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THE DOUGLAS STORY | Douglas Motorcycle History Film | Bristol History Series

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This video follows the Douglas motorcycle history - the British bike that took the world by storm. Make sure you've subscribed to my channel for more like this ru-vid.com.... During the 1920s the Douglas Motorcycle Company of Bristol led the world in motorcycle design and manufacture, holding 150 World and British records.
📺👀WATCH NEXT in the SPECTEL BRISTOL HISTORY SERIES:
🎥 A HISTORY OF BRISTOL: • A HISTORY OF BRISTOL: ...
🎥 BRISTOL AT WAR: • BRISTOL AT WAR: Bristo...
🎥A CENTURY OF BRISTOL CINEMA HISTORY: • A CENTURY OF BRISTOL C...
🎥THE MATTHEW SHIP, BRISTOL: • THE MATTHEW : Ship Rec...
🎥A HISTORY OF KINGSWOOD FOREST: • A HISTORY OF KINGSWOOD...
🔔Make sure you've subscribed to my channel for more like this! ru-vid.com....
📚Want to know more? Read this article which details the highlights of each documentary in the Bristol History Series and includes links so you can easily select which videos you'd like to watch! practicallyper...
This film looks at some of the highlights of the Douglas Motorcycle empire:-
- Winning the Isle of Man TT races
- Motorcycle Football
- Contributing to the War effort
- The Royal Princes Albert & Henry joining the ranks of Douglas owners
We discuss vintage "Duggies" with Bill Douglas, grandson of the founder of the company and enthusiasts Henry Body, Ray Cordy, Graeme "Brooklands" Brown, Barry Russell, Roy Ashford, Ian Watson and Bob Thomas.
See footage of dedicated motorcycle enthusiasts carrying on the Douglas tradition today, with rallies, speedway and sprint racing against modern bikes and the Douglas motorcycle cavalcade..
This fascinating film includes exclusive interviews and genuine archival footage. Another professional documentary in the Bristol History Series.
Thanks to Kingswood Heritage Museum and the London Douglas Motor Cycle Club for your assistance
PRODUCED BY SPECTEL, BRISTOL
©Spectel
You can also find me in the following places:-
Blog: practicallyperf...
Twitter: / pracperfectmums
Facebook: / practicallyperfectmums
Instagram: / practicallyperfectmums
Pinterest: / ppms
Snapchat!: / janebatt
Travel Massive Bristol Chapter Leader: travelmassive....
Like what you've seen? If you'd like to discuss the possibility of working together, please drop me a line
email practicallyperfectmums @ gmail.com
Technical:-
Edited on Avid

Опубликовано:

5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 166

@PPMsTV 4 года назад

They were certainly built to last! Who still owns a Douglas? Why not watch this next? 🎥THE STORY OF THE MATTHEW SHIP, BRISTOL: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-X2mjPH9sNZc.html

@bravobase6801 2 года назад

I have 3 here in Zimbabwe they were brought over during the Rhodesia era.

@johnmartin7158 2 года назад

@@bravobase6801 Nice history and collection you have. Fantastic. NZ

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Are they still running?

@markdodd1152 2 года назад

@@bravobase6801 earth to BraVo Base . Do you copy. Are they still running ?

@bravobase6801 2 года назад

@@markdodd1152 got 1 running perfect and the other 2 we are currently working on and rebuilding..

@georgemacdonell2341 2 года назад

Even as a kid in fla. I've loved some English motorcycles, and the Brits got the most out of them. Thank you for this profile.

@gordondavies7379 3 года назад

Came across this item by chance and so glad I did. Many years ago I had the Douglas MK5 which I enjoyed many rides on. Eventually completely stripped it and resprayed it polychromatic green after picking up a tin from the factory in Bristol. I then part exchanged it for another iconic motor cycle the Ariel Square 4. So I have very fond memories of motorcycling.

@BrassLock 4 года назад

Absolutely fascinating history. I've only ever seen "still photos" of the early models, and this video easily demonstrates the incredible power and speed they (still) have. Greetings from Chiang Mai, a city full of motorcycles.

