The first thing we often hear on the hill is "get your arms forward". That may not be the necessary fix. The channel can be supported here www.paypal.com...
It’s interesting that the last skier that passed you while you were talking had his hands down by his hips and was all in the back seat. Thank you for this info.
Really enjoying your videos, Deb. Arms are like the warning lamps on a car dashboard, they reveal so much about what's going on with inappropriate tensions in the core, in the hips, misalignment of the skeletal frame relative to natural initiation of a turn, or to the cornering forces in a turn. I still see some instructors trying to force people to lock their arms into "It was THIS BIG!" fisherman's stance. One thing I tell instructors very early is never have a notion that there is _correct_ *position* for the hands/arms, as they should be dynamically assisting with balance, timing, and rotation, and they are also an amazing tool to analyse tensions and problems throughout the body. A driver might tape over a dashboard lamp to ignore it, but the instructor/coach is the mechanic, not the driver, they're supposed to fix the problems, not tape over them.
Point taken, I accept your thesis that keeping your hands forward is good but not sufficient on its own for proper balance. One thing I'd like to add, though, is that keeping your hands forward is also a good way to avoid tearing your ACL in a fall. I'm thinking of the study by Drs. Johnson et al. about "phantom foot" and ACL injuries. If I have time to realize I'm falling I always try to bring my hands forward instead of trying to "break" my fall with them.
I don’t think of my hands being “forward,” but I do think of them pointing “down” the fall line. Not for balance, but to make a mind-body connection with upper/lower separation.
You should really rethink about your point here. The same problem emerges if you put your hands and arms to be directed to the fall-line, but your torso, hips and shoulders. Separation must turn your torso, not your arms!!!
@@stevedoe1630 Sometimes one can see skiers swinging around their arms in order to let the arms face the fall-line, but their hips and shoulders are not facing the fall-line, they are rotating together with the skis. This looks strange and is not very useful at all.
I need to figure out how to applaud your videos! I learned balance and making sure my shins had strong contact with the front of my boots before I learned much about the hands, and I think that worked well for me. Once it is safe to travel out west I hope to book a day of skiing with you, Deb! I’m anxious to know what I could learn from you ⛷
Hi Meurcie, First off, the applaud button is only on laptops now as a new feature for some videos but not yet a feature on phones. Secondly, I teach in Steamboat. Maybe I will see you here one day.
Just found your channel and I just love your ski lessons and teaching philosophy and approach. Getting back to skiing after 20 years of inactivity downhill skiing. Guess I will start slowly but tryng with good approach. Green slopes for me and ready to ski good way , not necessarly fast.
Totally agree. "Hands forward" is a tool but the student has to understand why they're being told to put hands forward (i.e. to help centre of mass become centered). Thanks for confirming what I've been telling people in my ski group.
I donated! It would be nice to have the applause feature on cell phones but it worked from my laptop. You do need that new camera.. I like the statement that your arms can take you out of balance but they can’t bring you into balance. I’ll have to use that with clients
So true, your message! Reminds me of a 72 year old ski instructor / playboy in Val Thorens, France. He always said to his students "Don't shit, f*ck" while ostentatiously pushing his pelvis forward ;-) PS: In Belgium, Europe, we can't "applause " yet :-(
Back in the 1983 when I moved to Park City to ski bum, I crashed with 11 Australian ski bums for a week. One of them was a patroller from Falls Creek. His best ski tip was pretend you had your sweetheart up on the kitchen counter making sweet love. That was a concept I could grasp. Hips up & forward, pressure on the balls of your feet. One of the best ski tips ever. Today when I'm skiing my best, it feels like my feet are so far behind my hips I shouldn't be able to stand up.
The easiest way for me to get balanced is to press my big toes as hard as I can on the base of my boots. When I do this on the first run of the day it always works for me. I dont always do it once the tiredness sets in though.
