The Dark Side of Led Zeppelin's Legacy 

Not excusing anyone in Zeppelin with this. John Paul Jones tried hard to keep himself away from their behaviour. Staying separate hotels and such. He got harassed for it and became the outsider. Some say JPJ didn't sign their deal with the Devil and has escaped a lot of the tragedy and behaviour of his bandmates.

I specially like your take on the "separate art from the artist" debate. I mean, I agree that the most ethical thing to do is to quit supporting harmful or problematic artists, but people often talk about this like if artists were brands of shoes, like "I'll buy more Adidas for I don't want to support Nike anymore". Art impacts our lives in complex and often unpredictable ways and we can't fully control how it makes us feel, even if we know it's creator may not be the best person there is. I'm not saying good artists should'nt be hold accountable for their mistakes but I think we need to talk more about how art can still be meaningful even if we don't like the person who made it.

This video hit especially hard for me. I'm a HUGE Zeppelin fan but I'm also an abuse survivor, so there always remained a conflict in me when I felt touched and inspired by their art while knowing they have a spotty history in regards to misogyny, abuse, etc. The nuance and compassion you gave this topic is admirable and it helped put into words some of the complicated feelings I have towards Zep. Their work changed me for the better and I have derived a lot of comfort and happiness from their music, but it also doesn't mean I excuse their reprehensible behavior. Looking at Zeppelin as flawed, complex human beings rather than as perfect icons/idols or completely deplorable demons gives me a new layer of understanding to their work, as well as reassuring the nuanced perspective of them I hope more people can achieve. I don't think I'll ever stop loving and enjoying Zeppelin, but it's been a very freeing realization to me that sometimes being critical of the things you love, acknowledging its problems, and allowing room for those deeply human flaws to be Seen shows a type of respect and appreciation for art that is often misunderstood to be hateful. Not to mention it can help ME respect MYSELF more when I allow these men to exist as more than just easy-to-define caricatures in my mind. And this applies to more than just Zeppelin, too, considering Zep are FAR from the only ones doing this kind of stuff (I recently had to rethink my old admiration for Prince, so it's definitely something that isn't exclusive to Zep, nor is it something that started or ended with them... I appreciate a lot the way you acknowledged that, too.) TL;DR, love the video. Keep up the good work!

James Brown was the hardest working man in show business, but Poly is the hardest working music channel on RU-vid

I appreciate the nuance and humility in this series. I am right there with you, not just with music but with other art forms. Sometimes, I can't separate the artist, or I have to limit my consumption because it just reminds me of the chasm between what it once meant to me and what the artist now represents (esp. if the artist is still alive and causing harm 🙃). And sometimes I can contextualize it, let myself feel uneasy, and strive for something better. It's the best I've got, for now, and I genuinely believe that this is the path to something better in the future, still unknown.

I don't know if we _can_ have a satisfactory answer to the question of what to do with abusive artists. It's clear that we didn't kill the gods. We just pulled them down to our level. All we can do, I think, is try to make the world a better place, and try to hold power accountable. Even that is going to be a Herculean task.

Funny how, when I was 13 and "discovered" Led Zeppelin I thought Jimmy's and Lori's relationship was something to romanticize. I was always secluded, fantasizing. But i had to understand, the hard way, that there cannot be a healthy relationship when one admires the other too much, and the other does not reciprocate. Now i have a daughter, and that thought has been more than cemented. Their music is almost sacred to me, my daughter will grow up listening to them. But she will also know, in her due time, what they did and what kind of people they were, and how "normal" it was back then. A conversation i need to have, in order to change something for the better. I guess.

Led Zeppelin tells everybody what music and stardom is and what it should never be

When you started this series, I was thinking, "great, another Led Zeppelin series," but I've really enjoyed, and been impressed by, the complexity of the stories you've told. As you said, you are big Led Zeppelin fan, and you don't shy away from the full story. This is exactly the way I think great artists should be discussed - understand the great art and appreciate it, but understand the full complexity of the subject. Bravo, sir, bravo. This is an extremely well done series.

I'm so glad Led Zeppelin doesn't even have music videos, every video of them online is live, some interviews but the music was always in front of a crowd listening sitting down. Truly legendary

8:23 morgana welch, the girl with the blonde hair in the middle, told the story about this photo. she said that this was bonzos birthday party and everyone gathered in to take a picture and the baby groupies (lori maddox and sable starr) came out of no where. and sable (the girl with blonde curly hair sitting next to robert) made robert really uncomfortable. apparently robert actually felt really bad for the underage groupies. and that’s what the song “sick again” is about.

The Art Assigment here on youtube has a video about "love the art, hate the artist" and i really liked her take on the matter. And asterisk is always needed when we celebrate the art of a person that commited things that we would condemn without a second thought. In this case, its like poly said: this side of zeppelin must be talked about. It doesnt mean that people have to stop listening to them, applying that rule to every artist would very quickly cause a huge problem, but we cant keep hiding this things. You can love wagner but you gotta know that he was basically a pre-nazi, you can like picasso but you have to accept that his treatment of women was terrifying and you can love zeppelin but you have to say how they abused their status to get their way as many times as they wanted.

