The Cruelty Of Modern Medicine 

"don't talk to me about money, I have money. it's about principle" LEGEND !!

"The man has his hand on the door knob half the time I'm there" Crazy how true this is =(

I CANNOT be the only one that laughs at the part where John gets all philosophical and shit and then suddenly says "piranhaaaa..." LMAO

This is an accurate representation of just how cruel and borderline criminal the American healthcare system is. The fact it's being portrayed by a Canadian actor is the icing on the cake.

John Kramer's voice is so (strangely) relaxing...anyone else out there ASMR-ish?

I was so disappointed that John wasn't inspired to build a piranha trap after this.

Maaan John Cramer's voice is so calm and the intensity in his eyes can pierce right through your soul. Tobin Bell is a wonderful actor-clearly he's the reason why these films weren't a typical bloody horror franchise.

"You think its the living who have ultimate judgement over you, because the dead have no claim over your soul". best line ever

I'm a blood cancer survivor. I understood this kind of phenomenon beforehand but having survived cancer and having had to go through a literal 3 ring cancer fight with my cancer for the most basic of treatment and care, I can attest to the pure agony and frustration John goes through. I'm going to be real, I hate that it took cancer to make me truly appreciate the story behind these movies (I loved them before but after the cancer diagnosis? A WHOLE new type of love and appreciation for the storyline of these movies), but even though John and my cancer were two different types of cancer, I can completely relate to the HELL that is dealing with insurance companies.

I can just imagine how everyday life with Jigsaw would go. "Sorry John, we ran out of chicken fingers. Would you like to order something else or get your money back?" John: "I won't be paying, but you will." Three days later: "Hello Ronald. I want to play a game. Three days ago you denied me three chicken fingers. You offered me another choice of equivalent value. Well now I'm ready to order. Except the finger are yours. On the table in front of you is a device of my own creation. You'll find it is quite adept at removing fingers. If you do not allow it to remove three of your fingers before the time runs out, the guillotine will drop, decapitating you. Live or die. The choice is yours."

Piranha are predators, known for viciously preying on unsuspecting animals, and sometimes even on each other when food supply is low and he sees that as a fitting metaphor for William's insurance company.

John really knows how to make some one feel uncomfortable

Obviously Tobin Bell is at a great height as an actor here but Peter Outerbridge (the insurance executive) is doing a great job too. Comes off as a "trying to be sympathetic yet has to be firm about his company's policy" really well.

“ The man has his hand on the door knob half the time that I’m in there” really cuts deeper and hits closer to home than it has any right to...

He is talking about the treatment in Saw X!!!

Can we all sit here and appreciate the fact that Saw X was made based on a throwaway line from this film about the Cancer Doctor?

Tobin Bell balances the line between a man with legitimate grievances and a complete psychopath so well that many saw fans are able to sympathize with a maniacal murderer. The character of John Kramer is absolutely perfectly crafted and is a great example of how simple problems within modern culture can lead a man to become this way

This is the truth of modern medicine. You shouldn't have to die for how old you are or how bad your diagnosis is. You should be able to have the treatment then pay for it

"piranha"... cracks me up everytime!

Love how they’re turning this detail into the premise for saw 10.

"You think it's the living that will have the ultimate judgement over you because the dead will have no claim over your soul but you may be mistaken" John kramer Best line ever.

Looking back on this scene especially with the 10th movie about to release (two days as of posting this comment) I find it amazing that William wasn't really lying that this treatment really would not work. In fact, it's a downright scam. Make no mistake, William did get what was coming to him, but at least with this new context and information in this upcoming film, it sheds a light on why John chose the path he did for William. I think John really did want William to live in the end, and to learn from what he went through, but it was ultimately placed on the hands of someone who was directly hurt by Will's actions, and their ability to forgive and choose mercy.

One thing I’ve learned from the saw franchise is to never piss off an engineer.

You think its the living who have ultimate judgement over you, because the dead have no claim over your soul- Damn if someone said that to me, Id be scared shitless lol.

I agree man. It's scary when you watch this scene because there are many people like this guy in real life who also try to turn down insurance claims for whatever reason just to make more money. A friend of my mother used to work at an insurance company making six figures by finding ways to turn down insurance claims. One day though, a woman came into her office and told her that she was the reason for her father's death. She felt hit hard emotionally and quit shortly after.

Ah my favorite scene in this movie. John makes a lot of sense, which is why I love this movie; not for the gore but for the story.

It’s no wonder *John* is the way he is. *He’s not just poetically wise for a serial killer, but also very smart at engineering and thinking as well.*

After watching this scene, I now have the highest respect for Jigsaw

piranha. but back on topic, i can imagine that the last thought that William when Kramer left was "Jesus this is the creepiest guy I have seen".

