Back in the ‘60 I had a Astra 400 and 600. One was 9mm Luger the other 9mm Largo. There was a lot of 38 automatic and 38 Super ammo availability for $5 for box of 50. I ended up selling both before going off to college. I paid $20 each for the pistols but remember the minimum wage at this time was $1.25 per hour.
Had a Star modelo Super in 9mm Largo about the same time that the CZ 52's were being imported. I got to looking at reloading numbers for the largo and found that the .38 Super was almost the same size as the 9mm largo except for the semi rimmed case put the largo barrel in the lathe and cut a groove to accommodate the rim worked like a champ. The CCI blazer 9mm largo showed the same muzzle velocity as factory. 38 Super. I loaded for warm .38 ACP good accuracy with no pressure signs.
On the spanish astra 400 that is stamp 9mm largo and 38, I found it would handle .38 ACP with no problem. 38 super is not to be fired in such a weapon. On different spanish make in 9mm largo I took a small file and removed a little metal from the breech block part of slide and it would handle 38 super, but I got terrible hammer bite from that gun and quit shooting it. It would not handle the aluminum CCI 9mm largo blazer due to a pitted chamber. But shoot surplus brass cased 9mm large.
The interesting thing I found was that blazer 9mm Largo was the same load as Winchester .38 Super as far as fps bullets are the same size as measured. So basically Largo and Super are a match. In my Star I mostly used hand loads and stuck to mid range or lower but Winchester. 38 Super Silvertips fed and functioned flawlessly with the same felt recoil.
On the subject of tarting up the CZ-52, there were also aftermarket firing pins to address issues of peening the tip. These tended to muck with the decocking mechanism. Various replacement springs were available. Wood grips are still commercially available for it.
There are the 9x23 largo, the 9x23 winchester, and 38 super that is 9x22.75 mm. That 9 mm largo barrel was marketed for the other rounds, but 9x23 winchester would likely take the gun apart due to its pressure. Overload testing by a fellow named Clark showed that the tokarev can better stand up to high pressure loads than the CZ52 regardless of the hype about its roller locking system. The weak point is the wall of the chamber where it is thin and that gives way. The 38 super is semi-rimmed and I do not know if it would function with the breech face of the CZ52. You tried .38 auto loads and they worked. It could be that the extra half mm of case length might be the problem. The ejection port might need to be relieved. The hot 7.62x25ammo often came on 8 round stripper clips that were intended for loading into the czech submachine gun. Some of the ammo had a hardened steel core. I never managed to buy any and mine was all lead core. I saw a steel core that almost penetrated a diamond pattern stamped plate of almost 1/4" that a 9x19 parabellum just marked a little. I do not believe that kind of ammo can be imported or commercially sold in the USA.
The Czechs, like the Irish, have long had the attitude that they may be conquered, but they will never be beaten. And their take on any firearm specification is always interesting.
I remember several sources selling 38 Super barrels for this pistol about 15 yrs. ago. I never saw any video or articles from anyone saying if they worked well or not. I would agree that while this is a very strong locking system, I wouldn't suggest firing it with 38 Super. The gun was originally conceived as a 9mm and the 38 Super is quite a bit hotter. It may work just fine but I suspect high wear and tear and eventual parts breakdown happening much more quickly than with the 9mm or 7.62X25 calibers.
Not sure how this may play into things, but the 9mm Largo had a fireball at muzzle about half the time, but in every failure to eject it was absent. It could be possible the ammo is inconsistent causing this. Just something I noticed. About the ammo interchangeability, some may remember the "shoots everything" Astra 400 which was chambered in 9mm Largo but was supposed to be at least fairly reliable firing 9mm Parabellum and 38ACP and it would chamber and fire 38 Super but that was WAY past what it was designed for. Nobody seems to know why the 38 Super uses the same case as the 38ACP which is an invitation to disaster when someone thinks "if it fits then it must be OK to shoot it". The only other "uses the same case" handgun rounds I know of are the old 38/44 loading which used the 38Spl case but loaded hotter for use only in large-frame revolvers made to handle the higher pressure.There was a hot 32-20 loading meant for rifles only- the boxes clearly stated that- but it could chamber and fire in any 32-20 handgun. And of course the 22mag uses the old 32WRF case. The 9mm Largo was used in a Spanish carbine called "Destroyer" which was intended for uses like our M1 Carbine, and I think that was the last gun it was widely chambered for. It was a somewhat popular round in parts of Europe as of maybe 20 years ago, but finding 9mm Largo ammo here was nearly impossible back then. It's a good round but obsolete and there's no reason to choose it over the 9mm Parabellum. The 38 Super was a fairly popular round in Mexico as military chamberings like the 9mm Parabellum and the 45ACP were prohibited for civilians there back then but I don't know the situation there now. I can't conceive why anyone would chamber a CZ 52 to use 9mm Largo. The wood grips change the character of the CZ52 completely. I don't mind the original plastic grips so much as they give a dated but 'racy' look to it. Probably the best gun chambered for the Tokarev round until recent times and the unusual in a pistol roller lock is some high-level engineering, typical of many Czech guns back then.
I might be wrong but I think 9mm Largo is somewhat popular in country such as Mexico that restrict civilian use of ammo used in militaries. 9mm Parabellum being one. Parabellum means “for war.”
Probably the only sidearm I own that I have never carried.. Penetrating 3 adult thugs plus the car they drove up in is a bit too much penetration... I read in an old edition of "Janes Infantry Weapons" that Chechoslova loaded their 7.62x25 rounds 10% hotter than Russian rounds for the m52. I have some of those rounds and they clock 1600 FPS if I remember correctly. At that time, police Kevlar body armor would not stop it.
The standard 7.62X25 is reputed to be able to penetrate a LVL3 vest which was commonly used many years back. Vests are rated higher now, and it doesn't penetrate those. The Czechs did make a 'hot load' but I don't know how widely it was issued. Steel-core AP was also made but of course is illegal for civilian possession in the US. TBH I'd like to see what it could do with the more commonplace personal ballistic clothing and shields of today.
@blackhawk65589 not really, as 5.7 operates at 15k psi higher than anything the CZ52 is designed for, while 22 TCM has the same OAL and operating pressure as 7.62 Tok but with a smaller and lighter projectile. 50k psi is more than the proof loads the pistol was designed to handle iirc
Does the trigger of that gun make your trigger finger raw? After firing maybe 2 or 3 mags with mine, my trigger finger becomes very sensitive and uncomfortable, as if its been rubbed raw, when I fire mine, and I don't know if that is just an issue with the trigger on my gun or if it is an inherent issue for these guns. I had a buddy fire it and he experienced the same feel even after one magazine. I also have custom wood grips for mine. I think it is a very attractive and unique gun. I just wish it didn't make my trigger finger feel raw. I would shoot it more often.
Test. I've had several comments, in a variety of channels, show as posted, then they disappear. I also couldn't get the like to register. So I want to see what happens with this comment.
@@SkaramineIt's not a notice, it's the Comment Added thing that shows just after I hit the Post It arrow icon. And my comment shows with the comments. Then later my comment is gone. As I said this happens intermittently on several channels, not just gun channels. The inability to select like on a vid is something new.
Odd. I definitely knew about the 9mm Parabellum barrels for them which made sense considering CZ 52 was originally supposed to be in 9mm Parabellum before the Russians mandated ammunition commonality. But 9mm Largo? That's a strange cartridge to have aftermarket barrels in, considering itself was a surplus cartridge but with even less commonality due to only really being used in Spain and Denmark (in their Bergmann M1910 and M1910/21 pistols).
