The death of the midrange Yu-Gi-Oh deck. 

_It's tough being the middle child._

I know you guys get smacked with the "Always Negative About The Game" label but I think you guys give some really good ideas and talk about genuine problems of the game. Thank you for the insight.

It used to be that when a combo decks board was broken, they couldn't recover easily, let alone have enough resources to immediately pop off again the next turn. That element being gone for the most part removed the only disadvantage combo had, which in turn made it the overall best style to play.

The reason why nothing is truly midrange or control anymore is that combo decks have gotten so good and unpunishable with over-extending, that every other deck needs to either play only cards that combo to keep up, or play a bunch of handtraps just to deny the opponent. This result has ruined a lot of traditional deckbuilding skills and the overall tempo of the game.

You guys realize what a content creating machine Paul is?

To be honest, I haven’t even thought of the game in terms of the basic card game archetypes (aggro, midrange, control) since I started playing again around 2018. It’s only basic deck builds in my head for the modern game are “going first” or “going second” decks

I think it's rather telling that honestly most control decks these days it's frankly hard to tell them apart from combo decks since they usually end on the same set of extra deck monsters by and large

Swordsoul perfect example of midrange deck and completely power creeped

I notice a similar thing in master duel. I hang out around the silver-gold area because I'm a casual player, but I also max out the DC cup each time it comes around. You'd think that I would get a lot of variety in what I fight... but I don't. I only encounter 5 different decks: Dark Magician Blue-Eyes The Newest set to be released (Snake-eyes) The "meta" deck (Transaction Rollback Turbo) The previous "meta" deck (Superheavy Samurai) Throughout those 100 or so duels in the DC cup I have encountered... one tri-brigade player, two mathmech players, one punk gold-pride, one chain-burn, and one person playing anti-meta. Also in the low ranks I encountered one Earthbound OTK (not the new earthbound cards), and that was a treat. Seriously, there's no variety in what I fight. I can't remember the last time I saw something like admanacipator, PKfire, nekroz, purrely, scareclaw, ghoti, drytron, thunder dragon, sprite, etc. and so on. This may be an aside, but what I'm getting at here is that the lack of midrange decks is partly a player issue. It isn't that these decks and strategies don't exist. It is that the playerbase, by and large, doesn't care about them. Most people are either meta sheeple, or they're gen-wunners.

Mid range is exactly what i play in magic. I see nothing similar in Yugioh personally everyhing feels either too comboy or controlly.

Two examples of Midrange decks I thought of was Ghoti and Nemleria. Ghoti ramps up over time, setting up on turn 1-2, and pushing for game on turn 3+. The deck does not combo insanely like shs, but can control your opponent somewhat with the many banish disruption ghoti has. With Nemleria, the deck leans more towards control, but can end on powerful monsters, and can play powerful engines such as Adventure, Diabellstar, and Dogmatika. The deck could also play dimensional fissure and shifter for control. I consider these 2 midrange (also you should play either or both in a video someday!)

Combos decks with 15+ 1 card starters make everyother deck irrelevant, then 5-10 extenders, then 15-20 hand traps, thats all toxic to yugioh imo

Aggro/combo/control doesn't even apply to modern yugioh. Every deck save dedicated going second decks have massive one card combos turns 1 and 2, almost every meta deck aims to make an unbreakable board with disruption and negation on board to stonewall the opponent, and almost every deck can put 8000+ damage on board and almost all games are 2-3 turns. Decks are running as many as 20 hand traps, and they're not struggling to do so because engines are so powerful and redundant that you can run like an 18-21 card engine and it'll run circles around old decks that were like 30+ engine. Midrange can't exist in a game where games effectively end turn 1 or 2 because they're defined by the back and forth.

Man I love yugioh but it does bum me out when I go to locals and it’s literally all snake eyes fire kings

Voiceless in my opinion is the best a mid range deck can be. Has multiple pathways, can play around certain hand traps but the steps to get there are very small. Has options for extra deck extensions or just pure control versions. a Good mid range deck should be able to slot themselves into a control or combo deck strategy

I think Monkeyfight's new video on powercreep covered the reason behind this pretty well

Definitions as I understand them. Combo - A deck that makes plays from using small monsters going into big monsters building a giant field. (Synchrons for example) Aggro - Decks that want to end the game as quickly as possible, either through FTKs or OTKing, usually your going 2nd decks. (Hieratic or even Cyber Dragons) Mid Range - A deck that makes smaller boards with great recovery to rebuild said boards. (Branded pre-Cartesia) Control - A deck that limits what the opponent can do. (Floo, Umi Control) Now most modern decks do have an element where aspects of the deck are coming from multiple categories. For example, Red Dragon Archfiend is a midrange deck with Combo, Control and Aggro being pulled into it. It's boards are usually on the small end (Supernova, Abyss, Dis Pater, Crimson Gaia, Red Zone), while these cards can control the field (2 board wipes, 2 potential negates, 2 potential pops) and due to the extra deck, they have the OTK potential and can operate going 2nd if built accordingly. The most effective way to win the game is to limit your opponent's plays as much as possible. Most modern decks can do this to some degree, so they do have aspects of control.

