The Dark Age of The Law: Ace Attorney's Most Misunderstood Plotline? 

Let's get some more love for the 2nd trilogy out there! This was a FUN project to write.

I always wonder how can Phoenix say "always believe in your client" considering the absolutely no traumatizing events in the final case of Justice for All. They have just had a huge luck that every single client they had was truly innocent.

I think the apollo/phoenix thing should be a way more focused on aspect of this trilogy. Have apollo very clearly defend from the standpoint of pursuing the truth, even if that means his client is guilty. And not in the way phoenix does where he starts from believing his client his innocent but have apollo start cases entirely willing to entertain the idea his client is guilty, due to the double betrayal of kristoph being the murderer and phoenix forging the card in 4-1 shattering his trust. Then have apollo be a bit resentful and jealous of phoenix being a better mentor to athena throughout dual destinies, with that and their clashing ideologies resulting in apollo having a "for all I know you would be willing to forge evidence to defend her" attitude in 5-5 and then spirit of justice being apollo learning that phoenix's starting point has merit-his two clients in that game are trucy and durke, people he would trust implicitly, but ultimately reach the conclusion he does anyway-to break off from phoenix and start his own path but with the two finally being on much better terms by the end. It gives apollo a more consistent, interesting arc. Hell it is kind of there already i guess i just want it to be more apparent and more the dedicated focus of the trilogy. Ramble on one of the many ideas i have for apollo being treated better in what capcom wants us to believe his his trilogy aside, great video exploring a really interesting plot element in the series that while i think could have been handled better (maybe even something as minor as not making means' name means would have helped 5-3 feel less forceful) is still a really cool aspect of aa4 and aa Edit:i didnt fully articulate myself properly here and probably sounded like i was just reiterating what you said about their arc together but eh Further edit:never actually considered how the way fulbright acts throughout the game pertaining to blackquill is kinda fucked and part of his long-term plan. Thats really cool!

What an amazing video. While I never really mocked the Dark Age of the Law in the past, I was often confused by what it was trying to say, even if I understood bits and pieces of it. Overall this really helped organize everything. Great analysis, and a nice bit of theorizing at the end. Massive props!

The fact you mentioned that Gaspen was the only prosecutor to be corrupt during the Dark Age of the Law made me think about the fact that he tried to force the death penalty onto his former opponent and a child after becoming Chief Prosecutor in Khura'in only a few months later. Maybe prosecutor Payne really is the most corrupt character in the 3DS duology and we just don't know the true limit of his chicanery.

Great vid with a stellar premise. I think theres other things you didn't mention, like how in his lowest moment, Apollo has a unique sprite where he poses like Kristoph and says "Evidence is everything in court" showing that he has truly lost all faith in phoenix' teachings and gone back to what he learned from his first mentor. The game absolutely proves that it is picking up thematically from Apollo Justice here. Then theres Edgeworth in the background pulling strings as chief prosecutor, the events of AAI2 also eroding faith in the legal system, him getting Phoenix's attorney badge back, and Edgeworth weeding out corruption from the prosecutors office. The thing about weeding out corruption in a legal system is it makes it known to the public that corruption was there in the first place, when people are getting fired left and right (as we see with Gaspen getting fired at the end), and strings are actively being pulled to give falsely accused people like Phoenix and Simon second chances, this would absolutely be noticed and twisted by the media. AA5 doesn't have to directly reference and pick up on plot points of AA4 to be a worthy sequel, rather it decides to do so thematically and through subtext, and is a stronger game for it. Its a shame the games intro case and second case gives the game such a poor introduction, because its an incredible game that doesn't deserve the hate it gets. I prefer this method of storytelling to be honest, we do not need direct reference to plot points for it to be a cohesive thematic trilogy.

Wow, this video is great. Hearing the "Dark Age of the Law" explained like this does make the AJ Trilogy feel a lot more cohesive.

I kinda wish that if they pick up the series again, the dark age of the law would still be going on. Although not as bad as in Duel destinies, there was still some tension and backlash with some corruption up in the air. It‘lol hopefully take the plot line more seriously as it’s not out of the way yet.

I considered Roger Retinz to be the biggest bastard of the series already (yes, even bigger than Hawthorne or Engarde) due to him being so absolutely petty, but this theory puts it on a whole new level. Props to you, dog.^^ Lets hope that Athenas trilogy begins soon.^^

It is currently my head canon that professor Means is the mentor of Kristoph Gavin It makes to much sense 1. The victim in 5-3 was a mentor to Klavier and it’s likely Kristoph went to the same school as him 2. Both Means and Kristoph have similar Ideologies

me powerfully circling the the Not In Text option text comprehention exercize over and over again

Loved this video. Dude, that was super interesting, especially the theory about Retinz, it makes a lot of sense! Hope you keep doing essays like this, this is great!

I think Athena absolutely was the right one to lead case 3. Because both Phoenix and Apollo have been burned by the corruption in the legal system, but none more than Athena, long before the dark age of the law. She is the antithesis of everything that the dark age of the law stands for. She is earnest to the very end. Also, Phoenix has forged evidence. Apollo was losing faith in Athena and Wright. Athena however, despite seeing awful things and suffering immensely, chooses to be kind and trusting and determined. Athena lost her mother, and then watched blackquill go to jail due to a shoddy investigation. And despite that trauma, was determined to fix things rather than make them worse. Phoenix saw how his actions hurt Apollo, and so he was much more gentle to Athena, guiding her much better. He learned from that mistake. And Apollo, in turn, takes the position of "secretive mentor not talking things out." It's a neat reversal, and none of it could work without Athena.

And this all wouldve been so much clearer and well written if they didnt have the stupid "no spoilers of old games" rule. Its why tgaa2 is so good 😭

it really did help me understand the whole plotline better, thanks for spelling it out

One part you left out when listing past sins of the legal system from Phoenix's Trilogy that left a pretty big scar was what happened to Edgeworth in Rise From the Ashes, the revelation that he unknowingly presented forged evidence, which directly resulted in the rumors surrounding Edgeworth's methods since the first time we met Edgeworth. That revelation broke Edgeworth for a time and caused further distrust in the legal system. I see the events of that case as a precursor of things to come in the Dark Age of the Law. Heck, the same sort of thing happened to Phoenix that got him disbarred, drawing a parallel between the two events and both character's journeys.

Your theory that Retinz was trying to ruin Phoenix and the Gramaryes even during Dual Destinies makes sense, honestly. And it's really ironic that Apollo of all characters is the one to stop him: aka the OTHER Gramarye. Thank you for making that whole plot Dark Age point make more sense, to me it always felt kinda jammed into Dual Destinies just to create tension, but the way you explained its use does help me respect it a little more.