The American healthcare system really is like this. The amount of times I see people having to make GoFundMe pages to get potentially lifesaving medical treatment because either they cannot afford insurance or their insurance company will not pay for something is embarrassing. Imagine, having to beg for money in order to get the chance to live. And people really think this is the land of opportunity.

Laughed so fucking hard when he said "it's run by the fuckin' insurance companies," Knew he was really pissed...

I feel so bad for john, I may sound wrong here but I'm on his side

I’m here after Saw X. It’s likely that John is talking about Cecilia’s father here

I love the last line. That was the whole point of his game. The living (Tara and Brett) have the judgment over Will's life, but the point is that the dead (the people who died in his tests) will be avenged. He is at the end of it all a murderer and as we all know, Jigsaw despises murderers. But I wonder, because Brett decided to kill Will, will Brett be put in another trap in the future?

Those who do not appreciate life do not deserve life.

After watching Saw X, you can now understand why William and his heath insurance company denied John coverage. I have to say, I feel bad for William and his colleagues now. They died because they denied John coverage for a treatment which in the end turned out to be a scam.

I really love such scenes of John and the actor is doing an amazing job!

**big speech about insurance companies choosing money over life** "p i r a n h a"

In William’s defence, 30-40% survival chance is pretty low. But that still doesn’t justify his treatment of John.

Jigsaw for president.... man if you understand these few scenes in these movies you really understand the political and economic challenges the world faces in modern time. Everything John said is 100% true and correct. It is exactly what we face. Americans choose to let insurance companies call all the shots and put profit first over health. It is a much more efficient system for people's health to "pay for what they want" ex: pure tax based system like U.K. Canada etc. sure there are negative quarks to their systems but not nearly as negative as the evil profit driven health system we have. In recent years we saw a tiny bit of government healthcare with the "Obama" care. But it is like building a bridge and stopping half way. We either need to transition to a full United States health system for any and all citizens funded by taxes or we need to do nothing. A bridge half way only makes certain people be allowed to jump the remaining distance. Obama earned a lot of respect in my opinion for even being able to get congress to move a bit. Trump... doesn't look like he is going to do anything for healthcare not anything in the right direction.

This scene is now so much better after watching Saw X.

When you realize the treatment John found is The Pederson Project in Saw X

It's been seven years why did this get *more* relevant

It's never a good idea to piss of John Kramer

I loled so hard at the "Piranha" bit, not sure if it has a hidden meaning or symbolises something, but still funny :) John kramer is fucking amazing! He is what make's Saw so awesome

"we got it all ass backwards here"... BEST QUOTE EVER!!!

"health care decisions should be made by doctors and the patients not by the government" as a doctor I have to say that´s magnificent :D

Love him or hate him. John Kramer makes sense and provides reasonable points. Much respect for him.

0:32 its AMAZING how this small plot point ended up being the seed that would be the catalyst of Saw X which alone is a fantastic movie!

1:40-1:52 epic transition from human to predator

This scene is related to SAW X now!!

I just realized John was trying to get insurance for the surgery in Saw X...After watching Saw X the insurance guy doesnt seem so wrong after all.

3:12 - 3:22 my favourite line “that was down right slick” 😂😂😂 who wrote this script

Came here after Saw X trailer, and it mentions Norway, love how it's all connected!

People really overlook the Saw franchise as just another gory horror movie but there is so much social and psychological commentary in them.

Spoilers for the Deleted Scenes of _Saw X:_ Evidently a slightly shortened and modified version of this scene was almost included in _Saw X,_ with the dialogue lightly changed to imply he's talking about Cecilia's treatment. (Basically just changing "he" to "she.") Kinda wish they had included it. The slight continuity error would have been worth it just to tie it together.

I could never get behind John Kramer being the “good guy getting people to appreciate life” point of view or the belief that he never killed anyone but I was entirely on his side during this situation and probably the only time I could see doing what he did to go after truly corrupt people.

This scene hits so differently after Saw X. They were already writing one of the top 5 saw films and they didn't even know it yet.

My friend has brain cancer, and he is only 40. Has had 2 surgeries for it in the last 6 months. His only fear in his life was cancer as it took his mother. He always said when he talked about it in the 20+ years I've known him, he doesn't want to die that way. I have to call him soon to see how its "going". He got news that spurred him to get 2nd opinions in far away places.... Its hard to even type this and not cry because i love my friend.

john later spent all his pension on making deadly traps....

