why shoot silhouettes when webb's work exists? why shoot portraits when arbus, avedon or mccury will do it better than you or i ever will? to speak of street, why even walk out the door when vivian maier did master level work while working as a nanny. there's something to be said for doing the type of photography (and art in general) that is enjoyable to one's self. to state objectively that a type or genre of image being bad is artistic gatekeeping of the worst kind. i have no issue with you expressing distaste of certain types of art or how it's represented. however, instead of suggesting people *could* consider shooting in a way which includes more detail, etc. you instead insist they *should* because your interpretation of art is correct while theirs is equivalent to a bathroom sign. perhaps true, but the work of the guy who created the bathroom silhouette is universally known and recognized while yours is not.
Thanks for watching, glad it maybe got you thinking although, you don't need to resort to insults. It's a light-hearted film on RU-vid. I'm neither a gatekeeper nor an oracle, just a bloke with an opinion and lots of photography books. Please go and take as many silhouette photos as you wish, I hope they make you happy. The thing about art is that we all can have our opinion on it, why not go and make your own film, all about how much you love silhouettes? Then post it on RU-vid and I'll watch it and leave you a comment? Good day.
It is not the silhouette that is the issue. It is composition, and you have managed to assemble an impressive collection of poorly composed images. Thank you for that, I suppose.
Photography , esp Street , will always have it's tropes . The list is potentially endless . Imitation can be a valuable part of the learning process , unfortunately for some it becomes a visual crutch.
Exactly. In street photography there's so many elements - colours, reflections, juxtapositions, silhouettes.. that you can turn into cliche's if you just use them as photographic props.
I do see where you're coming from to some degree, but this is a very subjective topic. A lot of your reasoning assumes that those suffering from the curse of Alex Webb (genius turn of phrase, by the way) are seeking to achieve the same things that you are- classical, personal street compositions focused on the subject and their identity. I'd simply argue that it's a style within a larger genre, just like all of your contrasting examples are. Silhouettes can be done really well or really poorly, and they certainly shouldn't make up an entire body of work- agree with you there. Conversely, I believe it's important to leave room for folks who may simply enjoy chasing this look, and avoid near-absolute condemnations of an entire photographic style. Especially in a genre as ambiguous as street photography. Trends come and go. Perhaps this is one that is a little overdone right now, but I am happy to see people out there creating something in the first place. I appreciate your time in creating this video and making me think. Will be following along for sure!
Thanks for watching, although I stand by my assertion that it's currently way too prevalent. It's more than a little over done, it's burnt to a crisp and the kitchen is on fire! Of course, it can be done well but I'm making a 20 minute RU-vid video so I have to be a bit....hyperbolical. Hope you enjoy the other films. More to follow soon.
Never did I think I was going to defend the use of silhouettes but here I am. To call the use of silhouettes a pernicious cancer is rude, ludicrous, and uncalled for. Are they overdone? Oh my gosh, yes. Can they still be effective? Of course! Firstly, Alex Webb is a master of colour, and high contrast images, not silhouettes! Perhaps one uses silhouettes to avoid problems with copyright laws. Or to create a sense of mystery by not showing a person's features. To call anyone that takes a picture that includes a silhouette lazy, well, to me what is lazy is the analysis of those pictures. Can they be crap? Most definitely. Let's not forget that the father of street photography, HCB, who took that famous shot of a man leaping over water behind Gare St. Lazare, is a bloody silhouette! You have all the right to not like silhouetted images anymore, but please be careful as to the adjectives you use to poo-poo other people's work.
Interesting point. But many of the "negative examples" you show I find just great color photography. So sorry! ;-)). My take: silhouettes are a way of distancing pictures from the banal realism we see mostly in front of our lenses. They need a special light and contrast in the background. They add drama. Maybe it's a trend or a fad - but every style repeated too often will look overdone. Show 20 pics of a very high horizon - and someone will say: boring. Pics with a red spot in them: repetitive. And so on. Mind if I criticize the image YOU are projecting here? Flat, boring, low light with visible grain -ISO on automatic?
I'm seeing photos from photographers who attended Webb's Oaxaca, Mexico workshop. Just seems like a bunch of wanna-be Webb photos. I love Webb photos...but a bunch of cult-like immitators is quite mad.
Great episode. One should consider though, the legal and people's privacy requirements shaped by the locality of the photograph. In many places showing the faces of strangers may be really problematic due to those requirements i.e. one sometimes forces himself to use silhoutes ...