I think listening or not listening is too personal. And there are so many geniuses that have been (or are) abusers, bigots, etc that all of us has some piece of art that we can't let go of. Being honest about it, having this conversations, listening to victims, caring and not allowing new artists to get away with it, it helps a lot.

He didn't mention that page was also involved with "miss Pamela".another legendary groupie...long before she met and married Michael Des Barres...(whose first band "detective" was on Led Zeppelin's SwanSong label at the time)

You just described nearly every famous rock band from the 60s and 70s. They all partook in this kind of debauchery, especially with underage groupies, from Hendrix, Bowie, Morrison to Zeppelin, Rolling Stones and Motley Crue. Is it right? Of course an adult and underage teenager is not right, but its also incredibly easy to retroactively judge eras through today's social lens and standards. The environment, the culture and the nonchalant attitude of the sexual revolution paved a way for this kind of behavior and as you described, even promoted it in magazines and media. Zeppelin was a product of their environment. It's like trashing our Founding Fathers because they owned slaves, even though nearly everyone in a high position owned slaves in that time era. Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of these groupies that were "taken advantage of" were willing participants, and of course in the eyes of the law that wouldn't matter because of them being underage, but in that time era, many groupies would compete to get a bands attention, some taking it to extreme levels to sleep with band members, or go on tour with them. I just feel like this video is on par with a "Daily Beast" hit piece- digging up dirty on a single party and attempting to make the case that their legacy is stained because of supposed wrongdoings in an environment where these behaviors were extremely prevalent and even celebrated. Either way, I'm a fan of your work. You do a hell of a job on your videos, you're talented and you probably won't even see this rambling comment, but just wanted to provide some constructive criticism on this video. Cheers, mate.

Excellent vid Poly. As a huge Zep fan myself, reckoning with their complicated legacy is very difficult, but you've made that much easier with these magnificent videos. Thank you!

“When art hits you it hits you.” so true

Guys, what do we say about John Paul Jones? He tried to get away from his bandmates's behavior, but he was still a part of Zeppelin, therefore doesn't really get a pass on these things. What do you think of this?

Would it be fair to say that John Paul Jones was the least problematic of all Led Zeppelin members, since he wasn't infamous for engaging in the debauchery with other band members and was more 'introverted' and 'discreet'? Or should we say he was complicit in the problematic behaviour of his band mates?

This video is a bit frustrating because it's obvious you know a lot about the band, but the knowledge about band's members personal lives (that is subject of this video) is a bit superficial. At one point in time, I probably read every book/interview/forum post there was about the band, and I got much different impression about the excesses. For example, the picture you showed on screen with Sable and Lori in it was taken at Rodney's Bingenheimer English Disco during John Bonham's 24th birthday. There is an interview out there that I remember reading in which Plant got asked about that specific picture. The band obviously didn't want it taken, they were surprised by it, so the band members were not posing but Sable was. Apparently, Sable sat next to Plant just before the picture got taken. He was annoyed (you can see him giving her a side eye). He said he knew that this picture would end up in some magazine that his wife would see. I read many tell-all books including those written by women who were there: Lori, Pamela, Bebe etc. and none of them even hinted Plant was with Sable Starr. I think you jumped into conclusions based on just that picture. There is no reason for me to defend these men. There were many times their behavior (mostly Page's and Bonham's) was atrocious but after reading about many other bands it just doesn't stand out (which is sad). There are lots of myths about Zeppelin that they never cared to dispel and now it bites them in their asses. When you read direct interviews with people who were there it becomes obvious many of those outrageous stories were just not true or exaggerated. The fantasy is often more appealing, so it sticks. The infamous "Mudshark incident" at most included one member of LZ if it even happened. Plant didn't wear blouses of groupies he slept with, he bought them himself in vintage shops in cities they toured in etc.

I never heard of the mudshark incident, so I googled it. According to Carmine Appice's biography he was there and the people involved with the incident were the tourmanagers of Zep and Vanilla Fudge, none of the band members of those bands. So, it begs the question; can you hold that against the band(s)? If yes, in which way. and if not, why have you brought it up here?

Lori Maddox looks like a 13 year old girl in those photos. When you see these grown ass men almost twice her age partying with Lori and the one who was a groupie at 11, it puts into perspective how little respect they had not only for the girls, but their ages. Not everyone considers themselves victims when they’re assaulted, as Maddox doesn’t see herself as such. But she contradicted herself when she said she wouldn’t want that for anyone’s daughter, which shows that she isn’t as okay with it as she seems. The sad thing here is you got people, even tho the girl was 14 and the other 11, STILL defending The LZ crew. Yes it was decades ago, but even then any ordinary grown man “having sex” with an 11 or 14 year old would be seen as disturbing asf. It’s STILL disturbing!

