The Difference Between Younger Cubers & Older Cubers 

‎”I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” Bruce Lee

I started cubing at the age of 40 and I can totally relate to your point of the brain being overwhelmed.

Me: today: I'm gonna learn a new cmll tomorrow. tomorrow: I'm gonna learn a new cmll tomorrow...

I started cubing at 37, cause my 8 year old son got into it. His hand speed is so much faster than mine, and he picks things up so fast in comparison to me. I have faster PB's in 2x2, 3x3, and 4x4, but he has better averages. These PB's aren't going to hold up long... lol

Thanks for the analysis. I agree with most of what you think, although it does feel like a lot of the evidence you use is anecdotal. (Sorry, blame my science research background.) I’d love to collect more data on this, on a larger sample size. For the record I got into cubing at 33, and I have thought about this topic quite a bit. I am so much more systematic about my learning than what I’ve observed in younger cubers, but yeah I don’t know if I have the same dexterity or speed as they do, and definitely not the same about of practice time. I average about 15s on the 3x3, but again there’s no way of saying if that’s actually fast or slow because it’s all relative.

I’m a REALLY old “cuber” and am just using it to keep my mind and memory sharp. I appreciate you making this vid! After a bit of rummaging, I decided to focus on learning OLL as a good memory exercise. I’m a few months in and have only learned about half of it and with my arthritic meathook hands, am only getting to around 1:30 (1:00 if I’m lucky) precisely because my turning speed is progressing only slowly and my recognition is horrible and not really going anywhere. I’ll begin incorporating the latter especially more. One trick I’ve used to wade through learning OLL is to realize that every OLL alg preserves F2L, so if I come to an OLL I haven’t yet learned, I just apply any OLL I do know (tho typically F-sexy-F’, or same with f) until I find a pattern I do know. It at least keeps me “moving”. I also still rely on two-look PLL because I only need to know U, A, E, H and Z perms for now to finish the solve. The rest of PLL looks horrifying. I actually have low expectations for ultimately getting very fast, but I enjoy stuffing algs into my brain and watching your channel.

Younger Cubers be like I am gonna practice 1 thing 100 times Older Cubers be like I am gonna practice 100 things 1 time

Jperm is giving philosophy lessons now xD

I love that you took inspiration from fighting games for this video! As a melee player mainly and a cuber on the side, it was interesting to see how you draw comparisons differently than I do. Also money match me 😏

As a 25 year old, my absolute favorite thing is that no matter what your approach is, the skill ceiling is so high. You're never finished getting better.

I'm actually kinda impressed by that guy at the end

The difference between young and old cubers: Age Edit: 500 likes in 1 day? Thanks

Its been 2 years since I left cubing and also watching your channel which was my favorite cubing channel and now seeing 220k subscribers...I feel very proud

I'm 50. I just learned to solve a 3 x 3 a month ago. I have the advantage of experience. I know that learning to be fast is going to take time.

Really interesting perspective - thanks! I'm 35 and averaging sub-19 after 2.5 years of cubing. I definitely find I'm on the 'studying' side of the fence. I've learned full OLL and PLL; I've got my F2Ls pretty efficient; I'm CN; I spend (too much) time analysing my own solves. I get really frustrated sometimes when I see your critiques and people are faster than me with less tools and more 'mistakes'. I'm definitely guilty of leaning on the "my TPS is limited" crutch, but I'm working on that after your last Patreon critique. Cheers!

TEDx Talks: Where is J perm???

I am so sick of seeing comments like "I'm x years old and average y is this good"

9:31 Although I'm 15 seconds faster than him, I really admire that red-blue F2L insert. I've never seen that insert but it's actually really useful. This shows that his solves are very efficient and he uses good solutions. Great job

When you said that once you have a hammer, everything is like a nail, I thought you meant that you would start to be reckless and hit everything with it

I am an older cuber but i am shy in front of the non cubers (they look me like what a heck dude playing with that toy) and shy in front of the speed cubers cuz my times hehe No matter the Age guys do anything you Love!!

I gave up when I was a kid. Started last year bc I didn't want my 7yo girl to give up too and it's been much more addictive than I expected. This channel has been a blessing, thank you so much.

