Shut up dude. Don't act like you knew the guy because you read something on Wikipedia about how he was a pioneer of computing before you were even born. It's pathetic.
Fun Fact: John Dvorak is an asshole, typical journalist criticizing things and never built or worked on anything in their life, if he's so smart why didn't he make his own company and computers, typical liberal asshole.
@@chrischurch4551 Yes that goes without saying, just the way this guy presented himself without actually building out any technology himself was annoying, he could just say its not recommended for x,y,z reasons.
@@ironhawk2562 I still own my Model 25 which is related to the Model 30 (it's the all-in-one version of the 30) and it still works. I sometimes use it but often more than anything it's a display piece. But it is ready to be used whenever and has its own little retro desk, with functioning dot matrix printer and a copy of Print Shop Deluxe. Sometimes I'll use it to make retro birthday cards and people love it.
We used these at a large UK bank. Basically they were built like tanks. Saw all sorts of horrors like spilt drinks, smoky environments, switched on for years at a time and they rarely went wrong. What a time!
In my tenth grade keyboarding class (93-94), they replaced our electric typewriters with IBM PS/2s. That's when I fell in love with computers and have been hooked ever since.
Stewart anxiously watching John C continuing to mess with the PS/2, completely ignoring that the other guest while is trying to answer a question may be my favourite moment in the history of this show. The fact John C can't stop messing with it even after everyone has dropped heavy hints he's supposed to stop is peak Dvorak.
@@nelhern2677 IBM did nothing to Kildall except not giving him a contract. He got dozens of other contracts for CP/M from computer manufacturers, including Amstrad, Sinclair Research, Microsoft (yes, Microsoft, with their SoftCard for Apple ii), Microbee, Atari, Osbourne, and numerous others, but still couldn't leverage that into becoming a major software player, due to his own business incompetence.
Our family's first computer was a PS/2 Model 50, bundled with an IBM ProPrinter III XL. By the time it was retired, (replaced with a blazing fast Pentium 166 machine) the machine even managed to run Win 3.1. I still have the machine and fire it up once or twice a year and play some King's Quest IV or Hoyle's Book of Games for nostalgia's sake.
wish i still had my PS/2 someone stole it jerks. I had it in my garage someone broke in and stole pretty much everything of value. A lot of stuff they must have had a very big truck. Anyway the computer that replaced it back then was a Pentium 100.
My school district growing up purchased a ton of ps/2s around 1990. All of our computer labs... all of the computers in classrooms and libraries. They were still using them all in 1998.
If OS/2 had been available and WORKED on day 1, the PS/2 would have had a much better chance of succeeding. IBM should have dropped the idea of running OS/2 on the 80286 chip, however. The real killer was the Micro Channel Architecture or MCA. Whereas the PC architecture was open and could be used by 3rd party vendors to move the PC ahead fast, MCA is closed, only available by license. This meant that the PS/2 was limited to fewer peripherals and enhancements, which limited acceptance and slowed development of the PS/2.
would have should have could have well it's to late now shame they won't bring os3 out they can't get back into the market now as it's to late as windows 10 is practically free to low priced for them to compete
Tom hit the nail on the head... John was correct while George was wrong on this one, MCA never caught on because of the closed bus architecture - had IBM been a little looser on that front, it might have been a viable mainstream bus alternative instead of dying out as quickly as it did.
I remember the first time I saw an EGA screen. My impression was that the colors were not nearly as good as my Amiga's, BUT, the clarity and refresh rate were AMAZING!
Love Dvorak's bit in this. He's a character. Also interesting how the airlines' guy was legitimately referencing "War Games" movie as a concern to how their system can be compromised by PC users in real life.
Yes, Dvorak is a character, but wrong so many times. When talking about multi-tasking with Windows 3.1 around 1991 he said "If I want multi-tasking I use a second computer on the floor by my desk!" lol!
He was pretty much spot on about the PS/2. Great for B2B sales because of serviceability, but it will be a legal sinkhole for clone makers. And that’s about exactly how it panned out. Schools and businesses bought them up, the consumer market did not, and clone makers kept incrementing on the AT platform.
@@DataWaveTaGo I love Dvorak, such a funny guy. I seem to recall he made this comment regarding Windows 3.1 because it was such a bad multitasker back in the day--it's easier just to use a second computer. :-)
@@DataWaveTaGo I'm pretty sure that, if this isn't apocryphal (I can't find any reference to it) he only was making that joke b/c of the lack of compelling Windows applications to multitask. Not to mention that Windows 3.1 (which came out in 92) was still only cooperative multitasking. Dvorak liked the Amiga, which has pre-emptive multitasking since it's initial release in 85.