Honestly I think Page’s predatory actions just reflect his personality. There was most likely something wrong with him. He had bizarre obsessions and seemingly no regard for morality, and the heroin addiction didn’t help. I look up to the art Page made, but I don’t look up to who he is

This series was incredible, and as a Zep fan uncomfortable in exactly the right way.

I want to thank you for this. I was a young teen at the time of Led Zeppelin's greatest popularity. I remember how many male fans would both drool over and slut shame groupies, and openly talk about their rape fantasies. When I was a young soldier, I was raped by a young men I served with, and the content and tone of the stories the guys told prevented me from telling anyone for 35 years. The respectful and critical attention that you give to sexual abuse of girls by "Gods" (blech) moves us away from harm and shame to respect and value. Thank you.

None of this is new, but it’s impact never lessens when told again. In fact, it’s retelling helps those who are victims of abuse or are currently in a situation that requires intervention. So thanks for this. 🙏🏼 Artists who choose a lifestyle of bohemian decadence bear a personal responsibility to society if that behavior victimizes the impressionable. It’s abusing the power that comes with public adoration. Morality doesn’t change across generations or certain periods of time. Whether it’s “flower power free love” or “gangsta” or “hipster”, whatever age identifiers we chose in fandom, it doesn’t allow free reign over immoral behavior simply because our music heroes are “cool”. Whatever artistic license our music heroes may choose, it doesn’t give them license to be immoral douchebags - simply because their popularity gave them the power to do so. Subscribed

Amazing series of videos, especially this one. I've always compared the struggle of liking music with artists that have complex and unsavory stories to liking a villain's character in a book- you wouldn't condone it and you understand and acknowledge what they've done and how it affects people, but you can enjoy what the character brings to the story as a whole, and they might even teach you something about yourself. Ultimately, all art is made by humans, who are imperfect and make countless mistakes, but knowing those mistakes and learning from them and seeing how that reflects in their art, makes the art itself human. Thanks for bringing up these topics, really enjoyed this month of videos!

Honestly I had no idea about this because I don’t really research into the bands I listen to, or even listen to the lyrics that much. I mostly just like the melody and that’s all music really is to me. The sounds are satisfying to listen to, and I don’t really care who exactly is creating them. But everyone is different…

You got it totally right on the money. You've just echoed of what I've been feeling. This comes from a musician that actually had a very strange mystical and scary experience when I met Jimmy Page in 1986 when I shook his hand at the back of the stage in Houston, as the Firm was rehearsing 12 noon.

you’re so good at editing videos it’s insane

When it comes to an issue like this, there are two paths that people often take. The first path is to cancel out the artist and their art completely. The other path is to ignore the artist's transgressions altogether and throw accountability out the window. I would argue that neither of them are correct. Because there's social context to their actions that cannot be ignored. While it's easy to simply *hate* Led Zeppelin, the fact is they were part of an entire culture and a society that *literally* treated famous male artists like gods. A culture that *literally encouraged* men to abuse their power. I'm not saying "times were different" as an excuse; I'm just saying it matters. It's an important piece of context. Because it wasn't just Led Zeppelin; it extended to Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Marvin Gaye, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, Steven Tyler, Red Hot Chili Peppers; the list goes on and on and on. Famous male artists were quite literally treated like gods. Sex with minors was all but in the same category as drug abuse. Anything went. There was *no accountability.* Obviously, this lack of accountability is *no excuse* for the artists' actions, but does that mean their art has no value anymore? Not at all. These artists weren't inherently terrible people. It doesn't take a complete sociopath to do some terrible, exploitative things if there's no accountability for them. Led Zeppelin were the same flawed, wretched, impure human beings as the rest of us. If anything, the art that they made should remind us that humanity is more complicated than Good vs Bad, or Saint vs Monster. People can make great art that touches the lives of millions while also exploiting and abusing their power. Both of those things can be true. It's complicated, but one doesn't necessarily cancel out the other. Most importantly, though we *cannot* treat artists as something greater than human. We *cannot* refuse to hold them accountable.

This has been my favorite polyphonic series ngl

To single out Led Zeppelin for behavior that was broadly encouraged in that scene at the time which we would all consider horrible today is not really fair

Gotta love it when everyone gets on their moral high horse, and act like we’re not all humans. How about we just love the music and mystique?

I can't claim to offer a Zeppelin-specific solution here, but one best practice I've developed in cases of great art from flawed people who did awful things is to remember Artemisia Gentileschi. She was a brilliant 17th-century painter in the style of Caravaggio, but for centuries she was remembered primarily for being assaulted as a teenager by a minor painter who was supposed to be mentoring her. (There was a public trial and the transcripts are WILD.) Recently, art historians have re-examined her art and she's now considered one of the finest artists of her generation. For Artemisia, things mostly worked out. But we know that's not how it goes for a lot of young victims, especially those who lack the power of the Gentileschi family. Less powerful victims may end up silenced or dead. So when I look at great art produced by someone who did awful things, I remind myself that the price of this art may be an Artemisia, or many of them, and all the art they might have made. It adds perspective, even when it's hard to feel sympathy for a potentially nameless teenage girl. I've seen paintings by the man who assaulted Artemisia Gentileschi. Her paintings are better than his. And we could have had a world without them. What was lost when those "baby groupies" were harmed? Something to remember.

this series has to be one of the best, most nuanced critiques of an artist's legacy ever made. thank you bro.