It is really hard to categorize current yugioh decks into Aggro / Control / Combo / Midrange / Tempo. I feel like those concepts were more applicable on retro formats like goat, edison, and so on. Today it feels to me like almost every yugioh deck is a Combo deck, and it can also tend to have some aggro elements or control elements in it. Sometimes we can still see what would be like a "pure control deck", which would be like Paul described, a stun/prison deck. I also play magic the gathering, and if you show a recent yugioh match to some mtg players, they wil think that every yugioh deck is combo. Actually, in my opinion, it has been more than 10 years since yugioh transformed into a battle of combo decks.

I just made a vampire deck and took it into master due. I got a field spell and a continuous spell and 2 monsters on the field, and my opponent just sat there for a minute and instantly quit. Then, I used vampire vampire to take my opponents synchro card and attacked and ended my turn. The dude still had backrow and 2 cards in his hand. Before he even drew a card, he instantly quit. I didn't even have game yet, and I only had vampire vampire on the field. Like unless he had no monsters in his hand and absolutely nothing to stop my attack or reduce the damage, I feel like he could have pulled something off, especially since he was playing speedroid.

The problem is the ideal strategy for modern yugioh is to simply not let your opponent play. Essentially every deck wants to be control. Doesn’t matter if you have a combo deck when your combos just end in big monsters with numerous negates

I think the issue is that aggro combo decks sort of either are all midrange, or easily pivot into midrange. Like diabellestar/snake eyes for example. Yea they combo like crazy, but they could also just sit on diabellestar, a luciella and some snake eyes grind stuff if for some reason it came to it.

Personally I think thinking about yugioh by using terms like midrange that come from card games like mtg and hearthstone where there is mana that ramps up is just wrong. We should come up with other terms to explain modern yugioh decks. I realised this when farfa and josh had a discussion about "combo" decks. Damn near every yugioh deck has to "combo" to some degree, the difference comes in where and how the decks interact.

I've always found this thinking rather narrow. Just like people have always said "Yugioh isn't like other card games," the same kind of applies here. Yugioh doesn't have traditional deck archetypes, and we really only use terms like "control" and "aggro" out of a weird obligation to fit in with other card games. Maybe once upon a time you could easily categorize Yugioh decks, but that hasn't been for a very long time.

Rarity Collection didn't bring it back like it was suppossed to. We had a few good months where any of 40 decks could have topped a regional before AGOV wiped it all out. Pure Fire King could have been the best Mid-range deck in a long while if Snake-Eyes didn't warp it into something so much stronger.

I think yugioh players have a very fucked up definition of control. yugioh players seem to think stun decks are the only form of control when I honestly think control leans more toward vanquish souls, where there's tons of reactive interaction but not way too long of a combo, they just kinda make rock a search a little on turn 1

Aggro, Midrange, and Control could be defined as the amount of combo lines the deck has. Recursion takes it closer to Midrange

I think Blackwings is a midrange combo nowadays since it has lines that drop into either control due to running assault mode turbo and CD Infinity negate + fog blades, let alone the fact of access to a towers in Full Armor Master, or dumping resources into Chidori's buff, or going for Arc Rebellion to negate board and punch for massive damage.

I think the hallmark of what makes something a 'control' deck is having a resource loop that's easily and possibly indefinitely able to be sustained like with Labrynth furniture or how floo monster constantly bring themselves back to hand. Combo decks have more and more follow up nowadays but it's usually a finite amount however in recent times that finite amount is all they really need to close out the game which takes away from the benefits of control styles. Midrange decks are decks that put up strong boards but have an emphasis on securing follow up but not infinitely following up like a control deck

to me there are 6 deck types Aggro: deck basically tries to OTK while also invalidating your opponent's board. Things like Fluffals, Cyber Dragon, Crusadia, Blue Eyes, Lunalight, Trains, Numeron. Control: you're trading resources while also outgrinding your opponent out of theirs. Things like Umi, Orcust, Sky Strikers, Gladiator Beasts, Burning Abyss, Satellar Knights, Altergeist, Dragonmaid, Drytron. Ramp: starts off vulnerable but as the turns pass it gets stronger and snowballs. Things like Lightsworn, Dark Magician, Infernoids. Combo: imo if your deck goes beyond 5 special summons with many extenders then it's a combo deck. things like Code talkers, dragon link, adamancipators. Midrange: imo is a deck that moderately searches or has good draw power without using the pots but can't make super aggressive boards like Salamangreat, Vanquish Soul, Phantom Knights, Fire Fists, Suships, Six Samurai, Sacred Beasts, Infernobles. stun: these are decks are decks that floodgate you or lock you out of specific plays and lacks a win condition other than hoping to chip you out stall the game to a crawl until they draw exodia or something like Crooked Cook Exodia, Skill Drain Beatdown, Mystic Mine.

