The Dumbest Thing I’ve Heard About .NET 

How can you replace SSMS in Linux?

Don't tell them VS Community is free, and SQL Server Express too!

The entire stack is both free and open.

@@_PulpoPaul Azure Data Studio

@@HMan2828 it's not free as in freedom

I remember hearing that (and maybe even saying it) in the early .NET 1.X days. But I trust MSFT on this one. It's in their best interest to keep C# active and growing.

Does he really have a mind?

I also believe that he misunderstood the senior dev. If you look at what the person wrote, you can see that he cannot even form a coherent sentence, and it fails on multiple levels.

I thought the same

same

We switched to C# when it came and we where 3 devs, so not really enterprise :D And with netcore you have the platform independence.

C# and Godot are a blast for me coming from C# corporate enterprise.

@@derangedftw That's good to hear. I'm a just retired C# developer that's been with C# since before it was first released. And looking at either Godot or Unity (at least before their little licensing kerfuffle) for an exploration into the world of game development. That's so different from the corporate work that I've done I want to give it a try.

How does acknowledging the truth behind the stats - namely that enterprise comprises a majority of C#’s usage - alienate game devs?

@@jacobstamm Because I don't think stats have caught up to what's actually been happening. I'll take for example the game They Are Billions ~2019. I'm pretty confident it was done entirely in C#. Excellent execution, but the company that produced it really kept it under secret scrutiny. So I guess what I'm saying is, the companies that produce games under C# even 30% of a game (usually server side) don't share this stat or even post it in the job description.

@@derangedftw Interesting. If that’s true, do you know why there would be such an anti-C# bias in the gaming space? It doesn’t seem plausible to me. I still hear about the occasional successful game being made in GameMaker for crying out loud, and I remember in 2006 when it was little more than Scratch plus some scripting.

Yeah... Weird mentality. "When we make it big, I want this to be unmaintainable"?

It's all about being trendy with Javascript all the way down nowadays. Who cares if the serverless server bill is 7x higher than if we used a more efficient language with a more optimized and mature set of libraries.

I blame cheap coding schools and colleges for this. They've brainwashed a lot of people.

When they insist for a React frontend even if .net is capable of it, you know they already want to shoot themselves in the foot.

when compared to old java code and old springboot backends, C# has it far better than the competition

I expect they were on some old legacy .NET Framework 4.7 codebase and some higher up demanded they upgrade to .NET 5 or something. An upgrade like that would make anyone hate Microsoft by the end of it.

Interesting, the first language I learned was Lua, and I thought it was pretty nice when I eventually started using C#. That was after having tried the web-stack + PHP.

@@chralexNET Where I see it the most is Duck Typing and some of the functional patterns that get (ab)used in typescript and python. Most if not all of of which you can do in c#; you just have to be a lot more deliberate about it.

@@renynzea I had to lookup what the definition of Duck typing is. You're right it is something that gets used a lot in TypeScript. In C# I think you'd have to do something like use the "dynamic" type or maybe anonymous objects that happen to match each other's signatures at compile time, so they get merged into the same "anonymous" type. I guess using the "is variable"-syntax could also be described as Duck typing? (although probably not true duck typing if it has to be fully dynamic, because the object to either implement an interface or inherit from/extend a class.) It is cool that you keep track of these things, I'm currently at a job where I've probably seen some of the worst code in my entire career, so I can't think in terms of patterns just in terms of getting stuff done and fixed, at least I am not sure what those functional patterns you're referring to are.

@@chralexNET For duck typing in c# I would use interfaces; that is really all duck typing is -- an implicit interface. c# just requires it to be explicit. As far as functional coding goes, you can do similar things in c# these days with Func and Actions, extension methods, and method groups. The difference I have seen in typescript is it can be abstracted to the point where you don't even know what is being passed, or how the method is getting its data. Its just a method piping/currying into another method, which pipes/curries into yet another method. Makes my brain hurt. I like my problems hard and my code simple these days.

Lol. I'm sure I bring that line up if ever I cross swords with a C++ dev :) Thanks!

Twice as many pluses in half the space.

this is not dumb, this is actually true

That is literally why the # was chosen for the language name, though. It's a double pun.

Yeah, that also took my attention :)

maybe he meant IL in general - F#, VB, there was even a version of Pascal for .NET

He meant .Net. You can use other languages in .Net like visual basic, F#, c++ etc

Nice one - this is at least constructive and not based on knowledge from 20 years :). Recently there was also announcement that it will not make next C# release so we will still have to wait there. But there are ways in C# to handle this - I know it is not Discriminated Unions but really maintainable - not sure but maybe even Nick has a video on this actually.

Not as bad as Java but not great either

@@rodjenihm thank you for the reply. I've got another question: what's the best strategy for exception handling

I would say the Result Pattern.

@@PedroPabloCalvoMorcillo might be possible in C# since exception handling is not forced by the compiler (correct me if i'm wrong) but in java, not only the synthax is garbage but you are force to handle them

@@oumardicko5593 You're right, exception handling is not forced by the compiler in C#.

