An instructional film made to a high standard with most of the content still relevant today on any motorship. The mood and focus of the crew members is well presented, and polished with a clipped British accent on the commentary. The RN knew how to make very good films.
We had to do more thinking than they show here. example, we were expected to know how to change courses and how to stop the swing of the ship when it approached the new course, etc.. Here the Captain instructed every move. It wasn't like that at all when I was a Helmsman. Perhaps it was because our wheel was on the bridge and not down below deck.
@@jerrylafever6549 Note that in the first demonstration, the Captain gave "wheel orders", but the commentary and the leaving-port demonstration also showed that "course orders" could be given. In the latter case the helmsman has that much more responsibility, as you say.
@Action Jackson Hey Shipmate, you know damn well there are deck seamen helmsman and there are master helmsman. Ever hear the words "Go to your stations, all the special sea and anchor detail"? Who do you think is the helmsman in those situations? What about unrep? You know better, it is the master helmsman...usually a well qualified Quartermaster. I have never seen the Conn tell a deck seaman to "Steer by Seaman's Eye" but I have seen it done with a master helmsman in the Panama Canal. I retired from the Navy after 27 years, most of it at sea...I have been by more buoys then you have been by telephone poles...
Used all most the same orders in my merchant navy days but we left the 'Sir' out.. And the 'wheel' was often just a little lever. even on a 300,000 tonner.. My Wife sailed with me a few times when I was a 2nd/Chief Officer.. She got her 'Steering ticket' on an 80,000 ton bulk carrier.. You had to do 10 hours total wheel time to get it . She wrote her name astern the first few goes.. but became a good helmswoman.. the certificate said : Has met the requirements laid down in Regulations the standards of competence specified in section ... and has completed a minimum of 10 hours steering in open waters and 10 hours steering in pilotage waters on a seagoing ship of 500 gt or more. Knowledge, understanding and proficiency in the use of magnetic and gyro compasses and the changeover from automatic pilot to hand steering and vice versa has been demonstrated. The seafarer can understand and acknowledge helm orders given in the English language in a clear and concise manner. Signature of Captain..
"She wrote her name astern the first few goes"... Is that a joke basically meaning "The helmsman was so awful, twisting this way and that, they practically wrote their name in the wash behind the ship" ? Just that I've never heard that expression before.
@@chroniclesofbap6170 Your interpretation is correct . it does refer to the ship weving about a lot , most people do it when they start off , you need to get the feel for the ship and how it reacts and that goes for every ship , they all behave differently , and again differently at different speeds . Its a bit of an art , you can stop to much weaving by putting on counter rudder . If the ship has swung to port you would put on starboard helm and as you se the ship start to swing you put on a little port helm , just briuefly and it should stop the ship on the required heading or very close to it
My late father did 21 Years in The Royal Navy, but the 'call of the sea' made him return to the merchant marine after his naval service. He never could get his head around the 'Civvie's' lack of proper command protocol!...
Some 30 years after this was made, I joined the RN as a seaman. The orders were even more formalised than this but it was largely the same, but we never just swapped the helmsman. We needed bridge permission to do that, and once a new helmsman took the wheel he reported to the bridge the course and speed, engine telegraph positions and revolutions, so that the bridge knew he had got it right. He also gave the bridge his rating and name so the OOW knew which crew member it was. We used an electronic intercom but the voice pipes were still there if needed. "Following the Lubber's Line" was really tricky during training but we got it eventually. There was a simple rule: If the course you want is to Port, then you steered to Port. If the course was to Starboard then you steered to Starboard. Eventually it became second nature.
Still amazes me that they could leave Oahu, sail straight for Kwajalein with no more than paper charts, observation, compass and a watch; then flip on the radar (first look outside due to weather in this case) and boom - there it was - exactly as expected. Respect.
My late father - WWII Royal Navy and service before then - spent some 3 years on Minesweepers/Layers in the North Sea and around Northern Scotland. He used to tell me how dedicated the young Matelots carrying out helm duties were. He used to say that as an instructor, he held in one hand a bucket (for the novice's vomit!) and in the other, a 'hank' of bread - so that the poor buggers would have something to throw up so as to not to damage their guts!
These videos are so instructional, so valuable material for a sailor's education. I wish I had been able to see these videos when I was at maritime high school.
When training at HMS St Vincent in 65 I scored 100% in two exams. Knots and splices and steersmanship. In August that year I steered an anti submarine frigate for 1hr including full speed manoeuvres. All steering was done by Giro compass.