I’m not excusing anyone but this is a modern judgement about the past. My grandmother would’ve told those girls you made your bed you lie in it. Once you willingly stepped out of the social norms you were on your own.

This is a very important and honest appraisal. I am not a "direct" Zepplin fan like most of you here, but I came to appreciate their work at a later stage in my life - largely through their influence on my own cultural icon, Tori Amos. What I feel might give some answers to the questions raised in this video is that Zepplin were part of a cultural zeitgeist which was ostensibly Liberal and henceforth inclusive of the excesses and abuses that are documented in this video. When I was a young student the influence of this zeitgeist was still present, but another was being born, that heralded by Madonna, Tori Amos, and later by Alanis Morissette. Now this zeitgeist had a very different energy and impact to the one of Led Zepplin. As a young man I encountered the influence of Zepplin zeitgeist, rejected it, and embraced the dynamic of the latter one. Needless to say this brought about influences in my life just as the Zepplin zeitgeist has impacted the consciousness of many people here. I am not saying that one zeitgeist is superior to the other, but rather that they have different impacts. What I feel we can see in this, is that the questions raised in this video can be answered in the light of the cultural context of the Zepplin zeitgeist and its affect on society as a whole, as well as in the light of the important moral subjects raised in this video.

16:00 I appreciate this video and bring a focused and nuanced light to the problematic flaws of people generally treated as above the rest. However, the way I see it is this, your "what makes Bonham such a good drummer" is about the music styling. The skill, the notes, etc. It's educational and fascinating and bloating it with disclaimers about him as a person would seriously distract from the lessons and the thesis at hand. That being said, as a creator you can balance for it by having videos like this too. Putting it all in the same Playlist so people binging will see both. I always get concerned when historiogrophers or storytellers get caught up in trying to present a perfect view of a person. You can't. A story is a 2d look at a 3d world, it will always miss something. Multiple stories, multiple angles, thats how you present this stuff imo

This is similar to the discussion about the founding fathers of the USA. The new type of government they envisioned, and the lofty ideas they wrote into the founding documents need to be separated from the men themselves. They (for the most part) were flawed individuals. Yet, the country they formed and the ideals they espoused are truly remarkable.

You touch this kind of topics with so much nuance. So compassionate.

I think videos like this is about the best you can do to address these issues. I'm in the same boat as you. It's tough. We have to realize that these dark chapters are just a reflection of a sickness in our culture. It's good that these chapters are brought out of the darkness. Regardless Zep will always be a major part of my musical life. They were really the 1st to show me a world beyond what was on the radio when I was a kid. Jimmy Paige was the main reason I wanted to play music in the first place. I turned out to be more of a drummer, but I do play some guitar and I don't know if I would have done any of it without seeing The Song Remains the Same on VHS. Thanks for this important video.

I started watching this vid thinking it would be about the band's mythology and how they cultivated it.... I'm glad it wasn't all about that! I'm glad we're talking about the problematic aspects of Zeppelin openly, and other bands of the time. I spent years avoiding Zeppelin because of their abust and struggling with the art vs the artist idea. I think, as you suggested, the solution is to be conscious of the language we use when we talk about bands like Zeppelin, and hold ourselves and the rest of our musical scenes to a higher standard

Thank you for speaking truth. I can tell how much you love the music, so I know this must have been a difficult video to make. It's infuriating and depressing that this type of behavior continues to this day with performers like R. Kelly & Drake

I appreciate the HELL out of this video. I'm willing to bet the boomers are gonna flood this comment section with "this was a different time". I don't understand what's so hard about enjoying Zeppelin's music AND holding them accountable. No one is asking for a cancellation, a boycott, whatever. Literally no one. We just need to address those issues and stop brushing them under the rug.

2023: I've been a drummer since 1964, when I was 12. Great Great Music from those days. I still play drums and guitar. I loved and love their music along with that of many other bands from those times. It has been a wonderful trip. Thanks and Best Regards. I just found you and subscribed today.

Still one of my favourite bands, and Bonham will always be one of my favourite drummers.

My opinion is.... that there isn't much of a way to unpack this. Zeppelin belonged to an entire culture, and a time, in which "abuse" was the normal. That does NOT make it "right". But it's "what was", and Zeppelin were not alone in their behaviour. As you've mentioned. One could argue that their "extremes" in behaviour actually shone a light on "what so many other people were doing, had done and have done since". We think about, and try to get perspective on, human conduct - types of which, most of us will never be a part of. Sam McNally, Australia.