Shit, It felt like he was talking directly to me at the end lol

I first solved the cube in 1981 at age 11. Learning the algorithms was all word-of-mouth from family members. The approach was what I would call "FLF2L...etc." I could average just over a minute, working FURIOUSLY to align and rotate first-layer corners, insert edges in the second layer, and doing the last layer corner permutations and edge flips, etc. I can still perform this but I decided to start learning CFOP this year (2021). Do the math- that's 51 years old. Yes, I'm slow at it. I think for anyone learning something "new" (or-relearning something "old" in a new way) it helps if it is what's called an "activating stimulus" i.e., you get hooked and have a hard time putting it down. So I get a lot of practice on beginning algs, develop some bad habits, then gradually recognize specific things that can be improved; which is where the study comes in. I am glad that the ceiling for achievement is so damn high; in the 40 years since the cube has been around, solving has been raised to an art form.

As a fighting game player just learning cubing, that smash/injustice metaphor was fascinating, especially since I did actually consciously make that choice of learning just a few tools and getting better at them passively through repitition... which is exactly how I tend to learn characters in fighting games; pick up some basics, throw myself in ranked, and once I feel like I've got a grasp on that, learn a little bit more. And then a little bit more. And so on

I started cubing at 22 maybe, I'm satisfied by the fact that I CAN solve it. So I use a method, what I call is a SUNE-most method. 1. Cross - intuitive 2. First layer - intuitive 3. Second layer - that one f2l case. 4. Cross - sune and fat-sune 5. Oll corners - sune at strategic position, followed by sune. 6. Pll edges - algorithm (idk the name) 7. Pll corners - sune, rotate, sune It's efficient because I don't have to memorize much. I can do sub-70, and it's enough

I'm 45, and recently picked up cubing. I had one in the early 80's, so it wasn't completely new to me, but I can pretty much echo what was said in this video. I've limited the amount of algorithms I try to pick up and am currently focused on recognition and turn speed. 2 look OLL is fast enough for now, since I spend entirely too much time on F2L to even worry about the rest at this time.

This is spot on. I'm 39, it took me just over a year and a half to get to a 22.5 seconds average, using pretty efficient F2L, full OLL/PLL. I'm usually around 2.5 TPS. I think from talking with other older cubers that it's often a deliberate choice. For me I found it rewarding to learn efficient solutions (full OLL took like three months but I feel like I have a super power now), and figured it would be more painful to see my times go up if I waited too long. I never deliberately worked on turning as fast as I could, because I reckoned my turn speed naturally increases over time. And I admire smooth steady solves more than choppy fast ones. My plan is to get to sub 20 using my current slow smooth turning, by working on cross execution, some F2L cases that I still have to think about, and AUF. Once I reach that milestone I'll start working on TPS practice. If anyone wants to see how an old cuber cubes, I've got plenty of solves on my channel, including embarrassing competition ones :-)

This basically sums up my cubing journey. As a kid I learned the beginner method and just did it over and over again until I eventually got bored. Took a long break during high school and college and got back in as an adult. Now I'm more obsessed with memorizing new cases and algs rather than just doing what's comfortable over and over

I'm 40 and just solved my first cube a week or two ago on a friends cube. Mine is in the mail now and I love watching your content.

I Love Winning - J perm 2019.

Hey man, can you make a video about all the useful apps, software websites and resources in general to learn, practice, stop times, get scrambles etc? Would really love to see this from my favorite CubeTuber. And should I start off by learning CFOP, or just use the beginner method?

This sounds very accurate. I was almost 14 when I started cubing and am now 21. I do a lot of studying and turn like a snail and I see young cubers solving crazy inefficient, but with 10 TPS for the algorithms.