What I've found to be the best indicator of deck type is follow up in relation to the outright stopping power of the end board. Because Yugioh is almost exclusively combo decks (not to be mistaken with Aggro decks), I think the amount of follow up is what dictates the type. If you blow your whole load turn one and have no follow up if the board gets broken, you're an aggro deck, if your end board focuses less on raw stopping power and rather on redirecting the flow of the game and has all the follow-up i the world, it's a control deck, if your deck has less raw stopping power than an aggro deck but more than a control deck, and less follow-up than a control deck, but more than an aggro deck, it's midrange

Idk who thought up Swordsoul at Konami but I think that should be the standard for new archetypes they create. They made it splashable with Tenyi which always felt like an incomplete archtype to begin with & they really complemented each other where the 2 archetypes feel synonymous. Swordsoul I feel is a great mid-range deck that can go 1st or 2nd, puts up a nice board but also one that can be broken, giving the opponent a chance to establish their own board/chance to win. Has options with in archetype cards to navigate established boards, in archetype boss monsters which felt strong/meaningful, left room in the deck for handtraps/staples. Just a great all around deck that feels fair & nicely balanced.

As someone who is actively building fun decks to play with my friends and online i would love to see earlier formats make a return but in every game that exist today there is a meta and I’m sorry as long as powerful cards exist and are legal they will be used by everyone. Everyone wants the taste of winning even if it means everyone runs the same hand traps and extra deck.

For me one of the big differentiating factors is how much the deck plans around the game going past turn 2. For a deck like Block dragon adamancipator that I used to play on MD, your T1 plays are very insane, but if your opponent clears your board your extra deck might just be out of gas and you just lose even if you get another turn. On the other hand in a deck like swordsoul you maybe use 3-4 cards from your extra deck on the first turn, and mo ye/taia can often get you followup for next turn while doing your combos on the first turn, so the recovery is much easier. I do agree with the general sentiment that as the game speeds up, the lines between archetype become more and more blurred, to the point where differentiating between midrange and control or between aggro and combo become very blurred. But in my opinion, how long a deck takes to do its turn isn't a good benchmark of whether it's combo or midrange, it's in my opinion more about how well the deck can recur resources and play a longer game if plan A of killing didn't work out too well. For that reason I'd for example argue that Snake eyes probably is closer to midrange than combo for example - the issue is not about the gameplan, it is about the relative power level of the deck in the format. The deck sets up a very strong but not unbreakable board with plans of recurring resources and rebuilding on their next turn to kill. Mannadium on the other hand want to just negate all your plays and kill you without necessarily having to do anything at all on T3 except going to battle and attacking. It's just that any deck that is significantly more powerful than the surrounding archetypes seem like a combo deck when you compare them. I definitely agree with the assessment of vanquish soul being a very midrange-y midrange deck, but if you sent it through a time machine and printed it in goat format I'm sure it'd be the very definition of a combo deck just because of how it plays relative to the rest of the format.

A mid-range deck is a duck that can get out between 1or 2 extra deck monsters. Anne have monsters that are good but not broken. Where the card has a clear weakness that you can exploit. Slash a deck that doesn't kill you in 1 to 3 turns

Purrely is a mid-range deck. The boards only summon like 3-5 times max but have good recurrsion and disruption.

I don't even play Yu-Gi-Oh but I want a expensive mid-range blue eyes white dragon Deck with the obelisk god card

You should make a deck profile of your Rescue-ACE deck

I created a discussion about this on Reddit months ago. And this is how I classify deck type in YGO. This is more like a "wishlist" for Konami to create a balance deck type. . For example, I classify a combo deck as a deck with good ability in consistency (3 points), versatility (3 points) (playing under disruption), & attack (3 points) (but it can change, depending on the uniqueness of the deck). But slightly weaker in disruptions (2 points)(you can switch it with the Attack, stronger disruption but lower attack, depending on the uniqueness of the deck). Lastly, the recovery (1 point) is very weak because the combo must be a "put all in 1 basket" type. For the control, I give strong points on disruption (4 points) and recovery (4 points). Bad at versatility (1 point) and attack (1 point). But the consistency (2 points) is slightly better. . I know this is very difficult to classify the real YGO decks with those points. But I hope Konami really has a plan before they create something. Also, to make it easier to measure the point. Arctype should have more restrictions or difficult requirements (non-generic). The reason why we difficult to measure the deck type in YGO, is because everything is too generic.