Right. My question as well

he probably meant to say "you can use other languages in .NET"

You can interop with other langs like Rust,Go or Python. Why anyone would do this, I'm unsure, but it exists, so someone must have found a use. Me personally, I run Bash commands from C#. Why? Because I can mutltithread Bash now 😊

​@@nicholaspreston9586you interop with c, c++, rust for performance.

Mostly for low level base libraries that are used to create multiple language specific wrappers. Like how the Kafka libraries for C#, Java, etc. wrap librdkafka which is written in C++.

C# being unreliable - Now thats definitely the dumbest thing I heard 😂

It is feasible. It's light and quick, there is even a rudimentary debugger. But tbh when I need to debug, I just use rider. I'd probably recommend vim plugins instead of neovim to most people (there's one for rider, vs and even vs code). Unless you really like being 100% in the terminal.

"C# is C++²"

That's what happens when you make every class and struct unsafe in your code base and make heavy use of pointers. Unfortunately, that happened to me ;-)

I heard one of my class mate says C# is frame work for C++ and I was like wtf

Which languages are suitable for startups?

@@Andrew-ci4gr visit hackernews / jobs or angellist / jobs to check what is currently needed. Js or python would be the safest bet

test reply

assffaa

FWIW I don't think that the distinction between compiled or interpreted is really useful these days, but CIL is bytecode run by a non-native virtual machine just as JVM. I don't know what your definition is, but that implies some level of "interpreted".

@@dschledermann Each method is compiled into native code the first time it's called.

@@louisfrancisco2171 right, so something that is between compilation and interpretation. And that's fine. There's nothing inherently better or worse about being compiled vs interpreted. Each offers some advantages and disadvantages.

There's a lot of settings regarding compilation and optimization. But anyway, if someone knows in which environment the application is going to be deployed up-front, they can just target that specific environment in their build and make native code to begin with. That is at least how I understand it.

Let me fix that for you. C# and Java are both Indian shit code from my experience. Maybe Copilot will help in the future.

​@@robrider838copilot was trained on shitcode, so don't expect it to solve that problem. 😁

"I really dislike working in Windows." - Agree... I work on a MAC and Linux in the past. Using VSCode and Azure Data Studio

@@jag497 hell yeah

"but, but, but strongly typed languages are slow! because they need to carry the type information!" 🤣🤣🤣 while in reality it is vice versa, dynamically typed language need to carry the type information

That was definitely more accurate until .Net Core 3.1 came out - where the argument was "don't use C# if in AWS." And honestly, I prefer Node or Python with Lambda rather than C# or Java just to not deal with compiled packages.

No there is openjdk

@@aj-jc4cv Yeah, but also no. Plenty companies do not want to go with open-source branch and stay currently in a limbo of not upgrading.

​@Balgoriusis openjdk is the reference implementation, oracle provide their own version of this plus their own optimised version. Even microsoft provide a build with security patches. Companies stuck on old java 8 legacy code will have to pay, enterprises will anyway, just as they pay database licensing etc.

I don't know much about this, but the new Java versions actually include lots of features C# got before Java. I only work with Java 8, which is painful at times What I really like is that some C# keywords are just syntactic sugar, e.g. required or init, because I can use them even in projects which cannot be upgraded to new .NET versions "But syntactic sugar is so dumb like omg" well then explain your explicit getters and setters, and the lack of safety that can provided by the compiler (required keyword)

And I've never seen a parent who named their kid Roger, doesn't mean they don't exist. Most of the enterprises weren't enterprises when they started out, yet Java or C# are their core technologies which means they did choose it. It also means they became successful companies with those languages.

I have never seen you read a book, therefore you must be illiterate.

I have. Does my anecdotal evidence cancel yours?

@@dominikotocan1348 JFC, the stats back me up too

@@7th_CAV_Trooper Sure, now go check some actual stats. Oops.

Kind of a weak argument, really.

why is that?

@@EHBRod13 perhaps, but PHP and Rust will get me by just fine without associating me with Microsoft, so that's that.

@@EHBRod13 perhaps, but PHP and Rust will get me by just fine without associating me with Microsoft, so that's that.

@@Philipicalt I've been a programmer for well over two decades, so I have a long history with the technology offerings from MicroSoft. MicroSoft has a tradition of making "alternatives" to existing technologies and then either abandoning it, bastardizing the existing standard or otherwise making life miserable. You may remember Silverlight or Internet Explorer or NTLM or ASP (before C#). C# is one such product as an answer to Java. It always ends up being annoying in some way. So, on principle I will not work with anything that is primarily controlled by or developed by MicroSoft.

Huh?

Trolling? If not: They are not even close. C# and HTML is not even comparing apples and oranges - It's like comparing a rainbow to the moon - completely different realms.

why?

@@Philipicalt Complicated as heck.

@@naughtiousmaximus7853 Was previously.

Yeah This one part needs to be worked on by microsoft , it is overly complicated while in other frameworks such as django is a breeze .