@PPMsTV 4 года назад

Thanks Dav. Glad to hear you enjoyed it 😁

@Kevscancave 2 года назад

Absolutely Agree I’ve only seen in Photos! Thanks so much. This is great!

@KXTLE 2 года назад

Thankyou ! Really enjoyed this , I used to see Henry and Bill at sprints regularly. I learnt a lot about how to launch a bike off the start line from Henry . Bill Douglas is such a lovely bloke , always enjoyed chatting to him 👍

@guydavies3035 3 года назад

My late father owned and enjoyed several Douglas’s, or Duggies as he referred to them. His re-engagement with motorcycling was when he acquired a wreck of a Douglas Dragonfly. That was re-built, and enjoyed all around the Lakes, together with one of his best pals, who owned a Douglas Bulldog. Dad ended up with a Douglas S6, which was his pride and joy, but he also had a much later jampot model. Sadly I was unable to take them on when he died. But his very best days were spent “fettling” his Duggies.

@Mrdrivereight 2 года назад

That sidecar design is genius. Thank you so much for taking the time to make this film!

@n.mcneil4066 2 года назад

Flixable, a bus company, built a sidecar with a parallelogram linkage to the bike. When the bike leaned the sidecar wheel the sidecar wheel leaned with the bike.

@thevoxofreason8468 3 года назад

This is absolutely one of the best motorcycle documentaries I've seen. Well done. Thanks so much for posting it here.

@BrassLock 2 года назад

I've watched this twice over the past year; thoroughly enjoyed it each time. Thanks for uploading such an important history of Douglas motorcycles.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Thank you so much for taking the time to leave such a lovely comment. I'll pass this on to my parents who produced this film with me.

@jamesjansen8386 2 года назад

I am fortunate to be temporary caretaker and owner of a 1925 Douglas CW that is a wonderful machine. After fabricating several small bits and some sorting , the 2 3/4 HP. runs and drives quite nicely . Owning the Douglas has been a wonderful experience! I am curious to know how many of these machines are in the United States? I suspect very few . The Douglas is not restored but simply refreshed and is in nice original condition 👌.

@kirstenspencer3630 2 года назад

Lucky you...

@routmaster38 2 года назад

I owned a T35 ,350 Douglas that was a nice ride but suffered with broken gearbox selectors ,causing rear wheel lockups and also frame fractures of the twin frame tubes entering the swing arm bracket casting. caused by poor materials.I managed to copy the selector forks with better metals and a small fabrication firm in Stockport rebuilt the frame in Reynolds 531!He also made a chamfer on the frame sockets to relieve stress from flexing.

@billsmith2696 2 года назад

That was one of the most informative documentaries on Dugies that I ever seen, the section on the sidecar was a astounding, I've never seen such style from a chair on the island! thank you so much.

@servicarrider 3 года назад

I thought that I knew motorcycle history pretty well. I now stand corrected. Excellent presentation.

@dougiequick1 Год назад

Would be awesome if Douglas gets ressurected as a British version of boxer twins!

@buckwheatINtheCity 2 года назад

Long live the Douglas! 🏆

@alanmarr3323 2 года назад

in 1948 my father drove to Spain with a 600 Douglas and sidecar

@LeesTechRoom 4 года назад

A good watch, I'm a biker so this is right up my street

@PPMsTV 4 года назад

Thanks for the positive feedback, Lee 👍

@Claude1100 2 года назад

Absolutely superb , I'll share this with all my motorcycle mates what history ,the name Douglas has taken on a whole new meaning, very grateful for the education. Thanks for sharing

@cristianpopescu78 3 года назад

Great.This should be teached in the school.Beautiful ,very educative,amazing.Thanks! (Schopen sounds lovely in the Background!)

@RocknBoondock 2 года назад

The first (and coolest) vintage bike I realized I'll never be able to afford.

@johnathandaviddunster38 Год назад

BEAUTIFUL MACHINES, THE RIDERS SMOKED MORE THAN THE BIKES!!!

@andrewtanner4893 3 года назад

Thanks for the amazing story of the Douglas motor cycles it was really interesting to see 👀 all the different bikes that were made over the years it was really great to see them all together ☕🍰🥄

@stevenhuber3228 2 года назад

Great history! Unfortunately no mention of Robert E. Fulton Jr who rode a Douglas around the world back in the early 1930's. Another testament to the Douglas' durability.