The dark age of the law is frustratingly idiotic that it felt like literally nothing.

Great theory and all, but I honestly doubt they thought that far in some aspects. Still, looking at the plots this way does make them feel more interesting and connected.

Wow. You made me realize that the Dark Age was subtly building up ever since the very first game. I've even realized that it arguably began even before then in the infamous DL-6 Incident all the way back in late December of 2001. And for some extra perspective, the Dark Age wasn't considered over until the end of Dual Destinies, which takes place in 2027.

24:54 Plus with Blackquill, it's essentially the TV series, Criminal minds.

I feel like if Retinz wanted to humiliate Trucy, all he had to do was bring up Thalassa's first marriage and the high chance that Trucy was born out of wedlock (Jove had died less than 7 years prior to Trucy's conception and no one knew that he died

Great video excited for the great ace attorney video

can we agree that Gaspen Payne is the real villain in dd

Let’s fucking goo it’s a new kaempfdog vid…

I really like this video. It made me consider things I never really thought about the AJ trilogy. (Which I love btw) Giving you a sub. Have a good day.

i do think the Dark Age of Law actually started way before it was first Mentionend in DD it started with Von Karma killing Edgeworths Dad , It started with the entire Drama sorunding Blaise Debeste and it kept getting bigger and bigger till DD....we had several Major Villains and Killers who were established high people in law even before DD like .. Damon Gant , Von Karam and like i said Debeste

I fully subscribe to the Roger Retinz theory now

super interesting video

Dd is my favorite game of all time so I’m glad there’s a video that isn’t trashing it **cough cough that one awful 5 hour video** (to me at least)

29:05 If you really think about it it makes sence that it's HIS fault. Of course of course.

This is more of a "theory" than an "analysis" since most of this isn't explicitly stated in the game. it's not surprising a lot of people don't consider dual destinies to be a good follow up to apollo justice because it retcons most of it.

Alright, I am begrudgingly convinced, that’s how tremendous a work you’ve done🤌

The way I always interpreted the Dark Age of the Law, even when I first played Dual Destinies and learned of the concept, was that it was the end result of what I had always surmised would have been a building distrust of the legal system behind the scenes across the games prior. Like, I always wondered to myself, "How must the public be reacting to all these big name prosecutors like Manfred von Karma or Godot turning out to be murderers? How must they have reacted to finding out the truth about Damon Gant, the, at the time of the first game, Chief of Police and the SL 9 incident? What about all these instances where it turns out that not only was the suspect on trial innocent, but the prosecution almost seemed more worried about winning the trial than about justice?". And I was right to wonder. People DID grow to distrust the legal system, or, at least, as far as the police and prosecutors were involved. They probably came to place their trust in defense attorneys, ESPECIALLY Phoenix Wright, the best of them all. Except... one day, Phoenix was disbarred after being duped into presenting forged evidence. To the public, seeing that even someone as noble as Phoenix, as far as they were aware, wasn't immune to using underhanded tricks to win a case, it meant that it wasn't just a problem with the police and prosecutors; the ENTIRE legal system was corrupt. Anything went so long as you won, was how they probably came to see it. And so, the quality of people seeking to become attorneys, prosecutor OR defense, likely plummeted as a result. And of course, it resulted in more instances of attorneys using dirty tricks, which further fed into public distrust of the system, to the point even people who were supposed to TEACH the law no longer saw the point in believing in the "old" ways of justice and truth.

I appreciate the analysis of Turnabout Academy considering my personal head-canon is that Aristotle was Kristoph’s mentor in the same way Constance was Klavier’s

I wish 5-3 had a part in it where it was Phoenix v. Klavier in count against each other briefly. Two people who were only in the investigation segments and are by far the most connected to why Professor Means is the way that he is. I think it would have been neat.

I absolutely love your Retinz theory! With it it makes the weird media reaction to the Dark Age of the Law make a lot more sense. Though to me it's weird that everyone pretends the corruption is immediately gone now; it isn't obviously. I feel like that's a weird part about the ending of Dual Destinies. The system is still stacked heavily against the defense. Well- anyway! I'm really happy that you made this video. The 3D games get honestly overhated at times and it really bums out. So i'm grateful for all the AA:DD (and some AA:SOJ) appreciation!

I definitely agree and see your view point. There is however one flaw with DD and the new trilogy as a whole that really limits how well they *could* have written this. The fact that they just can't reference past events in previous games in any clear detail makes them feel so detached and awkward in some ways. Even though if they were it would only enhance what they were writing!

I really like this explanation. I just have one thing to comment on: I thought the "Dark Age of the Law" had been going on for a lot longer than Dual Destinies. Like, it went on for the entire seven years that Phoenix was disbarred. They mention in DD that, after Phoenix was caught forging evidence, and Blackquill was convicted of murder, that's when the media started their attack on the courts. That means it is already going on during Apollo Justice, which might explain Apollo's "what's the point of a legal system that protects criminals?!" question he asks during 4-3. It would also explain Blackquill's place n to the "dark age". Yes, prosecutors had been found guilty before (which, as you pointed out, was part of the reason why this whole mess was happening), but Blackquill being found guilty so shortly after Phoenix's disbarment, when it would still be fresh in people's minds, was the final straw. That's when the camel's back broke, and people lost all faith in the legal system. By the way, I love your theory about Retinz. That's genius.

I’d argue the dark age has already started by at least 4-3. In that case, a literal child was accused, and because there was not enough evidence to indict the actual murderer, the case very nearly went unsolved.

Kristoph dude, so much cooler in concept than you actually experience him in AJ the game. AJ is integral to DD, and it’s disappointing to me that Wright’s portrayal wasn’t a better extension of his AJ self.

This is a fantastic discussion of a plotline I think gets a bad rap. Good to see that you are taking Ace Attorney discussion in an interesting and thoughtful direction, keep up the good work, and have a nice day.

Got so excited seeing this notification! I'd been looking forward to this as someone who didn't really care as much for Dual Destinies and this plot, but the way you've contextualised everything really does make me appreciate it more! Especially the way you've roped in Roger Retinz in this, I already really enjoyed his character and that case, but the way you've had him tied into the bigger publications of the Dark Age of The Law makes everything flow so well. It makes perfect sense with what was established for his character, and I think viewing the Dark Age of The Law with that context creates something that feels more natural to me. This really lived up to the excitement I had for it when I first heard you were making it, I'm really anticipating your next videos!

