The Christian 50 Shades Of Grey Is Worse Than It Sounds 

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The tagline "chivalry makes a comeback" followed by a man refusing to fix her stove until the woman is sitting outside alone in the cold is just mind-blowing

If some guy tells me he can’t be in the same room as a woman who is not his wife, I would take that to mean he’s on some kind of “special” registry and probably move back in with my parents.

My "theory" is no one should be in a room alone with Clay

Ok wait, he won't be alone in a room with a woman, but he owns a business? If a woman comes in antique shopping does he just lock the doors and hide?

Guys will make a whole movie justifying their break up trauma instead of going to therapy

That "joke" about Clay being exactly as controlling as Amber's ex, just in slightly different ways seems like a REAL telling on itself moment! RUN Amber!!! Beating your wife is DEFINITELY old-fashioned!!

I was a teen boy raised in the height of "so i kissed dating goodbye", a book that kicked off the hyper-fundamentalist Christian anti-dating scene in the late 90s, as well as raised on the idea of "no sex or thinking about sex before marriage", the way we got by was by shaming each other, repression, self-flagellation, and self-hatred, and having very few friends who were girls. It sucked. The author of that book advocated only courtship and all similar no-touch rules that would magically stop divorce and make perfect marriages. He renouced his book, got divorced, and stopped being Christian around 2019.

Fifty Shades doesn't pretend to be anything other than a fantasy. Old Fashioned wants people to believe it's reality, and that's what makes it unsettling. Also, how conceited to say 'I can't be in a room alone with a woman,' as if any woman who meets him is going to automatically want him. Please.

I feel like there's something actually super realistic about a woman leaving an abusive relationship and immediately pursuing psychological safety in a "safe" man. He's like the ideological opposite of her ex, and that means he's perfect to her, but she never actually had a period of healing afterwards.

If you told me you were basically afraid to be alone in a room with me, I’d definitely assume you had zero self control and were an active threat.

It's not romantic to be so afraid of thought crimes and your own attraction that you're incapable of ENTERING A ROOM WITH A WOMAN IN IT

This “theory” 🙄 is known as the Billy Graham rule. Billy Graham famously refused to be alone in any space (including an elevator or a car) with a woman who wasn’t his wife. Other well known men such as pastors and politicians (cough Mike Pence cough) have since adopted this “rule.” Growing up in the 90s/00s evangelical church, I knew teenage boys who adopted this “rule” because it was cool and holier than thou. To me it was a huge red flag 🚩

him refusing to not come in was actually a thinly veiled confessional kink

i don't mind people having boundaries, but as a history hobbyist i wanna point out that 99.9% of people in The Olden Days would think clay's pov was bonkers. like even in rural ohio, 1800s christian men would be *appalled*. "you're making a woman stand outside in the cold while fixing her stuff because YOU don't wanna be 'indecent'? that's the most indecent thing you can do!' like i honestly don't mind if men and women don't want to hold hands or hug outside of marriage for religious reasons--i don't understand it myself but it's fairly harmless. but refusing to enter the same apartment as her because they aren't married is absolutely asinine. only people as fundamental as him think he's being reasonable 😭

So many guys cast themselves in the movies they wrote and directed where they play a perfect character. They all want to be Neil Breen, but they can never be Breen

'I am learning to control myself. The only thing needed for this is my strong mind...and that no woman exists in a 10 mile radius around me so I don't get tempted. Easy!'

She has a dreamcatcher AND a cat? And she drives until she runs out of gas? Quirky. So how does she get to the apartment viewing and meet her floppy-haired future beloved?

I CANNOT believe you're covering this movie! My Dad is OBSESSED with it. He and my step-mom even went to the facebook fan-page meet-up held where it was filmed and met a bunch of the actors. My dad says it got him through his divorce with my mom

Also can we talk about how this attitude toward women that you can't EVER BE ALONE with one is inherently patriarchal and holds women back in educational and occupational environments. I went to Bible college and there was a clear difference between how the men were treated and the women because the male professors were perfectly comfortable providing mentorship for male students but female students were held at arm's length and treated like there was no path toward a serious career that wasn't music or teaching children and other women. I did have a male professor tell me that our "teaching" class for women was basically the exact same course as the "preaching" class for men and I was also told I was just as good as anybody in his "preaching" class for men, but there was no path for me to actually use that skill if I didn't want to be a "women's teacher" and preach exclusively at like women's conferences and shit. I'm not really part of the religion anymore and I'm unpacking how much Christian sexism impacted me throughout my life. TL;DR Christian sexism isn't fun or innocent or romantic and I hate this movie

