The D-7 Battlecruiser vs Enterprise in the Original Series - Animated Battle Analysis! 

klingon tech as shown is usually older stuff.

I've came under the impression. Klingons for a long time had this mentality of "If it ain't broken. Don't fix it." This is why their ships were always seen as older ships and technology. As it just worked. Though over time and being influenced by the Federation and the battles they have. They came to realize. Their shit was old and outdated. So they needed to upgrade. Also, had the mind. That a lot of old Klingon ships kept on appearing. All because the Empire was generally more likely to fight itself than deal with external threats. So it was best policy for the Chancellor to make sure the other houses didn't get their hands on better tech. As each house maintained a fleet. Thus the Klingon Defense Fleet was created. But over time, these fears kind of subsided and with threats far greater to the Empire coming from outside. The KDF was unified a bit more and the Klingon Houses felt more like fighting for a greater honor than fighting for their house. So the fleets advance in technology and power. Though this is more of my personal opinion. No, real Alpha Canon sources.

@@Qardo to be honest, I would rather have a fans opinion then whatever the studios think these days. I like your way.

Klingon war thinking involve the following: 1) Taking out the means of mobilization of the enemy ship. (They don't destroy it unless it is of no use to them). 2) Boarding the ship using teleportation technology. (As this is cheaply the expertise of their women, it is why they are deeply valued and deemed as irreplaceable on the ship. Since men are trained to be experts in boarding tactics, the women are trained in engineering and managing the intricate technology necessary for a successful board to take place). 3) Salvage the ship to be reverse-engineered by their women. Again, why the women are trained to such extremes in engineering unlike the men. 4) Enslave the crew to help mine out materials on worlds they have conquered to advance their ability to produce more ships for combat. This also helps instill fear in the race they had just fought against which makes the premise for future wars less likely allowing them more time to advance their own technology as they reverse-engineer the enemy's. Do know this means Klingons are constantly raiding enemy ships to better enhance their own technology since they prioritize combat over many other avenues of society and their women (who are less engaged in combat) are more preoccupied in reverse-engineering or making repairs to exisitng equipment than they are in anything else. This doesn't mean they don't have scientists, but they tend to be rare but at the same time more gifted than most scientists in other species. They do have other occupations as well, but these tend to be taken up by the eldery as both a sign of disrespect for living so long, draining resources from the state and a means to regain said honor by performing admirably through one's old age.

Actually it was superior, they just didn't like the idea using up a ships limited supply of antimatter as it's weapon. It's a good way to find yourself floating in space without power while thinking how wonderful it was that you won that battle.... Just before you freeze to death.

"12 like her in the fleet." Starship Class was like a 1966 Nuclear Carrier or Nuclear Sub commander proud of the elite status of the most advanced ships. Jeffries always laid it out as a aviation engineer would such as an elite group of bombers, but GR, a pilot, loved tall ship fiction so that was the flavor...a space navy like the Frigates in the 1810 era USN with lots of crappy coastal patrol ships or galleys and a dozen blue water battleships

@@STho205 Yup. All other ships in Starfleet were stuff like the Miranda or Constellation classes: similar saucer sections and warp nacelles, but no engineering section. A Constitution class was probably twice as massive as the next biggest class Starfleet could field.

@@STho205 I gleamed the exact same inference. This was Hollywood, so naturally, "star" could easily replace "capital" in describing something as important. Capital ships are the few very expensive ships that support smaller, less capable ships or massive platforms that they make other ships to simply defend. Starfleet could have scores of smaller, less capable ships, and individual colonies could even support small patrol craft. Star ships, like the Enterprise would be the leaders of fleets during time of war. Over the last half century, people started using the word "starship" for anything that supposed to travel between stars. In 1966, the term was practically unknown.

