China is a huge area. Although among the Han Chinese there doesn't seem to be a lot of regional variation in Jian. But there could be a fair amount or variation between individual swords. I mean really you see a fair amount of variation even in the most common sword types in any area of the world. There were also specifically two handed Jian with longer handles. However more common were Jian with slightly longer blades that had long two handed grips but were still balanced in a way to allow relative ease of use with one hand. (as opposed to true two handed Jian that were balanced for two handed use) As for the question about the Jian on Sinosword. Well the later period Jian look relativelly traditional or some of them do anyway. But I assume you are talking about the cutting jian they have. Yes there were Jian like that with longer handles. They weren't really common either. The "Affordable Jian Sword" they have on that site is probably overall going to be the best representation of what Jian would have looked like during the Qing dynasty that you will find on there. The thing to understand is that their cutting jian is basically supposed to be a knockoff version of the cutting jian designed by Scott Rodell. He intentionally put a longer handle on his jian so that, while balanced for single hand use, it could be used with two handed techniques so it would usable to people in the widest variety of styles possible. They appear to maybe even have a slightly longer handle on theirs than on his, although that's just judging from the picture. Scott Rodell's cutting Jian is an excellent sword which I love (although personally I do prefer the feel of a shorter handle).
@@TeaSerpent No not just their cutting jian, their other jian mostly have even longer handles. For example their Upgraded Han Jian, I've considered purchasing in the past with the modification of getting extra length on it so I can use it as a Bagua jian rather than a Taiji jian and can treat it more as a longsword. But I recently got a Sikh dhal (bit smaller than the one Matt recently reviewed) and it made me want to get something with an exclusively one-handed handle, and so now I don't know what jian to get (considering just getting another sword style entirely to fill that role), but the dimensions of the one Matt is showing in this video look pretty good to me. I'd buy one if there were a good quality option in the $150-300 range, but usually quality jian go for over $1000, except on Sinosword, where the handles are longer.
@@diphyllum8180 Han dynasty Jian are completely different swords. Yes they are different, they are a style from over 1500 years prior to the type of Jian he is talking about. But they don't matter if you are looking for a sword to practice martial arts with. Quite frankly the trend of people using Han or Tang swords for Chinese martial arts is silly. You don't see serious HEMA people practicing 19th century Italian methods with a Roman Gladius for good reason. But for some reason it's seen as being a somehow sensible authentic thing to do by a subsection of the Chinese martial arts community. Nor is there any reason to be puzzled over why a gladius is different from a sidesword. Han and Tang period Jian came in a wide variety of designs including a variety of handle lengths and blade proportions, etc. They were completely different swords used differently from Qing period Jian. His talk about Jian designs not changing is just nonsense. It's like saying all European straight swords retained a single unchanged design. As far as the designs on the site in question, as I mentioned the "Affordable Jian Sword" has a traditional handle as a few others do. Yes it's slightly longer than the one he has, but some handles were slightly longer or shorter. Handle length wasn't standard in any sword style anywhere. As for the Han and Tang Jian, long handles are more common on modern reproduction as they simply sell better because of looks. Likewise very long Jian with long handles have become trendy because of looks and because of their adoption by the modern systems taught in the Wudang mountains. If you practice a modern offshoot such as one of the modern Wudang schools than I can see using something like that. Otherwise Bagua sword methods were designed for using the type of Jian being used at that point (ie Qing dynasty). If you are doing a traditional style of Bagua I'd suggest getting something like the Affordable Jian sword or the Traditional carved Chinese Jian sword. Like most Jian produced today they do have blades and handles at the longer extreme of what was normal in Qing period Jian manufacture (most would have 2-3 inches shorter blades and maybe an inch shorter of a handle than seen on those. Although plenty of ones with those dimensions did exist, they were simply the longer extreme of regular single handed Jian length in the period).
@@TeaSerpent Do you know anywhere other than Sinosword that has good quality and affordable jians? What I practice is mostly Xingyiquan, which can be done with any object in the hand. I also practice Bagua, Taiji, and do freestyle stuff. Going to start studying the Walpurga Fechtbuch (aka i.33) soon too, and interested in Shastar Vidiya.