I love seeing more videos like this crop up that actually elaborate on how AA4, 5 and 6 fit together - you do an excellent job here tying AA4 and 5 in particular together. I would have liked to see more discussion on AA6 in particular though beyond the Retinz theory - as cool as it is, its sadly not really hinted at much directly. What I think is far more interesting in terms of AA6s place in the Dark age of Law trilogy is how Khura'in and its important people serve as direct mirror reflections of the mainland - as a peek into what would've happened to Japanifornia had Phoenix, Apollo and Athena not exposed the truth of the Dark Age of Law in AA4 and 5. Nahyuta is an Apollo who never learned to trust others - Dhurke is a Phoenix who was never able to bring his kids into a brighter law world - Inga is an Edgeworth who was never able to escape the manipulative control of his superior, and Ga'ran is a Von Karma who was able to use the power of forged evidence and manipulation of the masses to their total whim.

5:33 Phoenix Wright vs Kristoph Gavin - Manfred Von Karma - Damon Gant - Luke Atmey - Kristoph Gavin 8:09 The Forged Diary Page 📄 9:02 Exposing Kristoph Gavin’s plot. 10:15 The Legal System has lost trust and faith. 11:20 Ted Tonate 11:47 Florent L’belle 12:10 Professor Means 15:37 Apollo Justice 19:24 Apollo’s loss of his good friend, Clay Terran. 23:18 Simon Blackquill vs The Phantom. 29:26 Roger Retinz

the theory about retinz is so good i wish they confirmed it in canon

The biggest problem with the Ace Attorney series' writing is its complete lack of continuity in the narrative. The game itself does not smoothly develop, discuss, or demonstrate the connections that essayists like you have to argue, and that's why understandings such as Apollo Justice being disjointed from Dual Destinies arise; Dual Destinies does not mention the Jurist System, Kristoph Gavin, or anything else that happened in Apollo Justice except for Phoenix being disbarred and now reinstated, which is touched on very briefly. When it comes to establishing themes or undertones such as "the justice system is unfair," it's okay to leave it somewhat unspoken, as you demonstrate through countless examples all throughout the series. In fact, that's what you're supposed to do: Show, Don't Tell. But story arcs and plot threads, on the other hand, namely the Dark Age of the Law that Dual Destinies throws around all the time, do not have that luxury. They need to be more clearly demonstrated. Leaving it up to the player to try and piece together these loosely connected events to try and maintain some semblance of continuity in the plot threads is just poor, poor practice. What upsets me most is that your essay shows just how easy it would have been to make the narrative more cohesive. If the writing had been a bit louder in what it was trying to say, and not seemingly (emphasis on seemingly, because your argument that plot threads are being continued, just not explicitly, holds water) dropping entire ideas and talking points, this 'misunderstanding' would not be so prevalent. The weakest part of your argument though, all told, is your showing that the continuous nature of the Dark Age of the Law follows through from the existing court system in previous titles (original trilogy and Apollo Justice); this contributes to a complaint that I've heard from many criticizers of Dual Destinies, that is, why is it a Dark Age of the Law, now, when it has seemingly always been this corrupt? I think you show quite clearly enough that Apollo Justice is a good enough launchpad for the point to culminate in Dual Destinies, but your slightly sarcastic allusions to the previous games sprinkled all throughout the video is frankly grating with how jarringly crippling it is to your point. My end point is this: I think you're right. But I don't think it's fair to try and excuse this shabby storyline as being up to standard. It deserves to be criticized because it is very loosely pieced together, and the only ones at fault for this misunderstood plotline is the writers. It's shouldn't be the job of players like you to argue these links. Now onto some more positivity! I am absolutely GLOWING at your "Apollo Justice vs. Phoenix Wright" section. It is cathartic to hear someone say, out loud, just how poorly treated our horned lawyer is by Phoenix throughout his tenure at the law office. Every time I'm in Apollo's perspective I just get this overwhelming feeling of frustration with Phoenix- which is probably intentional! I think it works well in the writing, EXCEPT for that one time in Apollo Justice, where Phoenix says, "I knew you could do it." Apollo asks, "Really?" And Phoenix grunts, "Not really." That moment in particular was severely disheartening and a black spot on what I otherwise thought was an interesting dynamic of irresponsibility on Phoenix's part- it fits, but went a too far making Phoenix unapologetically abrasive. Seeing their relationship recover through the end of Dual Destinies and then Spirit of Justice was very satisfying. Your Simon Blackquill vs. the Phantom section is amazing. A fantastic analysis I truly cannot argue has any real issues, on your part or the writers'. I think if you isolated JUST this section, you could easily have made the essay on its own; to me, this section is what defines the Dark Age in the context of Dual Destinies. Because, like I'd brought up earlier, the court system was ALWAYS corrupt; and, like you beautifully analyzed, Blackquill, despite being a convict, was an anti-corruption prosecutor using his position to hunt after The Phantom, the whole time, with any real shadow he cast over the court system being naught but an exaggeration cast from the lamp placed behind the samurai by Fulbright, himself. tl;dr: Good essay. I'm just not very excited at the prospect of excusing the faults of this series' writing as a mere lack of understanding. Most of this comment is a vent about the series, and not your video, here.

I think Apollo should have went on his own path and become a prosecutor it would be interesting plus him learning from Simon Blackquill and using that in combination with his perceive abilty would make him scary to face.😊

I think the issue for me with the “Dark Age of the Law” plotline is that DD tries to argue that it started after the original trilogy and the system needs to return to that idyllic time. The thing is, the legal system in the original trilogy is terrible from a real-world perspective. Court cases are carried out while the investigation is ongoing, the defendant is presumed guilty until proven innocent, there’s no jury of one’s peers, and the prosecution frequently gets away with underhanded tactics that would result in a mistrial if not outright disbarment in the real world. That’s a terrible system that’s in dire need of reform. But the game doesn’t acknowledge this, mainly because the very fact that the original system is so stacked against you is a major part of the fun. The plot calls attention to the system being screwed up, but it doesn’t realize how far it truly goes. As such, it rings a bit hollow for me.

Really excited to see another video from you! Awesome stuff. Side note though, I always took Blackquill's "part" in the dark age to be that a prosecutor was themselves caught committing murder. And all of that coming on the back of what had previously gone down with Phoenix and Gavin as you pointed out. Just how I read it.

It always bothered me why Dual Destinies makes Blackquill going to death row as a murderer to be a bigger deal than Von Karma, Gant, Godot, Portsman, Roland, and (Blaize) Debeste. All those would be a MUCH bigger deal than one low-ranking prosecutor! You have not only the Chief of Police, but also 3 completely separate incidents of prosecutors getting convicted of murder (one of whom murdered a detective), the warden of the prison, AND the goddamn DA equivalent all going to jail for murder! But BLACKQUILL is supposed to be the one that broke the public's trust in the justice system?!? I have to wonder if it's the "no previous game spoilers" rule getting in the way here. You could honestly have a throwaway "Blackquill and a number of other prosecutors have been convicted of murder" line to explain that Blackquill was merely point where people started to suspect that these weren't isolated incidents and indicative that the justice system is knowingly letting murderers file charges against innocent people for their own crimes.

