Test Spread Sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XQ-GY-3xR_Zlp88WD5sbxgVc7twro4yGXrUHUIm1CRU/edit?usp=sharing Plane Iron test Spread Sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BX7Reja0P8bI78Pe1DgVy-5D7WD8YuDzg_q4Z3qIlH8/edit?usp=sharing Paul sellers video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GOlLVtz3RCI.html
Somewhat related to this is the old question of whether to lift the plane on a backstroke or just pull it back over the wood. I've heard Paul Sellers talk about how simply pulling back after a stroke actually burnishes the edge of the blade instead of dulling it. That would be interesting to see tested
Fireball Tools tested lifting vs backstroke on a file on metal and concluded that there is very little difference. I would suspect the same is true of plane on wood though it would be interesting to see. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xbykic--SKA.html
Great set of data. I only had the one data point from setting on its side - sliced a whole chunk out of a knuckle. So for 40 years I’ve been a face down sort of guy and not been damaged since. Like others would love to see the data of lift up or not on the back stroke. Great work James.
Awesome test James... 100% agree with putting it on its sole. I'd be curious to see what the effect of putting it on its side might have on inducing errors in the blade position laterally. I know that there are a lot of variables that could affect this one (weight of the iron/chipbreaker, tightness of the lever cap and so on...) - but it would still be fun to see! Might actually give even more support to the practice of setting planes down on the sole. Thanks again - I absolutely love your quest for empirical perfection!
What convinced me was just someone pointing out that to adjust a plane laterally, you often will just tap the side with a hammer, which is exactly what you do when you put it down on the side
I just have a 1/8' thick piece of scrap wood that I keep on the bench and got in the habit of setting the toe of the sole on the wood ( keeping the blade off the bench). Also, people who "talk with their hands" while holding an uncovered blade make me nervous.
I agree that he next, related, plane iron controversy to test would be whether it's better to lift the plane on the return stroke or if it's okay to drag it back over the workpiece. What do you think?
I set on sole. Not sitting it on concrete it metal but wooden benches...I actually started putting them on the sides when I first started but figured I'm ramming it into wood and knots so just sitting shouldn't hurt. We'll see at the end
Part of my enjoyment of your channel is reading your shirts. It actually detracts from the video until I have made out what it says. As such, I did want to suggest that you start the show by first showing your shirt. This episode however was great at 3 minutes and 12 seconds, when your shirt folded in such a way as to hide the "r" in the word shirt. Great channel and thanks.
enough people asked for it so I started making a monthly Dad joke shirt. If you want to get in one the first one here is the link. www.woodbywright.com/shop
Finally data! I've always been a blade down boy myself. When I want to make sure things stay extra sharp (even if it's negligible) is to set the plane down so it bridges the tool tray. Blade down, but with air beneath the blade.
I have been doing woodwork for over 60 years. In my first shop class in the 7th grade we were taught to put a plane down on its side. I still do it. I place it on its side with the blade away from me. I have never noticed any lateral adjustment problem, I have never lost a finger or part of a finger to the blade, and I cannot remember ever running a metal tool into the blade. This is an interesting study and I appreciate your time and effort. With my putting it on its side for over 60 years with no damage compared to placing it on its sole for 60 years, there is a significant difference. With that said, my true feelings are, I have never seen so much argument about anything so insignificant in my life. Sole or side, who really cares? I will continue to put my planes on their side only because a 60 year old habit is hard to break. If you want to put yours in its sole, I couldn't care less. You do great woodwork and that is much more important to me and I hope all of your listeners. I suppose I am ranting a bit, but seriously why did this argument ever come up? I did read a comment on a different channel where the man sets his on its sole on a very lightly oiled piece of carpet. I think that is absolutely the best reason I have ever heard for setting a plane on its sole. It saves a lot of time oiling the sole. I wish I could remember the man's name, I would gladly give him the credit for saying it. Probably no damage at all to the plane iron. Keep putting out the great videos. Thanks.
I put my planes down on the sole but when I put my planes away at the end of a job I retract the blade just a little, no idea if this achieves anything, but it is just a habit I got into.
