I think I've successfully quit consumerism couple of years ago, after I found myself pathologically waist-deep in it. I quit my career (which I hated) and haven't looked back.
+Arthur78 Amen brother. I did the same thing 4 years ago. Best decision ever. Now I do more of what I enjoy. I looked at the Black Friday ads last year and there was nothing I wanted. Everything looked like junk to me, junk that happened to be on sale. It doesn't matter how low the prices are for junk, it's still junk so I'm not buying it; simply knowing I don't need or want it makes marketing have no effect on me.
I wondered that too. I assume this is 'stock footage'. I think it was noticeable because the Maple Leaf seemed out of place. Does the Diderot Effect include Walmart stuff (crap?).
Funny how you directly imagine crushing poverty as an opposition of buying always more. Making fun of those technically find a way to feel good even if they have less (willingly) is easier to actually consider if we could do it ourselves, isn't it?
Idk, I've seen this effect on ppl who are literal dumpster divers. It's like a person who owns nothing but trash; they collect more trash to add to their collection. They eventually find a dumpster that has nicer things in it, say an entire table. They take & use the table but start looking in similar dumpsters/areas for chairs even tho they don't necessarily need them or the table for that matter. So the currency in this scenario would be effort & time but the principal still applies.
+Iizashush "blame for craving" Buddhism teaches that suffering in our lives is caused, at least in part, by craving. Here's a short quote from this web page (www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm): *_The second truth is that suffering is caused by craving and aversion. We will suffer if we expect other people to conform to our expectation, if we want others to like us, if we do not get something we want,etc. In other words, getting what you want does not guarantee happiness. Rather than constantly struggling to get what you want, try to modify your wanting. Wanting deprives us of contentment and happiness._* No, I'm not a Buddhist but the philosophy I (try to) follow we study many religious philosophies to find what works in our lives. So my way is to ask the universe for what I want, make a plan to get it, but not be attached to getting it. Then, above all, be grateful for what I have. *_Be excellent to each other_* -- *Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure*
I just wrote my thesis on modern consumerism and one fascinating thing I found during my research is that there is one thing that keep us consuming is the difference between our fantasy and reality. People actively consume to gain certain identity; like you mentioned we identify ourselves with our clothes, etc. People have ideas running around their head every day of how life would be better if they own certain things, which lead us into buying / consuming -even if we don't necessarily need them (as in the bottom part of Maslow's hierarchy of needs). And even if they things we buy are satisfactory there still will be the slight difference to our imagination.
this was really interesting. I have a B.A. in sociology/anthropology and your discussion here reminded me of the anthropological term "material culture." this term refers to the relationship between people and their things in terms of how those things are made and preserved as well how the owner interprets their things. this concept has a macro and micro component as material culture can refer to society on the whole or the individuals within that society
8 лет назад
I'm used to always wear black, which I got used to while working on films... But each time I see another interesting palette of colours on a series or movie, I crave for these appealing "characters"; I wonder about the reasons behind the careful selection of clothing, and even items in their house - I can't help but see the colours as an extention of their true self. I wonder what could represent me. I wonder why I'm not as well defined as I would've thought. I wonder if the colours I've blidnly chosen for my house is representative of myself. Colour, for me, is an important factor in a creative workspace, but I'm a practical person. Frivolous expenses is not a thing I regularly indulge in... But just last week, I bought the 2 most expensive glasses I've ever bought, just because the faded colours and interesting and a bit extravagant look. Even if deep inside, I really like them, I'm too conscious about the whole reasoning behind it, that it makes me uncomfortable to even wear them in public too often; like if I was trying to rejoice in a pre-fabricated, pre-packed, and pre-approved piece of personality.
"A soft yes". We are not to blame for society having its effects on us. We are to blame for letting it continue to do so, with, or without, or knowledge.
I have never had this happen to me. I really don't understand. This might have something to do with my lack of buying power. When I look at my house, I don't see coherent scenes. It's a mosh of odd out of place things that I could afford to buy. A couch that I found cheap, a nice painting that was given to me, a TV that I saved money for awhile to be able to afford. It has a mixing pot like appeal. It, like a person, comes together with different things to form a single thing. Maybe I have never fallen into this "consumer" life that this video addresses. Fight Club does it very well too.