Thank you so much for making this video, you're told everything I've been thinking for years. I love the second trilogy just like the first one, it's way more coherent than it seems. Your videos are so enjoyable, thank you for your work

Very good video. Really puts the game in a new perspective. *SPOILERS* Just wanted to make a few comments. bear in mind: A) I have not watched your other videos (and I probably should after this one), so I might talk about things that you have in other videos. B) I have not played the games in forever, so my memory of the games may be foggy. Starting off with Professor Means. I think the heavy-handed approach works fine for him even if others may find it too much. I thought the intent was for him to come off as one of those longwinded lecturers who repeat themselves too much (which comes into play when he makes his speech), then you find out right away that he's actually insane. Another way it works is seen in how other characters react to him. Everyone else know his "the end justifies the means" spiel is stupid, but that's because they know better. This guy is a teacher in charge of impressionable youth. He sees them every school day and probably talks about his ideology all the time. He's basically brainwashing these kids and he doesn't even have some hidden motive behind it. In my eyes, he doesn't bother with being subtle because he thinks he's doing the right thing. It's kind of ironic because he is being honest and forthright about his ideology of being corrupt and dishonest. Next is Simon's blame in causing the Dark Age of the Law. You argue that Simon didn't need to apologize and shouldn't be blamed for his part in causing the Dark Age of the Law because he would have been found guilty anyways due to the evidence against him. First of all the evidence against him wouldn't have existed if he did not cover up the crime scene (which in itself is also a crime he committed). The photo was of him covering up the scene of the crime. He could've walked away and been found innocent. He even had the perfect scapegoat in the form of Athena. The problem was that he was so scared of the "truth" that Athena killed her own mom that he decided to cover it up. Simon's decision to protect Athena and the data on the Phantom was not inevitable and did cause the Dark Age of the Law. If Simon doesn't need to apologize, why does Phoenix have to apologize for presenting forged evidence in court even if he didn't know it was fake? It's because they still need to apologize for the results of the decisions they make, even if they have unintended consequences. Lastly, a less direct angle on how Simon caused the Dark Age of the Law is that when he plead guilty to murder he did not provide a motive for it. It's why he's treated as such a psychopath. Throughout the series we have had all sorts of motives ranging from revenge, money, power, and cover-ups, but this was the first time in the series someone killed someone for no reason. In the eyes of the public, the other higher-ups at least had excuses for their terrible crimes, but to them Simon didn't even bother to give one. He just killed for the sake of killing. It's one thing to know that the government is corrupt, but it's another to think that they just want to outright kill you for no reason. It could've been the straw that broke the camel's back.

Im glad Phoenix’s treatment of Apollo is brought up. Because Phoenix literally treats Athena better than Apollo and it frustrates me so much

I was already a fan of Retinz and 6-2 in general, but I had never thought how well it fittef with the rest of the trilogy. You did a great job explaining the Dark Age of the Law (much better than the games) so I'm just. Going to pretend everything in this video is the real canon. Great job!

Braaaaavooooo! I agree with you 100%, man! Never thought about Retinz that way, but it does fit very well with everything that had been established to that point! I really liked Dual Destinies and its plot about the consequences of the Kristoph vs. Phoenix shitshow, I just wish the writing and dialogues more direct about this point instead of repeating those vague catchphrases constantly. It would have been very interesting to see Phoenix coming to terms with everything he had done (even if he never felt any sort of regret or doubt, it would be cool if he had internal monologue about it, see?). And it would be cool if Prof. Means had said out loud that he viewed Phoenix's actions in AA4 as validation for his ideology, and that's why he invited Phoenix to give a lecture at the academy. But I was already satisfied to see all that conflict among the characters being implied in DD, just like you explained here, even if it wasn't explained very eloquently in the game itself. Great job with this video! Can't wait for the next one!

Amazing video! Great work! I have always adored the Apollo Justice trilogy and the themes they tackle in those games. I’ve always felt disappointed that there seems to be a large number of people in the AA community that don’t find Apollo’s trilogy to be as good as the original but I always found it to be very good and right up there with it! Also 6-2 is one of my favorite cases in the series and your theory on how Roger could potentially tie into so many other threads of the trilogy is so cool and makes a lot of sense! I’m excited for the other videos you have in the works, especially the Apollo Justice video you mentioned at the end!

It's all well and good but most of the positive points your present about that arc are based on personal interpretation of offscreen subtext. The reality is...this whole arc (and Appollo's arc to the same extent) was badly written and has so many plot hole it's swiss cheese. They make a big deal of that dark age of the law but in the end there is little to no pay off about it because truth be told, it feels like they dropped that arc midway to give Athena a backstory at the end of the game and completely drop the entire dark age of justice thing. It ends with a whimper rather than a bang.

This is such a brilliant analysis! You totally gave a me a whole new appreciation for the second trilogy. Well done!

Honestly I got into Ace Attorney BECAUSE of Dual Destinies(more specifically the demo for the game) so the whole "dark age of the law" plot line never bothered me because I started in the game where it has the most effect with. Also I just have to say that Edgeworth went out of his way to root out most of the corruption in the legal system after the events of Dual Destinies so that might have to do with that whole plot line essentially disappearing almost entirely in Spirit of Justice. Idk.

Nice to see you again! Your ace attorney discussions are very good compared to other channels. Keep up the good work!