@@Paveway-chan in The Original Series the only other Starfleet ship seen was the Daedalus class, which was smaller and older than the Constitution class. The Miranda class wouldn't show up until the Kirk-era movies, where it was envisaged as a more versatile and economical compliment to the Constitution class. Like an Arleigh Burke next to a Ticonderoga. The Constellation was of the same era but would only be seen in TNG. The Constitution was definitely the best of Starfleet in the Kirk-era though. Especially in TOS it was the primary frontline starship and the pride of the fleet, and even in the movies it wouldn't be surpassed until the much larger Excelsior class came into service. It makes sense that Kirk would only mention Constitution classes, as they are the most relevant ships in service. If someone was boasting about the US Navy they would mainly point out the number of Nimitz or Gerald R. Ford class carriers, not so much the America or Wasp class ships.

That was my understanding too. The Consitution class is Starfleet's newest and shiniest toys. The D7 has been the Klingon Empire's regular workhorse ship for years, until it gets supplanted by the Bird of Prey in the Kirk-era movies. The Enterprise is just newer and more advanced.

There are fans loyal to each series. And fans loyal to games, novels, lore which exist beside or beyond each series. I'm happy that fans can accept that other fans may not readily accept all the same canon or fanon, it's all Star Trek, don't hate people for the things they love. I'm unhappy that the idiots who own (and who keep vandalizing) Star Trek have other opinions.

I read that , but i have read other books real world, basically every ship even of the same class is a little different or unique in its own way . Like the b52 bomber today and its original version look identical but are completely different inside. And witb different capabilities

Yeah but DS9 is powered by fusion reactors and look at what powerful Shields and phasers weapons it has and Earth space dock powered by fusion reactors and has really powerful Shields and impulse thrusters how big it is if you could make a fusion reactor today I mean hell I would change everything with

The impulse reactor is a cold fusion reactor maybe it's hot fusion the point is it's fusion it should be able to power the Shields and phasers if we can make a fusion reactor today with today's technology and say it would cost 5 million dollars per reactor even at that high price within 20 years would be like the expanse

I think that Enterprise and Star Trek Discovery are in a separate universe than the original series deep space nine Voyager TNG Star Trek Picard is in that same universe it the Star Trek the card universe is very similar to the TNG universe it's just a little different and it flows from the universe of not the original series but Enterprise and discovery

@@thehillbillygamer2183 sorry you believe Picard and discovery are in the same universe ? And that its different from tos , tng , ds9, voy ent ,. I would like or approve of that , and the jj Abrams movies are in a different one as well . Or in the discovery and picard is the same as jj . Verse

British engineers

Upgrades. I can totally see the KDF recalling ships for overhauls and upgrades over time, or equipping later built ships somewhat differently.

accordign to TOS there was only 12 connies built in the first run and by the time kirk gets the Enterprise she has had a minor refit so her abilities increase. the D7 was made before the connie so loses the edge but way more of them. also that first battle could have been a D6

Mostly because the model from S1 was not available. The D7 model was the big VFX budget expense budgeted in the summer before S3, so they used it to death. Much better model than either Enterprise or the Romulan ship in S1

Beat me to it. Here's your thumbs-up. 👍followed by an emoji one.

@@STho205 I actually think the Romulan BoP is a better design.

@@jfangm maybe, but the close up photos of the D7 model was a superior modeling job. Well it was two years after the early series models. The Klingons were just pinwheels or telemetry blips for two years.

My thoughts exactly. The original Klingons were cast as a Communist Russia parallel. Their ideas of quantity has a quality of its own is reflected in the writing.

I'd like to second this also. Its also been said that the D7 is lighter and more manoeuvrable, potentially being able to hit and fade against the larger heavier Starfleet ships. Its also worth noting, as was said in the video, that the Constitution is Starfleet's most powerful ship class, so the D7 could likely go toe to toe with the smaller, more common ships of the fleet.

Honestly I think the constitution was also partly designed to counter the D7 as well, which is also why there is so few constitutions as well, it's a brand new ship class during tos

Makes sense. Wolfpack hit and fade tactics very closely mirror the ww2 battles with submarines, which seem to be a major inspiration for ToS doctrine.

starfleet had other capable ships we just don't see them.