If Chinese movies are anything to go by, they weren't be wearing armor. But, you know, in Chinese movies, 1 guy with a Jian beats an army of fully armored spear armed soldiers :P
I'm quite a fan of your channel and videos, very informative on European historical weapon and arms. with that said I think you might've got a couple of things wrong with regard to Jian, which is perfectly understandable since this isn't your area of expertise, and ofc you did mention these are just your impression, not research. Based on what I understand as a Chinese national, practitioner of Chinese martial arts and a some what Chinese history buff, the Jian was not really used in pair with a shield, except really really long ago during the Spring Autumn period which is around 500 bc, the first form of Jian as far as historians know today, is a fairly short sword with min hand guard, in fact the hand guard was not meant to guard but rather something to push against when thrusting into a person, at that time, warfare were mostly done on chariots, short sword shield wielders are a form of death squad, limited in number, what they do is close the distance with shield against pole arm then stab someone to death. During Warring state period, people started to fence one another, this is when the hand guard got a little bit bigger, but still nowhere nearly as big as found in EU cross guard. And these fencers do not wear armor or any form of protection, such record can be found in a chapter about swordsmen from a philosophy book written during that period called Zhuang Zi. General warfare at the time start to shift from chariot to riders, pole arm is still the main weapon of choice, but longer swords were used too. Han dynasty is when single edged weapon was invented, the original Han big ring blade is as straight as a Jian but only sharp on the one side, these were really long compare to the normal Jian or Dao and is probably used by both hands. From this point onward, Dao has been the main side arm for military, while Jian is wielded by ppl in charge as a sign of authority, it is believed that Jian is imbued with the virtue of a Junzi, which is Chinese version of a honorable man. It became a symbol of authority, virtue, justice and all the good qualities believed to be found in a man. I believe swords were never paired with a shield since then, at least not on large scales, as to way the hand guard never improved I have no idea. Now there are records of vegabond and rogue swordsmen through out Chinese history, dating back as far as Warring state, and these ppl never wore armor, and their approach to using a sword differ quite a bit from military methods, and none of them walked around with a shield. How they prevented their hand from getting cut is anyone's guess, but my point is as absurd as kung fu movies are, it is not wrong that Jian as well as Dao were used without armor, without shield, in a dueling situation, sometime even 1 vs many, and as such has been practiced this way which eventually became what we known as Chinese martial arts today.
From what I've seen, "jian" is best thought of as an umbrella category like "arming sword", not a single typology, as people seem very prone to do in this comment thread.
Why are the hilts of the North-east Asian (Chinese) swords so much longer than they needs to be? This can be seen on the traditional Jian and Dao swords.
I'm guessing (not an expert in swords, fencing of any kind, or history combat) it might have to do with balancing and giving the possibility of two-handing the weapon in specific circumstances. At least that's what I'd guess
It's for double handling if needed. You index with shape that's at the bottom of the guard. That way your leading hand is very high up leaving most of the handle free actually
Love all your videos and Ive looked forward to this one. So..a couple things..this is a weapon I learned in a kung fu lineage that as of late 40-50s was still fighting with it in Taiwan. ( see Robert W Smith- Chinese boxing masters and methods for corroboration of what my sifu said) that being the case our work revolved around drills. Two man drills of a pre-arranged nature, partner drills, free sparring w minimal gear using blunt or wooden swords and test cutting. They were an ex military family, so much of what was taught was being used in and before the second world war. I have recently started studying the European side sword and find many similarities. One unusual thing they did regards the hilt / guard. My teacher taught that the guard was optimized for trading hands..He was very skilled at initiating or inviting a cut- counter stroking and then trading hands and stepping into your empty unguarded space He could pull it off all the time I saw it more as an occasional trick or trap. I see some people coming out of the Wu tang ( not wu dang) lineage of Lui Yun Chioa and they trained body guards for the Emporer and presidents of Taiwan doing this same tech. Great lecture as always.
To preface this, I'm no expert on chinese weapons by a long stretch. However, that said, all of the early examples of Jian I've seen have a drastically different shape - they have a very broad blade, with no guard at all. The "Sword of Goujian" is a very well preserved example of an early Jian. So your statement that the jian has not changed in design isn't quite accurate.
relatively havent changed is relatively accurate.. wakakka.. plus is that still considered as "jian" by the western historian? or named as different type of sword?
I’m kind of an idiot when it comes to such things but it seems that in china and japan and other asian cultures they would taylor the martial art to suit the blade or weapon, but in europe the weapon as well as the “art” of using it changed and evolved together to meet the demands of the armor they encountered. Is that at all true?
He mentions right in the video that the Japanese originally used swords similar to the Jian before they developed their own weapons, and evolved a style of swordsmanship around their new weapon... so I'd say that's not true.