There's a lot of people here blaming the girls for "throwing themselves at Led Zeppelin" which is kinda strange. In a scenario where a young, inexperienced and immature child is trying to hit on fully grown, mentally mature adult men, I feel like the responsibility should fall on the adult men to not sleep with fourteen year old's, because they should know better than to do that. If a child was trying to sleep with you, and you were the adult in the situation, would you blame her for you giving in? And that's literally the whole point of this video, to hold the band to the standards of the everyday person. I don't really get why that's a concept that people refuse to grasp, if not just because it makes Led Zeppelin look really, really bad.

Great video. I was a huge Zep fan as a youngster, and to some point, I still am, but... This is big and cannot be ignored. Having said that, I think distinctions need to be made. Page was clearly a sicko obsessed with the dark side (Crowley and all that). And Plant simply could not get a grip on his narcissism. Bonham had serious issues as well. JPJ, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have participated in the debauchery (though you can never be too sure, but because of his character, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt). I should also add, that Led Zeppelin were by no means the only ones (or even the first ones) to engage in this kind of behavior. The Stones preceded them by a number of years, and far out-lived them, and probably outdid them as well. I also think you have to contextualize things. We're talking about a period in history that brought about the sexual revolution, women's lib, rebellion against the dominant culture, etc. This is not to excuse any of this. Obviously, Zeppelin made a big contribution to that culture, both musically and otherwise, but they didn't create it out of thin air. Zeppelin was post-hippie revolution. Young girls had already been leaving home at a very early age and sleeping around and doing drugs, etc., for a number of years. And by the way, if anybody thinks this sort of thing isn't going on today, they had better take a look again. It's just done more discreetly because of the potential legal consequences. We now know that it's been going on in Hollywood for decades (complete with blackmail of actresses for parts in films, and child-abuse of not only little girls, but little boys as well). How much of all that is reflected in Zeppelin's music is debatable, but obviously, a good part of it does show up. In fact, their first hit (Whole lotta love) is for all purposes and intents a musical representation of sexual intercourse. I can't listen to some of their stuff anymore. I generally stick to their more wholesome and artistically edifying material.

I'm very grateful that I had a pair of - but in no ways perfect, of course - grounded parents. I became a huge music freak at 14 - Elton was my first "musical love" - and subsequently a monster Zep fan. I heard and read about things like the mud shark episode, but I just chuckled, did a deep dive into the music (the production, the instruments/amps, the studios, engineers, etc...) and the other artistic aspects (album packaging, posters, etc...). Grant used the tried and true standard marketing technique of limited availability in order to whet the appetite of their consumers. Myths are not created by people who did the deeds. They are created by the people who document/report on those deeds.

I've only been a Zep fan since 1971; I remember the first time I ever heard Stairway to Heaven on the radio (it didn't actually make that much of an impression). I was also aware of the band's exploits. Even at the time, I thought "that's not right," but their music was so transcendent, I just pushed those qualms aside. The fact is, as Michael Herr said, Led Zeppelin wasn't a rock band, they were a mystery cult, and to be admitted, all you had to do was to buy an album. But, like Zeus raping Ledo, sometimes we just don't want to think about how our gods behave. In the end, I agreed with every single observation you made. Thank you.

Back in 1975 when I was 9 years old, there was a guy that I went to school with, a kid named Rocky. He was kind of a bully so I stayed away from him, but I do remember one day when Rocky came to school with a black eye. The scuttlebutt on the playground was his dad had punched him in the face. His dad was a big burly ex-marine who I believe had gone to Vietnam and probably was suffering from some pretty severe PTSD.The kids called his dad a "slap happy pappy." I remember people saying that his father beat all the members of his family pretty regularly. I also remember my parents having conversations about the neighbors. My mom would say "I think he beats the wife and kids". It would always inevitably end with "it's their family business" and end it at that. I also remember casual racism was pervasive and gay people didn't exist. Then you look at a lot of these pop/rock songs from that era with themes of misogyny and pedophilia and it makes sense for the American culture at that time. All this is out on display on Songs like "Hot Child in the City" by Nick Gilder. Or "Brown eyed girl." Or "You're, 16 you're beautiful, and your mine" sung on prime time television by Ringo Starr to a then underage Carrie Fisher. Cringy. So many other rock songs from this era were all basically about getting and using up a virgin girl. Thinking about all this in context, it seems like another planet. I remember a few years back when the Me Too movement happened. I remember sitting there thinking "oh wait they're just talking about the casting couch." That's been an open secret for decades. I mean I always just thought and accepted that any attractive woman in Hollywood had had to f*** somebody to get where she was at. I realize now how horrible that is but for a long time it was just an accepted fact. Anyways basically we are in a new era. That was a different world and we don't live there anymore. And that's a good thing.