The missing test that would be cool to see is if the blade is deflected when setting it on its side. I was already a "put it on its sole" guy and I remember Paul's video. Also Rob Cosmans, but it would be cool to see if setting it on its side actually does put the iron out of square.
I like how you kept the metal tools so close the plane on the bench top as you dropped it. Every time coming so close to landing on them from this camera angle at least. I’m sure it had the die hards seeing red. you encouragible troll you!
Great info, as always, James! To nit pick a bit, the setting down was fairly carefully done, so the blade was never caught by the surface, as might happen with less careful people. (read: me). But even with that, it seems that the amount of wear that would happen wouldn't amount to much over the life of a sharpening.
EXCELLENT! Thanks for "taking one for the Gipper" on this. I would suggest that there's good justification for "on the side" on a mixed use bench that is used for wood and metal working. Swarf embedded in the wood is more likely to ding the edge of a sharp blade. But for a full on wood only shop I think you neatly set this one to rest. I feel there's far more risk of damage to the operator as well as the edge for an exposed blade. Early on reading things like James Krenov and others in the 80's and 90's I leaned towards making a LOT of my non cutting tools from wood. This was fun as well as making for an "edge safer" work bench... I suppose. But mostly it's fun to use tools that I made... Of course there's one other option that will silence ALL of the protesters... A small stick of wood on the bench and set the planes down so they sit tilted and the edge is floating in air? Oh, I suppose some would start claiming that the body will bow over time from gravity.... :D..... When the side only protesters show up to tar and feather you as a heretic I'll be the one way in the back smiling and waving ! :D
That last option is what I've been doing lately. It's like using a knife rest on a fine dining table. It's nearly as faaancy as James W with his clean grit-free bench top.
I usually put it sole down with the mouth/blade over the toolwell. I think Paul Sellers mentioned the risk of messing up the lateral adjustment of the blade if you set it down on the side.
I think worry about setting the plane sole down on clean wood surfaces is as silly as worrying about lateral adjustment displacement by laying it sideways. The problem is that putting a plane on its sole on a dirty surface is plausible, and could be modeled by setting it on sandpaper. Habits protect you from making certain mistakes, and you need to be more alert to protect from others. People like to divide up tasks differently.
On the side of the argument to put it on it sole I have recently seen a video (cannot remember who did it) that brought a good argument that is not brought very often and make sense to me at least. Usually the iron on the plane is not set to an heavy cut and the bench has not been flattened right before you put your plane on it so they are good chances that the iron doesn't even touch the bench even if you put down the plane on its sole.
If one is still concerned, one could rest the sole on a popsicle stick or other thin scrap so that the edge of the iron is hanging rather than rested on. I was hoping you would also debunk the claim that resting a plane on its side messes up the lateral adjustment.
Great test James. I've always put my planes, both metal and timber, sole down on the bench under the premise that my bench surface was softer than the plane iron. Also placing the plane on its side can knock the iron out of alignment, either accidentally hitting the lateral adjustment, or a shift of the iron when setting it on its side.
I never lay my planes on their sides unless circumstances force me to put them down on a surface other than wood. Usually I have a dedicated piece of soft wood (a "landing strip" if you will) on which to rest my planes...long term storage is always in an anti-rust sock, with the iron fully retracted. A plane is a precision instrument, not a hacking tool, and it should always be treated as such.
I could watch a hundred videos from professional woodworkers about their opinions and experiences about this, but one proper video of actual testing data trumps it all. Thank you.
Heh, my FIL saw my planes set in their cabinets and told me authoritatively that I shouldnt be setting my planes on their soles. I told him this was a myth and that many very knowledgeable craftsman have said as such, but he wasnt completely convinced. Nice to see some science applied to this argument.
I'm surprised that you never refereed to your test as a Design of Experiment (DOE)... I'm a Quality Engineer and that is exactly what it is... Very good video!
