The Dark Knight Returns: Gritty, Mythic Superheroes 

That's right! O'Neill & Adams brought Batman back to his dark roots and Miller acknowledged their works when DKR was published.

Jacob DeCoursey well said!

For sure. He is more like rorsarsch

True, notice how he tries to convince himself that he didn't kill Joker by simply imagining him snapping his own neck like for god's sake Joker was paralyzed to the point he couldn't move a finger, but he apparently could move his broken neck to break it more. Add to that the amount of chaos on display after Batman's appearance where he attracts the worst kind of mad people like Joker to come out and kill many innocents and cause chaos because that's what Batman's presence brings. In the story, we get a second commissioner, one who isn't buddy buddy with Batman and one who won't give him a pass for his actions and it's shown when she sees him with Carrie Kelly (which in normal Batman story would be justified and given a pass as ''Robin is the light to Batman's darkness''), but here she adds to his list of crimes child endangerment which would be the normal and logical thing to do if Gordon wasn't so easy on Batman. Batman got some fascistic elements to his story with the influence of younger people, with Carrie and the Mutants and it goes wrong with the mutants where they start killing in the name of Batman. Many people bring up Batman breaking the gun panel as proof that TDKR's version of Batman was the righteous hero but fail to realize that Batman himself used the enemy's gun in the story before that point and that this panel was him realizing the negative influence he had as a symbol on those young kids and trying to get them away from what they are doing. Batman had to die as a symbol by the end because Bruce realized that he as Batman has a negative effect on Gotham, that the young generation better be inspired by a leader who helps them rebuild instead of going around murdering or inflicting violence on other people and he could do that as Bruce, that's his newfound purpose and why he lets Batman go. Both Batman and Superman weren't right in this comic, but both of them started realizing their mistakes, Batman isn't someone to look up to through that story, but like you nicely said...He is the hero of the story in a classical sense, and that's where people don't get the distinction and think that Cool/brooding means right.

@@LP1ToTheEndOfTime Why would it matter so much that Batman paralyzed the Joker when Joker was randomly going around killing children and adults at the fair?

Even the Punisher or Moon Knight looks more sane compared to him.

@dfctomm remember the "Superman" monologue in Kill Bill? Refresher if you need it here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Vzfy9Cl8md0.html I remember thinking at the time that QT has COMPLETELY missed the point of Superman. He IS Clark Kent. Clark is not a costume, Superman is. I remember there was an arc in the 70s when he wanted to re-claim his Kryptonian heritage and even his Justice League teammates (like WW) start calling him Kal-El (or "Kal"), but after a while he realizes that he didn't LIVE that heritage and he is, at heart, a Kansas farm boy. That monologue better fits Batman. Bruce Wayne is an absolute facade. Bruce Wayne died in crime alley. There is only Batman. I think this was the main factor in his decision to not go through with marrying Selina Kyle. There is no real Bruce to be married to.

I believe that All Star is the Best Superman story of all time

Greatly put

I would say kingdom come is Superman’s dark knight returns.

@@richardsreviews8820 I would say that as mentioned above all star speaks more into who superman is at his core. He gave up in kingdom come & the outcome being seen in the story.which if you are talking about the character of superman isn't a great trait to look at. All star sees superman make the most of his time & not give in negatively to his fate.

Tre Hubb all star may speak more to Superman’s core, but kingdom come is closer to dark knight returns in how it shows the hero come out of retirement, face new threats of a newer generation, and fight other superheroes.

Hmm, i disagree with that. Both Batman and Superman are broad, universal characters. Captain America is way more specific to a period and place in american culture, that beign WW2 and is an allegory of the people who experienced it. The Marvel characters of the 60's, then, represent the Counter-culture movements. Both Batman and Superman embody diferent aspects of the american experience as well, but they tend to reflect changes in the way people relate to what they themselves are meant to represent -the ideals that they stand for- rather than beign alegories for the "spirit of the time".

@@brunofranco4416 you can disagree but the latest "the batman" trailer proves that batman has been and continues to be more popular in the american psyche longer than either one of those characters. i think you're confusing my statement with batman being the "most american" with the overt symbolism of said characters. Of course captain america was intended to be the embodiment of the american spirit, he wears the flag, but batman has proven to be for better or worse a more american entity based on the fact that his mythos have permeated american culture far more than captain america's (batmobile, joker, robin, batcave etc.) my point is batman somehow reveals things about america that transcends his or any other character's original intention.(i like superman more btw, there's no bias on my part, just a straightforward reading of american tastes.)

@@lefthandedsophiethepop-wit503 Wait, i dont see how that makes him more american, though. Like, i get that there's something about him that really draws the american crowd, but at the same time, Superman has not been portrayed faithfully (as far as im aware), what if this is just a result of the favoritism that batman received from DC and WB? If more characters got their time on the limelight, who is to say how popular they whould be today?