The problem is the splashability of any engine staple, or boss monster into any deck. Unless you play pure archetype your deck is a combination of 2-card engine that combos into your main archetype that then goes into a lockdown setup.

i think the definitions are more so related to how decks spend their resources. aggro decks spend a lot of resources all at once, and typically spending their resources grants them access to even more resources. control decks prefer to spend their resources more slowly over time, and their resources typically prevent their opponent from amassing resources basically aggro decks will sprint to the finish line, and control decks will walk to the finish line while tripping anyone who tries to pass them

Well referring to the first two years OCG, YGO began with 4 deck strategies: Beatdown, “Deck Destruction” (mill), various Exodia turbo strats, and Burn FTK (ie, pre-errata Cannon Soldier). I bring this up bc only one of these was a Control deck, which was Deck Destruction. What do the two best decks of the last 3 years have in common? They’re Beatdown decks with OTK potential, and they have some of the most aggressive mill effects in the game. We may classify decks as “Aggro” or “Control,” but the metagame doesn’t want one or the other. A competitive deck has to do both.

Going to be honest, I think its dumb applying hearthstone and similar game's terminology to yugioh. Trying to label now is especially difficult, because if you go back 10 years ago, things were all either OTK/FTK/or this "mid-range". Yugioh at its core game play is "mid-range". So we never called it things like that. You just say what a deck is and that's what it is. "What are you playing?" "Blackwings" not "mid-range" "what are you playing?" "Chain-burn", "stun", "Mermail" "Wind-ups" "spellbooks" etc. the need to put as some sort of umbrella term is just something that stems from other games and its really not necessary.

I play with no links, synchros, or xyz just because i dont have time to learn combos and Im not interested in learning either. I usually get rid of top tier cards by playing 3x copies of Lava Golem and Winged Dragon of Ra Sphere Mode and usually play either a retro deck, deck out cards, or use damage cards.

All this video boils down to is personal preferences; such terms like “mid-range” are relatively meaningless in the modern game because most Decks can easily dish out 8,000 worth of damage over a single turn. Are we really going to pretend that a Deck like “Vanquish Soul” can’t OTK against an empty board much like a combo Deck can? Or that “Vanquish Soul” is just as capable of denying your opponent resources by repeating interrupting/destroying your opponent’s cards on their own turn, much like a massive board full of omni-negates? The mental gymnastics in this video is downright atrocious.

Given how lengthy turns in Yugioh have been known to be (occassionally to a comical degree), what really is classified as a midrage deck? Is it just one that makes the game last longer than 3 turns? I wonder if someone who plays a deck that keeps the game going for 5 turns could be classified as stalling now.

The problem now is combo and control decks also get the same benefit that midrange decks used to have. Seemingly every deck can do it's full combo, control the game with 5+ negates and if you do break the board they can just easily bring back most of their board straight away.

New drytrons, midrange ritual combo with heavy recursion! Yippee! And you can still turnskip using Invoked Caliga, if you feel degenerate.

Honestly peoples that call you too negative on the game are whales that will actually kill the game because they refuse to aknowledge the game problems, especially the lack of new casual players, watching someone play solitaire for 10 minutes isn't fun for normal peoples

EARTH Machine is more Combo now but it was definitely a Midrange/Control strategy when it started. The whole combo is just to set up a resource loop that lets you play the rest of the game.

I think the key difference is proactive vs reactive. Aggro and Stall already have a plan to win, and the player doesn't need to think as much about the other player actions. A midrange deck is more about reacting/countering your opponent with specific and decisive actions, and thus is why it has probably fallen out of favor. But really, there rarely is a pure aggro, midrange, or stall deck, and is more of a spectrum.

Its been mentioned elsewhere but largely the difference now between mid range and pure combo is combo wins turn one if not interrupted successfully where as mid range can still do that but its final board can be broken only for it to largely rebuild that board the next turn. A bit like Man vs Unchained or reacue ace last format. There isn't really a good Yu-Gi-Oh deck that cant win turn one now without drawing a bad hand or successful interrupted.

