I remember the video where you first talked about your dream computer, it's crazy that it has come this far. Amazing job, it's fascinating to see the evolution. I probably won't get one nor will I write anything for it (already has a ton of projects running), but it's nice to be there observing this whole idea coming to life.
@@The8BitGuy PLEEEEEASE give us the first Commodore 64 GamePad that plugs into both joy-ports, with one port controlling the d-pad and left trigger and the other port controlling the four function buttons and right trigger. It is your destiny to give us what we should have had all along! Imagine if we had that when the C64 came out... ...oh the games we could have had...
Long live the Chickenlips 16!!! Congratulations one and all on getting to this exciting stage. It's very rewarding to see design contributions I played a tiny part in coming to life here. But one important question: Can you still access the Assembly NotePad environment by typing AssPad? 😀
Yes! I’ve been waiting for this day to happen! I want one! As an indie game dev, I am already working on projects that I can port over to the Commander-16 - a platformer, a side-scrolling beat ‘em up AND a Graphic Text Adventure. Please thumbs up this post if you would like to see my projects on the new Commander 16.
I’m planning on being some kind of indie game dev too! I’m learning C/C++ and struggling with 6502. I’d love to see some user-friendly 6502 tutor program for this machine.
This has got to be one of my favorite things you've done. Love it that you learn something so well that you end up designing and building your own. True mastering of your skill and knowledge
Most of the design work was done by others. Listing specs is not design work, that's dreaming. At beast he is project leader. And he says so in the video. If he had to design it himself it would never exist. Give credit where it's due.
@@bzuidgeest I mean this is a bit like saying that Steve Jobs shouldn't be credited because other people did the technical work despite him being the one to come up with the idea and organize the whole thing... also David did write a part of the kernel as well as various other bits and pieces.
@@zaper2904 true enough, but some statement make it look like 8 bit guy is the god of electronic design. And indeed i think jobs is overrated. The ideas are logical and some had clear prior art. I think the apple engineers that actually made it real get far too little mention/credit. So compliments fine, but don't go overboard
The sound capability in particular impresses me. I can imagine masterpieces like Knuckles' Chaotix or Alien Soldier level of music being easily done on this, and more with even more channels available than a standard Mega Drive/32X.
if you think this is impressive check out the c256foenix. Its not as nice a starter package but it has far more more vintage sound chips in both fpga and real chips. (its also quite expensive. Also far superior grahics and use the 6502's bigger brother
40 years ago IBM R+D designed and created the XT computer. Cost was probably in the millions. Today, a handful of guys do it in their basements for maye 10s of thousands. True that the use case for these machines will be limited, and have absolutely no impact on commercial activities (unlike the XT) but it is still technically impressive.
OMG. I am just stunned. The amount of love and dedication you must have for Commodore is just mind blowing. I remember my C64 days with a lot of nostalgia and have played around with emulators to recreate some of it. But you have taken this to a geeks dream. Hats of to your persistence and obvious extensive knowledge of the hardware involved. 10 PRINT NERDGASM 20 GOTO 10
To put some perspective on that. The c256foenix project was started at the same time and is done by a single woman (design wise), she had far more advanced hardware out within a single year. Unfortunately it has quite the price-tag, and she doesn't have the large audience to build a community out of. This is three years on and still not ready.....And the team it many times the size.
As if I didn't already want one of these badly enough, my mind is now spinning with the musical possibilities having the VERA and Yamaha chips together in one machine
It is rather like Commodore rose from the dead to compete against the Raspberry Pi with this single-board computer. It is actually more space-efficient, lighter and destined to be more affordable than a MEGA 65.
@@angelperez7891 Commander x16 has a mostly prehistoric chipset at its core, I think. The Mega 65 lives fully on fpga. No Pi's are 8 bit :) All of them are cool, useful, and fun to build stuff around :)
@@jsmythib Raspberry Pies are bitwise like the first Playatation and Sega Saturn. The Raspberry Pi 3 B+ and newer are like the Nintendo 64. 32 bits and 64 bits.
Awesome! I was a ZX Spectrum man, but I could definitely be persuaded into the light with the X16! Well done for your perseverance with this. I’m officially in awe!