I only played Starfleet Command, based on SFB, but absolutely loved how the Klinks are the medium-long range dancers who patiently wear down the Federation opponent … then sweep in to close range at an unexpected moment. The maneuvering and side firing arcs were so fun.

It is certainly the case in "The Enterprise Incident" that the Klingon/Romulan ships can overtake the ENTERPRISE. Kirk orders a mad dash for the neutral zone after he steals the cloaking device and it turns out that they actually need it to escape when they can't outrun their pursuers.

Agreed, in SFB the Klingon's primary heavy weapon is the Disruptor, it did less damage but fired more often than the Photon Torpedo. The Klingon ships were also more maneuverable which allowed them to keep their target in sight, and pound it into scrap.

My favorite ship in SFB was the Fed Heavy Carrier. Man, I loved that ship.

This video is like a a chrome Lamborghini it's so shiny and beautiful that you can hardly see any scratches on it. Great video man keep up the good work

Resurrected! I’m so damn happy you’re doing these again I wouldn’t dare challenge any mistake just a simple thank you will do!

You'll have to refresh my memory, but unless the show's dialog identified the Klingon as a D7, it could have easily been a more lightly armed vessel, unless the presumption is that D7s were all they had. Later cannon established the existence of Birds of Prey; even if they weren't even a consideration for writers at the time, other ship classes are a reasonable presumption.

@@unreliablememory9687 1. The Bird-of-Prey was meant to be a Romulan ship. 2. Why would a more lightly armed vessel attack the Enterprise in the first place?

@Idazmi7 Again, if I'm not mistaken, Klingon ships designated birds of Prey were refenced in ST:Enterprise.

Except Dreadnought wasn't really that revolutionary. The U.S. and Germany already had similar ships on the slipways when Dreadnought was drawn up, she just launched first. Dreadnought was really just a product of her time, not ahead of it. A better comparison would be USS Nautilus or USS Los Angeles.

And the Excelsior and Miranda classes stay in service for more than 70 years. Both are still in use during the Dominion war. Feels like the Excelsior is just big enough to fit more modern tech and the Miranda is cheap enough to keep them running. (I know that behind the scenes they didn't want to put the original Enterprise in mass in battles to keep it's legacy) And that long of a use isn't too uncommon. The first Nimitz class carrier was commissioned in 1975 and they are supposed to be replaced by the Ford class. Which is ongoing, but so far only 2 of 10 ships are done and the 3rd is supposed to be commissioned in 2028, with 7 more to follow. So the old carriers are surely in use for another 20-30 years until fully replaced. Or the B-52 bomber, original designed in 1952, still in service, most of them B-52H which originated in 1961, and they are expected to stay in service into the 2050s, giving the whole design about a century of use.

They also have a certain utilitarian feel: aside from the large walking areas typical of TV shows, they have a minimum of wasted space.

As much as I like the sleek designs of later, the refit Constitution class will always have a spot for me. It improves on the budgetary constraints of the original TOS model, without completely changing the look. I know a spaceship doesn't need to be aerodynamic, but there is just something about those "upgrades" that vastly improves the feel of the ship for me.

50% casualty rates uss farragut uss defiant uss excalibur uss constellation uss exeter USS Hood

To be fair most of those ships encounters insanely powerful entities or things starfleet had no way of planning for. Or in some cases just bad luck and the Enterprise had the benefit know what they were dealing with.

Lore reloaded did an episode on this last week

They were all on missions where Federation technology just wasn't ready to protect them. I get wanting to use your expensive warships for diplomacy and exploration, but it's honestly not a good investment to send them out into the dangerous galaxy filled with threats you cannot even imagine. They're supposed to be used to offset their costs by contributing to the Federation's scientific understanding and diplomatic connections when not used to defend its borders, not get blown up by space monsters and thus be unable to defend said borders.

i feel ships should be able to fight at warp speeds.