Some of thr problems for alot of decks is, if you look at alot of the cards/decks. Alot of them feel like they were made with a sealed environment, without everyone running handtraps that facilitate the need of needing starters that +2 you and now you need +3 starters otherwise whats the point? Its like when you look at the 'heart of rhe underdog' format and they make a banlist that floats around the idea of keeping meta defining cards out you see some archtypes really shine using the tools that they have, otherwise whats the point? And until you have a massive banlist happen to 'fix' the issue we aren't going to see midrange decks be able to flourish because the top combo will just stomp on it. Its like beetroopers is a great archtype that does alot of link climbing and getting materials moved around but at the end of the day whats it really able to do without a strong starter.... Vaylantz you'd think an archtype all about moving cards around could put up a fight against snake eyes.....

The main problem we have here in TCG is the rarity diversity, thats why decksthat died like 2 months after like VS had literally BS prices.

Maybe at the next tournament, they can award more points to people winning with lower power decks. Usually prizes push innovation.

But isn't pure snake eyes midrange? Because I the way I play it feels midrange. And honestly I actually love the the recursion and the grind game potential. It actually made me reinstall master duel because I feel more in control of the game state at all times.

I'm not someone too deep at all into the competitive scene of YGO. Actually only started playing again after a break since 2011 in 2022, with the release of Labrynth, but I've been active in MTG for those years. It definitely seems that the definitions have become much murkier in modern YGO than most, if not all other TCGs I've dabbled in over the years. Don't want this to be taken in too negative a light, I wouldn't have come back if I didn't enjoy it after all, but such overarching descriptions don't really hold here I feel. It's much more a deck by deck basis at this point. A kind of match up and knowledge check, how to deal with what the opponents specific flavor of disruption does, and where their combos are vulnerable. My personal favorite analogy for how I see the game is, that it's the fighting game of TCGs. Super brutal entry if you wanna be even semi competent. Combos, but also fundamental knowledge checks all around. And almost each deck feels like a wholly new character you're facing off against. Even that the best thing to do to learn the match up seems to be "have a friend that plays it and train together" or "play it yourself for a bit and see where it falls short firsthand" This kinda turned into a ramble as well, but I feel that that's just the nature of the subject here

Beetrooper is a solid midrange, has good beaters, sticks to the board especially if you play a slightly larger Krawler package. Searchable negates with Fly & Sting, Scale Bomber and Cicada King or even Baronne if you want to go down that route. Midrange is anything that can't function as a 20 card engine with space for 20 board breakers, handtraps or utility. Top tier is highly splashable even in weird situations due to inherent engine power level. Midrange may also just be a symptom of how a deck reacts to 1 or 2 negates going second. Is your deck setting 2 pass or endphase normal summon stucj on the field if going second? Decks can only do so much with a 6 card hand

The Yu-Gi-Oh community really needs to push older formats (like Edison ) it's the only way to make older decks playable.

I think one of the best midrange decks currently is goblin biker because they don't have a lock built into them and they are good at breaking certain boards going second and good at setting up powerful boards and only need a couple of easy to learn engines like ghostrick and full armor XYZ at my locals I haven't gone against snake eye fire king yet so I'm not sure how it fares against that match up but every other deck I've gone against has a lot of other decks and had good matches with it

I call it a toolbox deck but yeah, midrange decks don't have enough gas to currently compete at a high level while running the best hand traps to really shine at what they do. Ash x3 Nib x3 Imperm x3 Veiler x3 Shifter x3 Then packages like Talent/Thrust x3 mix, Dark Ruler or Droplet + Duster or Lightning Storm, and a pot card That's 21 cards already before you even build your engine. Midrange means playing like you have Batman's belt and it's really hard to do that fast enough, when the entire point of midrange is to have a back and forth fist-fight and not a "I went first, play the same engine or lose" game. It's not those decks' fault either, they're just a product of what the game has become

There's no distinct real deck style in *modern* Yugioh. Decks are melting pots of every deck type all in one deck now (some just sway to one type more than others): aggro/combo/control. There's no such thing as a mid-range deck because Yugioh *doesn't* have a mid-game, it's just: starting point->end board over and over again. There's no gradual buildup of an overall plan over multiple turns. *Any* deck can have negates, handtraps, board-breakers, card draw, floodgates placed into them. Most decks can OTK on turn 2. Branded can do that very easily. Lab, Traptrix, Amazement, Altergeist can have their boss monsters in play on their 1st turn. Aggro decks? Why would you need an aggro deck when you can flood the field so easily and everything can attack the turn it's summoned? There's an old MTG article that goes into why having balanced pacing between deck styles is *very* important called: *Philosophy of Combo, by Melissa DeTora* . It's a very good read.