Willie's totally right how this is just as or more dangerous than 50 shades - at least that one is depicted as "wooo spooky sexy dark f'd up" and this one's like "so holy and safe and righteous". Also, toxic/abusive people BENEFIT from people who are more obviously toxic/abusive. Like, "look i didn't do physical violence, i'm great!" even though they're a walking red flag

Clay's friend talking about how he ended up married because there was never a good time to break up with her is the most "are the straights okay" thing I've heard all day. Also, here to tell you, not having sex before you marry someone does not lead anywhere good. Also also, "50% of marriages end in infidelity"? Citation needed please. Great job, Willie, keep 'em coming. You are a funny and handsome knitting witch man. 👍

I'm an ex-mormon but I was a mormon missionary and there was a rule where we weren't allowed to be alone with a woman ever. I lived this man's life for 2 years. I'm in therapy. Hi Willie, would you be interested in some of the cringe mormon videos? There is an endless supply and they deserve the criticism.

...cabin in the woods, case of bottled water and no distractions...yeah, I'm definitely getting the vibes that the 'lifelong bride' has been kidnapped by a guy living off the grid

Dating doesn't have to be debauched or even involve sex at all if its not what people want. Sex isnt inherently bad either, and I think that message is very problematic. This could easily be a horror movie with the right score .. I don't really know what he thinks is going to happen if he's just alone with a woman, he's both creepy and boring all at once.

Me, currently teaching myself clown skills and considering taking aerial lyra classes: “h-how did he know??”

This isn't the first time I've heard about some Christian men refusing to be alone with a woman, but the first time it drove home how annoying it would truly be. Like it's one thing to not invite a woman over it insist on driving somewhere separately, but throwing her out in the cold while he's her landlord fixing stuff? That's just nonsense

Clay says that who we are when we're single is who will be when we're married, but he says it while refusing to be alone with a woman, with a screen door on the other side. How does he expect to be different with a woman when he's married, if this is his theory

I'll admit I was originally a bit charmed by the "I promised I would never be alone in a room with a woman that's not my wife," because I assumed it was a promise that he made to...y'know...his wife? And like maybe she died and he was like still trying to honor his love for her in a sort of weird but harmless(?) way that he could move past with some good old fashioned character development. But yeah, then I realized he made the promise to himself and welp.

The way that Clay has vowed to never be alone in a room with a woman who’s not his wife is deeply worrying to me, and it makes me wonder how old he was when he took this vow and what happened to his family. Did he suddenly move into a garden shed so as not to be forced to be in close proximity to his mother? Is he the sort of man who deems it necessary to wear a chastity belt to guard his virtue? Is the vow meant to protect women from him or to protect him from the women he’s totally sure will throw themselves at him otherwise? I think the story would have been improved if he held the beliefs and lived the life of a self-flagellating medieval monk. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a romance story with someone like that as the love interest. It could be some kind of “don’t judge a book by its cover” thing, alongside a typical “break the stuffy, boring person out of their shell” plot.

Cinema Snob reviewed this years ago and it really stuck with me. He overlayed scary music to show how this could easily be a horror movie and its just so true of these messagey movies

I'm asexual and I'm also having trouble wrapping my head around this whole forced celibacy thing 😅

If someone said "I'm not allowed to be alone in a room with a woman who isn't my wife" I'd immediately go "What the hell is wrong with his wife, I hope he gets out of that situation :

The excitement I felt clicking this, and the subsequent pain of realizing it's not released yet! 😂

10:34 That was super gross and no way to run a business. So if he's a shopkeeper and there's only the one customer who happens to be a woman he's going to leave his store unattended?

This movie sounds like it would have been so much better if it was just about Amber. Like instead when she moves in the apartment she notices a stray cat and starts feeding them. There can be a theme about heeling and learning to trust again. Yes I’m saying we should replace the love story with a different one with the cat. The love between humans and animals can be really sweet and wholesome and I would much rather watch that than a movie pushing toxic ideas about romance.

The behaviour in this movie kind of exemplifies the idea that there are no good or bad actions, only good or bad people. Like a good person can't do a bad action because they're good: they're godly, they're chaste, they're whatever. Their actions are justified by their inherent goodness. Chilling.