@@mk553 Just saw you comment now. I concur. Also that Win 3.1 likely didn't have much compelling software for him upon release, from his perspective. He probably was a WordPerfect guy.
IBM's attempt to change the standard to a proprietary bus format (MCA), spurred on the development of EISA by clone manufacturers for servers and VESA for extended ISA-based bandwidth on desktops. Later, an overall replacement (PCI) overtook all bus standards, followed by PCI-E, the current standard as of this writing. This same kind of thing happened when Intel tried to move their CPU architecture to using RAMBUS-only memory instead of DRAM. Intel had a financial stake in seeing RAMBUS succeed - it was a way for them to 'double-dip' on CPU and memory purchases. This encouraged motherboard/memory manufacturers and AMD to develop double data rate (DDR) RAM, which could be made more cheaply and not have an Intel 'tax' associated with it. I guess the moral here is: Don't try and change a standard to something proprietary unless you have no competition in the space.
6:49 Worth also mentioning: *SQUARE PIXELS!* Unlike EGA, VGA finally offered a mode where the pixel density was the same in both the X- and Y-directions. So if you drew a circle, it looked like a circle on-screen, not an ellipse.
They should've never stopped making ps/2s. They were rock solid systems and the micro channel bus was lightning fast. I wouldn't mind having a modern unit with an i7 and 1tb esdi hard drive.
Well, in short, the open architecture of the PC; meaning users could upgrade whatever they wanted or needed; allowing for significant upgrades without buying an entirely new computer. This meant that hardware manufacturers could compete, and the competition drove down prices. But driving down prices isn't enough to make the difference, people had to buy the hardware. Over on the microcomputer market, the whole computer market, you could say, a very distinct culture held sway. Game developers developed for the lowest hardware. Comoddore 128 had a 64 built in, and instead of making use of the 128s capabilities, most developers kept developing for the C64 knowing they get both markets. Atari STs, although more powerful versions were around, games were made first with the lowest specs in mind, and perhaps they may add some bells and whistles for the more powerful STs. Commodore Amiga with their Ideas of 2000s and up being business machines for graphics houses and special effects houses for tv shows, and the 500 for the gamer produced an even more segmented user base; and the same developing games culture prevailed; develop for the 500 first and foremost, and basically forget about the others. The result was of course, and there was no real incentive for the gamers on those machines to upgrade that machine. Which meant that neither Commodore/Atari had intensive to push the hardware to its limits and since their hardware was proprietary there were no other hardware manufacturers who would. Now there were several game developers who started in that microcomputer world who were fed up with this, they were the most innovative and creative development houses on the block and they jumped ship to the PC. These were legendary creators like Origan from Ultima and Wing Commander fame, Westwood studios who would create the RTS genre with Dune 2 and then Command & Conguer; Looking Glass from Ultima Underworld and System Shock, LucasArts from the Secret of Monkey Island and the Star Wars space fighter simulators, Sierra On-Line, Bullfrog, Maxis, etc. etc., not to mention a little known software company called Id Software. They didn't go in to create a game for the lowest spec computers, no, no, even though that may cost them some sales, they trusted their creative instincts and deliberately started making games to push all consumer grade hardware even high end stuff to their ultimate limits; and they were right, for the games on the PC, they willing to pay for the machines needed to play these games. Compare the games for the Amiga during the late eighties to 1993, and compare the same time for DOS. In 88 / 89 Amiga and ST utterly kicks DOS's ass, brilliant sprites, fantastic scrolling, great music and sound; and by 1993 that's what most games still are. They've barely changed, gotten only slightly better graphics, and would still be playing similar type of games. Now let's look over at DOS; in early 1990 the first Commander Keen trilogy and Duke Nukem sidescroller is the best the PC had to offer when it came to platformers, and they were shit compared all the systems out there, later that year would see the 256 color release of Prince of Persia that would introduce players to smooth rotoscoped animated characters superior to its release on any other system, The Secret of Monkey Island and King's Quest five would bring 256 color brilliant graphics as a must, while revolutionizing the adventure genre into point and click, Wing Commander would revolutionize Space Fighter simulations with superior graphics and superior story telling, Red Baron would revolutionize flight simulators, only to be revolutionized again less than a year later by Falcon 3.0, where the developer happily said, "Oh, you have a very powerful expensive 80386, did you install a mathematical co-processor for even more money? Ooh... sorry, our game will not run for you, if you're gonna