As a technique for the sake of it, it's pretty pointless, but I think silhouettes can be used really effectively when they're v intentional and relevant to the tone or project. I often set out to deliberately obscure a subject because it tells the story I want to tell
Thanks, that was interesting and I agree. For me, one of the main reasons for the supposed triumph of silhouette images is this thing called Instagram. Unfortunately, complex, detailed and layered images in that annoying mini format are much less effective than simple and mundane silhouette images. This fact has convinced many that such images are good images and the effort and hassle of making the difficult and more meaningful images seems unnecessary for many. On the hunt for likes and followers, images that are understood by the majority perform better. But I'm with you, the truth and challenge lies in the opposite of such shots.
With a heavy heart, I'll add Saul Leiter onto the pile of 'fantastic photographers with a bad influence on today's street photography'. As wonderful as he was, I see far too many people taking a few superficial elements from his work, finding that they are repeatable (which you would think would be a red flag) and then repeating ad nauseam.
Totally agree about Saul. He's fantastic but nowadays everyone is shooting street with long lenses which makes everyone look sad and depressed. I def. had my own Saul phase tho so I can't be too mad about it.
You say imitators but that’s because you look at this in such a negative way. This photo has inspired thousands of people to do their own versions and create art, that’s not imitation it’s inspiration. That is beautiful. To be upset at people making art is to be elitist and gatekeepy. If you don’t like their art, you move on, no one’s forcing you to view it.
I don't think gatekeepy is a real word. Also I have made 15 videos now. I would estimate that 95% of them are almost completely enthusiastic about their subjects, I absolutely love street photography but there are also things about it I don't like. That is life, it contains shades and nuances and there has to be room for opinion. Not everything can simply be great without reservation.
Going out shooting with the purpose of shooting nothing but silhouettes is undoubtedly restrictive in creativity. However, when photographing scenes with dynamic lighting, i.e., harsh sun/shadows, silhouettes naturally occur. I don't think, in those circumstances, the resultant photographs are reflective of anything other than the lighting conditions.
Telling people not to take a silhouette because Alex Webb has taken a better one is bad advice. Other people are welcome to do and enjoy whatever they want. This video has cranky and bitter energy
Well at least it has some kind of energy! Thanks for watching Kevin! I hope you have fantastic day, go and shoot as many silhouettes as you want. Don’t listen to me!
I have to laugh, as RU-vid recommended a silhouette video right next to your own. If it's any consolation, it has less views. By the way, Fan Ho called; he'd like a word...
I’m a little embarrassed to admit this video was addressed directly to me 😂 I will do better Stephen, thanks for the insight. You’re right, it is gimmicky. I love the aesthetic, but I agree, simple images on the whole
Hey Stephen, it has been a few weeks since your last video. Have the sillhoutte street photographer youtubers driven you in to hiding? 😂 I imagine a mob of sean tucker fanboys chasing you down the street and you ironically hiding in a shadow to avoid being idenitified 😂
Not a big fan of Alex Webb's photography but your take on silhouettes made this episode very interesting. Almost didn't open this video when I saw Webb in the title but glad I did. And yes, I stayed right there with it to the end and enjoyed it.
I really don't like the silhouette rage, but I don't think that not liking a particular style of photography gives one enough ground to completely shut it off. Bad photos are being made regardless of the style or the genre. To say that someone has taken a better photo in this style before and that you should stop trying to compete with them is straight up wrong; as much as I'd also wish to never see another silhouette photo again.
It can be lazy for sure, but let people get it out of their system...it's like driving a car a little recklessly when you're young....gunning it off the line, etc. Silhouettes can be a fun thing to play with, but a mature photographer knows when to use it tastefully
True enough; yet, in retrospect, we have (according to some) Martin Munkacsi's African Boys in the Surf to thank for Cartier-Bresson's full commitment to photography.
please, go and learn about image composition. The fact that you can't distinguish the genius of Webb's pictures from a kitschy photo (I'm deliberately not naming which one here) shouldn't be shouted out loud to the world.
A good and above all, authentic silhouette ,with the right background is still a great way for me to do street photography. Let's not forget that not everyone lives in large urban contexts, With so many people and always new spaces, not to forget the privacy problems that are objectively present in many countries (we are not artists and let's get it into our heads that this problem exists and they are not a few thousand followers on Instagram, which exempts us from the legislation) in the end this demonization of the silhouette got a little tired of me, it almost seems like a way of pointing the finger at something just to talk. I love the complexity of Alex Webb's photos, and this is the level that many would like to have. long live true silhouettes, for me they are a challenge to look at the world around me.
Ive just stumbled across your video a mere 8 months later and within 3 minutes you have wrapped up my thoughts on so called 'street photography' perfectly. Find a pool of light and wait for said subject to enter pool of light. Void of any effort, narrative, layering, framing etc etc.