Modern Yu-Gi-Oh doesnt really have a midrange deck anymore. Theres only 2 deck types. Aggro (FTK decks) or Combo (Turn 2 /Control ). Combo decks in Yu-Gi-Oh are basically full negate boards. Unfortunately i highly doubt we will ever get the game to a pace that "Mid-Range" is ever a good strategy ever again

Firstly, love the new setup. I feel like you're also been seen a lot better and even not there it just feels more spacious. Secondly, feels like we play a bunch of the same decks. I highly recommend nemleria it's a fun deck that is secretly really good. Just came out when people weren't paying attention it is just a few cards away from breaking the meta imho

Yugioh feels like one of the only games where the object of the game is to prevent your opponent from playing.

My view of modern Yugioh or has i called post-PePe yugioh is this (dragon rulers were not the shifting point, was PePe): Stun, Mid-Combo, Super Combo. Stun decks are what people would usually call "control", but they're not they are just stun decks. A lot of the same people that are demonizing runicks are some that love Sky Striker, as a control deck that was fair for the game it wasn't. The best Sky Striker moments in yugioh are two Kaiser Coliseum and Mystic mine. That's it. A more modern stun would be runick stun and Labrynth stun (used by Dinh-Kah Bui, one of the greatest ever, so think well before demonizing stun decks). Mid-Combo are what would be called mid range, but mid combo in my opinion is a better word to describe. This would be unchained, combo runicks, purrely, rescue ace. Some have more combos others less. This in my opinion is the best way to approach a format. And then super combos, they just want to ftk or semi-ftk, if they are too oppressive they completely shape the meta into a lot of handtraps, like snake eyes or Superheavy, or in past b.a.s.e.d or adventurer punk, or every scythe lock deck. That's how I view post-PePe yugioh. Trying to squeeze Yugioh into terms that were used to describe decks from 10-15-20 years ago is not good for the evolution of the game and for new players understanding. Not saying that my description is perfect, i think is just a step out of the darkness. Peace brother 🤟🏽😸♠️

as someone that plays midrange decks at most I 100% agree with you Paul. there's no space for them to fit in the current game because the standard board that's consider "viable" needs to set up enough negates that unless your deck can steamroll through that your not getting anywhere.

An important point about the distinguishment between agro and midrange in most card games is that mid range decks are supposed to have the highest average "card quality". Rather than worrying about if a card is fast enough like agro might, if a particular cardbis very strong midrange will try to play it

Always luv these vids

i think mid ranged decks are usually resource decks where they have offense and defense that build over time. I play a resource deck and usually the consensus is that they tend to outlast control decks and break their defenses consistently through sheer resources, but are disadvantaged vs fast combo decks as they don't get to their game winning blows as fast and get rushed down.

I mostly play Rogue decks with cards that seemingly do not go together only to find odd combinations of boards and effects.

The way I see it is you can’t really categorize combo decks similarly to midrange, aggro, and control because Yugioh is very different from other card games such as combo has become almost a necessity in gameplay unless you play something like stun/troll where little to no comboing is necessary. In other games a combo is more often identified as a win condition that your deck is built around or a way to gain massive value, in Yugioh it has just become the norm. I’d consider aggro to be more like decks that have an extremely all-in combo that tries to setup full boards of big monsters with at least a full hands worth of negates and disruptions but also have little to no recovery against board breakers, Dinosaurs for example. Midrange I was definitely thinking Branded before Paul mentioned it, can make a somewhat diverse board based on the matchup, decent amount of disruptions but not too heavy on flat out negates, and the combo has a way of returning cards to hand for later turns, so while it can win immediately as with ANY deck in Yugioh it’s goal isn’t to blowout the opponent all the time. Then you have control, the stun/troll/burn/etc which just try to not necessarily negate but more lock your opponent out of playing through more floodgate-y effects, Floo is a good example even though it can win the following turn, it doesn’t have to, similarly is trap based decks like Altergeists, Eldlich, and recently Labrynth. That’s my two cents on it.

Paul been the GOAT since 2017. Change my mind

If every decks a combo deck, maybe another way to describe these decks would be from "high combo" to "low combo". I don't enjoy comboing on and on until my board is completed, I prefer a deck like Swordsoul where there's only a few steps you need to learn before finishing your combo.

How do you even define midrange for yugioh? For other games you are "curving out", usually playing 1 card a turn that generates immediate value or presents an immediate threat to be dealt with.

I think it’s should be more mid range support, to get players trying them cards out again .

We need more terms to apply to these decks too. I can take a stab but they could already be around and not widely known yet.

I don’t know. The TCG format is forcing me to play unfair. So I guess I like playing decks that are unfair to opponent. I’m too nice in real life. So why should I be in Yugioh? Also I do the same on master duel. Fossil dyna lock with super heavy’s lets go!