@Nanox99 2 года назад

I was especting some mention to Mr. Fulton too. Anyway, a very good film.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Glad you enjoyed it. Just too much to pack into an hour or so!

@n.mcneil4066 2 года назад

Flixable, a bus company, built a sidecar with a parallelogram linkage. This enabled the sidecar wheel to lean with the bike leaned on corners. TheFlixabe was variation of the sidecar you used for racing.

@MrHugemoth 2 года назад

My ex wife had a 1963 or 1964 Douglas Vespa 150. Almost identical to the Italian Vespa but a few minor differences. This was in California in the late 70s.

@annajeannettedixon2453 4 года назад

interesting programme I see they remembered my great uncle freddie Dixon

@donnieallums4847 5 месяцев назад

Loved the video! Next time I go to barber motor sports museum in pale city Alabama, I will look for some Douglas bikes. I am sure there are some on display. It is the largest motorcycle museum in the world! Greetings from south east Alabama USA ☮️❤️

@jncg2311 2 года назад

Thank you for uploading this. A superb piece of work and very enjoyable. These are the only motorbikes that I'm truly interested in. I've long wanted to find a 1930 Douglas 350, that year and model especially as my grandfather, aged 21 rode one around most of continental Europe in 1934, particularly Austria and Germany. This months long trip, made with a friend on a Matchless 500 still has me in awe when I learn more about it. I have several photos of him and his bike, 'the transport' as he called it. Knowing him, it would have been a well researched and considered decision to make the trip on a Douglas.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you so much for the great feedback 😁 Good luck on finding one!

@alanmarr3323 2 года назад

My father drove Douglases from 1928 onwards !

@johnmartin7158 2 года назад

Tnx Alan for sharing that history. Very much appreciated. NZ

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Wow!

@laterdudesaint 4 года назад

What a great presentation, film, music , all great. I'm 66 and still riding in the mountains of Costa Rica.

@xaviorchelliah193 2 года назад

Wonderful discovery 1910 2022 I think there is no more this moto cycles Anyway thank you Douglas

@ssecyl 4 года назад

Great video! My gd father would have loved it. He used to own a bike shop in France!

@PPMsTV 4 года назад

That's good to hear ssecyl. Thanks for joining the premiere too!

@moggymorgan1235 4 года назад

Lovely to see Bill in his garden on Cadbury Heath road 46 min

@mikeskidmore6754 Год назад

Impressive Motorcycles .. They sure have a lot of moving parts and Pieces ..

@carrickrichards2457 2 года назад

My grandfather, Gordon Richards, raced in the Isle of Man TT before WW1. We are not sure what he rode, but it is interesting to see what he may have used. Racing probably saved his life as his skills pulled him into other work in the army with a better life expectancy.

@craigalcock6868 Год назад

Amazing great Vidio loved it thankyou

@frederickbowdler8169 Год назад

Beautiful engine design.

@resonance99 3 года назад

My great grandmas grandparents were the creators of Douglas

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

That’s a great claim to fame! Do you have any memorabilia?

@resonance99 2 года назад

@@PPMsTV Unfourtanately not, my uncle has a few bits however he is a severe hoarder but we are due to help him clear out soon, I'll let you know if I find anything. He also said he would buy us a bike to work on so if that happens, keep an eye on my channel as I will post videos.

@markdodd1152 2 года назад

It feels like the British version of the Harley-Davidson story. If they kept going they would have been just as big. Very well built bikes , and a great and sounding engine. You can hear those race bikes just dying to eat and breathe speed. what is the music second to last at the end , the piano is really cool

@paulbriggs3072 2 года назад

I think English motorcycles are the most classic look, though I admit certain classic American and German motorcyles are also admirable.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

👍

@openroadandoutdoors9716 3 года назад

some nice bikes

@richardcarr7557 2 года назад

Such a shame that such brilliant makes of British bikes disappeared. Allowed to go under after years of lack of investment.