+gabeslist I'm poor, too, and I've still kind of fallen into that life. I still have the urge to buy all the things, I just can't. It always comes up when I reserch something I do have to buy - a desk, shampoo, etc. Then my mind goes crazy for a few hours, until I do a reality check - do I *really* need this? Then I go overboard with *that* and don't buy things I actually need, like that desk (my bed is my desk) or food.
That still seems to follow the Diderot effect (as explained in this video, I haven't looked into it yet). The theme of your stuff might be "variety", or something along those lines. If you get something which doesn't fit in with the rest, that still follows the previous theme, so it doesn't invoke the diderot effect.
gabeslist dude. same here. and I just feel if I would do it the other way around, I would just make my visitors comfortable, instead of my own comfort.
I only ever experienced this effect when cleaning my house. I clean the shit out of one thing and all of a sudden I find myself trapped in another OCD-weekend. But in terms of consumption I don't get it at all...
Something that helps me to prevent giving into so much, is putting things in my shopping cart online, and then leaving it there for several weeks. I soon find that when I go back to my shopping cart, I don't really need or care for the items I momentarily felt, I really needed.
If the Diderot effect is attaching one's sense of self to possessions, then the act of minimalism defies this in detaching from material posessions and thus coming to a deeper realisation of who we are..
THIS RESPONSE shows that you understand the real "problem". "Clothes make the man," fails to acknowledge that nudism, also, "makes the man." It is, all, self-advertising.
You just reiterated the pinnacle of Catholicism..living IN the world, but not OF the world. Basically all saints spoke of this. It is how we reach true happiness.
Nerdwriter strikes again ... I always wondered why buying one product makes me less satisfied with the ones I already had before and here I am looking through your old videos and randomly clicking on this one. As soon as I heard your introductory words I immediately went: 'Yeah I know that feeling ...' but I had never really thought that there was a deeper meaning to it or that it even was a scientific effect. This is why I love this channel so much; You learn a lot about stuff that you didn't even know you wanted to learn about.
I only ever experienced this effect when cleaning my house. I clean the shit out of one thing and all of a sudden I find myself trapped in another OCD-weekend. But in terms of consumption I don't get it at all...
Oh goodness, you're back. Equal parts informative and entrancing. These vlogs of yours are a real strength, and for some reason, incredibly easy to get sucked into. I seriously hope you continue, your vlogs are some of my favourite on youtube.
consumerism was always ugly to me and yet i would spend days and weeks daydreaming about objects that i felt would augment my life and image to that where i wanted to be. It has taken me 3 decades to realise the only change you can make to your life that will improve your situation is an internal one as things you want and only things you want until you have them. then the harsh reality that that item did not bring upon you the sudden awakening into a new life you presumed it would. THe key is to pick a skill or hobby and buy only towards that and only as a treat for upholding a system of self restraint. at least then what you spend on is what you will be using and if that thing doesnt improve your pursuit of your interest or performance at your interest then return it to the store. keep the money until your next directed impulse shop.
I can not relate to this affliction; when I find myself considering an item my emotions pulled me to, what next goes through my mind is "I love this but... will need to trade 'X' amount of money, which took me 'X' time to make; I'll need to care for it, store it, protect it, etc." and I usually leave a store without purchasing anything. My wife is the same. It's not as though we short on money, it because it feels like clutter. Its very difficult to buy consumer items
For most of my life, my possessions consisted entirely of second-hand books I loved - hence, practical immunity to the Diderot Effect. Then I got this MacBook Air, pretty much the Platonic ideal of a laptop computer - but very much vulnerable to keeping-up-with-the-Joneses! But it lets me watch these fantastic mental explorations of yours, so that's a pretty good trade-off.
Ha! Thanks. There are many bad and good things about consumerism, and they're tangled in ways which are hard to differentiate. A computer is a both a product and a tool. Without it you wouldn't be able to watch these videos, and I wouldn't be able to make them!
I know the rule - "Don't feed the troll" - and I promise, I'll stop. But this is damn amusing! I use a thesaurus for "Platonic," says the troll spouting Latin! Hee.