I mean not many creator would show an indie version of their dream project in the unveiling video. I know you made it open source, but... You are awesome, David!
Love seeing the progression of the X16! Looking very promising! Also, Green motor is a clear remix of Mega Man X2's intro stage theme song, in honor of the "green biker dude", respect for the musician!
And BubbleBobble... I'll see how things will go in next few months, maybe I'll be able to do it... start with arcade and c64 ports reversed and then write the code for it.
You really put a lot into it!!! Mind-blowing project!!! I wonder how much would it take to import it to Europe. Germany, UK, Poland had many C64 fans out there. If it comes to its wild-life (what I wish) - games? - from the past (on PC) I bet, UFO fans would be so happy to have it there - it was slow enough and a perfect time bender! ;-) Hardware - I dare to say USB ports and just maybe - Internet access. Both as expansion cards, not to add to the motherboard cost. Once again good luck!
It does look rough around the edges, but still looks like a nice contemporary 6502 based system in the making. Not sure if going legacy only in I/O will be wise in the long-run though. Kind of beats the point of a new system if it only natively works with old stuff and needs (active) converters. I'd love to get involved, but i'm more of the electrical engineering type than the software/game development. So maybe if there is like a need for specific add-in boards that add interfaces or somebody wanted to create like a X16 powered robot for reasons i could help. but that is more for once this thing actually reaches the wild.
Quick question you might be able to answer. Could a $4 Pi-Pico, or 2 be turned into a add-in expansion card to give this computer more power, or even maybe used as co-processor for sound, or graphics? By the way people have the Pico running Doom ports....Also its still a prototype I'm sure it'll get better by the time it gets to kickstarter.
@@logannosleep5 A quick check and i'd say YES. You can do that. Either using the parallel Data/Address bus, the unused VIA chip (USER header) or the I2C bus (i2c header). Only the data/address bus are exposed on the expansion card header though so for the latter you will need to wire like a ribbon cable to the card. The i2c is probably the easiest way to get started with interfacing a couple of Picos followed by the VIA, but with some work, tricks like DMA and decoding via logic chips: the databus/address bus can be used too. Probably needs some level shifting regardless since the Pico is a 3.3v and i would assume the X16 will be running 5V.
The first thing that came to mind when I saw Vera PSG was the Apple IIGS's Ensoniq sound chip which also has 16 channels. I'm not an expert, but does that mean the PSG on its own can match the Ensoniq?
Pretty standard for its time. While Commodore stopped making 8 bit systems, MSX went on a bit longer. And yes, you can get this quality sound out of an MSX with FM-PAC, SCC or Music Module.
@@Okurka. of course they have they're watching this video, but that's not the point, they're talking within the context of the retro systems this was designed to be alike, cheap purpose built synths from prior to 2000 Of course modern sound is more capable, that can play literally anything, but that isn't the point anything modern style is not the comparison here (it's like seeing someone impressed by a recreation vintage car, and responding "have you ever seen a modern car it's so much faster" like A of course they have and B that's not the damn point)
When I was growing up in the 80s I never thought that the old Commodore would so heavily influence the gaming industry for so long. To see spiritual successors like this is just amazing and I really cannot wait until the final product is out in the wild. The V2 looks like it may be ITX and I would absolutely love something of that size to fit in an InWin Chopin case one day!
You do incredible work. As a 57 year old IT Professional who cut their teeth on a VIC 20 and then C64 I really love your channel and look forward to getting my hands on a Commander 16! Thanks for all you do!!
I am also a 57 year old IT professional who cut their teeth on an Atari 400 and then an Apple II clone. If X16 is released as a bare board, I will most likely buy one and build it.
Glad to see things have moved along nicely with the project. The inclusion of a YM2151 certainly caught my attention-the same chip that was used in many arcade games by Sega and others in the late 80s.
YM FM chip + PSG is my favorite soundchip combo personally. Games like Alien Soldier on the Mega Drive showcases this really well, as is Knuckles' Chaotix on 32X. I rate it above SNES for having clearer sound. I found a lot of SNES music sounds muddy.