@EarthSurferUSA 2 года назад

Lack of investment huh. It was the return on investment that was the problem. Now the USA, the land of the free never made very many bikes, and that was because sales would not support more after the Model-T, (affordable car). I would bet the automobile was a factor there too, and then, there came the Japanese competition. If it is free market, it is a matter of sales.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

😔

@fredjones7307 2 года назад

I remember seeing one in about 1960, transverse engine and torsion bar suspension. I thought at the time it looked a bit like an old farm gate. Wish I now owned it.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Wonder if it's still kicking around?!

@stevec-b6214 2 года назад

great stuff! would like to have heard about the change from fore and aft to transverse layout

@kennethdilbeck6996 2 года назад

Incredible

@garrieleepeck8753 2 года назад

Beautiful bikes !!!

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

❤️

@garrieleepeck8753 2 года назад

@@PPMsTV thank you what a beautiful time .apart from terrible wars .amazing story I come from nr Bristol .how great Britain was

@bobeden5027 2 года назад

in 1969 I had a carbide lamp that I used for potholing.

@EarthSurferUSA 2 года назад

Yep, that's when our roads started getting bad. Thanks a lot Bob. :)

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Rather you than me. I would be claustrophobic!

@LeCoindeMel 4 года назад

This is really interesting. I'd never heard of Douglas bikes but I'm sure my father-in-law has! Sent him the link x

@PPMsTV 4 года назад

Thanks Mel. You’re a star! 🌟

@KnottingKnots 4 года назад

Good to meet you in the FB group ;-)

@PPMsTV 4 года назад

And you!

@KnottingKnots 4 года назад

@@PPMsTV My comment was really a test for you! 💡 *Quick tip:* 💡 Whenever you reply to a comment, ask a question. This way you create a community and get people to come back. Also, by doing this the YT algorithm will reward your channel!

@BoB4jjjjs Год назад

Brilliant.

@redtrummy 2 года назад

Wonderful - thanks

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it 😁

@dougiequick1 Год назад

Blows my mind how successful companies die or get swallowed up via poor managment in hard times,,,,all it takes is someone at the reigns who does not love motorcycles ....but rather beans

@russthebiker Год назад

or evolution, or free market changes, some companies have retained their ethos, but eventually it will stymy them

@russthebiker Год назад

I love hearing the Brizzle accents, I live and work in Gloucestershire and have spent much time in Brizzle, its always a joy to visit, I did once try to find the remains of the factory but no luck, it would be a great tribute to the Company if the Museum had a Gallery dedicated to these machines,in the same way they have lots of things related to the Bristol Aircraft Company, who built some of the best aircraft in the world, perhaps like Ukraine Brizzle has an engineering gene running through its folk

@PPMsTV Год назад

There’s an area dedicated to Douglas motorbikes at Kingswood Heritage Museum in Warmley. Several Duggies are on display there. There’s a photo of the area on their website. www.kingswoodmuseum.org.uk/museum/history/

@russthebiker Год назад

@@PPMsTV many thanks I did not know about that A visit is in order

@PPMsTV Год назад

Some of our film was shot at Kingswood Museum - the cavalcade went from there. It’s not part of Bristol Museums and it’s run by some knowledgeable volunteers. I think you’ll find things there you won’t see anywhere else! I was trying to check whether M-shed on Bristol harbourside had any bikes on display there as they used to have a big transport section. I haven’t been for several years and can’t find that info online but might be worth checking out too if you’re ever over that way.

@LordRustyMcAlpin 2 года назад

they should bring these races back.

@ofwloveduo2424 4 года назад

Awesome motor bikes! thank you for sharing this to us :)

@PPMsTV 4 года назад

Glad you like them. Thanks for your support!

@flatbrokefrank6482 2 года назад

Brilliant!

@richaddulieu1967 2 года назад

Great film 🎥 love it 😀 👍🏻 😍 👌 ❤

@routmaster38 8 месяцев назад

I owned a 1949 T35 Douglas that drove nicely but suffered from poor materials such as broken gearbox selecter forks and fracture prone frame,cured by complete frame rebuild in reynolds 532 I think?),which was lighter and slightly more flexible.I wish I had it now.