I'm not even sure if "control, aggro, midrange" are where I'd draw the distinctions. I'd draw the line as "linear to complex". Complex decks feel like engines that can facilitate multiple lines of play which usually ends up as high damage and destruction, but also might end up with negates as needed. Linear decks often dont have as many opportunities to switch up the plan of attack, but are good at creating a specific board state. Complex decks tend to run formats as they survive interruption better, stuff like virtual world where stopping them either means having the right hand trap at the right spot in the combo or multiple negates feels impossible depending on what deck you're running. Meanwhile, decks like Traptrix or Witchcrafters do the same thing every time in a few moves, but your opponent making Sera, putting down the field spell, setting 4 and passing feels just as menacing in a few seconds. Yeah, feather duster or lighting storm might force a scoop immediately , but not knowing what the 4 are creates a lot of pressure and suspense to not start recklessly making plays.

Midrange don't exist in YGO, just destroy your opponent in 1 to 2 turns😭

to be honest, only knowing midrange as having a stable plan every turn or a way to loop resource, i thought most modern decks are midrange.

I hate it when people say Spright, Tearlaments or Snake Eyes are mid range decks. They are indeed not. All of those are full blown combo decks that all put up 7 interactions on their first turn. The problem is that because modern combo decks have a grindgame now, midrange decks have lost their reason to exist. Why do [Rank 4 + Salamangreat Roar+ Ash in Hand] when you can have [Baronne, Naturia Exterio, Rukhallos, Dragustapelia protected by Spright Elf with Sulliek Set Havnis in Hand and Shufflers in GY]. Both decks have insane follow up, but one of them also basicly FTKs you. Melffy Spright ends on 7-8 interactions as well looping Toad for resources etc. while having infinite follow up with Elf. Snake Eyes ends on 7 interactions and has an infinite grind game thanks to Flamberge and the Sinful spoils loop. Comho decks lost their downside therefore midrange decks have no place anymore. What was the very first combodeck that broke the line? Answer is easy: It's Dragonlink. Before DLink we have had decks like Spyral or Gouki which both went through their entire ED on turn 1. On turn 2 you either kill them or most likely lose. Dragon Link was the first real combo ddck that could rebuild their board over and over to so e extend. From then on this trend kept going with the Block Dragon Combo deck,then Bird Up, then the Adventure halq Piles then the POTE decks. The trend btw gets even worse because Konami thinks it's a good idea to give every deck a Poplar/Circular type of card. Now even rogue decks like Lightsworn and Galaxy Eyes will be combodecks with Grindgame 😂

Like the video, but flunders isnt control. Its flat out stun Edit: also branded turns arent long. Takes like a minute and at the end they usually have, mirror jade, set branded in red, activated branded lost and have quem on field

decks nowaday can regain resouces fast and otk u in t3 while stopping u with HT or negate, so if ur deck cant play under HT or negate ur screw going second, fireking se is a good example, abusing what IP could do in your turn while playing the HT game with +2 draw from heatsoul

We need decks of all levels to have a place, otherwise newcomer ls will never come. Plus, we have so many cards in this game, why not utilize as many archetypes and variety as possible?

Everything is just a combo deck. The wincons are just different but everything does combo.

I feel like the past couple formats were absolutely dominated by midrange decks, the past couple best decks were kashtira (usually ariseheart pass), unchained (ended on like 2 guys and a trap and played pretty low to the ground), rescue ace (which leaned a bit more control), and fire king snake eyes (which is pkinda more along the lines of combo, but the snake eyes portion feels a good bit more midrange)

Problem is any deck can just otk you now. Only difference between midrange and meta is resiliency to disruption.

Not having mid-range decks isn't elusive to Yugioh. It happens whever the turn count shrinks in any TCG. For example, MTg's Vintage format (which is typically the fastest) is essentially Grass, Stun and [insert combo here] decks. Conversely, draft decks are almost all mid-range decks. A game of Vintage is more about resolving a critical card than gaining incremental value since resolving that card essentially ends the game.

Do you count Traptrix as midrange, after their structure deck support? They play more aggressively now but still short linear combos.

I'm not generally versed competitive yugioh so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I've watched a fair bit of retro yugioh on cimooo's channel and seen a few vids on mtg. I feel like yugioh especially these days basically can't have anything like a mid-range deck from mtg, it was possible in early yugioh when special summons were limited so bouncing back a normal summon mattered, especially if it was a tribute summon. But these days there's no such thing as tempo, if card games were songs yugioh would be rush E with no build up at 3x speed

It feels like rogue/mid ranged decks are at a loss. Most "meta" decks are all those descriptions, being aggro combo stun and control. What usually separates them is the whats in main deck and extra deck cards without the staples. S-force is a perfect control. Not focused on big bosses but interactions. Combos are like mannadium, without the generic extra deck, using small monsters and spells to go into a boss for the situation. Stun is just dont let your opponent do anything, floodgate decks. Numeron is a pure aggro deck. Use every card you have to attack everything your opponent has and win quickly.