Hi Deb, just a note regarding applause. The feature is currently only available in Australia, Brazil, India, Japan, Korea, Mexico, New Zealand, and the United States. It’s also only available via the desktop site. Wouldnt want you thinking we dont appreciate you :)
Not a myth. The myth is that Deb Armstrong's tips are useful. The first thing a skier should hear is to be balanced over the middle of their skis. This tip is so convoluted it is difficult to determine the point. It takes a non linear path to conclude that if you are balanced, arms/hands in front. Where is the revelation? You might as well write that if your boots are 3+ sizes too big, hands back or forward won't really matter anyway. Hands in front of the body is not a myth, nor is it a cure all. No one ever said it was, which seems to be the point of the 'tip'. I rate it as ½ star out of 10.
Hearing so very often on the hill "get your arms forward" is what inspired this video. Very often when I hear this tip no change occurred for the skier when they get their hands up. The hands forward does not help because there are other issues in their skiing that are so significant that need attention first. Many skiers believe the arms are the fix ND this is not so. Thats all.. i have other videos that get to more particular points about upper body posture. My latest video, " the importance of arms in skiing" may be of interest to you.
Love this! Thank you for sharing as this is a great clinic for instructors , coaches and as you said friends and family trying help their own. Thanks Deb. Keep this stuff coming ! :)
Couldn’t agree with you more! I’ve been arguing this point for quite some time. This is why until someone can really use their poles as a pole touch I take the poles away. This way they have to focus on their feet especially when they want to move around. With out poles in their hand their hands naturally fall into a more athletic position. It’s amazing listening to instructors and their skier analysis and they start at the body but not at what the skis are doing. Everything I need to know about somebody skiing I can assess by watching them skate up a slight hill.
I've always taught new adult skiers to pretend they're pushing on the accelerator with their feet. It will automatically move their weight and hips forward, putting pressure against the tongue of the boot. It will invariably give them better control.
So true. The athletic stance is the key in so many sports, try playing basketball on your heels with your hands back for example. The very first thing I do when helping someone with their skiing is getting them in the correct stance which includes getting your hands in front of your hips. Its amazing how quickly once they are balanced properly on a gentle slope that you can then move to working on proper carving skills. Once those basics foundations are there then its just practice practice.
"Hands forward will only work if you are generally in the ballpark of good balance". Well said!! When I was learning I found myself consciously focusing on too many little "correct positions", to the point of not feeling relaxed or natural. I think you have to have a hierarchy of these things which needs more emphasis in instructional videos.
‘Arms forward’ is a tool and it’s helpful (not a myth). Awareness of where your hands are is important. Balance I’d the key. I liked your explanation of that piece. Thanks.
It’s incredibly helpful. I understand what deb is getting at, but the hands forward do a lot to promote that more balanced stance. I struggle with balance in general due to a condition I was not with, and keeping my hands forward (and actually pole planting) help me out tremendously.
Deb, Excellent video. I have a tendency to over-rotate my upper body in turns and I often have my inside arm trailing behind me in the turn. Working on keeping the upper body facing downhill helps a lot.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong The SKNG Ski School You Tube channel taught when you are in the skiing stance if your fore arms are level like you are holding a trey, you are more or less balanced over the middle of your skis.
Fair enough Deb! I do tend to focus on hands to stabilize out-of-balance folks, but with new skiers it's to quiet them down so I can work on getting and keeping them in balance by focusing on a good balanced stance with shin/boot contact. My point is to get people moving forward. I certainly agree that a world cup racer, or a very accomplished skier, can make good balanced turns without their hands in front, but I also think that depends on the situation. If I'm in deep snow or crud, the last thing I want is to drop a hand into the backseat. Just like a sideslip. We're taught that it has to be done while facing down hill, but I can do one facing across the hill or looking up the run for that matter. A new skier hasn't developed that feel for the snow yet. Ultimately, to my mind it's about developing good habits and body discipline. But your point of focusing on what's going on in the boots is well taken and I totally agree.