I really like the idea, even if I won't buy one because I can't really afford one, and I also believe that it also has a historic importance of being an accessible method to program like you did in the 80's (BASIC/assembler), even if it does far surpass what was possible in those times in terms of graphics/sound
It looks awesome, and in the end it actually fills the void created by so many retro projects that went nowhere. This sort of fills the void of the Intelivision Amico, and of course the Coleco Chameleon. It’s nice to finally have a product like this actually make it all the way to production.
The difference between this and both Coleco/Intellivision efforts is that one is a passion project, and another is a project simply banking on nostalgia.
I love this project. One thing I would love to see, though, is the addition of a USB port and HDMI port. USB support could be as simple as keyboard and mouse support, for starters. The reason for these is that it would eliminate the need for adaptors, something I suspect most users would require.
I’m not a coder but I really like the idea behind this. I would love to buy it and put it together with my kids. I would want all the parts and my kids and I would put it all together. It would be great to play games from the 1980’s to mid 1990’s.
This is awesome. The fact you have included the sound and graphics commands in basic is an excellent decision. That is what was so compelling about these early computer systems. You could do graphics and sound right out of the box just using the manual that came with the systems. I haven't looked at the site yet, I would assume there is or will be a full manual. I really miss my C64. Going with just the bare board is also a wise move. It is functional and there could be a small group that can then produce enclosures as a way to promote their skills as well as the X16. I would imagine there are probably already files for download for 3d printing cases. This is really exciting. Anyway, great job to everyone that has been part of this. I have to believe this will inspire another generation of future programmers and artists. :)
The commander x16 makes me wish I didn't have to work for a living. I'm so intrigued but I know I wouldn't put in enough time to make proper use of it. But if I didn't have to have other life responsibilities I would willingly jump down this rabbit hole
Hell yea! Once it goes into full production I will have to get one. I am an electronic musician who likes FM synthesis. My dream synth is a DX7. I am glad you included a Yamaha FM chip. Musicians already use the C64. So you should make video about the audio capabilities on your 8 bit keys channel. I bet plenty of electronic musicians would want an X16. Especially if you offer a MIDI board and a synth program.
Thank you for all you do! I used to develop games for the TRS-80 Model I/III/IV. (I am the co-author of Games Pack 1). Now I am thinking I should investigate doing that for this project. I will take a look at the documentation and the emulator and go from there. All good wishes!
Omg, I had a trs-80 model 1 when I was a kid and first learned to program on it. It was my first real computer. I loved that manual that taught basic with the cartoons! Also, I played all the games in that game pak. Did you actually write that pyramid text adventure? I played that thing so much. I was just constantly stuck at it. That is so cool if you were the programmer!
This is awesome man! So glad this project has come along so well. I'm a long time viewer and I really like your channel a lot. Unfortunately I won't be getting an x16 once they're released because I don't know anything about BASIC or retro computing, but it's still really exciting to see it come this far!
512K sliced into 8K banks, nice! You can do pretty extensive programs with this. Actually, there's so many banks available you could use them as a RAM-disk in a custom operating system :)
Oh man, it truly is amazing seeing this project come to life. Even if i might not be able to get my hands on a gen1 board, i will definately get a gen 2 or 3. So excited, keep up the good work!
I really love your intro music so much... I hadn't watched you in a while, so I thought, 'I'm gonna see what they're up to' - and realised I was humming your intro music before I even opened RU-vid! ^^ I got a couple notes wrong though, I'm still a new fan xD
Apart from (obviously) having done an amazing job here, I frankly don't see the point in doing so? Could someone please enlighten me? I am quite an enthusiast, owning (and having fun with) a C64, an Amiga 500, all the older Nintendos from NES up to the Gamecube, about 20 PCs from the earliest 4.77MHZ XT up to a decent Win11 gaming machine, and some other funny stuff like a Laser310 for example. Most of these machines are completely incompatible with each other. Who is in need of another incompatible machine just to tinker with? I'll be never out of tinkering opportunities with the already available (and partly free!) stuff. Is there anyone wo actually is? What will you do with it - and why, maybe, should I get one, too?
Awesome work on bringing it this far! I will have to invest when I can afford to do so! One minor complaint I have is no built-in HDMI, instead needing an adapter. I understand that this is aimed at retro enthusiasts who likely have displays that support Composite, S-Video or VGA. But we’re getting to a point where TVs or monitors don’t have composite or DVI, let alone VGA. It’d be nice if any models, now or later, had HDMI built in. The upshot of that , of course, is that the audio can be passed through the same signal.