Im in no way defending them with their sleeping with teenage girls, but it wasn't just them all the rock bands were doing it, its just Zeppelin were the biggest band back then, and when you're the biggest, people see everything you do, a lot of those girls were in places they shouldn't have even been in, mixing with adults, they also lied about their ages. Im not saying it's right because it wasn't, but it wasn't just them, it was also a different time.

I love that literally no one has to say something other than positive things for John Paul Jones.

Amazing series Polyphonic. This is a great deep dive into a variety of tough topics. Nice work sir.

I always wondered how the Wilson sisters could write a song like “Barracuda” and at the same time celebrate Led Zeppelin. The Kennedy Center Honors were too much for me.

I personally think Peter Grant was the best manager ever. He made a lot of changes in the way concert promoters dealt with musical talent.

this channel is genuinely one of my favourite channels, ever. i've noticed that the doors are very similar in the way of this "mythological storytelling", there are so many different accounts of one band that it's nearly impossible to tell what was true or not aside from videos and pictures. i just got into led zeppelin and i love their music, but you're entirely right, i should be holding them accountable. i like to think it's okay, but it's really not. what they did was disgusting, especially to minors. as a girl, i should be remembering these stories, and uplifting those harmed instead of those who harmed fellow women/girls.

As always, superb work by Polyphonic here. The background prep, writing, thoroughness, and production...just incredible. And it's great to see the thoughtful and sometimes painful comments in the wake of this excellent and challenging video. I don't have anything all that original to add to the discussion, and the internal struggle that comes from admiring the art or other work of a person or group and learning about things they did as people...it's awful at times. Led Zeppelin's music is amongst the best I've ever heard, and I've listened to them consistently now for over four decades. What do I do with my sincere love of their work in light of the things they've done? I have the same inner struggle with certain filmmakers, visual artists, literary artists, and so on. I still seek an answer regarding how to reconcile this conflict. Do I stop any activity that might enrich them somehow? Do I separate the artist from the work? What about when the artist is no longer living, can I go back to their work? I don't know. It's vital that we work through these contradictions and face whatever truth we might have to face about this topic. I'm very grateful to Noah for this essential work.

I think we're scrutinizing 1969 -1976 through a 2021 lens here. Plant and Bonham started touring with Page and JPJ when they were about 18 - 19 yrs old. There was a huge sexual revolution going on during those times. People are very sexual creatures and sometimes like doing things that others would consider perverse. A lot of crazy things happen when people go off to college, too, and that's without the open permission to do drugs. Many people tend to go through a time of excess when they're young. But during that era most rockstars were kind of like that. There are some crazy messed up stories of Don Henley while he was in the Eagles with drugs and groupies and ladies of the night. I would argue that is probably still the lifestyle of many of our current musicians on the charts today. Back then it still wasn't too uncommon for someone to marry younger than 16 and also have a large age gap in a relationship. I'm guessing it was something from the Depression era that we had to grow away from. People have learned a lot since then. That was a half a century ago. I am not trying to justify Led Zeppelin's actions or any other rockstars of that era. I just wanted to add a little more context to it all from my perspective. Led Zeppelin were so huge that I guess I worry that people will think that their behavior was exclusive to only them. This isn't even a critique. I thought this video was perfect. I've loved watching your Zeppelin series vids and this one is no exception. Beautiful work. There's no better tribute than the truth. Even if its hard to swallow sometimes. That's how we learn. Peace.

I grew up as a teenager in the 70s and was a huge LZ fan. It was the mythological themes and the occult feeling that intrigued me. I think they were totally original and used the music of other artists as influence only. Still love them to this day!!!

The parents of those poor underage groupies are just as guilty.

I've been thinking of getting a Led Zeppelin tattoo for a long time, as my mom who passed away a few years ago was a massive fan and we listened to a lot of music together when I was a kid. I wanted the zoso symbol but no longer did upon finding out that Page had a 14 year old girlfriend, so I decided that I could get Plant's feather, as he was my mom's favorite member anyway. This video is really making me think twice... I'm really torn

Thank you so much for making this video! Led Zeppelin is my favorite band of all time, yet I did not know how to tackle this conversation about artists and their abuse of power. The same question has troubled me in the case of Michael Jackson, who's music helped me open up (I was very socially awkward and shy as a kid lol) and start dancing freely. Your video really helped me understand how to tackle this issue that is seen repeating with so many artists.

Fantastic video. I think as we are now holding these people accountable that we used to collectively worship, we will all have to grapple with the unsavory past of many of the musicians and famous people we love. It almost seems unavoidable at this point.

This whole "Led Zeppelin Month" might just be your magnum opus

I respect and agree with your criticism of the band, yet I wonder how many of us could resist the temptations that they were presented with all of the time.