@ernesttravers7517 2 года назад

An excellent article I didn't know they were so good

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it 😁

@ernesttravers7517 2 года назад

@@PPMsTV You're welcome

@jeffpiper7430 4 года назад

looking forward to it

@PPMsTV 4 года назад

Thanks Jeff. Hope to see you tomorrow at 11

@jeffpiper7430 4 года назад

@@PPMsTV.... definitly seeing i have a 1946 douglas t35

@frederickbowdler8169 Год назад

A shield to only partially protect the legs after your clothes wrapped around the flywheel.

@christopherk111 2 года назад

perfection!!!,,thank you!!!

@thetrinidadsisters6337 4 года назад

Interesting👍🏻

@PPMsTV 4 года назад

Thanks for the visit

@belperflyer7419 2 года назад

Those marshals on the TT film must have had a death wish to stand there indicating the course! I wonder how many got hit by over enthusiastic riders!

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Scary stuff!

@thinkandrepent3175 2 года назад

The British were without a doubt the masters of motorcycle design early on. It's a terrible shame that they were robbed of their industry and heritage like we were in America with our cars.

@russthebiker Год назад

we were not robbed, lack of investment, a war, unions, and the inability of the management to look forward, there is a book called whatever happened to the british motorcyle industry, it tells the truth by a man who was there, you need to look forward, improve, adapt to changing markets and give the customer what they want, Soichero Honda, probably the greatest engineer of the last century, visited all of the major motorcycle factories to get ideas, and to make friends and research different markets, when he visited Motor Guzzi he paid them royalties for one of their designs which became the foundation for the cub, the most mass produced motorcycle in the world ever they have the minutes, the patent, and the fees paid on view in the archives, then he went on to improve design and production, simplifying and improving quality, developing CNC machinery, solving problems for other manufacturers, and indirectly helping the rest of the motorcycle industry around the world

@tomnekuda3818 2 года назад

Simple and effective........sure makes it better for the monkey. I have always wanted to try that!

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

The monkey?

@tomnekuda3818 2 года назад

@@PPMsTV The guy in the sidecar in races was termed "the monkey". I suppose because he had to scramble around a lot to have his weight in the correct place for the rider. I thought that was pretty funny when I first heard it.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

@@tomnekuda3818 Ah yes, makes sense. Not sure I’ve heard that term before. Thanks for the explanation 😁

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

@@tomnekuda3818 Ah yes, makes sense. Not sure I’ve heard that term before. Thanks for the explanation 😁

@matthewperry5121 2 года назад

Awsome

@shaneksmith1957 Год назад

Thanks for that!

@davidhead5943 2 года назад

From year to year how long did they make these motorcycle ?

@archmcdonald6170 2 года назад

What year did they go from longitudinal to cross twins ?

@bill2953 2 года назад

Does anyone know the titles of the classical piano pieces at 15:55 and 17:00 thereabouts?

@bill2953 2 года назад

Found Chopin Grande Valse Brilliante Op 18 but not the one the preceeds it.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Sorry I don't recall that.

@theknifedude1881 2 года назад

Hmm, maybe just‘cuz I’m old, but when you’re not talking the music doesn’t need to be nearly as loud as it is.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

I would have spent a lot of time sound balancing it when we made it years ago. I don't recall anyone else ever saying this and I couldn't change it now if I wanted to. We're all getting older though, hey 😉

@BuzzLOLOL 2 года назад

Read a book on old motorcycles but don't recall the Douglas name being in it...

@grahamovenden9007 2 года назад

was the book a 70's book on Japanese superbikes & published in Tokyo .

@BuzzLOLOL 2 года назад

@@grahamovenden9007 - No, it was a rather large 2000's book...

@bwfvc7770 2 года назад

Yeah teasing shot of the carb, but what sort of carb?

@darrinslack1269 2 года назад

Typical history series that finish`s at the dragonfly ,what this series should be saying is Douglas did`nt finish with the dragonfly but was saved by building the Vespa under licence ,Douglas was near bankrupt when it took on the licence to build the vespa in bristol with many of the parts made in England ,even to this day when anyone buy`s a vespa in the uk you will see the licence written as Douglas Vespa .Just to add for many years the import of Vespas came into the UK to bristol along with other Piaggio owned two wheelers and three wheelers as the main headquarters and stores where at fishponds site

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Vespas are mentioned briefly in the film, along with the fact that the company’s sales and service arm survived until 1982. (Around 53 minutes). Thanks for the additional info.