Not necessary a comment on the video itself, but it did get me thinking- Each AA game has a theme to it, and these themes all tie together into not only the two trilogies, but the entire series as a whole. PWAA is about being a beacon of hope to those trapped in the darkness. It reflects the main motivator of its protagonist, and every case showcases this. Larry would’ve undoubtedly been given up on by any other attorney, Maya would most certainly been found guilty if not for Phoenix’s unique situation, Edgeworth never would’ve helped take down Vasquez if Phoenix wasn’t involved. Phoenix caps this off in the final case (of the base game) by finally managing to prove Edgeworth innocent of the DL-6 incident, a crime even Edgeworth himself was convinced he committed. Rise from the Ashes also does this with Ema and Lana. JFA is about how the duty to serve justice inevitably gets corrupted into the desire to win. Franziska and slightly less so Edgeworth nail this point home throughout the game, and the final trial hits home by forcing you to choose between Maya’s life or justice - what you want versus what you need. T&T is all about putting the past to rest. Phoenix arguably isn’t even the protagonist of this one - in the past, it’s Mia, and in the present, it’s Godot. He is instead the vehicle through which these two characters finally face their demons and come to terms with the past, allowing them to move on. Recipe for Turnabout is the only outlier, but since it was initially a JFA case, it fits those themes much better. AJAA is about finding the truth; no matter how dirty or ugly. In contrast to Phoenix, Apollo often doesn’t trust his clients very much and instead helps them by laying out all the facts, often proving them guilty of lesser offenses that get them the Not Guilty verdict. Every case does this, but the final case takes the cake in that Phoenix and Apollo literally lay out every single facet of the current case and Kristoph’s involvement with it on every level imaginable. DD is, I would argue, about trauma. Trauma of being in a courtroom explosion, of seeing a murder scene and what appears to be your father as the killer. Phoenix is recovering from the trauma of the forged evidence incident, Athena is forced to confront her childhood trauma surrounding her mother’s death and friend’s wrongful imprisonment, and Apollo is subjected to the trauma of losing his closest friend. It’s only by working together that the three of them can finally begin to heal themselves, and from there, the court system as a whole. SoJ is about cleaning up the aftermath of past mistakes. On the surface is sounds a lot like T&T, but instead of making peace with the past, SoJ actively puts us in situations in which past actions are ruining lives. Ga’ran’s tyrannical rule started long before the events of the game, Roger Retinz was wronged many years prior as well, and even Geiru had to confront her Rakugo Master realizing too late that he never told her what she needed to hear. Nahyuta and Amara toiled for years, unable to do anything, and Rayfa was raised by her controlling aunt who instilled negative ideals into her. Before meeting with Maya in Rite of Turnabout, the victim is already dead and a plan set in motion to combat the long-since enacted defense culpability act. Dhurke doesn’t reach out to his adopted son until it’s already too late. Everyone else is just left to pick up the pieces and try to move on. In this sense, each Ace Attorney game has themes that speak to what it means to be a lawyer and justice in general. The major difference between the first and second trilogy is that the first trilogy is all about internal conflict - trying to convince Edgeworth to let you represent him - and the second is all about external conflict - taking down an evil queen. I think too many people get caught up on the little details that they miss the broader themes in the second trilogy.

I've always found the dark law timeline rather interesting! Thanks for making a video on it!

While Blackquill didn't know the Phantom was there at the time, his actions absolutely obstructed the investigation that might have led to his capture. Blackquill tampered with the crime scene, stabbed the victim, destroyed a robot witness, and carried the human witness away. Given that the Phantom's plan fell through completely at the time, it's very possible his muck ups would have led to his capture. Blackquill accidentally protected the Phantom, and played his part in the dark age. But hey, that's just my theory ;)

I’m surprised you didn’t mention Aura Blackquill. Her actions in 5-5 are another highlight to the impact of the dark age. After her friend, Metis Cykes, who is Athena’s mother, was killed, Aura completely lost trust in the system, and became a completely different person. She even went as far as *kidnapping 12 innocent people,* just to reach Athena, who she directly blames for Metis’s death. That’s even worse than how Apollo was effected by Clay’s death. I personally hated that plot twist, because she never once thought of a different scenario, and was way too fixated on Athena being the killer, even though *she was only 11.* The fact that Aura stoops this low makes her just as bad as the killers, and quite disrespectful to her old friend imo. That also made me dislike Apollo, because even with that, he still cooperated with Aura, rather than looking into any other scenario, or at least try to talk Aura out of it (which is what I would’ve done if I were him). P. S. I went through DD, and I didn’t find Phoenix’s relationship with Apollo as bad as you described it. That ace of spades forged evidence wasn’t used as actual evidence, but as a bluff to trick Kristoph into accidentally outing himself. That’s the same trick that worked on Luke Atmey in 3-2, and on Furio Tigre in 3-3. Also, on 5-6, Apollo wasn’t just babysitting Trucy. He was to keep the office available for any possible new client. I’m honestly surprised you missed that point, because *Phoenix specifically says that before leaving for his new case.* It also made more sense to leave that to Apollo, who has more experience than Athena.

Am I the only one who finds Phoenix’s disbarment hypocritical? It was over one forged evidence, which they didn’t even bother to investigate the details behind. Manfred Von Karma was caught BLACKMAILING a defendant to confess (thanks to Gregory Edgeworth), which is worse than forged evidence, yet he only gets a penalty.

Let's be real Excepting some brilliant plan thought out in advance Only to get greeted with "random bullshit go" is great

Hooh damn, that was a really well-structured and well-written summary of events. I kinda missed the banter between the two of you, but that would have hardly fit here, haha. How did you go about writing this essay? Did you replay the second trilogy and noted everything that seemed relevant? Did you come across some "surprises" along the way? Personally, I loved Apollo's arc a lot. He went from a hopeful lawyer who admired Pho(e)nix to realize what kind of person he had become, and then... well, you said it best. In that case the finale of Spirit of Justice really did come full circle for him. He's fully independent from Phoenix, but also grew so much during his time at the Wright Anything Agency, and uses all that to help build a new legal system from the ground up. I'd love to see what he's up to in future games... or if he EVER learns about his connection to Lamiroir and Trucy. Or see him having an actual connection with Nahyuta. But then again, at this point, I'd be fine if this is never addressed again, which it probably won't. Makes me wonder if this was always the course that the series was supposed to take after Apollo Justice with its open ends. Taking like two wrong exits, but ultimately getting to the original destination. I wish Athena got that kind of treatment sometime...