Honestly after seeing saw x, i realized william wasn't declining it to his benefit, he was declining it to help john

He wasn't Jigsaw at this point in time, he was John Krammer the man

That doctor in Norway was Cecilia's father

The way John Kramer speaks, its very powerful.

I love how hes talking serious stuff them just randomly goes...."piranna" lmao!!!😄

"you think its the living that has ultimate judgement over you, because the dead has no claim over your soul but you may be mistaken" -John Kramer cant get that quote out of my head

Trying to imitate John Kramer's voice is a oddly effective way to practice my vocals.

Kinda sad how I already knew Williams’s answer before he uttered a word.

"The cruelty of modern medicine" sad facts.

I love the subtle acting here. Easton gives John some sympathetic looks, but once John can tell he's not getting what he wants, he turns away, having concluded that Easton doesn't care in the slightest.

John's right about how they treat doctors now a days they should be taking care of us when we need them and we should help and support them when we don't need them. I personally think Will is a greedy capatilist who just wants to follow in hyprocritical politicians footsteps.

2:35 "piranha" lmfao

As an American myself I often wonder if healthcare in this country is really about keeping people 100% healthy, or just barely healthy enough for them to function but never be fully healed so they can keep charging them money for treatment every step of the way

This one and third installment were my favorites. This one especially, on one hand, Will shows us all the insensitivity behind insurance companies (he probably got used to it after years and years of doing it), he made me really hate him, but then on the other hand when he got to the game, I couldn't help but cheer for him. Probably the one contestant I wanted to win the most out of all Saw movies. He acted truly heroically, without whining and felt real sadness for all the deaths. He also had an elderly secretary, not a blonde trophy bimbo like most CEO types, he loved his girlfriend and treated her well, he tried to save as many people as he could and was willing to go through pain without a second tought to save as many as he could. In the end his fate was to be decided by someone else just like he did to many people. I wanted him to live based on how graceful he behaved during the game. Nothing really is ever black and white.

“That rolled off your tongue real smooth” CHILLS

My goal in life is to be John Kramer

Holy shit. He's talking about the saw x treatment. The continuity of these films out stands me!

When someone says sorry after a statement like that it usually means they themselves know their policy is wrong and that their customers death is inevitable in the end. So their sorry really means "sorry for your eventual death and that our policy doesn't meet your needs but that's how our company does business."

This has more to do with cruelty of insurance companies rather than medicine.

My mom died from breast cancer and i hate the insurance companies and the Drug companies, they profit of people, with cancer, withholding treatments with high sucess rate.. I'm gonna go back to school soon and when I do I will find the cure, mom I'm sorry I couldn't save u, I love u mom, this isn't a joke either, watching this only fuels my want to cure every illness out there

The Saw franchise is a lot smarter and deeper than people give it credit for. At least the good movies.

I’m going to send this to my insurance company for denying me a surgery

Reminds of me trying to ask for a raise but, the company has excuses not to give me one. With their formula stating its not in the budget.

I loved this movie, by far my favorite SAW. As a person who has similar battles with corrupt companies like John has. I enjoyed every single second of Williams game and watching him suffer.

The execution of the single word, “piranha” was perfect. The sudden audio cut and the focus shot. Brilliant!

Shit, he's intense.

So in Saw X we are going to find out that the William, the Healthcare executive, was right? The procedure John wanted was not effective? Seems William’s fate was a bit harsh then

the treatment that jigsaw is talking about is that of Saw x

"Dont talk to me about money, i have money" *Whips out a Dollar Note*

So this is where Saw X begins...

I've never really been a big fan of the saw series, but damn if they don't churn out some powerful scenes.

It's so crazy this is 100% true now a days

You know that when Jigsaw/John uses profanity you're in trouble

30 to 40% success rate are not good odds, John. No wonder the insurance company didn't want to gamble on it.

What john said here about the far east is absolutely true. They pay a mandatory yearly health insurance fee which covers everything when a patient is admitted to the hospital which means in essence you only pay the doctors when your healthy like he said. And the care they receive is much more intense and all the hospital food and meals are all catered by high end restaurants.

Tobin Bell is chilling as jigsaw. perfect casting.

PEE RANNAAA

I love how Tobin Bell can play John Kramer and Jigsaw with the same voice and face yet one is likeable and one is terrifying.

3:02 The fact he remembered John's wife name and the details about John's cancer kinda shows he indeed cared about him. As time pass you can see more and more J.Kramer as a sadist more than a victim of misfortunes.

Okay that piranha thing caught me off guard. I was invested in this serious conversation in the movie and for some reason piranha comes out of nowhere 😂