*If you don't control your Ego - it will control You.* The "Ego-Mind" is tamed with the "Conscious Application of Thought" for a Matured Mind and accompanying goal subject + a Standard of Ethics. It is an aspect that is observable in us and others and telling of our emotional maturity or adolescence.
It's pretty easy to get over this when you have no money to spend and categorically refuse to get credit....also my house is full of random crap I need to get rid of.
You have literally just opened my eyes!! X.X I am a very girlish girl. I wear makeup even when I don’t go out and I have not worn any other kind of trousers other than very skinny skinny jeans for almost the past decade. Now, when I went shopping two weeks ago I could not find highwaisted skinny jeans in my size so on a spur I decided to purchase a pair of loosely fitted highwaisted jeans.. like they wore in the 70s and 80s. Since then, I have not wanted to wear any other pair of jeans and been obsessed with that eras rock music and tomboy clothes. I chopped my long hair into a pixie yesterday. I have stopped wearing makeup most days. I swear, only this morning I was planning out how I would sort through my wardrobe and throw most of it out because the style didn’t fit the new pair of jeans at all. I had not connected all of this until now. We are all such nutcases.. :O And I am so happy I clicked on your video.
Meh, if it still works, don't replace it. Everything I own right now is broken, and I mean everything, but it still works. My bag broke and fell to the ground which in turn put a large dent in my computer which was in the bag. The charger to my computer is broken and held together with aluminium foil and electrical tape. My headphones broke and are also held together by tape. Last week was my birthday and I got a battery for my phone, which has a broken on/off button, cracked screen and next to no battery (hence the new battery). The next day I dropped the new battery, it fell only a foot or so but broke so now it is also held together by electrical tape. And if you're wondering, yes, the charger to my phone is also broken. Maybe I just have a broken soul and I subconsiously break everythink so they match me, or maybe I'm clumsy and everything around me is fragile, but I'm not buying into this whole "gotta get new stuff" culture :)
I often find you someone who has opinions I disagree with that I'll notice are subtly there and who is probably too dry for my taste - but I'm watching all of your videos one at a time because many of them make me feel like I'm actually learning something completely new, which is not a feeling I have felt often in years, maybe even a decade. Keep doing what you're doing man.
That explains it! I was thinking about new curtains. Then I realized that I would also need a new rug & couch. So I saved up & got them all at once, making sure that the new furnishings were a good fit with the stuff I was keeping. I think it's all about foresight, choosing things that fit, and being able to recognize when you have enough.
So this was awesome. I never realized there was a term for this phenomenon - of changing or upgrading one thing and perceiving a false panic to upgrade everything else to align with this “black swan” new entity. - This is totally prevalent in cosmetic surgery - I wonder if theres a term to measure the restraint of dipping into the Diderot Effect when you execute one change and are aware you could have a whole new body and face if u keep going. - Maybe it’s called “Lemme just hold the F back before I cease to look carbon-based.” Please quote me on that ;)
Well, there is a similar adage in China about a once modest king made a nice pair of gold chopsticks and then gradually became obsessed and go on to build more luxury stuff like palace that eventually led to a revolt and killed himself.
lol. i watched this at a very appropriate time. i bought a new pair of shoes to replace the former pair that my dog recently ingested, and sequentially bought a mess of new clothes due to this effect that you have described. nice to put a name to it.
Sounds a lot like the thing that happens when you're an artist and you produce something that's quite a bit better than your other stuff and you start wanting to purge all the old stuff and make more that resembles your recent work
Fascinating. I recently came into some money & am definitely falling into the Diderot effect. Some of the objects I have purchased are things I actually needed but many are ones that I just considered a "little gift" to myself. Goddamnit, I hate you so much.
LOL going through this rn. Got an amazing new apartment after living in some questionable places, and don't want to get crappy cheap furniture to put inside of it... so I have no furniture. For like 3 months.