Alright, time for the review of the review. Regarding your points about Phoenix vs Kristoph, I can understand your arguments there. The fact that Kristoph destroyed Phoenix's career using illegitimate means drove Phoenix to do the same to Kristoph. Still, I find it odd that Phoenix forges evidence for real in 4-1, considering what caused his disbarment in the first place was his unknowingly presenting forged evidence. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I do agree with your points on Apollo. You're right when you say that Apollo has no reason to trust Phoenix in DD. When the pair met, Phoenix was a disgraced former attorney, hoodie-wearing poker player, and evidence forger. The fact that Phoenix convinced Apollo to present forged evidence in 4-1 gives Apollo a genuine reason to distrust Phoenix. And yet, not enough is done with it. Yes, you heard me right. Not enough is done. Sure, Apollo has his arc in DD, but it ends with him completing trusting Phoenix. Apollo's arc does a complete 180 in 5-5, when one of Apollo's few defined character traits is that he is less likely to blindly trust people. I'll talk about Apollo's character arc more at the end of this review. Regarding Aristotle Means, there are a couple issues with your arguments. You say that Means is supposed to embody the "Dark Age of the Law" (off in the distance, you can probably hear me die inside) by being an insanely corrupt defense attorney and professor who not only does whatever it takes to win, but teaches the students at Themis Legal Academy to do the same. Okay. However, the issue I find is the fact that you say he was inspired by Phoenix and Kristoph. Means is older than both of them, and thus, we can assume that he is actually more experienced. I have every reason to believe that Means has always believed wholeheartedly that it doesn't matter what you do so long as you win (I had to write that because I didn't want to have to write "the end justifies the means"). Sure, Means is shameless about it in 5-3 as revealed by his repeating his mantra 27+ times (according to one r/AceAttorney user who counted every time he says it). Plus, he ultimately isn't a compelling villain because, post-transformation, he goes from "insanely creepy and suspicious" to "beyond cartoonishly evil." Your points regarding Retinz were, by your own admission, speculation. It's possible that every single word in that entire chapter of the video is wrong. Considering the three-year time gap between DD and SOJ and somewhat lackluster continuity between the two games, it's likely that Retinz wasn't even conceived until SOJ and thus had nothing to do with the Dark Age of the Law (once again, you can probably hear me dying inside from off in the distance). Overall, DD is one of the worst AA games to date. It's better than AAI because at least it's enjoyable to play. It also slightly edges out AJ because it at least has (some) likable characters and has something resembling a proper final case. Still, by the standards of the Trilogy, AAI2, and all other above-average AA games, it either comes up short or epically fails in almost every aspect. Its writing is mediocre at best and abysmal at worst, with a ridiculously inconsistent tone and several plot holes. It uses almost entirely "tell, not show" writing, which practically any semi-decent writer will tell you is an awful decision. Instead of repeating the phrases "Dark Age of the Law" and "the end justifies the means" ad nauseam, show that it is happening. Show real instances of widespread evidence forgery. Illustrate how little faith the public has in the legal system. Maybe show Means forging evidence or presenting forged evidence, possibly winning a case as a result. There are plenty of better ways of showing the "Dark Age of the Law." Hell, the only real evidence of a lack of public trust in the legal system is the character of Aura Blackquill, who is misanthropic in general and distrusts the courts because she believes that humans are too swayed by emotion. She develops this viewpoint after her younger brother, Simon, takes the fall for a murder he didn't commit in order to protect Athena, whom both Blackquills believed to be the true culprit. Speaking of Athena, this is where I go over the simple decision that would've made DD so much better. Athena should've been the culprit of UR-1. There, I said it. Capcom had no reason not to make her the culprit. Sure, matricide is an incredibly abhorrent act, especially for an eleven-year-old girl. If you make Athena the culprit and remove the Phantom altogether, DD becomes an above-average game, possibly even Top 3, and easily the best post-Trilogy game. First of all, it would raise the stakes of 5-5 even more if Phoenix has to defend someone he knows his guilty. Sure, he did that very same thing in 2-4, but it and TGAA-3 are the only two episodes to date in which the player character defends a murderer. You also don't have to make UR-1 a murder; in my opinion, it works best if the death of Metis turns out to be a tragic accident rather than a deliberate act. As for what you would do after learning of Athena's guilt, that would probably be finding the true culprit of 5-4, as the Phantom doesn't exist in this version and it wouldn't make sense for Athena to be the culprit of both. Second of all, it makes character arcs more compelling. I believe that two characters in particular would've had much more compelling arcs had Capcom made Athena the culprit: Apollo and Athena. Apollo, as previously mentioned, doesn't really trust Phoenix, and in 5-4 and 5-5, he convinces himself that Athena killed Clay and fears that Phoenix will go to extreme lengths to protect Athena. Thus, we could've seen an even greater rift between Phoenix and Apollo if it turned out that Athena was guilty (albeit not of Clay's murder). In the case of Athena, her arc is one of my least favorites, as it's largely recycled from Edgeworth and done much better the first time. So, making Athena the culprit makes her backstory distinct from that of Edgeworth. It would also cause Athena to potentially show a massive amount of maturity, as she accepts her fate while still accomplishing her goal of saving Simon. In other words, it would allow Athena to accomplish her goal, while also maturing and realizing that the truth is all that matters in the end, no matter how inconvenient it may be. Athena even shows willingness to do just that in DD when she says, "Simon, please give me this chance! The chance to shake off this fear that's been with me for seven years and to face the truth!"

Wow! I’m actually early for one of these! When I really think about it, this video makes me think that Capcom probably should’ve named the Apollo Justice Trilogy “The Dark Age of the Law Trilogy”. Although Apollo is the main character of that trilogy, Phoenix’s silhouette is the one on 5’s & 6’s title cards, and Athena’s introduction (which I feel was way too early) kinda takes the spotlight away from him. However, the one constant in the 2nd trilogy is the Dark Age of the Law, so I feel like that would be a better name for it. With Apollo Justice having the player deal with Phoenix’s disbarment, and the all-around darker tone of the game itself, it’s easy to feel the darkness emanating from every case in that game; a widely renowned attorney pinning a murder on a once-renowned attorney, the death of a doctor involved with the mafia, a law enforcer pinning the murder of an undercover agent on a child, and a forger suspected of murdering her own father. It felt like a taste of things to come, and it sure came, like you pointed out. I truly was taken in by the Phantom’s shenanigans. I honestly never realized, despite claiming to be on Simon’s side, how the Phantom sparked fear of him into everyone. All to ruin his credibility. The Phantom does the same thing to Athena during 5-5, by casting doubt on her Mood Matrix in front of the audience who still have doubts about the legal system. It was all done to save his own neck, by having everyone ignore the ones whose images he ruined. I remember you talking about Roger in one of our discussions, and you brought up some of what you mention here. While it’s not confirmed in the games themselves, it makes enough sense that I can have it in my head-canon. I honestly can’t come up with a better reason for the Dark Age of the Law to have come up as late as it did, other than what you’ve presented here. I feel like the lighter tone of Dual Destinies, when compared to Apollo Justice, could be a contributing factor into why most people disregard the Dark Age of the Law (as a footnote in the series), especially since it seemingly came and went with Dual Destinies, a game with my biggest complaint being the lack of character cameos from Apollo Justice. However, it’s still an important time during the series itself, and it’s why I’m starting to feel like the Apollo Justice Trilogy should’ve been named “The Dark Age of the Law Trilogy”… but that’s just me.