Or something as simple as the main antimatter reactor being required to sustain an SIF field or inertial dampers strong enough to keep the ship tearing itself apart and splattering the crew across the bulkheads under high-G maneuvers. Better, more efficient reactors = more maneuverability because you can lighten the spaceframe, increase moment arms without worrying about structural failure, etc.

@@joeswanson733 Ditto. I kinda like the idea of warp combat being standard, because that would show how advanced the Trek verse is. But I also realize that it would be nigh impossible to show on screen in any way a layman audience would be able to intuitively follow, especially when Hollywood loves visual range combat.

@@noppornwongrassamee8941 Only if you need both fighting ships to be seen in the same scene, at the same time. In TOS, they only saw enemy ships on the viewscreen, in distances of 10s of thousands of kilometers. That works just fine for 'combat at warp speeds' - the ships are never VISUALLY in range of each other at all, just sensor images on the viewscreen.

That's still the case for them as late as DS9.

If 2267 Starfleet only had 12 ships as sophisticated and sturdy as the Enterprise and the D7 could nearly match them...yet they made enough D7s to sell or trade them to the Romulans: Then most of Starfleet, the Federation merchant class and the member states' own space navy would be in a major disadvantage in confronting the Klingon squadrons. Federation space in S1pt2, S2-3 was shown as so vast it would take thousands of ships to service and protect the expanse. Even United Earth in the first 13 episodes couldn't have been serviced by a small fleet shown in the series.

@@STho205 1. The Constitution Class has been shown easily destroying Klingon D7s, so no, it's not a close match. 2. The Constitution Class is not the only class of Federation ship. Far from it. 3. The _Star Fleet Technical Manual_ indicates the United Federation of Planets expanded the Constitution Class to 150 ships, compared to the United Earth's 12.

He’s always been a pioneer!

They blew it up in Day of the Dove, threw the surviving crew in the brig and fought them to the un-death through the corridors with sabres. Contrived or not...that's conflict.

@@STho205 But not involving the ship.

@@WilliamHostman they blew it up with phasers.

Were they still using D7's in animated or had they upgraded to the berial?

@@singletona082 nope D7s

@@barrybend7189 Ah. thanks for the clarification 👍

Oh yes I saw that! First Klingon ship on screen - a SWOOSH!! :D

Me too, I know he has other interests but these are so good!

I've seen one of the two actual TOS D-7 models built by AMT for the series, and there is no way it is a shuttle bay as it has a projector style device inside the cylindrical alcove. The shuttle bay is in the back of the raised superstructure on the engineering hull as you can clearly see the sliding doors on both the original models as well as the more detailed K'Tinga model built for TMP.

I doubt the author of the episode put this much thought into it, but here's my take as to why the Klingon commander did what he did: The Klingons have discovered there are dilithium crystals everywhere on these planets (or at least one of them). They've also discovered that there is unrest between the two cultures. If this unrest continues (or better yet, breaks out into war), then the Federation will be too busy trying to handle it to notice the Klingons trading weapons for crystals (or just going to a remote area and picking them up). When they discover that Enterprise has been given the mission to transport the bride to the other planet, they seize their opportunity. Knowing simply destroying the Enterprise in combat (not at all a sure thing) would cause both sides to *hate* the Klingons (thus removing all chance of getting the crystals), they decide on a more sneaky tactic. Making sure their man is on board, his job is to find a way to destroy the ship (also not an easy task). However, Kirk surprisingly orders the ship to proceed to the other planet on impulse only (in response to the envoy's request for time to tame the beast, er, bride). Now the saboteur has time to consider the best plan and decides on the warp sabotage method. This at least would be a believable accident. The saboteur makes sure the Klingon Commander knows this plan before enacting it (he may have needed permission). The Klingon Commander knows when the saboteur kills himself, so its time to see if he did his job. Enterprise doesn't take the bait, but it doesn't go to warp, either. The Commander quickly realizes that Enterprise is effectively crippled and now easy prey for his ship. He still has the issue of them recognizing the Klingons were responsible for the destruction, so he'd prefer not to do that if he could avoid it. However, _capturing_ the ship would be a nice coup for the Klingons. Thus, he whittles down Enterprise's shields until they're almost non-existent. Then he backs off to give them time to reconsider surrender knowing the next shot will destroy them. If they don't surrender, he's hoping it'll take time to determine it was the Klingons who destroyed Enterprise. Unfortunately for him, our heroes have figured out how to get their warp power and drive back and successfully do so in time for their next attack. Needless to say, this takes the Klingon Commander completely by surprise and gives Enterprise a nice opportunity for some photon torpedo retribution. They get a bit of a lucky hit (as can be gleamed from the exclamation of Sulu and Chekov) which significantly damages the D-7. The author obviously didn't research Star Trek Klingon lore as: a) this is after "The Enterprise Incident", so they should have a working cloak b) they're able to do all of this with the Origanian Treaty in place? The former would make the lack of detecting the D-7 understandable, but the latter should prevent them from attacking at all. Oh, well.