Buy nice items from craigslist, ebay, and thift shops. I have friends that are multimillionaires that furnish their homes with high-end pieces from from secondhand sites and auctions. These people can afford buy retail but for at least half their items they choose not to waist their money.
as ive been improving so quickly as a musician, ive noticed a sort of creative diderot effect. im working on an album and as i near the announced release date, i notice how much better the tracks made last week are than the ones i made at the begining of the project. im now faced with the decision to either replace the first half of the album with new material thats up to par with my most recent work, or just trying to tweak the older pieces so i can actually release on the date i already announced. moral of the story is dont announce a release date for a project until the project is actually finished
Looked this up because of the book 2 of The Brothers Karamazov. I'm thankful i did because, WOW this is so true and wise. I bought one book after reading the PDF of it and NEEDING it in my hands. Thus birthed my small library that i just can't stop buying more books for. I mean I'm broke so, i do research on what isn't out there for free online that i wouldn't care to buy but still want to read comparing with that which i know i would keep for the rest of my life or a least many years - mulling over time and time again with the materials. So, it's reasonable but just wild to me that just the feel of ONE book in my hands dominoed before i even realized into a craving for more. And now PDFs are so hard to use over them that i tend to print the PDF's i need for my self-studies out at work. So interesting! Also i wont lie i did end up redecorating after buying the book but only to help me focus studies wise. More organized vibes.
to change and reinvent your surroundings and belongings, because of a materialistic cause can also be a creative drive and inspiration. Believing that things can match your personality, would be less of a problem if people made their own clothes,furniture, art, etc.
Holy Shit! This is amazingly enlightening. Not only have I never heard of this effect but I have never experience this on any level I can identify. This is like discovering everyone else in the world has a fetish that you've never even heard of. I feel like an alien anthropologist. Part of this might be that I grew up with nomadic Hippy parents and became an artist. My studio has NO cohesion in the first place. My youth didn't ever revolve around any kind of stability. I have bought plenty of nice art tools to do specific things but I cannot think of any time when they have reflected on anything else I use to do my work. One thing is for sure, I can't imagine ever discarding a tool just because a new, unrelated tool is nicer. Perhaps this effect doesn't include utilitarians?
I don't usually comment, but I can honestly say that your videos really are excellent - thoughtful and inspiring. The best compliment is that I am now going to read some Diderot! Keep up the good work
But what makes you think it's only the people in a capitalist society that aim for this unity? Even a buddhist monk shaves his head regularly and wears only a certain kind of robe, for instance. The key issue here is most people don't take the time out to discover themselves and figure out what it is they really want, and what it is they really need, and then strike a balance between the two.
What are the practical psychological effects of consumerism, and if it were to be destroyed, what would replace it? Is entrepreneurialism negative? Basically I'm asking you to do a video on self-actualization within the context of capitalism.
this video reminded me of the time several years ago when I bought a stainless-steel artistic representation of a saguaro cactus. We ended up buying property in Arizona where we will be moving from our home in the Pacific Northwest in four months. This is like taking the Diderot Effect to extreme.
Ive been trying to change my way of living into a more sustainable one, but have to fight with this too, and I feel kindda stupid! Every time I think about having a eco friendly shampoo I find out that I have to replace my soap too, and conditioner, etc. And when I try not to buy stuff from large stores or brands which promote inequality etc, I find out that I have other products or stuff from that same brand or place, wich I no longer want to support. Since Ive just started, I feel guilty and its been driving me a little bit crazy!!! But watching your video helped me on my attempt to handle the fact that I have to to do it gradually. Ive already made my decision, so it is ok if I still own that stuff. Plus, I have to attach to my budget so I cant do a radical change, it wouldnt be responsable either. So Im glad you shared this, it really served me! Thank you very much! Ill keep on watching your videos! (I started with the one on Kintsugi, and had to go on and on LOL) All my suppot from Montevideo, Uruguay (and sorry for my english, it´s a long time since I dont practice it!
I came to this video after watching your Meninas and Socrates videos. I want to comment that Diderot was (among so many other things) an instrumental figure in art criticism, and how to describe a painting to people who had no access to that painting.
If you buy quality over quantity, it keeps one from consuming because quality items usually -- but not always -- cost more but will last many times over the lesser quality items. This keeps me from buying stuff I don't need. The items that I do own, I've had for a long time and could even pass to my eventual children and potential grandchildren. It's an old fashion way of viewing the world but it works for me. Plus, by buying quality over quantity, I hope that I leave a smaller footprint on the planet.