#56 Many years ago, I was handling the "Wheel Watch" on the Lake Michigan Rail Road Car Ferries. Merchant Ship Orders are the same as given by the Navy. All orders repeated. I had a Wheel House view of the lake ahead and enjoyed the duty. I worked closely with the Officers and Captain. Before undocking, the Wheel was turned lock to lock until the alarm sounded. This was normal tasked. The Bow lookout checked navigational lights prior to undocking.
If they tell you to go down to the rudder compartment or laz and confirm that it's actually turning lock-to-lock, don't get in there with the steering gear. Instead, stand outside the compartment and watch the ram push and pull the steering arm (tiller). That way, you won't get smooshed. Premonition based on a nightmare i had recently saved me, bc nobody's going to hear you yelling "stop".
You are correct, the Tiller Flats has much machinery. I watched the mechanics, especially prior to entering tight navigational areas. Ship handling was a pleasure for me. I never bumped anything. Anchors Away!
I totally agree with you, and I seem to remember his face, it could be from a different training film but I think he could be an actor. Nonetheless, even in a training film I would have expected, as you said, some salty language. I couldn’t help smirking when the three stripper said “where’s your rudder”, I was expecting the AB to say something like “underneath at the stern” or “at the back, where do you think”.
@@martyspargur5281. If I hear anybody complaining about the price of cod I tell them that they want to sail in the winter to the North Atlantic off Iceland in the winter to catch their own. The waters around the British Isles can be very unfriendly. When I was a mere Boy Seaman and a small unit of the ship's company of a frigate based in Scotland, I was a member of the watch on deck for the Middle Watch (0001-0400) and I was detailed to do a spell as lifebuoy sentry. This involved positioning myself on the quarterdeck ready to throw a lifebuoy in the appropriate direction if anybody had been washed overboard. There was a full North Sea gale blowing and I was concerned because the deck level (freeboard) was only about 6 feet above the mean level of the sea. My fears about this were dismissed when the ship turned about and instead of heading into the seas we were now subject to a following sea. I watched as a wave grew bigger and bigger as it caught the ship up. I was terrified but wild horses couldn't have moved me from my station. I am still uncertain whether I was immobile through being frozen with fear or a sense of duty. I was calculating - if a gallon of water weight 10 lbs how many gallons made up this wave? I thought that a force of several tons was about to hit the ship. When the wave was almost upon the ship, I thought it was about 30 feet high, most of the wave passed under the ship and the stern rose. As the crest of the wave passed forward the stern sank into a trough while the bows pointed almost at the heavens. Being in a trough, all that I could see was water, mountainous waves rough and very cold. Nobody could survive for more than a few minutes in that sea even if they could divest themselves of their oilskins and addition clothing worn to keep the extreme cold at bay. I endured this ordeal for one hour and I still had concerns that a wave would envelop the ship. I was never so pleased to be relieved and I could make my way forward to join the rest of the members of the watch on deck huddled together round the funnel for warmth. Comfort in numbers.
Did this very job during my national service in 1970. Very tricky to keep the heading straight with a following sea - like when they were trying to land a chopper.
I always wanted to have a go at doing this, but sadly most ships today don't have an old-fashioned helm station like this, a lot of the newer jobs don't even have rudders, and you steer them using a joystick like in a video game. Still, even a small boat (I have a little sailboat myself), a lot of this can hold just as true, and at first I wobbled all over the place until I got the feel of it, the old timers call that "writing your name on the ocean".
Yeah unfortunately modern shipping got Airbus’ed at some point when it comes to how ships are operated and for a while azipods were all the rage. Though from what I’ve seen the azipod fad has died down a bit and rudder/shaft drive setups have made a bit of a comeback and many newer ships have a wheel, granted it’s a tiny and small wheel on a console but a wheel nonetheless.
Wow didn't know about 'steerboard' becoming 'starboard' and 'lowboard' becoming 'port'. I also liked the levity they used with 'nothing to starboard' and the danger being a mermaid on a rock. One thing the film didn't mention was the wheelhouse was a prime target for enemy fire.
This wold teaching videos use to be very common. You can learn a lot by watching them and see how the technology started. I watched on on the railroad and the locomotive and one on how they used to print news papers in the 1930. They were made for seniors in high schools to help them chose a perfection. That was when companies tried to attract young men into a life long job as some education was needed for industry. Not everyone went to school and graduated so those kids were more likely to get a job. A big percentage of children had to work the farms and never had more than a 5th grade education, Life was much more difficult to just get by and your children had to work, not go to school. Today school means nothing to kids they would just as soon be stupid and believe what they read on their iphone if they can read at all. My father who was born in 1915 had a little diary in which he kept track of days he was able to go to school and those when he had to work on the farm.