@@brunofranco4416 it's american because americans respond to it the most, culture doesn't have to make sense, that's my point. maybe it's the character's cynical urban violent worldview, or the theme of wealth bruce wayne/batman represents ("chicks dig the car."), these are all earmarks of american culture. Superman for whatever reason doesn't reflect the american collective consciousness like batman does, it's practically an anthropological fact at this point.

@@lefthandedsophiethepop-wit503 i dont buy that for a second(about Superman), i completely agree that Batman is a very american character, but i wont believe that the version of Superman thatw as shown to the public recently is the one that really reflects the character faithfully. Wonder Woman was portrayed well, just as she was in the tv series, but she never got as much exposure as Batman. If she had, who's to say she whould be just as popular as him now?

Finally a man of culture

Yes, it took me a year and a second reading to even begin to appreciate the subtle cleverness of the story. And how Batman sets up Luthor in the story is pure genius.

Yes it so BAd

@@fredrikgranstrom6743 filtered

@@sweeneezy what

Did you know Alan Moore regrets making the Killing Joke?

@@slothbaby2104 i think Moore pretty much regrets comics. Period.

@@youraveragecrownofthorns8919 If that were completely true he would have never made Tom Strong, 1963 and his run on Supreme

@@slothbaby2104 well... if it's completely true or not, i would say that he managed to write all that material before arriving at his current disdain for the medium, and for the past decade at least.

@@youraveragecrownofthorns8919 He made Tom Strong and America's best after he made the Killing joke

DKR III wasn’t written by Frank Miller.

Why was'nt Golden Child mentioned at the end also?

Ouch. Sounds like you lost your balls

​@@DeltaAssaultGamingouch, looks lije you have your masculinity shattered. 😅

I was a teenager when this came out and I don't remember the word fascism being used in reference to it's content at all. (I may be mistaken. No internet and my political understanding was poor.) Only much later did this seem to be commonly used in reference to this book and I think it may have more to do with some kind revisionism due to the direction the author himself went. On the other hand most of the analysis of Watchmen from that period still remains intact to this day.

I think that it is common place that fascism is conflated with authoritarianism in general discussion, even if as a historical phenomenon, fascism is its own thing. It doesn't mean that it isn't useful to discuss violent authoritarianism in media as "fascism". Maybe there should be a disclaimer that fascism as an construction of Italian politics of the 20th Century is not the subject of this video essay. But even then, we can say that with the disappearance or corruption of the state and the morality of the group in the America of TDKR, Batman is a kind of talisman for said fascist values. In the absence of the dispenser of values of the group, Batman becomes the state. He’s Il Duce of Gotham.

Humans have always been emotional.

@@MutantsInDisguise plus I figured he would dislike the idea that we all have anxiety or that we get depressed. That we can have feelings that keep is from doing anything and makes us question ourselves. When the view of objectivism is with willpower, one can overcome these emotions. Being told that willpower can't overcome anxiety/depression and that we have to live with these things is likely annoying to them.

Whats a GN?

Key Path Goofy Nerds

@@keypath4389, Graphic novel

For sure

Isn’t a Graphic novel its a Comic Book!!! Jerk!!

Blame Frank.

Regarding the sequels to Dark Knight -- *and* Watchmen -- my favorite statement on this was a piece in the New York Times. "The American novelist James M. Cain once remarked that he had rarely gone to see the screen version of one of his novels. 'People tell me, don’t you care what they’ve done to your book? I tell them, they haven’t done anything to my book. It’s right there on the shelf. They paid me and that’s the end of it.'" Then there's a story I heard about Isaac Asimov's reaction when he first saw "2001: A Space Odyssey." During the movie's intermission, he supposedly grasped the labels of his friend's jacket and exclaimed, "They're violating the Three Laws of Robotics!" His friend allegedly replied, "Well then, Isaac, why don't you strike them dead with a bolt of lightning?" At which point, again allegedly, Isaac got the point, sat down, and thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the movie." I heard that story but can't find a written reference to back it up.

True

Not really.

Agree with you!

I believe Miller refered to it as " gave Batman his balls back"

jesus. dumbass, the books almost 35 yrs old.

Maybe

He does?

The other way around. Due to the publication of the controversial book "Seduction of the Innocent" in 1954, comic books in general were forced to undergo severe tonal changes to avoid censorship. In Batman's case, his stories during the 50's and 60's were far more light-hearted, campy, science-fiction-oriented. This era was the inspiration for the 1966 show

Batman Year One and All-Star Batman and Robin are prequels to Dark Knight Returns. Then you have Dark Knight Strikes Again, Dark Knight 3: The Master Race, and Dark Knight 4: The Golden Child.

Yes.

I don't remember precisely, but it was from an early part of his Miracleman run. I do believe it was a phrase used when Miracleman and Bates fought the first time. So, roughly issue #2. I think.

How did TDKR ruin Batman?

Much like Batman himself, it was a necessary evil. :)

No u

My younger self would've agreed with you.