I love this! Awesome data! When I was a kid, the only plane I owned was a block plane, and someone told me to always set it down on its side to avoid damaging the edge. Many years later, as I was getting more into woodworking I saw the Paul Sellers video you mentioned, and at about the same time I acquired more planes. (Paul Sellers is in favor of sole-down, as you know.) The result? Sometimes when I'm setting a plane down I will absent-mindedly put a block plane down on its side, even though I put other planes down on their sole. 😄
My grandfather's generation were taught to put it on its sole. My father's generation were taught on its side. I follow my grandfather's advice because a plane on its side seems daft.
A thought place one of your planes on its side on your busy bench, just leave it do your stuff around it and see if you hit it or knock it off the bench. Try not to be over conscientious of it and see.
First, great info! If anyone wants to be safe and do no damage to the blade put a small scrap on the bench and put one end of the sole on it. Blade off bench and fingers and chances of foriegn object damage nil. Who doesnt have a small piece of scrap wood?
Thanks for this, it just shows that my Dad and my school woodwork teacher new what they were talking about as they both scolded me for leaving the plane on its side. Love your channel.👍
Considered this results and the risk of hurting yourself... Yeah, that's a no brainer! Fantastic work, James! Thanks!!! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Very good job and should satisfy anyone in doubt. I always set my plane iron down. It’s just to easy to cut yourself or nick the blade and then it’s time to sharpen it wasting more steel and time. Finally, a spread sheet I can make sense of. I’ve never been able to make sense of very complex SS. Tell me to make a very complex joint, piece of cake.
You are my personal hero, James. Thanks a ton for this test! I really appreciate the effort that went into busting this myth :) I have always been of the sole-setting conviction, but from this day on I will put my planes down with a little bit of extra pride.
Since things of my work bench rarely stay in the same place for long I would think that part of your test would have been to set the plane down and them push it around a bit as in moving it to make room for something else. Other than that I find no error in your testing. BTW Rob Cosman advocates the sole down method too. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.
It amazes me that so many people are willing to argue over something so trivial. I guess that's why YT is so popular. I guess I feel like they're my tools and I'll put them down how I choose.
Really enjoyed this one, and glad to see some science confirming what I already believed! Another test I’d love to see would be comparing the 3 diamond plates + strop method of sharpening to using fancy million-grit waterstones and all the extra microbevels. My guess is that either the strop will serve as an equalizer, or the waterstones will give you a sharper edge initially that would quickly “dull” down to the same level as the diamond plates after a taking a few shavings.
I did that one a wile ago. they give you the same edge. they can both get to the same sharpness and dull out about the same speed. the water stones leave more of a polish on the blade, but that does not change the sharpness. just the look.
Nice. It confirms what I do. If the iron can dull setting it on a wooden bench top how will it maintain after using it on wood. Thanks for the confirmation I am doing it right!
Going by the method you used to set the plane down and the heavy brass knob, normal placing the plane down would make 3 parts of bugger all difference to the edge.... BTW, it drives me bonkers when I see planes layed on thier side😂
I get more degradation from Arkansas humidity overnight than that! Lol, I set tools down not toss them like a toddler throwing a fit. Mostly because I got tired of chasing down that unoffending tool.
I think the material you set the plane down on is also a factor. For a while I was using a low workbench and would set my plane down on the concrete deck I was at (as benchtop space was a premium since I also sat on it), so I would set it on its side so the cement wouldn't damage the edge. I never tested to see how much damage it would have done, but I can't imagine it would do as little as setting it down on wood.
Yeah if you have concrete or metal put it on its side or set down something to put the plane on. A lot of people make a small carpet bed that they can fill with oil and set the plane on that.
My woodshop teacher said "side" therefore side... In my shop I say "sole" therefore sole! My shop my rules... James' shop James' rules! And James just proved he's wright!
I agree with your conclusion that it's not worth worrying about how you set down a plane. But I think one of the arguments against setting it on its sole is that you might set it on some grit or on something else that would nick the blade. I don't think most people are worrying about the effect of just setting it on a clean piece of wood. So while this is an interesting test, I don't think it necessarily addresses the main argument.
I have always heard from people that the reason not to place it on its side is that you could knock your blade's lateral adjustment out of whack slightly, and over time could end up with a much thicker shaving on one side than the other, resulting in gouged workpieces, or at least unsquare.