I try to make the point that the arms are important. yet so many focus on the arms as the first "go to" issue and generally that is not where I would begin. We ski with the legs, the lower body. The arms can create a mess if not managed properly so it is good to bring them in control so that they are not the distraction. But we ski with the lower body primarily and the arms are a supporting role. Just my thoughts. Take good care.
The more advanced you get, the more you should be in the back seat. Look at any good skier in GS, slalom, or any one that is a really good carver, they rarely ever rise above a seated position. When your learning it is not good, but when your very advanced most rudimentary ski instructor technique is thrown out the window.
Too many coaches give feedback,such as hands forward, without understanding the WHY. We all like to use catch phrases but please understand the reasoning behind the statement before you confuse someone or if in an exam before you put your foot in your mouth 😎⛷⛷
True, true, however ... 😉 Teaching family members 🙂 I put it as well as a second key point right after the balance because it is helping to keep position, but of course when heaps are in proper place 👍
I was an instructor in the Cascades. We kept the poles away until the students learned balance. Then a focus on having the hands forward, which improved balance. Hands forward, weight forward; never a problem. With hands down, the weight goes back, and a fall soon follows.
Hands/arms forward can be an extremely effective method to correct both balance problems and arms flailing, especially in kids. Ever try to teach a 5-yo how to properly stack for balance or feel their shins? Too technical for them. But, do a few slow exercises with proper hand position, and the rest falls into place. Beginners usually can't even FEEL their feet, let alone control them. But they can SEE their hands, and keeping them in proper position will force them to use their hips/ankles/feet/skis to turn, instead of their waists. It's a tool, not an end all. I'll take a never/ever down a green run, have them think ONLY about their hands, and they will be making nice turns by the bottom. The moment you tell a beginner like that about feet, edges, tilt, twist, it soon falls apart. Yes, getting in tune with every body part involved in turning, and developing proper balance, are skills to advance to, but by then, most people have already gotten the hand/arm position pretty much dialed in. It's just fine-tuning and developing awareness from that point on. Whenever I get a student whose technique starts to break down (including mine), I always go back to hand position and re-build from there. Proper hand position should build the stack and put the weight in the front of the boots, then minor corrections from there.
I would propose that instead of *telling* a skier, especially a child, how to attain a body position with the center of their mass right over their base of support (feet) to lead them in a series of games and exercises that put them in that effective for skiing fundamental body position. In short, create an *environment* where a stacked body position is the outcome.
I’ve seen so many skiers do the ‘right’ thing with their hands whose shoulders are way off and hips are even further adrift. Its easy to forget hands are connected to the rest of the body.
Spot on. Center fore-aft balance is #1. That said, letting your inside hand get behind you is asking for trouble. When I used to teach and coach racing, I would tell people, it's like dropping your hands in boxing. You can get away with it here or there. But if you make a habit of letting your inside hand get behind you, you are going to end up on the floor.
If I was pressed to select one option for back seaters then Hips forward. You can even press your shins and still be too far back. Keep the videos going and stay safe and positive!
No, you can not! If you can get an enough high pressure between your shins and your boot-tongues, you will not be too far back! This pressure creates your steering power, and that is what you need for your balance.
The only indicator of balance for skiers is where you feel pressure under the base of support/ our feet. Ideally we want to pressure the center of the ski for maximum efficiency of sidecut which is somewhere around the front of the arch. Pressing on the tongue of the boot not only weakens our ability to hold a strong edge but can actually dump us in the backseat. Try it yourself, standing on flat terrain in skis, continue to flex your ankles and notice where pressure is underfoot. Then straighten your ankles, pressing your calf into back of boot, you’ll notice the pressure moves forward under toes and ball of foot. Keeping ankle open will allow for stronger edge angle also.
@@blackestjake I am sorry, but you are wrong! Start by rethinking about how ankle flex is made. You can flex your ankles in 2 different ways. 1. Passive ankle flex: You flex your hip joints and extend you knees. This moves your body forwards in the direction of the ski-tips and presses the ankles into a flexion. 2. Active ankle flex: Dorsal flexion. You press your feet upwards inside your boots. Both ways create a pressure on the tongues of the boots but in different ways. These pressures on boot-tongues prevent the skis from running ahead of the body.