@reverse thrust 3 stripes , or "badges" each badge means 3 years good conduct, so a senior sailor of 12 years service, however they are not rank or ratings, you could be a 3 badge stoker (Able Seaman) but a 1 badge Leading Hand,, and theres many many more lol
Surly the “steering oar” was a “rudder” it performed the same function but was just fitted in a different location, and the “rudder” was just the next evolution in naval history, just as today some boats and ships don’t have a traditional rudder but movable water jets or propeller pods that move to cause a change in direction, again a new evolution in naval technology, it’s progress.
Progress isn't always a straight line. Rudders will be around for a long time still, putting azipods on every new vessel was a fad for a while but they are being more limited to cruise ships and specialized near-shore vessels these days. Rudders and shaft drives are just cheaper, simpler, and work good enough for cargo ships that don't need to worry about tight maneuvering in small ports with only a small number of tugs.
Can someone tell me what the fast speaking senior helmsman is telling the young guy at 5:50 after he says "Only when I instruct beginners like you" ? What I can understand is "Like to try......" and "You will never be able to.....if you .......to steer". I understand everything again the moment when he asks permission from the bridge for OS Parson to take on the wheel.
I think the senior helmsman says something like "like to try and handle the wheel?" and afterwards "you'll never be able to call yourself a sailor 'til you learn how to steer"...
KubaJ100, but what happens when the autopilot fails? In today’s modern world to much has been turned over to technology and when it fails the traditional skills, like helmsman, have been either degraded or lost, and would take an enormous effort to re-learn, if that would even be possible. In my humble opinion technology when it works is fine, but traditional skills should be maintained and passed Down the generations, otherwise we will be royalty screwed if we loose the technology.
@@allandavis8201 Dunno, that ww2 destroyer is itself technology. Can't stop progress, even if it means the loss of traditional skills. Not saying it is a good thing, but it can't be stopped.
@@allandavis8201 Useful to know the magnetic compass if you are unfortunate enough to have to take to the lifeboats . Learned the whole thing at Gravesend sea training school for the merchant navy , every last degree, forgotten most of the points now but the cardinals never leve you and if it came to it im sure the rest would come back
@@allandavis8201 last i checked, the U.S. Naval Academy still teaches Celestial Navigation with and without a Sextant and with or without a hyper-accurate chronometer. They tried doing away with it but they quickly changed their mind. GPS can be hacked, the stars can't. Sextants can get damaged, the sun and a decent watch, not so much.
Quite a few of the people I have worked with would be booted out of the service within about 24 hours in this situation since they tended to do what they wanted when they wanted and would therefore cause some serious damage to a bunch of stuff.
8( "hard" port/starboard has to do with the slack in the hawser. If you're not "hard" then the rudder may batter at the limit in eddies. A "fast" ship is attached to or quicker than the wind.
On these ships there is no hawser - that's 18th century technology. Instead the rudder is more-or-less directly connected to a tiller which is moved by a small, automatic steam engine. The wheel merely gives orders to that little engine. In case the automatic system breaks down, it is possible to wind the rudder over by hand, but that requires sending orders down the length of the ship.