I have started about 3 weeks ago at the age of 38 when my son asked me to solve a cube he got... I have started with beginners method, now learning CFOP with 2-LOOK... It is still quite hard for me, but my first goal is to go under 60 :)

Me: I’m gonna learn PLL Me later:I solved it with PLL while following through the video... that’s enough

Thank you for this video, very helpful, great advice! 👍

Looking forward to seeing you at the UBC Open & Downtown Van in the new year 😄

Me: *learns to solve a 2x2 (beginners method) * YEEEY!!!!!! me 2 months later: gets a sub3 2 times in a row..... PPFT eAsY!!!! (still using a beginners method)

Pretty much me. When I was trying to get sub10 on squan recently, I was all about doing just solves and not really learning anything new. After deciding to learn CSP, I was able to achieve sub 10. I guess it’s probably good just to do a little bit of both the approach of older cubers and younger cubers.

As a younger cuber, I can say that this is pretty accurate. There have been many times when I learned a algorithm and practiced it until I got faster and then moved on to another.

I'm 15, when I was little, I always use the beginner method to solve it, and it felt so impossible to get sub 1 minute, but this year I tried to learn F2L and got a personal best of 44 seconds! Not so fast, but still suprised by the improvement

I rewatched this last week and decided "screw it, I'm just going to turn fast and accept some pauses/mistakes". My average has dropped from high 16s, to sub-16 already! I don't know why I resisted for so long - but I think it's because 'slow down and look ahead' is such common advice.

I've been cubing since the 80s. I'm happy when I get a 30 second solve. I agree with much of what you say.

When I was 14 i didn't learned the G perms like you said i prefered to do two algorithms, but i stacked at sub20, i stopped until now, and actually i'm learning way more algorithms (all those ZBLL, miam ...) and now i prefer cube slowly but be happy because i use way less algorithms to solve a cube, and i'm satisfied. And i'm suposed that if i practice now ... Now i think i could not stuck anymore at sub 20.

So helpful! Thanks JPerm. As someone who has only started speedcubing after 36 YO I have felt a bunch of the things you were describing about older solvers - really helpful to have that hint about only practicing a few things at once. In the end, that's the way I was forced to learn F2L as it is the only way my brain could handle it. Super inefficient in half of the combinations that popped up, but at least I made progress on a little bit at a time. When trying to learn all the best F2L combo's from the start, but brain when into shutdown mode and my times went through the roof (1.5 minutes+) due to idle time where I was trying to recognize what I was looking at.

The guy who cubing at the end is an OLD MAN 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂

"It's very similar to Street Fighter." FGC about to strangle the life out of JPerm.

As an Older Cuber with ADHD, it's very different. I do both, practice and study because I use Cubing to keep both my brain and hands busy and healthy.

I can confirm. I started cubing at age ten, and I just used the first method I learned (beginner's F2L, two OLL algs, and two PLL algs) for years and years and years and plateaued at around twenty seconds. Now I'm learning CFOP F2L and 2-look OLL and PLL several years later and it's like rewiring my brain.

j perm: the adults tend to learn new stuff to make them faster me: oh so I'm half kid and half adult?

Awesome video I completely agree! I’m wondering where you would draw the line between older and younger? I feel like I am on the younger side (16years and been cubing for just under a year) and around the middle when it comes to the graph.

Funny I ended up on this video. As an older cuber, I just spent the day analyzing all the algorithms for all the adjacent pairs on the last layer for F2L. I even came up with my own alg for one of them and two shorcuts for two algs if a back slot is unused. I then copied your PDF, added my algs and the ones I found online and kept the ones I liked. I then only kept solutions for the 5 pairs and mirrors. The rest will be for another day. Cleaned it up and printed this nice guide for solving adjacent pairs on the last layer for F2L. By doing this, I noticed 3 of the pairs have almost identical solutions but you wouldn't be able to tell with the original alg. I rewrote them all to have a consistant notation for the main part of the alg. And boom, 3 algs are damn near identical. So I only need to remember 3 algs total for adjacent pairs, one of which is my own creation. Also, the ends are just insertions for most of them and don't need to be remembered including any U moves to align the insertion. So yeah, studying for older cubers is probably correct. But I'm also practicing non stop. I love cubing. I was stuck at 2m a few days ago. I'm now sub 90s consistently and got 67s once. F2L is starting to click. Gonna try to beat my record of 18s when I was a kid in the 80s.