Man, I dont even know your name yet, but I have fallen in love with your chanel. I mean... The subjects are very interesting and your aproach is simples, but yet, brings up very deep aspects of the theme. Congratulations! I am looking forward to explore your videos and see what messages you have for us. Thank you.
This is only the second video of you that I've seen. And I love your style and the way you explain and articulate. You are kind of like an uncensored Vsause
Interesting, this vlog. Very much an extension of familiar intellectual, reflective written blogs, but with animation. Much more congenial for the internet.
this was good. thanks for posting the video. you might be interested in the paradox of the individual, the idea that our individuality - our identity - can only be realised through a collective. the possessions purchased to maintain identity created by the robe for example was it for creating his own perception of a consistent identity or for creating in others a perception of a consistent identify. we will never know. just saying.
I bought a shelf at ikea once for only 25 dollars which is pretty darn good considering all the things that I could have bought for 25 dollars but wouldn't have had anywhere to put them.
This is so good...I saw the Didero effect on Atomic habits and your explanations was really the best...now I feel like IAM observing the Diderot effect everywhere in my house...Dumbells, powerblcosks, Kettlebells,.holy shit ❤️👍🏾💪🏾✊🏾✌🏾🤣🤣
can this happen on the level of a family? and not just an individual. i ask because when my brother got a mac within a year my mum and dad both had macs and they all got iphones and now i have a mac and an iphone and my brother and dad got ipads and now i want an ipad and my mum wants an i pad and i just want my room to turn into some apple tech cave!!
i just wish i could have read your reply on a shinny new Ipad ;) aha (btw can you check your inbox? about a week ago i PM'd you asking for advice on a film project im doing - hope im not being too cheeky, would just really appreciate some advice cos i have little to no idea what im doing)
Well all things considered, I definitely think you need a nightstand for that lamp and pillowcases that match your comforter. ; ) And an excellent commentary on "keeping up with the Joneses." I had no idea it was such a scientific concept. This was fascinating.
I feel this all the time with music and books. I read one great book or listen to this one great song and then suddenly, I want to replace everything I have with books and songs similar to those. This is super interesting and I never knew about it. I love your channel and I always learn something new when I watch your videos :D
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this was related to the same areas of the brain (dopaminergic pathways) that are involved in reward response & addiction. Also check out the Gruen Effect (& related topics) to see how cynically we are manipulated by those designing retail space or marketing products. Going into a shop for only a carton of milk & coming out with a trolley full of random items isn't a fluke - it's a design feature.
Just read an essay about the Diderot effect this morning an boom, this shows up as an suggestion. I actually considered buying a robe du chambre after reading about it! But are you saying that by accepting that we are not one identity but a number of personas, we can overcome this craving for coherent consume? I'd like to think so.
So I started watching with a smug, critical attitude - finger pointing at 'first world problems'; because I am a minimalist. Then I realized that my own anti-consumerist attitude is a projection of my own identity - so I have therefore identified myself by what I buy/do not buy; just a variation of identity-base consumerism (anti-consumerism).
On the flip side, I feel that this happens also with minimalism, in my experience at least. If I get rid of one object that I don't really need, the more I really can't stand owning another similarly less-than-necessary product. Not that I don't own useless things, I certainly do, but if I set the bar by getting rid of one object, many other objects suddenly become almost unbearable to own. It's weird. To me it sounds like the same effect, just happening in a different direction or way. But really, to me, it seems like it comes down to identity, and wanting your possessions and surroundings to reflect that identity. If anyone reading this has ever gone through for example their closet, and de-cluttered their least desirable/useful clothes, I wonder if you had the same experience as I get: the satisfied feeling you get is exactly the same that you get from buying new clothes. To me the feelings are indistinguishable. This is surely a more productive and sustainable way to express ones identity though material objects, but it seems so similar to me; the way in which the lack of objects matters to a minimalist, is the same way that the possession of objects matter to someone else. Does any body else feel this way, or am I perhaps missing the mark a little? I find this really interesting, it would be lovely to hear other perspectives.
I seem to be immune to the Diderot Effect. I use something till it serves no purpose (i.e. the fan is broken, but makes a great door stop) to be replaced with a cost effective replacement without thought for aesthetics till, it too, serves no purpose.