@russthebiker Год назад

I started my powered career on a Vespa 90, my father friend John, a skilled engineer was much pleased to see the Douglas Connection and explained it to me, for him, Douglas exemplified excellence in engineering, and he was no mean rider either

@baysidejim Год назад

They were fast in Europe but couldn’t outrun the Harleys.

@russthebiker Год назад

Europes road and needs were different to the USA, look at the way harley of that era in comparison to these long slow lithe motorcycles appear chunky short and the riders sit back with the handlebars coming back wards to them, even today Harleys are all frontage, they seem to go uphill, whereas European motorcycles stay slim and low, they are different horses for different courses, two completely different schools of design , dont forget you have lots of straight roads and long long distances to cover, so big engine and comfy riding position make sense, over an Italian Mountain, you need a different machine although both would perform the same task, and a Vincent was never outrun by a Harley

@chrisblester37 2 года назад

That record was down to the machine not breaking down . I think I could break that record my self I could take that trip down to 12 hours easily. Have a pit crew flowing me in case of break down not being slowed down buy the cops . Using modern day oils helps. If I could modern rings and piston, cold spark plugs so there is no chance of burning a hole in the piston. Wouldn't change the shape for performance but the metal for reliability if I was allowed, if not were everything in perfectly but not over used and have spears, and if I had a break down people to repair while I over saw and resting not getting my hands dirty but making sure that things were done correctly. Using modern rubber lowering that chance of getting flat tyres

@theknifedude1881 2 года назад

Yeah, bring a 2022 bike to the course they ran 100 years ago and you might be able to equal a few records.

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you so much for the lovely feedback 😁

@frederickbowdler8169 Год назад

The low C of G and balanced engine was unfortunately not adopted by other manufacturers why was this?

@russthebiker Год назад

singles and twins tended to be taller, but they had shorter frames to give quicker handling, in many ways the Douglas design was echoed by Moto Guzzis early singles, long low lithe, but then roads improved and you need a machine to change direction quickly

@441rider 2 года назад

Could BMW gotten it's idea with this?

@capitanvonchickenpants8492 Год назад

@johnnyhall7065 Год назад

Granville Bradshaw's ABC twin, I think, was the first horizontally oppposed across the frame, Flat twin design!

@garys4756 7 месяцев назад

BMW did admit they copied the flat twin engine from Douglas

@grahamovenden9007 2 года назад

Is the story true that BMW payed royalties to Douglas from 1929 to 1939 for the boxer engine design .

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

I don't know. Can anyone else help?

@johnathandaviddunster38 Год назад

JA I HEARD THIS AS BMW MADE A COPY OF THE AUSTIN SEVEN AROUND THIS TIME IT DOES SEEM PLAUSIBLE!!??

@dennisbean-larson2403 8 месяцев назад

Purpose for Criss-cross harness?

@matthewperry5121 2 года назад

And a clock

@randomkid8545 2 года назад

99th

@PPMsTV 2 года назад

@dangeroustoman 2 года назад

I know gas but what was dope?

@rosiehawtrey 2 года назад

Might be the stuff you use on aircraft fabric to tighten it up.. Often highly flammable. Add it to fuel and it might produce more power, alternatively you might end up with a cylinder head in the nuts..

@belperflyer7419 2 года назад

Methanol. It's the fuel used for model aircraft glow engines often with added nitro. At one time speedway and grass track motorcycles used it almost exclusively (they may still do but I've lost touch).

@brucecaldwell6701 Год назад

@@belperflyer7419 They still use methanol.

@garys4756 7 месяцев назад

@@brucecaldwell6701you can't beat the noise and smell of a speedway race👍

@brucecaldwell6701 7 месяцев назад

@@garys4756 I can only imagine how much of a rush it is to see it in person. Closest I've ever been is flat track. Got to see Kenny Roberts back in the day.