I'm 52 and have been speedcubing since 2004, I could solve a cube before that but only used the beginner method. I've gradually improved since learning F2L, full OLL and PLL and trying different cubes. I normally get times in the low/mid 20's, sometimes sub 20. Being dyslexic I have a lot of inconsistencies and I can make a lot of mistakes when solving resulting in slower times, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying cubing as a hobby.

Me: I will start learn full oll and start learning 3 style tomorrow Tomorrow; Nah I’ll do it later

In my opinion, younger cubers sometimes think if they buy a gan 356x they'll be fast but if you already learned everything and have a lot of knowledge you will be much faster . Also , young cubers have time for practicing (some actually don't think about other things and I was one of them lol) but cubers who know when to cube and how to cube will have a good future and cubing won't take a lot of time I still can beat you in smash Bros

I'm 47 years old and learned to solve the 3x3 about one year ago. I don't wanna be fast, I just wanted to solve it. In my childhood in the 80s there was no youtube explaining that and I never had a cube, but my cousin did. Nobody was able to solve it and it was somehow a mystery for us. Then I stumbled upon some videos explaining that. And I learned all that basic stuff. Solve the white cross, I did F2L because I thought that can't be more complicated then solving corners and then edges - it can't be more complicated to insert them at once - and guess what.. it is! Afterwards I tried to figure out what would be easier about doing the corners first.. at least for me it isn't easier. The I learned one algo to solve the yellow cross, one to adjust the edges, one to adjust the corners and one rotate them if necessary. Yeah, it takes maybe 2-3 minutes, but at least I can solve it. And don't even know what sexy move or sledge hammer really do, because everybody explains it, but way too fast and without really saying what's the benefit of that - at least I didn't understand it. It felt for me rather than people bragging how fast they execute that ;p So yes, for a bloddy beginner execute your moves really slowly, that you can really see what's going on.. no offence.. your videos are great. But the fast cubers sometimes forget how hard it is to follow all the turns. I tried to show my brother in law how to solve the white cross and after 2 hours he still did not get it. You have to open your brain for that 3d vision. And bear with the people who not yet have that if you're doing basic how to's .. merry christmas!!

I learned to cube when I was 15 in 2012, using pogobat's beginner's tutorials, and I have used that method so much that I've sped up some of the moves, and cut a lot of them down, to the point that my pb is 23.23 seconds. Whenever I went to competitions, I never did amazingly, but people were surprised how fast I could do a method that is essentially still beginner's. This week I started to learn Roux, using your videos, and I'm a lot slower with that (I learned it on Thursday morning and got a 1:40 average of 5 that evening), but I found it a lot more elegant than beginner's. Since then I've mostly been practising Roux, whilst still doing the odd solve here and there with my old method, just to remind myself that I once took 3 minutes per beginner's solve, but now average around 30ish seconds, so I shouldn't give up on Roux, just because I'm slower there. I definitely feel like I got so much mastery of those few algorithms I learned on beginner's, that I can now spend time adding to what I know, rather than trying to gain more mastery.

So true! I'm a young cuber, and I practice for so long.

I got 4 notifications from youtube at the same second so i was confused what to choose But i decided to choose thos and watch it

I picked up a cube at the gift shop in the hospital I've been spending alot of my time in. My wife has cancer so I've been fairly stressed out and I always wanted to learn how to solve a Rubik's cube. I found some peace in learning and focusing on the cube and all the techniques/RU-vid videos. I just got a gan magnetic cube and I've set a goal of learning beginner cfop and getting under a minute. It's been very helpful for me to keep my anxiety controlled.

Even tho I'm 11 which is considered young, i can't relate to the part saying that 'younger cubers don't want to learn new algs as they are slow in them and it makes them feel bad'

Nice bro 39 here Every solve at full speed is a test .

thought the vid was gonna be "look at my gan 356xs my mum got me" lol

5:59 "if you have finite answers to infinite questions, you're not gonna move"

This is a really good observation, and I think it applies across the board. Kids are content to spend hours and hours sucking at something, while adults are a lot more judgemental of themselves.