I agree, I'd love to buy an X16, but i've no monitors or TVs in my house that support any kind of non HDMI / analog video, and no available deskspace to buy one online and add it to my computing room, which is already filled to be brim with monitors...
Whilst HDMI makes sense for hooking to TV's and monitors - that incurs a per-unit royalty to the group that controls HDMI for every device with HDMI added to it. Using DisplayPort there is no per-unit royalties to be paid (not even to implement it), and you can fairly easily find DP-to-HDMI conversion cables on PC part sellers like PCCaseGear or Newegg (or even Amazon) if you "must" have HDMI-input on a screen. Additionally; a lot of high-end gaming monitors today still have VGA alongside DVI-D, HDMI (sometimes 2) & DP, such as the AOC AGON AG271QG4's (2560x1440p144Hz, 27", 1x DP, 2x HDMI (1x MHL), 1x DVI-D, 1x VGA/D-Sub 15) that I'm personally running.
I suspect there will be at least plans online for pin-compatible HDMI VERA boards. The home brewed clones like Wavicle’s (but not his specifically) have discussed and in at least one case, IMPLEMENTED one already. My box will be getting one.
@@HPPalmtopTube Do TVs really have no composite input these days? I looked at the latest Sonys and they still do (albeit via 3.5mm phono plug, includes audio). Not sure of the cheaper brands?
it the same compliant raspberry pi, when the first came, sold on the ground an the little, to bitt pulled from you juke pile, at the almost one had HDMI monitor in there juke pile, and time moved on now no one a working, VGA monitors any more, and last generation HDMI are now in the juke pile, the problem we be the same getting chip, the right standards in raspberry pi, VGA not being thing on new chip designs, and the sole new old retro, either of the shelf ready made parts, with past in mind, and HDMI was not a thing back then? but I do thing going amiga option with modern day rf modulator block, but doing HDMI instead in the box all colour matched as it all on thing
@@shaurz Would also date the machine to the current set of online services and enable remote attacks. Making a secure TCP/IP stack for such a small machine will be quite a challenge.
Could you show how to network 8 bit computers? How about a fun video to control halloween fun house effects? IE Smoke machine, strobe light or stage light controller.
Great update and glad to hear from the project. I am not from the era of C64, 8bit or 16bit computers but greatly appreciate their design and overall capabilities. As well as the simplicity in learning computer architecture when working with smaller chips (I can even see the potential for a Network expansion card to teach/learn networking basics!). I definitely plan on buying a board for myself once the final prototyping and debugging is finished amongst the devs. GREAT PROJECT, Hope it goes smoothly! 👍🏻❤
Personally I think there's some value in having all the chips separated out on the first run board as it allows the new generation of kids (or old generation of kids) to see and understand the various functions of what each chip does. It gives the brain something to visually see how the whole thing works together. Once it becomes a single amorphous blob it just becomes a black box. Kids in particular need to know how things work.
So you're suggesting it be changed so kids can see how it works, even though changing it would mean it works differently? That's,..err,.... "interesting".
@@beezle1976 Err no, I was referring to first generation boards which have all the chips separated out, the one 8-bit guy is demonstrating in the video. Not sure how you came to the conclusion you got too.
Zero FPGA was unrealistic at the time, and still nowadays is. They could use microcontrollers, arduino style, but David conceded that FPGA solution was more flexible in the end, since VERA handles Video, sound and the SD-CARD I/O. The YM2151 is still manufactured in china in small ammounts, and you can get from outside China if necessary (ex. winsource). Same price as RPI, well, maybe phase 3, when everything wil be coded in a FPGA chip.
That’d be nice if you could fit the motherboard inside the little keyboard you showed up like the Commodore. It would definitely improve sales. Also an HDMI or USB-C port for handling power/video/audio would be great because many people don’t have analog monitors anymore.
It has expansion slots like the Apple computers! Love it. Want one. I hope we see interesting cards made like we see done for the Apple 8 bit machines. Not sure what Gen 2, etc... will make of all that. There is time to sort it.