I agree that everyone's goal in yugioh is to prevent their opponent from playing the game. The difference just comes from how you do it, I guess. To me, the scale goes aggro, combo, midrange, control, stun, where aggro decks try to do as much stuff as possible and win as quickly as possible and stun changes the way you play the game. Midrange has a good mix of opponent interaction and win cons, without being insta wins

A game without the option of midrange strategies is in a bad spot. Hopefully they can bring it back. But seems impossible when the game is make board break board

I have no idea where some of my deck builds would be termed since my decks are built to function like a counter attacker, a parry deck, decks that have a veritable toolbox of possible responses to almost any board they might face. Decks that treat yugioh like a boxing match or game of chess and decks that strive to the extreme to make their moves with as few individual actions per turn as possible so as to minimize time spent playing cards with myself and maximize time spent playing cards with and against my opponent. Many of my decks prefer going second so as to respond to a board rather than build one themselves. Instead of aggro, I am more calculated and defensive, looking to poke exploitable holes in my opponents boards and use them to gain victory and also I like surprises and tactics that would make my opponent question reality due to the sheer madness of my card choices. Sometimes my chaotic choices cause me to lose but they also sometimes let me win in the most hilariously dumb ways. I dislike combo decks that linger on single turns by going on and on and on with action after action while I sit and wait for what feels like an eternity in purgatory. Waiting through long combos is a worse feeling for me than having to face a floodgate board full of negates. If your board is gonna have all the negates and whatnot, I prefer you get there in as few actions as possible so our precious lifespans are respected. Time wasted is time lost. A control deck to me is one that strives to manipulate the field and what can or cannot be done. Prime example of a control deck would be classic time lords who like to say "no" to various entities that would populate the board. Another example of a control tactic would be the activation of ojama trio after activating ground collapse; a 2 card combo that effectively "seals" all 5 main monster zones on your opponent's field and preventing them from summoning as a result. I think another category one could consider is the rogue deck that focuses on literally manipulating your opponent's choices and mind by making them perform predictable actions. Decks That put cards in the opponents hand that they cannot resist using that you can cause to backfire on them should they use the cards given to them. Like setting up a bunch of back row including waking the dragon and using a spell or effect to give the opponent a harpie feather duster. Mind games are fun

Combo and Control are not opposites. There are two axis to define a deck Aggro vs Control - This is defined by the ratio of threats vs answer. A pure aggro deck has no answers, but every card pushes the decks wincon. Pure control actually cannot really exist. Pure control would have no wincon but just a pile of staple answers. Combo vs Good Stuff - This axis is defined by how many of the cards are in your deck because they are "good cards" and how many are in your deck because they have synergy with other cards. For example Ash Blossom is a "Good card". While Fire King island isn't in your deck because its good. Fire King island is in your deck because it combos with fire king cards. Its very much relative. But a GOAT deck is likely to be far more of a good stuff pile compared to a modern archetype.

Honestly, I never liked calling a deck "control" "midrange" "aggro" in modern yugioh. They are just terms that don't mean anything anymore because lots of decks do a little bit of everything. I prefer to call a deck by what archetype or engine they're playing. It tells me way more about the deck and what to expect versus just calling it "midrange".

As someone who only dabbles in YGO (mostly play other TCGs like MtG, Digimon, and the new Star Wars Unlimited [SWU]), I find it hard to define YGO decks in the Aggro/Control/Midrange archetypes. Since YGO is so fast-paced, I feel like most decks boil down into forcing your opponent to deal with a certain board or creating a hard-to interact board, making it real hard to pinpoint the archetypes of decks. To me, it's easier to pinpoint different archetypes of decks in various other TCGs because other TCGs rely on resources to play the game. Aggro decks in most other TCGs don't need a lot of resources to win and prevent other decks to get to thier preferred resource amount before losing (MtG RDW, Digimon Rookie Rush, etc). Control likes a lot of resources to control the board and can end games using the vast amount of resources to pay for a game-ending card (MtG UW Control, SWU Control Iden, etc). Midrange sits in the middle, and wins games by using slow and steady pressure while utilizing 1-for-1 cards to thier max (e.g MtG Jund Midrange, Digimon Rosemon).

Mid range decks can be viable by going into Baronne like any other deck

Arguably yugioh's 3 deck types used to be beat down, synchro, and stun

I am the Midrange... Ursarctic.