I don't even think there was a time in "recent" history (like, post-1800s) when men and women could never be alone together unless they were married? Chaperones were a thing when young people were courting, but there were still times when an unmarried woman and man might be alone together (a nearly-empty train car, a doctor's appointment, some instance where she might need to meet with a lawyer or detective; female passengers and male chauffeurs/carriage drivers... there's probably others, idk*). Clay isn't being "old-fashioned," or "chivalrous," he's thinking of a time that didn't really exist (at least, not since women started being allowed to exist in public and participate in public life... Does he object to that?). Also yeah, "I can't be alone with any woman who's not my wife" is deeply sexist (what if an employer or supervisor said that? He wouldn't be able to meet with female employees in his office for performance reviews or disciplinary issues... It would end up creating a workplace inherently less open to women than men, and be discriminatory). It also sounds like something a sexual predator would say. (*Also literally cases of female professionals, who did exist back then and since medieval times, meeting with male clients. Female portrait-painters alone with male portrait subjects, etc. That's been a thing since the Renaissance.)

This nonsense can extend to family members. I knew an elderly man who wouldn’t accept a ride from his daughter in law because it wouldn’t be appropriate to be alone with her.

Why was that orange peel analogy so fire though?

The intro reminded me of that one time when my best friend sent me an enamel pin and the post office notified me that they tried to deliver a package but i wasn't there so i had to go pick it up. I didnt know what the package was for and only that it came from an address in Russia. So i had a panic attack creating a story in my head aboit how it could be a nefarious rando across the globe trying to plant dangerous goods on me. I told the post office to discard it and left shaking and nearly crying. I texted my bestie about it and she explained that it was a birthday gift. It was a pin of that dog in the burning room saying, "Everything is fine." So I returned to the post office later and sheepishly asked them to actually let me sign for the package. ...anxiety is a wild ride

I’m so excited for your review! 🎉 I played Trish in the movie 😅

I think that you can 100% do a romance without sex, and that’s proven by how many teen romances stand the test of time and are super enjoyable! Hell, you can even have Christian values in a romance and it be enjoyable by non-Christian audiences (I love The Last Song and A Walk to Remember). But what doesn’t work is shoehorning a “romance” into a gross display of someone’s deep seated Christian-flavored misogyny. The main character’s backstory being about escaping an abuser just to have the next loser make a joke about also abusing her is so so so gross. This movie sucked. Love you, Willie, thanks for sharing!! 😂

27:49 All I hear is a predator trying to convince his prey he's safe. It reminds me of religious groomers

My first boyfriend and I used premarital counseling workbooks after only a couple months of dating, maybe less. He became my abusive ex-husband. Yay evangelical purity culture?

38:19 Yeah, that sounds about right. Without help people do tend to go from one abusive relationship to another. While this guy might not break her hand he would break her spirit. He's the type to subtly put her down because things aren't the exact way he wants them.

Oh god I skipped the sponsor segment and landed on a serious pause followed by "trust me - they're coming" and now I feel severely cursed

Hey Willie this is a comment. I grew up in that culture and was taught the whole don't kiss before marriage, never be alone, and a bunch of other rules like that... It sucks and is toxic, i agree i don't want to kink shame but when that kink was forced on me as early as 10, well, I at least think you are fine here haha.

Please never get rid of the knitting, I like watching the progress while listening 🙏

What a wild movie. The incongruity between the guy's beliefs and his actions and the fact that no one gets to question them at any point tells me that there was exactly one writer and he took no notes.

I was horrified during that dudes monologue where he clearly didnt stay with his wife because he loved her...he stayed because he never found a convenient time to dump her and just settled 😧

Nuthin' screams "romance" like a case of water and an undisclosed location in the woods. No-one will be able to hear the screams of "romance", anyway.

"what's your deal stress boy" has the same energy as "wouldnt YOU like to know, weather BOY"

Really great video as always. My thoughts on the use of "theory" in the movie: evangelicals tend to purposefully misuse the term to undermine the scientific uses, especially as it relates to evolution.

I really didn't like the tone of "depends on the colour". I bet he'd have a meltdown if she turned up with "Jezebel red" on her nails.

If you tell me you can't be in a room with a woman that's not your wife I'm gonna assume you can't trust yourself and you're going to assault or hit on me. That's so incredibly toxic.