Thanks for watching. However, my criticisms in this video were never intended to apply to all of street photography, just the current excessive use of silhouettes. There is plenty of fantastic, original and unusual street photography taking place out there. Please watch some of the other, less bombastic and critical films I've done and hopefully, you will see what I'm on about.....
Don’t worry I didn’t take it as an assault on all street photography. If we’re being honest I wouldn’t even refer to Webb as a street photographer. I believe him to be more of a social documentary photographer.
The “street photography” term itself for me is a cliche. So if people choose cliches for street photography then great. More likes for Instagram. It’s a style and people are obsessed with picking a style and shooting for a style. Everyone is pushing it because it’s easy to sell and easy to replicate. Maybe we should just stop labeling things like calling some photos “street photography” and start from there.
@@stephenlesliephoto for a while everyone wanted to be Gilden and stick a camera in peoples faces at 21mm and f22. Now it’s nameless shadows and colors. It’s the “street photography” label. Nobody can actually pinpoint what it is exactly because, just my opinion, I agree with Winogrand when he said it was a stupid term and it was meaningless. Influencers don’t make it easier basically branding it and telling people what it is so they can package it and sell it. I’m old school in a way. I go with the idea of going outside. Blank your mind and shoot what you see inside of yourself. Try to make things look in the frame the way your eyes saw them. And the more you do it the better you get at observing things. One of my guilty pleasures is Eggleston. A lot of people don’t like him but he’s the master of observing the most mundane thing ever and taking pictures of them.
@@carlosmcse When I was in school our teachers, if we were over-complicating something, would say KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. To me, all this argument about what street photography is and is not falls into that category. If it's a photo and it's on the street it is street photography. All this argument about the details is just so much time wasted dabbling in trivial points. Gilden is a grade A arschloch that causes a PR problem for photography and photographers. It's simply rude to get in someone's face like that.
I think it's not wrong to use people as a props. but agree the points that it's not interesting and make it not good. knowing this point will help us take better photos. Thanks for the video!
"A Tsunami of terrible silhouette photos". Spot on, Stephen. I think Webb's original work was terrific but we do now have a Tsunami of derivative, shallow mush which all looks the same and lacks any original thinking. Great channel btw :-)
Thanks very much, glad you like it and got the joke, unlike some others who seem to have got themselves into a massive flap about it. More to follow very soon. Enjoy.
Great video, Stephen! I’m still only at 2 minute of the video but you got my ‘like’ already. I assume the whole channel is great. I like how you haven’t spent thousands on cameras, lighting and set in order to look as everyone else on RU-vid but rather present interesting and different content (even though I kind of dislike this word ‘content’). Your work reminds me of some of the academic lectures I attended back in uni - rigorous, alternative and open for discussion. Great effort! Cheers
I'm sorry, I agree with your comment on silhouette photography trending, but Alex Webb photos are full of details also and are masterpieces in composition and colour.
Thanks for watching, although I think you've misunderstood my argument somewhat. I acknowledge that Webb is a great photographer, that's not anything I'm questioning. My problem is with the plague of less-able copycats that he's unwittingly unleashed.
One of the street photo Facebook groups I'm on had a mad rush of 'fine art' street shots... Which was basically a mainly black scene, with a triangle of light highlighting a small section of a person (a foot, or a head etc). Sort of opposite to a silhouette as the (segment of) subject was lit, but everything else was just a slither if usually plain colour or white and the rest just black. The only narrative was 'someone walked here'.
Thanks a lot, the little cutout people (most of them in full stride) are a plague indeed. You summed this up really well. The fact that there was a historical Monsieur Silhouette was baffling to me and I suspect I will fail to forget this detail for years to come.
I remember when i first started street photography i have to admit i mostly look up to those famous instagram photographers who had a lot of these cliche silioutte photos. I thought that stuff is popular so it must be good. I have a differend perspective on it now and i much more prefer those complex photos with a lot of layers. But those simply dont do well on instagram i quess. They need to be viewed on large screens.
12:00 As usual you made me laugh, not out loud but a small giggle this time. I liked his bnw shots made me want to see more of those. We all need people to emulate and imitate in order to develop but churning out copies? That would be boring. Thank you, thought provoking as usual.