I love to see your videos I just learning how ski, I have a big issue to keep my upper body square, I move all my body when I skiing like dancing salsa! I need some tips please
Good point, Deb! Did you ever heard about Jean Mayer (légend of French ski team with Jean Vuarnet and Jean-Claude Killy) who was in 2016 the director of the ski school at Taos Ski Valley, at the age of 79 years old. He made a video in french talking about making the turn on the upper ski instead of the lower ski. You can see that video on RU-vid: ''Le plaisir de skier, Jean Mayer'' (saison 12, épisode 1 et 2). I would like to have your interpretation about that. ''Ainsi va la vie...''
Jean Mayer I am proud to say was my mentor. I love Jean and he taught me so much. I just came back from Taos yesterday. We all miss Jean very much. Thank you for mentioning him here. Take good care
You gotta learn how to relax your upper body and how to carve. You'll enjoy skiing much more ! P.S. and the "hands forward" exercise helps some people to keep their sholders allined with their hips ;)
Your point is correct. did you see the end of the video? I do not negate the important fact that arms are important. however the point of the video is that for many arms forward is not the fix to their problems and so many default to the saying of "get your arms forward". have a great day and thanks for your comment.
Only works if you already know how to ski properly but for those who do not and sit back, telling them to move balance forward and use arms forward to help them achieve the proper position helps a great deal.
Yes, the double pole plant drill is fantastic. however I wouldn't have someone do that drill who is way in the backseat. I would focus on other fundamentals first. basic balance drills. However for someone slightly back, or for someone who s hands are not disciplined, flailing around, the double pole plant drill is fantastic! good comment
Если присмотреться внимательно, то мы легко определим элемент подруливания внутренней лыжей, а при каждой остановке лыжница переходит в утрированную стойку конькового шага.
Hi, Great topic. As a PSIA instructor I have a philosophy that, from the waist up, is a indicator of what is happening (or not), from the waist down. So if someone has their hands dropped back, usually they are in the back seat. Having them put their hands forward doesn't move their core forward. Asking them to make more shin pressure will usually see the CM move towards the tip of the ski and you should see hands move forward. The exception to this is the lazy skier (Me), that is in balanced, but still has his hands dropped back. When i get aggressive or in a dynamic situation, my hands move forward! Have fun at Steamboat and say hi to Nelson.
I have a new automatic, Swiss watch. It's very important to wave my arms around and punch the air. This winds the watch and reminds me of my time! Also you got to crack open some tree branches. We open. Great fun. Killing it. Not long now.
Fantastic topic..that can be used by any of us. I asked my husband to look at the exact section of the video where you were emphasized the hands in both situation.. don't worry, no one would say that "Deb said this and that.." my husband coaches, daughter races, son coaches...mom is not🤷🏻♀️, but mom wants to get better and we all see the very good point you have emphasized..good touch for the technique. I pass alon the compliment from my husband to you..the acknowledgement of your hard work when you do such videos...such an inspiration. Take good care of yourself, one day we will travel again and we will just stop by to say " hi". 🤗
Hi I’m a long time watcher. I was wondering in the future could you use some contrast tape on your arms and legs. In Viking they make arm sleeves in different colors. I’m just trying to make a better video for everyone. Keep making great videos for everyone
I teach adaptive, been doing it for 25 years. I never use "hands forward" to correct forward/aft balance. However, it is my most important tool for correcting arm flailing, shoulder/torso twisting, turn initiation with feet and edges, pretty much every other beginner issue (or established bad habits). It's not as much "hands forward" as it is hands/arms out in front.
I do a ton of drills without poles and hands in all sorts of different positions. We even ended up doing the macarena (kids idea!) through brushy race course.