This means I'm old inside when im young

I’m SOOO guilty of this. For a while, I just put off learning awkward shape and Knight move OLL. So ya

Also older cubers have full time job, career development and plus life, so less time to practice. I can only practice in subway on the way to work or back to home. I really enjoy learning from your video. You’re not just my favourite cubing RU-vidr but my the favourite RU-vidr!

I couldn't care less how old I am. I do this for fun. Sometimes I go for speed. Sometimes I work algorithms like finger ballet. Sometimes in the air without a cube in hand. If there are others cubing around me, the more the merrier. This is a hobby of love... for me. Love the videos!

I’ve never been so proud of a sub 30 solver.

Interesting. I've noticed the general age of cubers getting younger. At my first comp un November of 2017, the average age was maybe 14. At my most recent comp, which happened this weekend, I've noticed it's around 11 or 12.

This video feels encouraging to me as an older cuber. I’ve felt a lot of pressure to learn more tools, but I’ve constantly had to focus on learning one set of tools at a time since I don’t have a lot of time to practice.

Unbelievably insightful. I'm 41, cubing for about 4 months, and averaging 50 - 60 secs. I've learnt some advance cross tricks, some advanced f2l (solving in the back, algs for cases where the pairs are together on the top, minimising cube rotations), 2 look OLL and nearly finished full PLL (3 g perms to go). He's exactly on the money, my weakness is turn speed and recognition, especially for F2l. My 8 year old kid regularly beats me with beginners method and a bit of 2 look oll / pll, but I'm much more efficient. Amazing.

Who need video on jperm bro's cube collection ⏬

We are designed to learn more as children. Younger children have more REM sleep which is where all motor learning is actually processed

I'm a kind of person who doesn't have much access to video games so I grab a lot of knowledge about the game that not even the most experienced players know it.And when I end up with the game I play it very badly So, what I'm saying is that knowledge is very important but actually practicing them and gaining experience is also equally important. I think a good balance of both of them is very good

Yeah, the thing I'm working on is cfop o cases and it takes awhile to turn a new alg into muscle memory.

That dude literally turns like 10tps slower than me and I'm only 5 seconds faster.

Then theres me who's stuck in sub 20 and gets occasional sub 15 for few months now

I had kind of a funny experience in this spectrum. I used to be a very technical cuber, that knew a fair amount of stuff for my speed. But after a certain point where it felt like I knew most of what I needed to be world class, I literally stopped going out of my way to ever learn anything. I pretty much only learn a new CMLL/SB case/EOLR every few weeks when someone tags me and tells me to try it and that's it, and I've been doing that for years now. Cus I realized it didn't really matter much how much I knew past that point if I ever wanted to get a nice world ranking, look ahead and TPS were (and still are) holding me back tremendously, and that's what I've been working on for the past few years.

Any advice for older cubers on how to improve TPS and recognition? I know the answer is practice, but maybe give some practice tips or drills.

“I’ll beat you in smash 👀👀” Yeah you will

I’m 14 and my way of learning is something that I’ve changed a lot, I’m becoming more methodical about practicing and learning. I don’t think I quite fit the description of younger Cubers in this video. I am a cuber btw, somewhat of a new one.

I commented on a critique a while back asking why the guy could make so many mistakes that I've learned to avoid and still be faster. This explains it very well. I like to think that my comment made you film this video.

I've just begun cubing, I have the beginner version down, I'm learning how to do the faster f2l method right now, but Im still a beginner. 3 minute average lol. But these vids really help

Huh, I thought the difference between older cubers and younger cubers is that older cubers drink WAY more than younger cubers.

I started cubing on 31 December 2019 and my pb is 2 minutes

Ive pretty much been cubing all my life, since 10 (im 16) ive been learning cubes and trying different ones, at 10 i learned 2x2 ortega, beginner cfop and layer by layer pyraminx, along with some other cubes and puzzles like skewb and megaminx. Its cool to look back and see all what ive done throughout the years.