upgrade, you might wanna go with 80486 who have those things built in right away, oh and still expect your 80486 to smoke." In the same year, Commander Keen Dreams would introduce some of the smoothest scrolling any computer has ever seen, not to mention a protagonist sprite more detailed, bigger, and with more animation frames than the platformers on any rival systems. By 1992, Ultima Underworld would be the first real time First Person game that was not limited to wire-frames, it was not a 2D game mimicking 3D, it had multiple levels, lighting, textured ceilings and floors, was not limited to straights corners, in fact it wasn't even limited to straight walls it had actual round walls; and that's just the graphics revolution it brought, gameplay, holy crap, of course, it had to keep the screen with the action to only about half the size or it would have literally fried pcs at the time; two months later fullscreen FPS action would arrive in Wolfenstein 3D; the same year Ultima 7 The Black Gate would bring 80386s down to its needs and revolutionize top-down RPGs, and units verbally acknowledging your orders in the first RTS Dune 2, would bring an explosion to Sound Blaster 2 sound card sales and boost a massive revolution in the next years of ever improving and selling sound cards, and then, then came 1993. That is the year, doom would come to the Micro computer market, it's the year C64 finally would be replaced, and the Atari ST and Amiga end any pretensions they still stood a chance, this came of course, appropriately and ironically enough, at hands of DOOM. The three key differences: open architecture and competition in hardware that came with it, developers willing to push that hardware to the limit, and gamers willing to buy the hardware to play them. You know, I wish retro channels would do a video or a series on the rise of the PC as a gaming machine; until now anything I've ever seen is always a bit on the hardware, or a bit a specific iconic MS-DOS software house of the 80s, or it always starts at the 90s; never has there been a neat retrospective of the earliest PC games and compared them with the microcomputers, and then go in depth into these three revolutionary years, and the reasons why both the company culture and the use culture meant the death of those machines once inevitably the open architecture and the culture that came with it would make these revolutionary years inevitable.
@@3dmaster205 is this comment going to be published in hard copy? I would like to read it but my micro doesn't have enough storage to store it all and my dot matrix printer only has half an ink ribbon left.
@@3dmaster205 Duke Nukem actually came out in 1991 and the first Commander Keen appeared in December 1990. King's Quest V using full VGA was already out in November 1990. The Commander Keen series and Duke Nukem continued using EGA in late 1990/into 1991 because the trick known as Adaptive Tile Refresh could only be done in EGA to allow for similar side-scrolling action like you can get on the NES. Surprising there are games using VGA prior to 1990, the earliest being Rockford the Arcade Game displaying 32 colors from December 1987, but most early use of VGA only used the same 16 colors as EGA for PS/2 users that only had MCGA. 688 Attack Sub from 1989 was the first game to display nearly 256 colors. Secret of Monkey island first appeared in EGA, but the VGA version did come out a little later, but Monkey Island 2 was VGA right from the very beginning.
@@3dmaster205I cannot believe you attempted to tell the history of PCs through gaming. The fact it wasn't a gaming machine is the only reason the PC survived long enough to become what it is.
9:42 DOS 3.3 was the version where the disk error prompt was changed from “Abort, Retry, Ignore?” to “Abort, Retry, Fail?”. PC Magazine adopted the new prompt as the title of their column of tales about hilarious screwups involving computers.
Imagine if it had become a RU-vid meme. As it was, in 1987, only a couple of million computer enthusiasts watching public-access cable or PBS or whatever channel it was on saw it at the time.
When I was a kid we used Ibm PS/2 (model 35 or 56?) until around 97 0r 8 when my school updated to windows 95, I remember how the kids used to switch all the keys on these old keyboards, I used to love the cartooners game.
27:16 Forget all the high tech stuff in this episode. The news about the perforated edge remover doubling as a ruler is what we should be talking about.
I feel for that guy struggling to take the computer apart. I've worked with so many models of so many computers for my company that no matter how expert I am, I could never do the shit live... Give me a few minutes and sure - just gotta take my time and remember. But you can't do that on public access tv! No time D: EDIT: also, Jan Lewis in that gaudy 80s attire... yikes. She terrifies me on a good day, but this was just bad.
6:09 -“easy”- “costly”. The licensing charges IBM was demanding for Micro Channel were best described as “punitive”. This was IBM’s last-gasp attempt to reclaim some dominance over the PC world. It partially succeeded, but in a way it also hastened their decline.
People seems to be under-predicting just how much of a failure the ps2 would be in putting IBM back in charge of the platform. Except for the famous Mr Buzzkill John C Dvorak.