I like consumerism and the materialistic society we live in, it is condemned by the intellectuals time after time seen as money wasting and childish but I like things that look nice, everyone likes things that look nice, don't lie to me and say you've completely given up on the consumerist lifestyle because clearly you haven't if you're replying to this comment from a device with an internet connection; I see the things I have, the things that I think look nice are an expression of visions, not of who we are but of how wish to see the world around us, whether you like rustic vintage furnishings or pink beds with mountains of fluffy pillows or sofas carefully embroidered with neutral coloured flowers, in one way or another that is how you see the world, harsh and worn down, or a soft pastel fantasyland or unassuming with hidden art. Consumerism and the things we buy are a reflection of how we want the world to look, sounds far fetched, I'm sure, but remember it's just a perspective for you to consider.
it's a problem that exists in a capitalistic society, that consumerism is always associated with beauty and things that appeal to our aesthetic nature. in a system where pretty things can only be owned by those who have money, yes, of course. but you may want to look outside: see what lukacs say on aesthetics, and debord on the "spectacle," or even marx's alienation; because beautiful things exist out of what you thought as "consumerism." consumerism is, however, not always about that drive to buy things and possess material stuff; it is actually about the overwhelming act of consuming, that one barely produces anymore. he, as a human, does not produce but kept consuming, consuming, consuming. and this habit, this culture, is deep-rooted in the capitalistic society. imagine someone who dreams and longs for a beautiful marble palace. that drive, that longing was so great that he built all of it by himself: he gathered the marble, designed the things, decorated the gardens. then compare it to someone who has that same drive, but paid people to build the palace for him instead. that's basically the difference--in a capitalistic society, it's all more complex, of course, and is related with power relations and the distributions of capital. :)
anyway, i like pretty things to, but... to grow your own flowers, cut them, and arrange them yourself--you are already several steps ahead from the more consumerist person who bought the vase full of flowers that someone has already grown and arranged for him. that's all though. hehe
In any case, to a great extent we all choose 'how' we see the world. The way in which you describe some things as "harsh and worn down" is more representative of how you view them than it is the things you describe. There is just as much beauty to be found in a rotting tree as there is a blooming one. It all depends on how you look at them.
The Diderot Effect ... Why do we want things we don't need? That's a good question and the story of Diderot a LÉGENDE, a romantic novel with a moral undertone (great thinkers either have to prostitute or sacrifice themselves). This idea leads to another 'good' question: Why do we tell stories with a moral undertone, as if we have to prove that we first prostituted or sacrificed ourselves? If that would be true, we were still inventing the fire, because if it doesn't work out in your life, you've made a mistake or didn't see the invisible walls. That's something that intrigues me, we can't enjoy THE SUCCESS of others anymore, always thinking that they got more luck in their lives than you. I've had my share of jealous, debunking actions, and made my own quote to cope with it: YOU DON'T WANT TO BE ME, BUT ME TO BE YOU, because maybe I solved the problem of other persons, but not mine, that came because of the complete lack of loyalty and affection. This is such a weird time, suddenly we see the whole world and can share our most superficial memories or deepest thoughts. I usually read denigrating comments, when something interesting is posted, why, because what's the use of debunking the person who worked on his statement, that maybe wasn't your problem, but his concern? Diderot was probably not a great thinker at all, but he found a way to be supported by influential ladies, since he was not really a concerned father or beloved husband, with all those mistresses and egoistic pleasures ...
Oh my gosh! I am this way with books. I bought Swann's Way the penguin classics edition. And then I had to buy the rest of the series Penguin Classics then I bought Madame Bovary Penguin classics and it became like a go to, to just get the Penguin version even tho there are lots of other versions. I don't even know if penguin produces better translations I just like the aesthetic of the books being penguin.
i almost grabbed one of my new shirts, but i didnt because i was overwearing them and want to save them. i think the trick of life is to savor everything. youre not going to experience everything, but if you get the most out of each of your experiences, your time was not wasted
Argghhhhh bless you! This is going to help me with my essay! Thank you thank you thank you! (I watched your Kintsugi video which is ALSO going to help!)