My mum is staunchly against sex before marriage. It was hard for her to hide her disappointment when I ended up pregnant before marriage. I was 20 weeks pregnant walking down the isle. (and for those curious, NO it was not a shotgun wedding. We got engaged first...then got preggo.) Mum asked me why I was so insistent on sex before marriage and I laughed. "Mum, would you buy a car without looking under the hood or giving it a test drive? Would you buy a house without testing that the plumbing worked right and the electricity connected? Without an inspection? Would you buy a life long subscription to a single meal without tasting it first? NO. Of course you wouldn't so why would I walk into a marriage without making sure our plumbing worked, that it caused sparks, that our outlets were compatible, and we both liked that single flavor enough to live with it for the rest of our lives? That would be the ultimate foolishness. So yah, we gave it a test drive first...ok, several test...daily test drives first!"

Ugh, this movie is basically ‘But what if Magical Thinking worked, though?!’ And I hate it. But you treated it with a blend of ridicule and compassion that made it bearable. And now more about some toxic beliefs that encounter in my life. So it’s a win in the end?

i feel like these christian protags wind up surrounded by odd soulless characters bc their writers have an obsession with using tragic, gritty downsides of life as cautionary tales but making them the result of not doing christian enough things, which removes 80% of character reasoning or building. as a result creepy catcall guy isn't tragic, he's just doing it unchristian and getting an unchristian outcome so we don't need to know anything else

This man's ideal honeymoon fratures a case of bottled water and I think that's the weirdest part

There were some twists in this movie that were straight up jaw dropping. I don't know how a functioning person in society could write those and think its okay

I'm used to seeing some weird and off-putting stuff in Christian movies, but my jaw straight up hit the floor during the conversation about the nail polish. It was a one-two punch because BOTH of them said screwed up things. "That sounds like something you'd come up with, haha!" GIRL, WHY-

Please please pleeeeaaaase 🙏🙏🙏 don't ever stop knitting!!!!!! It's therapeutic & inspiring & one of my favorite parts of your show 😥🥺😢

I was drawn by the knitting- it worked.

Movies like this are the reason people tell you to wait a year before dating after leaving a narcissist.

As a long time knitter and fiber artist myself, seeing you knit and finding your videos were "knitting time with Willie" was a huge reason for me to keep coming back to your content. It's akin to crafting with a friend while gossiping about something crazy that happened. Please keep it up, it makes me smile!

I like that you knit in your videos. It makes it feel cozy.

gonna be fully honest, if I met someone who said they'd made a vow never to be alone with a woman who wasn't their wife, my first thought wouldn't be "this person is single and very religious", it would be "damn your Domme sounds intense"

You hit the nail on the head, “reformed serial killer vibe.” The man made that vow, but he is perfectly fine with leering at her through the screen door. Ick! Oh, and, yeah, “what we do when we are single is what we do when we are married.” Indeed. You see a woman as an object when you are single, you will see your wife as an object when you are married. God forbid you develop an interest in a person by dating them and continue to date when you are married.🙄😂…been married for 16 years. My husband and I do still do the things with each other that we did when we were single. We talk to each other, we listen, we spend time together and alone. We have children, so we also spend time as a family…we go out. We have sex. We do projects together. We share our dreams about the future. We love and support each other. So, yeah, basically all the stuff we did when we were single, except that now we only have one house payment instead of two and we file our taxes together.

If a guy told me that he'd promised to never be in a room alone with a woman he isn't married to, I'd make extra sure that *I am* never alone with him in a room, because I'd be afraid of what he thinks he'd do if he ever were alone with a woman. Also, now that I think about it, I'm wondering how far these fundies want to go with this purity crap. At which point do they just go back to the parents picking husbands or wives for their children and force-marry them because talking to someone of the opposite sex before marriage is just too much. With this premise of "never in a room alone with a woman" and "not dating", how would that even work, realistically? For the majority of people, they do not live close to each other or have reason to meet and possibly talk to each other on a regular basis, beyond at the workplace, maybe. Are you supposed to just ask someone you find attractive to marry you because you saw them a few times in the grocery store or something? They obviously had to construct a pretty special situation to make it plausible for the two protagonist to even have any reason to speak with each other.

I thought this was a movie with a male lead in his 20s, so seeing the actor was a jolt of surprise.

it's probably been said, but i still think it's insane that this guy refuses to be alone in a room with anyone who isn't his wife. dude, you own a fucking store. unless you have employees (which raises a whole other issue in terms of potentially not hiring women, which would be textbook gender discrimination), you're going to have to be alone with women sometimes! also "why is that weird effeminite witch man knitting when it's about a christian movie?" is such a thing to worry about, and frankly i relate to thinking that way a little too much

Thank you for thanking me again.

For a second I thought this was gonna be a review of that book that is 50 Shades from the perspective of CHRISTIAN Gray

I can't wait! I'm dying to know what the Christian version of 50 Shades is. Whipping in the name of Jesus?