I was in high school when Zep spent hours on my turntable. Those lyrics reflected the times. I'm old enough now to be able to reject the lyrical content and still love the music. In the early seventies, when I was in high school, we just swallowed the lyrics without thinking about it. If someone's parents objected, we gave no thought to why. They were wrong. We were rebelling. Would it have mattered if the critique had focused on misogynistic lyrics rather than on how loud the music was, the long hair, the tight jeans, and the optics of rock and roll? I'm sure there were critics who did just that, but I was too busy working at the grocery store, cranking it up to 11, getting high, and suffering the angst of hormone driven first loves to think about intellectual criticism. Zep posed a bigger problem than the Beatles for many parents, yet the Beatles' Run for Your Life lyrics are horrible. "I'd rather see you dead, little girl, than to be with another man..." In a race to the bottom, I prefer hearing that a big legged woman ain't got no soul. At least she's not dead. We will always have a complicated relationship to history. I don't excuse black face. I don't excuse gay bashing. The misogyny of rap is worse. We have acknowledged the existence of domestic violence. We've had decades to bring a little more enlightenment to our lives - yet collectively we have supported the inexcusable with our dollars despite what our higher selves know. I can listen to Zep without feeling guilty. I can be very grateful that we have a better understanding of addiction. Yes, there is still a stigma, but help is much more readily available. (That Keith Richards and Jimmy Page are still alive is absolute proof that life is not fair.) I have a hard time when I hear Ringo singing you're 16, you're beautiful, and you're mine - when he's in his seventies. Ewwww...

The human experience is, and has never been, free of pain, exploitation, idolatry, or abuse of power… and if true honest art is a reflection, or a product of this experience, then the “darkness” will always be present in art, and therefore the artist. We can try to intellectually separate the craftsman from the craft, or accept that their art resonates with us… and we don’t have to understand why.

This is so true regarding celebrities, specifically Michael Jackson. Even if he wasn’t having relations with underage kids (which is hard to believe), it’s still highly inappropriate to having slumber parties with them, but he gets a pass because of his fame etc

I have been a massive Led Zeppelin fan but sometimes it is very tough to separate the artist from his art. This is the reason why I never listen to Guns n' Roses. I understand every one is flawed and everyone makes mistake. I fucking took up the guitar to be like Page and Brian May. It's hard to accept your heroes' flaws but I see no other way. Their music is one of the best ever recorded and ever heard my the human ear. If I don't separate them now, I have to stop consuming their music, which I can't do at any cost. I'm with you @Polyphonic. I remember discovering this channel in 2019 and since then it has been one of my favourite haunts on the internet. What matters is that the person who were the abusers understood the consequences of their actions. Everyone makes mistakes, does that make them a bad person? Maybe. I hope that they have understood their actions. Also, the hero-worshipping is another problem. The line, "Who wouldn't want to lose their virginity to David Bowie" makes my blood boil. But you can't blame her coz she was only a child. I will watch through this whole video, even if it makes me hate the people; becoz being ignorant can never be an option and I won't be one. @Polyphonic not matter what, no matter how controversial, don't stop posting videos like this; if one is a true fan, to really appreciate one's heroes, one needs to be informed about both their good and bad deeds

Our values and beliefs are representative of our generation, and our generation only. We cannot judge the past based on our current view of right or wrong. If you go this way, EVERYTHING done in the past will fall in the same category. (And I'm not defending any Zeppelin members behaviour.)

there should always be a separation between art and artist. If there isn’t, then that rules out all classical music an a lot of the music of the 20th century.

The best we can do is learn from the past. We can learn what circumstances led to what events. If we can analyse that, we know how we can do our best to avoid it in the future. It is sad that these things happened, but it's even sadder that these sort of things still happen today. We should've learned by now.

I got the honor of seeing them in 75’ and then again in 77’ when they were like 2 hours late. It was Bonzo’s bday and his riser came out to the front of the stage where the sold out crowd sang happy birthday to him!❤

Important video and conversation. Being a famous influential person does not grant you the right to ignore social and legal standards about how to treat other people.

Wow he actually had a Dennis Reynolds "Golden God" moment?

I don't listen to Led Zeppelin much these days, but I do listen to David Bowie and Michael Jackson periodically. When I think about the kind of people they ended up being, it still feels odd -- almost dirty -- to listen to their music. But the music itself was always so good, and some of it tells amazing stories! It really is difficult to reconcile your feelings about the creators when they have produced many wonderful works -- especially ones that you grew up with -- but you know that they were deeply troubled, flawed, or even disgusting human beings.

Listen, being a musician who gre up in the late 70s and early 80s things were looked at different, in retrospect it's appalling but at the time as with other societal behavior things have changed and for the better , I'm not proud of the the things I did but I did them . I don't know how to answer to someone who didn't live through the times but I can say it's in the past and it's a better world now, you can't judge if you haven't lived it .

this meant the WORLD to me. i live and breath zeppelin every day. its my sanity. and yet-im pissed about all that shit too. i hate them for what they did, but i wont live without their music. we really needed someone to talk about it, so thank you. no one has ever framed it like this. you cannot talk about this enough. this was incredible. Heres my vote- we do exactly what those women do- love them and hate them and listen to them complain about them challenge them accept them teach them and most of all-- most of all- make art that talks back to them. i think those women would want that, and there would be no greater way to honor them anyway.