I’m 51 and picked up a cube again a few weeks ago after RU-vid randomly put a cube solving video in my feed. I had one of the original cubes as a kid (yeah I’m THAT old) and could solve it but then didn’t touch a cube for almost 40 years. I’d say right now my biggest problem is recognition, starring blankly at the cube with seconds going by and obviously this just needs lots more practice - I suspect that 40 years ago this came a lot more easily, although in my favour these days are better algorithms and faster cubes

Hey J Perm/ Dylan, your 2×2 main is the tiger cube, isn't it, coz' every Tiger and panda should get a home and love. Ah! How I wish this comment would get a home at the top of the comments section and a heart from J Perm

It was a chose between watching this and pewds vid no contest

I feel it's good to learn 2 or 3 algorithms to a point where I can execute them without looking it up, even if its slow Then I just do something else and pick up the cube when I'm bored and do those algorithms It works a treat if you don't have time

As a 52 Year Old ROUXber, you hit the nail on the head! Great explanation!

Last time I was this early Well idk I’ve never been this early

I started cubing when I was 12, I'm 14 now and my average is about 23 seconds

I really want to verse you in smash. Plus what games and controllers do you use? And characters

"Kids are good at avoiding N perms" LOL You are just reading my cubing life :)

I am 51 years old and I started 4 months ago with the world of speedcubing and I totally agree with your points of view. I try to study the algorithms every day and I try to practice a reasonable amount of time. I also think you forgot to mention the time that adults have vs. young people, we normally work between 8-9 hours a day, we dedicate ourselves to household and family tasks that perhaps young people do not consider and have more time to spend. practice. A hug.

Young cubers: wil learn cfop method Old cubers: still learn cfop

I guess I have experience of both ends of the spectrum. Sorry for the long post, but there's some history that explains how I got to where I am and my current strategies at the end, with a couple of questions. I got my first cube in 1979 or 1980 when I was 17 years old, and taught myself to solve it, using a notepad, a pencil and a few weeks of investigation. Back then there were no speed cubes, and no internet, so everybody was working it out for themselves, and a good solve time for most people was around two minutes. I guess I gave up cubing when I was given a "Rubik's Revenge" (the first 4x4x4) a few years later and didn't have the time to figure out how to solve it (plus it was a horrible puzzle: slow, creaky and a real PITA to play with). Fast forward to last year, when I found the GoCube on Kickstarter, and backed it just for fun (and for old time's sake). When it arrived I found it way too heavy and hard to use because of the washed-out pastel colours and the pillowed shape, but I did follow its tutorial mode and got my solve time down to around 100 seconds, which felt like a huge success. Then I wanted more, so I found your channel, and through that the SpeedCubeShop, and I now have a nice collection of 2x2x2, 3x3x3, 4x4x4, 5x5x5, PyraMorphix, Pyraminx, and Master Pyraminx, all of which I can solve, largely thanks to your very clear and pedagogical tutorials (yes I did use JPERM as a checkout code for all of these :-D). Anyway, to the matter in hand: my current strategies and some questions. As a 57-year old, I know my fingers are not as quick as they used to be, so my TPS is way too low, but I'm fairly happy with my 60 to 90 second solves of the 3x3x3. I use your "advanced F2L" methods, and am experimenting with "virtual pairs" there, too, but still F2L is taking the largest chunk of time. For the last layer I orient the cross, then orient the corners using four of your OLL algs: 25, 27, 26, 22, plus the inverse of 25 (for the 24 case), and [F (sexy*3) F'] for the 21 case. For the 23 case I use (25, U, 26). Your suggested 23 alg feels just too awkward to me, sorry (and if you can suggest another I'll definitely take a look). For PLL I permute the corners first using J-perm or N-perm, then the edges using your Ua-perm and its inverse, plus H-perm, and Z-perm. I find it much easier to do the corners first as it speeds recognition for me. What are the next steps for me? I'm hoping I can learn one-look OLL, but 57 is a big number, so what I would really like is to find a table showing the frequency of each case, so that I can learn the algs in a sensible order. Then after that, same deal for PLL. My long-term goal is to get to sub-30 times on the 3x3x3, and I do practice at least a couple of hours per day in total, so it feels doable. Thanks in advance for any tips you can give.

Jperm: Neither being young nor older are both inefficient approaches to cubing. Me: Then what's the efficient approach huh??!!!?!