Is it possible Clay confused “theory” with “theology”? Maybe he was trying to avoid the religious connotations of the word theology and thought theory was the secular equivalent?? That’s the only thing I can think of

I also get super anxious about random phone calls! I dunno why but it just freaks me out like I somehow just assume it's something bad. Imagine being a landlord and you won't go in the house you're showing to a female tenant. If I was that woman I would be like "Uhhhh is there a gas leak or something? Think I will keep looking..." ALSO isn't it so telling how so many of these Christian movies involve a "traditional man" who wants a "traditional marriage" but ALWAYS has to convince a "modern" woman to become traditional for him. I think there is an element of power fantasy to it for religious men that they can "tame" a non-traditional woman into their perfect traditional wife who is now stuck at home and dependent on them. They don't really want a woman who is already traditional, they want the satisfaction of trapping a wild, non-traditional woman so they can have her to themselves. All these movies do it. On the flip side, movies with women as the main character often involve her accepting the man who is ALREADY traditional.

“Dating doesnt train us to be good life partners, it just trains us to be good dates.” I- I just- What? Isnt marriage just dating someone for the rest of your lives (ideally, I guess). Does this dude actually not go out on dates with his wife, romance her, do literally anything with her? This guy definitely put a ring on his wife’s finger, sat down in his recliner, and asked her to bring him a beer.

I usually skip ad reads, but you got me and I'm glad you did

*head itches once* "I hope I don't have lice..." #relatable

The notion that the entire relationship doesn't change when they have sex is so wrong-headed. Whether they call it dating or not, courtship playacting exists. They can stay on their best behavior until the deal is sealed, only showing their true colors when it's going to be hard for an abused partner to disentangle themself. And besides that, how is a man refusing to be alone with a woman who is not his wife ANY kind of guarantee that he can be trusted to be good to her when there's nobody watching?

How old is the main guy SUPPOSED to be? Was the porn stuff from college days, and was THAT 9 years ago? Because if so they're trying to tell me that this man is like...round'about 30-35?! Somehow I feel like this is more egregious than the 26 year old teenager trope. Especially between him and the antique guy with the gray roots and half his hair dyed. Also love watching Willie try to pose for the thumbnail at the end, every time. It reminds me of myself trying to take a selfie, or even figure out how to pose a drawing.

"A lot of the boundaries we've thrown away were there to protect us..." he can't help but put the blame on her for being abused. if only you didn't date some strange man and lust over a relationship then you wouldn't have put yourself in that situation. so gross

Well, I'm bi. So I guess EVERYBODY CLEAR THE ROOM! I CAN'T BE IN HERE WITH ANY OF YOU!

The genuine little laugh when you were asking why you knit on the show was so wholesome 😊

I always forget that these behaviors are weird and abnormal to people outside of the belief system… I was raised evangelical and it was fairly common for a man and a woman to not be alone together. It still feels weird to be alone in a room with a guy and I’ve been out of the religion since 2019/20

“ aw man I can’t wait to watch a video about an obscure film “ “My grandmother got kidnapped and sent to Michigan because she found out the truth about cough drops. Also I’m afraid of flying clowns” Good humor . I shall subscriber

39:59 im sorry but im going crazy: "protect us" from what??? This is literally some "am not allowed near schools" speach. The fact they wrote this as a "healthy balanced christian man" having his moment thing is beyond me

Ooofff this movie sounds really hard to watch. I feel it’s going to be used by horrible ‘Christian’ men to justify misguided arguments. Thank you for your analysis!

It's kind of fun that "clay" is ALMOST a portmanteau of christian gray.

The thing I don't like about premieres is knowing that there's a video, but having to wait.

But that's just a theory... A CLAY Theory! Thanks for watching!

that was the best ad read i've ever seen

The most absolutely unhinged ad segue I've ever seen. Beautiful, ground breaking, and hilarious. Now to watch the rest of the video.

Everything about clay makes me uncomfortable, but i guess old fashioned men didnt have much self awareness so that makes sense at least

Willie Drawfee: The 6th most well known (but objectively 2nd most interesting) Drawfee polycule partner

My fav part about a willie muse video is when they are like "welp thats the end of the video" and there's still 15 minutes left of the video

The title of this is absolutely chilling!

Man, this film's a rough one. Thanks for toughing it out, Willie.

Watching you knit got me back into knitting, and now I've almost finished a blanket. As long as it makes you happy, keep doing it!