To be completely honest, this was probably your most necessary work yet. We praise these artists for their music, but you’re the first big RU-vidr who can praise and criticize them too, at least that I’ve seen. I really hope some day uou touch on the legacy of the Beatles, my favourite band, most notably John Lennon’s horrible history with women. That’s a subject I hate to bring up, but John was not a good person through the majority of the Beatles and solo career.

can’t separate the art from the artist

As a Doors fan, I deal with people who like to point out how bad Jim Morrison could be. I acknowledge those negative aspects but I still like Morrison and the rest of the Doors. I then point out Led Zeppelin’s checkered past to the Zeppelin fans that slam the Doors for that and they fall silent.

You have thrown many stones this month - most (if not all) of the artists you have featured on this channel are equally susceptible to this treatment. If you're going to ask us to not view artists as gods but as people, we should do the same for artists like Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Bob Marley, and many others which have been lionized here. I also find it remarkable of you to point out Led Zeppelin's abuse of women one week when the week before you were accusing them of cultural appropriation of Blues music - Blues music is rife (one could even argue built on) lyrics which espouse violence against women. If we're going to question Led Zeppelin on it, we need to question Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson and many others. You've pointed out similar issues with Pop Punk, maybe we should explore the misogyny in Hip Hop? If we're going to shine lights on problematic lifestyles, we should consider making it a lantern instead of a spotlight and open it up beyond just one band, or even one genre.

8:23 JPJ flippin the bird at someone

It's so good to listen to a person who is a fan of Led Zeppelin talking about these issues, because often I see fans just pretending it never happened or it doesn't matter, or people who talk about it through complete hate. But I am a woman who loves Led Zeppelin and I never knew how to reconcilie these things. So it's a relief to have someone else talking about it, even of there are no real answers in the end.

2:00 love the intro mix you did. Immigrant Song scream with Achilles riff with Echo. Hits so hard. Would love a full remix of this.

Great video. To me, my perspective comes down to my personal humanist philosophy: Worship humanity, never worship a human.

i admire the courage of this piece. I have been an unconditional super fan of the music for over 40 years and have read and written extensively about them but have never seen the group (members, roadies, etc..) depicted as honestly, Kudos.

I don’t think the answer is to separate the art from the artist, but I don’t think the answer is to cancel zeppelin and forget they exist either- avoidance is not the same thing as recovery. Your video is a good start in my opinion- we can still acknowledge Led Zeppelin and the things they accomplished while also ensuring that their abusive behavior doesn’t get lost to history. I would generalize this to all media created by people who do awful things: we can enjoy it, but only as far as we hold space to learn from their behavior at the same time

Man, do I miss the old/regular intro of your videos. I'm really used to this song and like it a lot actually.

I love the aspect ratio! (and the content)

Don't be naive, folks. Rockers, not just zep, have been into drugs and sex. Artists, like actors and musicians, are very emotional and often given to their passions.

It's almost like putting people up on a mile high pedestal, loading them up with an inhuman amount of drugs, and shipping them around the world to crowds of people to build that pedestal higher is a really bad idea. I'm surprised more didnt go wrong.

I had a ticket to see Led Zeppelin at Madison Square Garden in Manhattan but my parents moved me to Florida before the show. I then bought a ticket for the concert in Miami at the Orange bowl but the city of Miami canceled the concert because they didn’t want hippies destroying the football field. I then bought a ticket to see them in New Orleans and my mom found weed in my underwear drawer and took my car keys away for me and I couldn’t go to the concert. I then bought a ticket to Orlando and Robert plants son passed away sadly. I then had a ticket for Tampa where I bought the ticket in Miami got tear gassed and my head bashed in by the Miami riot squad. On the way to Tampa my beat up 1971 fury three overheated several times we had to get Canal water just to get to the stadium. By the time we got to the stadium the heavens opened up into a deluge of rain like you could not believe. When the rain stopped we got out of the car and turned the corner of the stadium and got trampled by another riot where I got tear gasses again. Another show was canceled when Jimmy Page broke his arm. I never got to see Zep live. I finally saw Robert Plant on my 55th birthday, but never saw Jimmy Page. Unreal, right?

Hey, proud of you for choosing to walk down this hard road! It’s not easy to be both inspired and repulsed by something, but choosing to seek out the good and lovely things of the world while still decrying the wicked will surely help make it a better place. Keep it up.

As a new rock fan I didn’t know any of this. I also saw a bunch if striking similarities with the movie almost famous. The guitarist having a relationship with a curly haired teenager , and another groupie in the movie called bay bay

So brave of you to confront Zeppelin’s most troublesome aspects. I’m sure many in the comments will pillory you for it, but know that I-and most others-support you. Thank you.

You were the first RU-vid channel I ever subscribed to! You have such a talent for editing and music analysis!