I agree, I may also add there's a larger critic of street photography in general, beyond just silhouettes but also about lazy tricks for the easy gain of internet points on places like Instagram. It seems it's well suited towards the low effort, instant gratification world we live in, any photo that requires more effort to decode beyond a second may get overlooked, or down voted. It's a shame too, because there's some sort of feedback mechanism in play, lazy street photography gets all the upvotes then newcomers to the genre then start thinking that's how all street photography should look! Some people have also made a career from it, perhaps convincing those who should be more knowing in professional positions that they're good street photos too! This may be from personal experience, it's hard to learn what it is, when most of the modern media focuses on cameras and gear rather than how to read photos and how to make a good piece of art. Although, we all have to start somewhere, gotta get through a lot of dross and rubbish, sometimes replicating the simple tricks helps you on your path to learn more interesting stuff.
Agreed! Minimalist Fan Ho knock offs next? Diagonal line diving full shade from almost full light and a human figure (often a silhouette…). Too boring. But ubiquitous. Right on the mark again, Stephen!
this was fantastic thank you, unfortunately i feel the curse working upon me already and am quite certain that i will bring more silhouettes into the world now. we actually have some cutout portraits that we had done in person at Disneyworld, it was quite fun to watch the artist cut them out while we sat there posing. didn't know about m. de silhouette, thanks for that
You said it! I'm not a great fan of silhouettes either and by avoiding them I did not realise how many people seem to specialise in them. And .......my next video on my subs list is ...........How to shoot Silhouettes in Street Photography. Do I watch it? Course I will
I enjoyed this video and it makes a valid point. I also like all the images presented. Making good pictures is fun, learning to shoot great pictures is the goal.
Great as always, Stephen. Must admit, I'm guilty of silhouette shots now and again (perhaps too much leafing through Alex Webb books?) but they mostly feel like throw away images that just aren't worth sharing. I do feel it has become a safe haven for people who are afraid to take or share photos of people in public (something I sometimes struggle with personally), that and the fact that those images are rewarded on social media more than authentic detailed street scenes. It's easy, safe and almost always boring. Cinematic Mode silhouette shots, now that's the future :)
I enjoy your videos very much. You bring a new and fresh and different perspective. Have you considered Joel Peter Witkin? Thank you for your time and tremendous energy that I’m sure goes into what you produce.
It is easier for humans to follow supposedly simple & repeatable formulas of success (silhouette, ROT with Golden Ratio's intersections, leading lines, reflection, bokeh, sharpness, etc.) than an intangible or complicate one, such as decisive moment, Gestalt law or better composition. Thus, we have creators headlining their videos with such click bait as, "How to level up your photography instantly (with ROT)". Borrowing the terms "Pure" & "Applied" from science & math, Applied photography for some beginners is going through a list of rules & laws one by one, for a particular scene. Whereas, what a photographer knew so far only planted a seed for undiscovered extension or application in Pure photography, such as Saul Leiter simple use of a color (red) as a punctuation, that many failed to comprehend or too lazy to learn the details. As well, it is just another case of follow the followers.
Amazing piece, thanks. It's just fear of actually doing the job of street photography, in another form. Please continue the debunk on other topics, someone has got to do it !
@@stephenlesliephoto 😅 Hopefully people don’t take this video as harsh criticism. I would say just trying to push people towards not shooting “for a style”. You should’ve gone through Moises Levy’s account. 😀 Nice guy.
The silhouette is the worst offender...maybe popular because its catnip for the visual cortex in evolutionary context. Close contenders would be images of lining up things in the FG with BG for a visual pun, and also juxtapositions of objects with words. I think these are what most people think of when they hear the words street photography. Funny haha pics have a shorter life span than that of a mayfly. On a side note - I think you should have done this episode wearing a black wetsuit and sunglasses.
@@stephenlesliephoto Interesting . I wasn't aware of that . Another aspect of his creativity . I looked at his photos today and maybe a better description would be part silhouette , part shadow . Please keep your videos coming , they are full of information and insight .
At last someone has the b@lls to tell it how it is, nice one Stephen. Much of the current vogue of so called street photography on RU-vid captures nothing, says nothing and evokes little or no emotion in the viewers, the bulk of them are just random snaps and instantly forgettable images, taken while wandering along through a location with a jerky POV action cam. To my mind if an image says nothing about the subject(s), doesn’t make you think about what is happening, doesn’t make you smile or is not part of a series of documentary images telling a fuller story about something, bin it, certainly don't stick it on RU-vid and then apologise about it, saying "I could have done better" or surround it with loud annoying music as a distraction.
Spot on as usual. Would love some more vids like this on overused cliches. There are definitely a few! People (not even a silhouette) walking into a strong diagonal light with the rest falling to darkness (like Fan Ho). Perhaps people who have been shooting for up to a year can have a free pass 🤔 not quite the same but I forgive myself for drinking Smirnoff ice when starting out.