IBM PC computers were always very expensive and not affordable to anyone. What helped the spread of computers to the masses was the clone of IBM bios on motherboards. That permitted third party companies to produce "compatible" PC computers at a fraction of IBM PC prices. Of course totally compatibility was never achieved but Microsoft tried to circumvent that and increase its profits tremendously. The greatest mistake of IBM was that didn't acted very strongly legally as it should.
It could be said that one of IBM's 'greatest mistakes' is that they rushed the original PC, using off the shelf parts. At one point, IBM OWNED the business computer space, simply because their name legitimized it. Had their hardware been more proprietary, it is possible that they could have kept that ownership - at least until an inevitable anti-trust breakup. But no, their GREATEST mistake was in letting Microsoft OWN them, instead of the other way around. They should have bought MS or Digital Research right out instead of trying to license the software. Software was ever IBM's blind spot. They didn't understand the importance of software - particularly 3rd party software. They couldn't possibly see the clones coming, nor how Microsoft would inevitably control the direction of the market. By the time the clones were running Windows, it was too late to purchase Microsoft. IBM's only answer was to try and reclaim their proprietary status with PS/2 and OS/2, and both had only moderate success.
@@Chordonblue Not just software, but specifically the OS. I doubt Gary Killdall (cohost in this show) would have sold DRI. And Bill Gates definitely wouldn't have sold MS. They should have thrown enough money at MS to either lock them into a contract to not allow them to relicense the OS or bought the OS outright and developed it inhouse. OS/2's biggest impediment was that IBM partnered with MS to develop it, and MS has a vested interest in OS/2 not succeeding, since it would have superceded Windows. OS/2 2.0 was a full 32-bit OS, with an OO desktop. A few years prior to Win 95, which still ran on top of 16-bit MS-DOS and didn't have an OO desktop.
One of the issues of the consumers not widely embracing PCs back then was the expense. They were, on average, in 2023 dollars [US], selling for around $8K ~ $10K; or in 1987 dollars, around $2K ~ $3K in price.
Actually when you do the comparison the Model 25 PS/2 was genuinely good value when you compare it to clone machines of the time. Especially when you consider the excellent keyboard, 720k floppy and 256 colour graphics when most clone machines in that price range (once you account for the monitor) still came with 360k drives and EGA if you're lucky or Plantronics if you got duped. Although just two ISA slots is kinda painful...
IBM could have saved on all the other development costs and just released the only portion of the new systems that was ever adopted: the ps/2 keyboard and mouse ports.
Will the ps/2 be popular in education? I'd say yes. These were literaly the ONLY computers (diffrent ps/2 models) in my Jr. and Sr. highschools. In my district, it absolutely replaced the apple iie's and iigs's in the classroom.
I was the asst to the head of the computer dept at my public HS. We had 6000 students at our peak (2nd largest east of the Mississippi). Our school had an IBM mainframe and went PS/2 during 88/89 school year. I helped set up our first PS/2 LAN (I remember having fun chatting with my friends I had recruited--to "test" the LAN--so novel at the time). I taught staff how to use them and went around to systems with a tape drive to back them up. And I desktop published the literary magazine on a PS/2 model 30 with PageMaker in Windows 2.
20:45 to the guy's credit, although he implied that consumers would never be able to buy airplane tickets online, he did add the important part of "without any risk transfer". When was the last time you were able to reserve a revenue ticket to Paris without a means of payment, with payment implied when you got to the airport?
Yeah but that never worked like that. It didn't work like that when War Games was being written, the writer made it up. They never allowed you to do that because they learned their lesson from the very early days of telephone booking. The closest to it is that Mitnick once booked an entire greyhound bus for himself. But he charged it to someone else's credit card. He didn't just "book it".
To be fair, Jobs was long gone by then. And he actually wanted (or the word demanded is a better way of saying it) to lower the price of the Mac's at that time dramatically but John Sculley refused.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Kinda, there are plenty of reports of Jobs' attitude to pricing. The powerful computer that was cheap (IIgs) he probably deliberately crippled.
The only thing which became standard thanks to PS/2 was PS/2 keyboard and mouse connectors popular in 90's and 00's. MCA bus was biggest flow in PC history and surplus of MCA ports were used by VLB bus for 486 computers. Of course OS/2 was a failure. Maybe if IBM was faster in bringing up OS/2 and wasn't so stingy with MCA it would be more popular. Given however comparable EISA wasn't at all popular (never saw PC with EISA slot ever...) it seems PC industry didn't need this kind of slow 32-bit bus. At least for home it wasn't needed until 486 came out and then home computers got much faster VLB bus anyways.