Funny to see the reactions you get here! Of course the point is that your weight should centered. And people who are saying that people cannot feel where their weight is are crazy. How could they walk? There is a reason people get in the back seat.
Hi Deb, your videos have helped a lot in improving my technique, and I wish that you continue to make these awesome videos. However I cannot find the link to contribute on your channel. If possible please do post a direct link.
It’s not a myth. The hands are an indicator of skiers being off balance. Try explaining to a novice skier how to lean into their boots on an easy blue. It’s counter intuitive to hurl your body down a hill and their hands drag behind them and they keep their poles in the snow. Hands forward is a typical INDICATOR of fore and aft balance. For some people the hands works and for some it doesn’t. It isn’t a “myth”. You need different tactics for teaching different individuals. Hands forward is one of them.
lol, interesting new feature. Anyway, love your content. I've been coaching my friends and mother for +5 years now, and have been pretty successful, and is something I really enjoy. However, your beginner video #1, 2, 3 really helped me get them to the next level much quicker! The explanations were fantastic, and I recommend your videos to all my ski friends. Would love to see some more content in that beginner / advanced beginner section as I've been skiing by myself for over 10 years now and am much better than my friends, but based on these videos, I'm still working on the intermediate material, and I'd love to build more of a foundation for my own skiing as well as helping to coach for my friends. Thank you, and happy new year!
GREATLY appreciated. This goes a long way in supporting my channel to bring you more videos like this one. So glad you appreciate the video. Take good care. Where do you ski?
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong New York Catskills, and Vermont a few times a year. Went to Deer Valley / Alta Snowbird for the first time last season, definitely very different skiing West vs. East.
As a long time ski pro I totally agree with you, like you I have always stressed the stance/balance first and the hands position 2nd. I find many skiers only remember the hands position and end up in the back seat. I found my 3 kids were in the back seat until they were about 8 years old and it seemed to happen naturally.
Come on. Most instructors harp on getting hands forward because so many skiers let their hands drop, and their weight go back. So "hands forward" does not really mean that. It means "not back"
She kicks her tails out, not a very good skier. Got the point weight back hands forward doesn't help. On the flat, it doesn't matter where your hands are. On the steep hands back almost for sure, the skier will go down.
You might enjoy these clips of my skiing more. I hope you like the video. Take good care and happy skiing. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3J68EwmdQIs.html
Did you watch the video clip of when I am back seat I am pole planting. But my arms are not getting me forward in that clip. Arms forward are important and arms help with balance yet arms alone will not put someone forward. As for your question, the pole plant comes from out of the wrist. That can be done if someone is in the back seat. Heck, many of the population pole plant from the back seat. Not skillfully mind you, but they do it. All the beat to you!
@@freeridecoach the question of how do yiu pole plantnif yiu are not forward? Is that the question? Well, that is a very simple answer. Yiu pole plant with yiur wrists and this can be done with out any problem while sitting back on your skis. A pole plant comes from the wrist, or it should sonthis is not an issue. Arms forward does not ensure someone is in balance over ones skis.
I helped some friends and family with telling them when ever you feel like you’re getting a little bit back seat to punch the hands forward... and they all admit it’s helpful...but like you said they’re all pretty good parallel skiers that hands forwards I believe does help get us back into the drivers seat!
Yes, the hands do help. the hands can be an important part of the equation. There are many times people talk about the arms forward but they are still very much in the back seat and just putting their hands forward is not enough of a fix. Take good care. thanks for the comment
You want your hands forward because you are carrying poles and the poles act as sensors like Schrodingers cats whiskers delivering important life saving information about your location to allow you to defeat probability and keep accurate location of your body above the snow and your relative reference frame to gravity at any given moment. It's a very good, happy idea to entertain... Special Relativity.