Also what I've heard, but if you think about it .... aren't we always aware of the plane's behavior? I think we'd notice it being out of square fairly quickly.
I’ve never got into the argument, I set it on the sole. I don’t bother with people who argue that it’s incorrect, if there that dumb I don’t want them in my life anyway!
Great video as always, purely out of interest, I'd like to see what effect there is on the iron by putting the plane down on a brass surface and if little effect then moving up through different materials. And as others have already said I'd be more interested in what effect putting the plane down 100 times on it's side has to the lateral position of the iron.
It won't bring anything to the argument because I guess it is lot less than 100 but now I'm interested in knowing an average on the number of time one put a plane down between sharpening
Hello James. I started woodworking as a hobby when I was in junior high school. Now in my 70's, and I have always set the plane on its sole. The darn things were made to cut wood, so how is a wooden bench top doing anymore harm than a piece of oak or hickory that one is planning. Btw, my grandfather taught me to set it on it's sole. Good video, keep them coming.
On one occasion, I was carrying a plane from my workshop to another location, and parked it on the kitchen counter. In that case, it’s clearly best to lay it on its side. Otherwise, you risk damaging the countertop, or the blade, or both.
Here's a test: does it matter if you lift the plane up during the back stroke? Good info this one. I'll no longer have that nagging feeling in my head when I sit the plane down flat.
My friend told me to put a small piece of wood under the heel when stroring planes flat on the sole to protect the iron. Guess, I won't be doing that anymore
Great stuff,is there any similar material relating to the optimal angle of the cutting iron to get the sharpest and the most durable edge,is the tradeoff between sharpness and durability based on unscientific tradition and could it be improved.I would suggest two irons sharpened at 25 and 30 degrees and then take a number of shavings on each before progressively applying a micro bevel in 1 degree increments doing the same number of shavings each time,in a relatively short time you would have data from 25 to 35 degrees,what is the best angle for hard wood versus soft timber? Keep it up James♡♡♡
I've done a couple tests on that in the past. I have a plain iron test where I ran a bunch of plane irons through the same test for durability and sharpen ability. But I also tested the angle. The trade-off is between durability and how quickly the plane engages on a flat surface. Surprisingly, there is no change in sharpness between a high angle and a low angle. After doing all the testing, I know sharpen all of my planes around 35 to 40°. The only benefit to a lower angle is it will engage ever so slightly faster into the wood if you're starting in the middle of the board. However, the higher angle is far more durable in the edge will last far longer.
So my take away is, If I can sharpen to a scale of 70 to 75, I should be able to remove light rust and mill scale from my metal projects. Thanks James!!!
There is one other thing setting it on its side can do that setting it on its sole will not. It can knock the blade out of alignment so that you have to readjust your iron to resume planing. I am not talking far out of alignment, just a small bit.
Well James I don’t give a rats a&& how anyone puts their plane down but it was worth watching the video just to look at your cool shirt . I hope this video goes viral for ya.
Hi yall my names is James Wright and welcome to woodbusters... Errr I mean my shop :) I love this episode!! Ooh and that sharpness tester, great device!! Do you have to replace the material/gel every time you do a new test?
Thanks. Yes, the filament is in a spool in the bottom of the tester and each test uses about an inch and a half of the filament. So far I've done somewhere around 6,000 tests on this one over all of the studies I've done on chisels and blades.
When I use my block planes on a piece clampped on my table saw, I set it down on its side, and that is the only situation I can think of. Why I clamp work pieces on my table saw intead of my workbench? Well, your bench is not covered by random stuff?
I have often thought of what else other than the bench top would effect the cutting edge. Sand paper loose grits, dust, dirt etc. I know it would be minimal at best, but resting on the side or (my favourite method is) to rest it sole down on some shavings removes all risks. One factor often not considered with sole down is the plane being pushed out of the way, bumped and dragged during work.
Would setting the plane up for a thicker shaving, i.e. more blade protruding, have any effect? (Setting it up for a 3 or 4000th would also make for a better looking spreadsheet) :) Have a great day