To me, Dual Destinies is like giving a fantastic, beautifully thought out plot to a bunch of middle schoolers and telling them to write it for you. The dialogue lacks subtlety, the plot is all over the place and confusing, and the final villain is just plain terrible. The more I think about DD and watch videos like this, the angrier I am at it for being written so atrociously as to make its brilliant ideas come off as bad, unfunny jokes and flanderized characterization. It takes a dark concept and reduces it to corny dialogue that's constantly ham-fisted while refusing to acknowledge how disturbing the story is in its proper context. All of the correct story beats are hit but the dialogue is so bad, it obscures how interesting and thought provoking the story should have been and the final confrontation is effectively a Scooby Doo trope that isn't once taken seriously or explored as a concept. It's a travesty that we didn't get what could have been a brilliant entry to the series because Capcom probably stepped in and stopped them from telling what would have been a darker story. I can't blame Yamazaki for this, it seems like his hands were tied. It's still frustrating to see such a clever idea done so dirty.

I'd like to think that AA2 was the first instance of the Dark Age of Law blooming, almost all the culprits of that game are tied to some figure of authority or justice system, even the last suspect had ties to the court. Heck, even Edgeworth lost his badge at some time like Phoenix. In addition, there is also the possibility that clearing Phoenix's name actually made things worse overall if the media was involved. They get to cover the scandal, then the backlash to that scandal, and the scandal of the scandal. Imagine the reaction of the people if they learned that the heroic lawyer of the people was framed by another defense attorney who had way more power than him over a client. They get to cover his fall and rise and put it into a negative light anyways because if Kristoph didn't do what he did, then criminals wouldn't go reckless with their plots. And the only way for Phoenix to even be allowed to practice law again is because that incident needed to be unearthed. But at that point the damage was already done. The Bar Association was proven to be compromised and years prior the Prosecution Investigational Committee was too, proving that both sides of the court procedures are corrupted.

Wow, as someone who always shunned the idea behind the Dark Age of the Laws, I can say that you convinced me that the writers may have known what they were doing more than I have given them credit for. While I still believe Dual Destinies doesn't do that good of a job actually presenting the main ideas behind the Dark Age, the building blocks were there. I have always stated that my main hope for an AA7 would be for the story to truly follow up on everything in the "Apollo Trilogy" and tie up all loose ends. Watching this really reignited my hopes in that regard

Finally, the Kaempfdog delivers a new video! 🤯

I think what you've shown here is that you're very good at explaining poorly structured writing. Like, the ideas of this game are good but they were poorly organised and badly exposed to the player. You shouldn't have to do this much work to piece together a narrative across games

Complaining about Means being heavy-handed is equivalent to complaining about the entire series, since 99% of the PW series is literal heavy-handedness in tone.

This was a fantastic video to watch 😁 i enjoyed the second trilogy immensely, particularly 5 and 6, but the setup to the dark age of the law and it's resolution has confused me over the years. The way you contextualize everything really helps to clear things up for me, and to appreciate the second trilogy in a new light! 🙂 thanks for that! I'm greatly looking forward to your Great Ace Attorney ranking when it eventually comes out! 🙂

I interpret the Dark Age of the Law as just Capcom's attempt to expand/flesh out the world of Ace Attorney. Despite all the comically evil bullshit that happens throughout the original trilogy (everything from von Karma to Damon Gan), none of really had a visible impact on public opinion. Not that there COULDN'T have been an impact, there very well probably was, but PW:AA just failed to account for the whole "how does the public react to this?" angle of the world of AA. This is the reason why AA4 has the whole MASON system plotline that was retconned in DD and beyond - it was Capcom's proto-Dark Age of the Law, that ultimately was just fundamentally too shallow for what Capcom was aiming for, and so the Dark Age of the Law plotline in DD was born - it's purpose wasn't necessarily to retcon and replace the Mason system plotline, but rather, it was Capcom's attempt at expanding it. That's also probably why the whole Definant Dragons theme in SoJ is so prevalent - it's another spin on the Mason system/Dark Age of the Law, a natural continuation. People went from being fed up with a legal system, to actively rebelling against one. Honeslty, now I'm curious if Capcom is going to go anywhere further with this plotline. The Defiant Dragons arc was, although a bit contrived, a great place to end the whole Dark Age of the Law shit, so maybe we're going to see something entirely different in AA7?

Good video I still hate the dark age of the law plot not because of what people are saying but on how poorly written it is You have pointed out stuff which for me were obvious but since the game does not explain it properly ≠good writing Like apollo and phoenix conflict is not immediately obvious(I will admit,for me it wasnt at first) If DD followed the rule "show dont tell" this plot would be actually good in my eyes But for me it is still the worst plot cause of wasted potential Very good theory with retinz This actually make sense Cant wait for the next video

Ok, but where does the Prosecutorial Investigations Comitee fit in all this or is that organisation irrelevant?

i wish they hadnt made phoenix so.. bad in the more recent aa games. i dont play much ace attorney, i mostly just like watching videos about it so i might be wrong with this but why would they make phoenix like that? sure he became a hobo n stuff in apollo justice and shu takumi stopped writing after apollo justice but i dont believe he would mistreat apollo like that. its so weird

Its always fun when Kaempfdog uplouds

y'know, DD was my first AA game, and while i did think that the dark age plotline was really out of place in the game with how often they're trying to push it onto you, i still considered it decently done because we literally see the effects of it in each case. like, there was no way you could deny something was wrong with all these crazy culprits with their ideas and motives and then somewhen much later i got on Apollo Justice and that just reinforced my thoughts about the dark age. imo, if it was done more subtly like in AJ then DD wouldn't have much problem with it. it would at least connect with AJ's silent feeling of something being very, VERY wrong with the legal system

With Klavier having attended Themis Legal Academy and mentored by Constance Courte, as seen in 5-3, it is entirely possible that Kristoph attended the school as well and may been taught by Prof. Means, which is how he came to the frame-up plan so quickly. It's one giant domino effect.