Sure, hands forward it good, but not the only answer as I state in this video. have you seen this video? Take good care! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LiWcN4PfgFM.html
Well this is a little like; “Bend zee knees”. You can ‘bend zor knees’ 90 degrees and be in a sitting position, BUT, thinking about your hands forward; ‘As if carrying a tray’ helps the rest of the body follow, buy yes, you can be weight forward and arms back, or arms outstretched but ‘bending zee knees’ in a sitting position 🙂
Interesting that this video came up today as I overheard a ski instructor giving a customer tips about pole plant. I had just been watching the skier and he was throwing every turn with the upper body hence very unstable and had no grip. I was much more concerned with his fundamentals of steering the skis than arms/poles.
I always thought ski pole usage should be earned. Like, if the student can demonstrate fundamental understanding of lower and mid body dynamics, they have earned the opportunity to throw rhythm into the mix. Until they have this understanding, it’s just being used as a crutch to stand back up after falling.
@@stevedoe1630 I don’t think there’s anything wrong with carrying poles for use around lifts or to help to with flats etc. We want people to enjoy skiing after all. I just think that with regards to technique for early skiers, if you have limited time with a learner, we should focus on the most important aspects rather than what may be the most obvious (to the untrained eye).
Teaching pole plant is a great way to ruin someone’s skiing. I don’t teach pole plant, per se, rather I teach my clients how to prepare for the next turn by tying together the movements of lower body with anticipation of upper body and downhill pole. If they are prepared for the PP then no thought is required to actually plant the pole, it will happen naturally to stabilize their upper body.
Hands forward....not arms. Stay centered over skis, and weight on balls of feet...not heels. Hands do need to be slightly in front of your torso, especially on steep, or if running gates.
Hi Deb, you have earned the honor of first comment ever! Quick background, I am a dual discipline instructor (PSIA1 & AASI1 + CST) and former NASTAR racer. I ABSOLUTELY appreciate the sentiment that hand position should not be the main focus in ski instruction, however considering the CAP model, I feel it is important to consider hand position as a very valuable tool in teaching overall balance and body position. Assuming the student has been properly taught to press their shins into the boot prior to the (assuming level 3-5) lesson, hand position can be a GREAT tool for cleaning up balance and edge transitions. Here is how I have approached these lessons with overwhelming success: After an observational run or two, and confirming upper body fluidity is an appropriate skill to address (presence of poles irrelevant) I instruct the student to pretend they are driving a "big truck". Together we take the large steering wheel in our hands and make LRTs using the "big truck steering wheel" to initiate. I would then ask the student to self-assess the required physical exertion during the activity and explain how using the upper body to initiate turns prevents the lower body from having to compensate balance. Throughout the lesson we progress to SRTs using the same "big truck" method creating a comfort level in the student to dip their outside shoulder over center of gravity to initiate aggressive carved turns. In my experience, the distraction of the "steering wheel" (hand position) helps the student overcome the fear of engaging the downhill edge. I am not challenging your primary message in this video, but I do think it's important to recognize hand position as a valuable teaching tool in the right hands. (Recognizing that is probably not the majority of the audience viewing your video) Thanks!
Balance, the ball of the foot on the centre of the running surface of the ski. Nowadays with railbinding almost never the case. Get that right and skiing is must easier, balance wise.
Thanks Deb. Along this line, can you post some instruction on stance height, pole height, and boot forward lean/flex? I think they are closely interrelated. Long poles lead to a relaxed upright stance while shorter poles lead to a more flexed and athletic stance. And forward lean of the boot may also play a part in stance but I'm not sure exactly how. My wife is tall, skis with long poles, and has an upright stance. She actually has two sets of poles that she inherited from a taller brother. I shortened one pair for those front of the mountain days and I have noticed that she complains that the balls of her feet hurt after a day of skiing with them. Her boots are a light flex with a relatively upright cuff angle. I'm not asking you diagnose and remedy potential problems. I would appreciate feedback you would give to a fellow instructors on how these three aspects of skiing are interrelated and may effect one another.
Now that type of support will keep me making more videos. I am so happy you appreciate the content!!! Thank you so much for supporting the channel. Take care