If impulse is sub light speed in normal space, how do they interact with warped subspace when under warp drive. If impulse is FTL, which it really has to be because of how it is often used in several scripts all the way to the movies, then since warp is a different physical dimension phase of space...again how do they interact? However in Star Trek impulse was prop plane speed and warp was supersonic jet speed. Warp factors was Mach. Therefore no space and time dilation effects. We all realize that.

I agree.

Check me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the Enterprise in a Red Alert status, at full battle stations, with shields at maximum, expecting an attack, whereas Kronos 1 was not on a war footing, with shields completely down, with its most vulnerable area at literally point blank to the Enterprise (and IKS Dakronh...). Let's not forget that Kronos 1's officer corps was more than a little "inconvenienced"...

@@allennelson3881 You're mistaken. Enterprise was not at Red Alert because they were panicking about where the topedoes had come from and in the background we kept hearing Checkov suggest "Shields Up Captain?"

Kronos 1 obviously didn’t have their shields up when they were hit.

@@scalywing1 It was being escorted by a Federation battlecruiser to a peace negotiation. Why would it?

Oh man before I write the video for journey to Babel I am going to re-read this comment at least two more times!

@@resurrectedstarships I really do hope that it made sense, and is helpful. Keep up the great work!

They travel in threes

@@esecallum Yes, I understand that is the preferred tactic. That is consistent with my comments about Soviet tanks: they were designed to be used in groups and to win through numerical superiority, not to dominate one-on-one.

There was an old hex-based tabletop battle game put out by FASA back in the 80s. They had stats written up for hundreds of Fed, Klingon and Romulan ships. In their reconning the Constitution was very OP. It was a fair fight to pit one of them against 3 of the weakest D-7 variant.

long story short... you'd think starfleet would send their ships out in battlegroups. having lone ships out there against an enemy with cloaking devices... thats just bad.

@@joeswanson733 Well at the time of TOS, Klingon ships didn't have cloaking devices. The only race that had successfully developed cloaking tech was the Romulans. Likely, the destroyer tried to rig up for silent running in Errand of Mercy but either didn't do it in time or not completely enough and they were spotted.

i remember reading trek fan stuf and basically klingons have more powerful weaponry like disruptors and torpedoes but starfleet has better sensors, shields, engine endurance

there's also the factor that the klingons are a lot less adverse to casualties (HONOURABLE DEATHS) and hull-tanking than federation ships so their shields in and of themselves were likely to be less advanced and far less of a priority than maximising the attack value of their initial hits, if you can kill the targets key systems early on then you don't need your shields. The issue to this being the feds built their ships like turtles with a spiky shell and a damnable "do-anything-dish" plus torpedo spitting contraption mounted fairly securely under their chins.

SFB rocked!

I wonder who was watching the vast Federation while nearly half of the deep space starships of Starfleet were playing wargames.

You are correct! In fact I had updated the impulse engines in the rotation shots - but accidentally started using the old version in several animations, by the time I realized my error, it would have been more obvious when the impulse engines would change from scene to scene! So I just left it - next time it will be much more like Kirk's Enterprise.