I will say, you kinda brush off the meaning behind Blackquill’s actions for his part in the Dark Age of the Law. His actions let the Phantom escape because he was covering for Athena, yes; however, the fact that he plead guilty to prevent further investigation allowed the Phantom to escape without anyone learning of his existence. Because Simon prevented a more thorough investigation, the Phantom was able to stay anonymous without anyone knowing about him so he had free reign to continue sabotaging other countries. Sure the Police would have stopped after Athena was declared Guilty, but Simon would press an ongoing investigation anyways with support from Edgeworth because he was the reason behind Blackquill being able to continue prosecuting in the first place. With Blackquill actively investigating with Edgeworth’s support, the Phantom’s existence would have been revealed 7 years sooner and Athena’s Jailtime would have been exceedingly shorter than Simon’s was, and thus the Samurai would have heroically saved the Princess and vanquish the villain. Sure, that would open up more Super Spies to the fray, but Simon still played his part, and he had to accept his role in letting the people lose their trust in the Judicial System. It’s all about context and how people viewed the actions, rather than if the actions were right or wrong.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO. I've been really pulling for the amazing consistency that the 2nd trilogy brought even despite the way they treat information between games. This is so well explained & only nuanced my positive feelings toward the underrated half of this series :)

Ace Attorney is my all time favorite game series, and Dual Destinies is my favorite of the main six games. I really appreciate you for making this video, as it explains everything I loved about the Dark Ages plotline and why it works. And, I also want to agree with you on the Retinz theory. Trials and Tribulations had two cases that gave us some context on Mia as a character, and helped to expand the lore of the first 2 games perfectly. So your theory on Retinz having a hand in the spur of the Dark Ages makes a ton of sense. Kudos.

yknow, now that im watching this.. phoenix was kinda an asshole wasnt he

The fact at 5-3 Means talks about "end justify the means" right in front of Phoenix just baffles me, what's more is Phoenix has no reaction from that whatsoever, of all the people who should have a strong opinion about, Phoenix just can not be the one who doesn't react at it, yet they still give that baffing scene, let Phoenix listen to Means talk about "end justify the means" and do nothing about it, just what were they thinking?

That Pheonix Wright Lip Sync must have been so hard to do

THANK YOU! To many people don't know how big of an impact Kristoph had on the Dark Age of Law. He's literally the dude responsible for starting it in the first place, and used it to win cases to stroke his own ego.

I'm so glad to have come across this video! Dual Destinies is my favourite game in the series and I was honestly surprised when I found out that people didn't like it, and this video touched on so many great points that explain what I liked about it so much. It's such an underrated game and it's unfortunate that it (and Spirit of Justice, which I love too) get so much hate. I personally think DD is a lot better when played through for the second time, where you already know what's going to happen so you can see the whole story and understand WHY things are happening the way they are, but too many people just view it on a surface level of a first playthrough and end up thinking it's badly written. Like how you mentioned the reasons why Apollo is wearing the eyepatch and Clay's coat, and it's not for just being "edgy", it's for clearly stated reasons within the game, and his behaviour in the final trial makes sense with his character, especially considering his past and present dynamic with Phoenix -- but not having the full context during the first case makes people think he's out of character there, and they forget to come back and recontextualise it later with the full story. I also love how you've tied the story together cohesively with the rest of the 2nd trilogy, from both AJ and SoJ and explained everything brilliantly. The Roger Retinz theory is a fantastic idea! And I know a lot of people dislike the fact that there's only a very subtle continuity between all the games, but personally I've never really minded -- I quite like the fact that each game has its own separate plot and feel to it, and there still is an overarching continuity between them in a thematic sense, where events from prior games cause a domino chain that affects later games, as you've excellently shown in this video. I think DD suffers from that same "liminal space" feeling of being the middle game in a trilogy that Justice for All does, where it doesn't stick out as much in people's minds because it's felt as a sort of stop on a journey to the final game, rather than a game worthy of respect in its own right. And that's a shame because DD is great! Anyway yeah I just wanted to say how much this video brightened my day, because I had been hoping that with the 2nd trilogy releasing soon, it would get some more love and perhaps people would look back on it more fondly. From what I'm aware, a lot of these criticisms that DD gets are similar to what was said about AJ a long time ago, before people began looking back on it with the context of the full story and realising just how brilliantly written and fun a game it is. I'm hoping the same will happen with DD (and SoJ) too. Thank you for making such an awesome video!

I love how your avatar is represented by Pheonix Wright in a purple suit. Not even an OC, just plain ol' Pheonix Wright in a different suit color, and it works. Anyways, DD is my second favorite game of the entire hexology, so hearing all about the thing that has a HUGE part in that game is amazing. Also, just for fun, here's my ranking of the Ace Attorney hexology, from best to worst: 1. Apollo Justice 2. Dual Destines 3. Pheonix Wright 4. Trials and Tribulations 5. Justice For All 6. Spirit of Justice

12:13 I bet you Means got his methods from von Karma who in turn was responsible for Kristoph’s methods

And when the Law needed him most, he returned.

Seeing the AA4 potential and it's build up made me so excited for DD at first But they treated AA4 as it wasn't even there, if only they pushed on some points as you did in the video: telling us the story of this enormous squid that put its tentacles everywhere. Mentioning Von Karma, Gant, Kristoph and someothers could have helped the player in finding the roots of the whole problem

While I pove your retinz theory and your analisys of Phoenix and Apollo's relationship, I feel you were being a bit to harsh with the latter. Apollo was never really alone untill spirit, up to that point Phoenix was always around him in some way, ready to give him important direction or evidence, he stays behind the scenes for yhe most part, but pops up as soon as he is needed, kind of like Mia did for him through channeling, I think he watches Athena more closely because she is both yunger and more inexperienced, as shown by her first "solo" trial, which blackquill had to do half the work for, Apollo never needed that much hand holding, and by not constantly hovering on his head he kind of allowed to make his own creed instead of forcing his own on him, only presenting it as a possibility when he actually needed it. Also, being largely detached from him allowed Apollo to make a name for himself, free from both the stigma of the forger phoenix in AJ and his "legendary" status after.

Okay but what was Grossberg doing at the boathouse?!

thank you for this video!! i agree with your reasoning, and the theory on Retinz was truly interesting and feels very solid to me. i like thinking that the writers in SoJ might have used the opportunities Takumi left in AJ to tie some things together in a very curious way, now this case makes much more sense to me i have just recently finished the trilogy, and i didn't even know yet that so many people were slandering DD so much for things so obviously not deserving that. i think the major problem with AA criticism online in general is that people take these games waaaay more seriously than these games do themselves. they ARE stupid because they are supposed to be! Means is annoying because he is in large part a _comical_ figure (i personally find him extremely uncanny to the levels that i have never seen in any other AA game, i think his character design is very much on point with what effect he is supposed to create writing-wise), and him repeating his catchphrase ad nauseam is a part of his character; he is _supposed_ to be ridiculous, that's one of the ways the game is trying to tell us he is not a respect-worthy figure from the point of view of AA's metarhetoric. and i think that quite often the distaste or hatred for some stoopid (affectionate) tropes like is blinding folks to the explanations for these tropes that the games _do_ provide, just like in the example with Apollo's “edgy” era/arc, which is... sad. and it's one of my pet peeves regarding media - some people do not distinguish expressing personal opinions from trying to establish facts (for various reasons); "i cannot see the reason for X" is not the same as "there is no reason for X"

If you haven't seen it yet, I highly recommend "Turnabout Jackpot". It's a fan story set between AA and DD. The jurist system and the Dark Age of the Law play into it splendidly.