I don’t think it should ever be crowdfunded. That’s a whole lot of stress for no reason. Just make a few and sell them as you have them completed. Make a waiting list with a small deposit so you know the demand.
I kind of hope he does crowdfund. The more units in the world, the more likely it gets adopted in a big way by the demo folks. (But yeah, probably more stressful for the 8-bit guy).
lol, aren't those glitched names on the sd card at 22:01 due to it forcing every charecter to be upper case, just by adding an offset I imagine. So if its already uppercase it "overflows" with the added offset into other characters. You can see, when flappy bird loads, that for one frame everything that was before upper is now lowercase and what was glitched is now uppercase.
Im well into retro computing but Im trying to put my finger on why I have no interest in this. I think its that i struggle to see the point of a new incompatible 8 bit machine at all. I like running original hardware OR modern FPGA type gear that is fully compatible with an original machine and runs original software, only much faster. It would have been better to have this project at least run C64 software but also supports enhanced sound and graphics for the coders who want to develop better 8 bit games
I personally don't like that idea. Extending on the established always sound nice, but rarely succeed as you are forcing coders to ask themselves if they are willing to break compatibility with all the other C64s to make use of the new features. And as weird as it may sound: It genuinely is easier to convince one to make something for a completely "new" system that simply isn't compatible, then to create something for a old system using a new extension that breaks compatibility. So i kind of understand why he chose not to create/extend on the C64. Still a gamble though on whether he can manage to a new scene around the X16.
@@Foxhood I was thinking that any newly coded games would not be enhancements of old C64 games. After all, it would be clear that new games only run on the X16 with the bonus that it could run C64 games
@@atamiga2491 The problem is that people making new games for a retro(-like) system will ask themselves if they would create a new game for the X16, or a new game for the X16 and all existing C64 (clones) out there. That genuinely is a tough sell to convince to embrace the X16 when the C64 is safer. It is the curse of backwards compatibility with a older yet still relevant system. You may think it is just a bonus, but inadvertently you are kind of undermining yourself by making it possible to just make for the old and be compatible on both. As counter-intuitive it may be. It is easier to convince people to adopt and develop for a new system without backward compatibility, than it is for one that does have it.
@@Foxhood yep I get your point, while bonus c64 compatibility might appeal to some, it would not appeal to developers who are looking for a fresh enhanced 8bit platform
This is like Spectrum Next for the C64 folks, great project and already looking like a polished product. Hope the go fund me is a success because this is a pretty sweet machine. I remember you talking about wanting to build something like this, your dream retro computer, and here we are with it almost finished.
I would say the Mega65 is more like the Spectrum Next for C64 users, because it can run C64 software while having enhancements of its own to every aspect. The X16 also has enhancements to every aspect, but it is not binary compatible with C64 software, based on what David said in this video.
VERA is FPGA, since there's no off the shelf video adapters for 8-bit machines manufactured anymore. The closest thing was the original gameduino, but it's interface aren't suitable for 8-bit machines.
Going up to the command you just typed and editing it is revolutionary. Not pressing the up button and getting it again, literally editing what you just ran and run it again differently. Madness! Have I missed something?
I remember the first video about this, then checking if there were updates every few months for a few years. Super awesome to see it finally come to life after so long!
Any chance on a kit to build it yourself of the production. It would be interesting for some of us to build it without having to worry if we got the correct parts
2:40 The HuC6820, an advanced derivative of the 6502 which powers the PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 runs at 7.19Mhz (with a slow mode pegged at 1.79 Mhz). So while twice as fast, the Commander X16 is still the fastest thing on a 6502!
I am really happy to see this dream finally comes true! I will play with the emulator, and write some programs in BASIC and 6502 assembly. Really hope to purchase a unit of Commander X16 in the near future!
Unfortunately USB ports are a pain to handle in 8bit systems but nothing prevents adding them in an expansion card. But not only the ports are needed but also the drivers and software to control the “things” you connect to it.
@@MarianoLu Well since this is a system where all the software will have to be made for it anyways, I thought adding a USB port to it would give people more incentive to make software for it. There are LOTS of usb peripherals that could be used on this, not just mice and keyboards, but wifi, game controllers and flash storage