When going ahead, the stbd propeller is turning clockwise when viewed from behind it. That means it is a "right-hand" propeller or aka a "Right-hand wheel". Slang for propellers is "wheel", and the name has nothing to do with the steering wheel in the wheelhouse or steering station. The port side propeller is turning anti-clockwise (in fwd) when viewed from behind the ship and is called a Left-hand wheel. If the ship has little or no way on, going slow or is stopped, the propellers have another function: When the video shows both going clockwise, one ahead and one astern, think of those propellers as wagon wheels or pump impellers. When they're both turning clockwise, they are essentially Taking water from the stbd side of the ship, and pumping it to the port side. That is pulling the stern to stbd as much as, or even more than, the way that the right side one is pushing water back, and the left one in the diagram is pulling water forward. They really don't have much leverage to actually Turn the ship since they are so close together, and so close to the middle of the ship. Thinking of the propellers as wagon wheels rolling the stern across an imaginary surface is an intuitive way to remember the effect they are having. So, if the ship is stopped, turning both wheels the same way, will "roll" the stern in that direction. Often as not, the order is to just spin the wheels in the same direction in order to throw the stern that way, but to stop short of keeping them turning long enough to put way on. If you get a little bit of forward speed out of doing it, and you don't want to go forward just yet, you can check that speed by backing up with the propeller that's on the side you're turning the stern away from. The exception would be if you don't want to slow down or back up.... Then it's ok to put the propeller on that side (the side you are turning the stern away from), in forward with the rudder also hard over to that side, and goose it for a moment. Just long enough to shove some water into the rudder but not long enough to pick up a bunch of speed. Shoving water into a turned rudder will swing the stern away from the side the rudder's swung towards. Alternating between shoving water against a turned rudder for a moment, and then rolling both props towards the way you want to swing the stern, is called back-and-fill. When turning the ship with this method, you will usually just go from forward to reverse, and back again, with the propeller that is on the rudder side, and practically ignore the less effective propeller that is not interacting with the rudder. The rudder is kept hard over the whole time, to save time and because you aren't really moving forward through the water. Not moving forward or backwards through the water means the rudder won't work against you, so no need to center or reverse it. You can back-and-fill with a single screw ship just as effectively, except turning one way will be many times easier than turning the other. If you only have one propeller, and it's a "right-hand wheel", then you want to make your turns to the right whenever you're in tight quarters. Not because a right-handed wheel pulls the stern to port when going ahead (it doesn't), but because it pulls the stern to port when in reverse. Using it in reverse will dramatically reduce your turning radius because it slows the ship at the same time. Finally, if you only have one propeller, and it is a right-hand wheel for example (most common), think about how it wants to lift the right side of the boat as it pulls the water on the stbd side down and across to the port side, where it's trying to fling it up as well as aft. Helicopters have a tail rotor to counteract this effect. Smaller boats are designed to counteract this "lifting of one side and pulling down the other side" of the boat" by making one side of the boat heavier. Oh, so that's why my boat has the steering wheel on the wrong side! You don't even have to look at the prop, if the steering wheel (helmswoman's weight) is on the starboard side, it's hopefully a "right-hand propeller" that will "back to port". Please remember, when you decide to show off in front of an audience how adept you are at back-n-filling, it's a FINE LINE between goosing the gas just enough, and Cowboy. Thank you.
I've never heard of a prop being called a wheel. It was a screw when I was a Helmsman in the late 60s and early 70s. Also, I've been a sailor for 50 years and everyone I knew called it a screw.
I had thought about the lack of leverage with the ahead/astern split... but never thought beyond "hmph, must be enough anyway." So this is very interesting, thanks! And as for the rest of it, wow it's big brain time!
@@Cous1nJack True, but this is a destroyer we're talking about (and not a large one either). The draft is pretty shallow; many sailing vessels would have a deeper keel purely to aid sailing qualities.
@@Cous1nJack In the film's illustration, the DD is passing through the harbour mouth wile the sailing vessel is passing close to the harbour wall. Both are thus in restricted waters, and a sailing vessel is assumed to have more limited manoeuvrability. It can't just put the rudder over or close a throttle, it must also (or instead) do complicated things with large pieces of wood and canvas aloft. Hence the DD's Captain correctly chose to give way with a simple engine order.
"Don't let me catch you making that silly mistake again" Such enthusiasm....There's something about the pitch & speed in the way he talks its so lazy. i wanna go into work and talk like him.
In light of the last few USN destroyer accidents, and the Norwegian frigate "self-sinking", perhaps it time to put the Conning Officer and the Lookouts back on the roof in the British-manner...At-;east when in close-quarters or in shipping lanes..
In US Navy movies when the captain enters the bridge someone calls out "officer on the bridge" or some such and everyone stands to attention. I don't know if this is RN practice. But is it true that the helmsman doesn't have to stand to attention?
@@williamsanders5066 What wasn't mentioned was wehn the QM took over the wheel to correct course, if the helmsman is changed over for any reason the bridge needs to be informed!
This is awesome this is how you're supposed to driver ship you can't get no better more knowledge famous video right here they need to have more of these videos I want to see a modern-day one with a cruise ship this is the s*** I'm kind of into
Flank speed is used only in emergencies or in times of extreme need, and is a command to redline the engines as fast as they'll go. Naturally this is hard on the machinery, so you only order "All Ahead Flank!" or the corresponding order of "All Astern, Emergency!" when you honest to God need it. On Royal Navy ships like this "Full" serves the same purpose as "Flank" in the USN, most orders for speed aside from "Slow" or "Stop" use the "Half" setting along with how many RPM's you want the screws to spin for a given rate of speed.
@@Debbiebabe69 Affirmative. Two peoples separated by a common language and all that. "Full" is usually used to denote maximum cruising speed over here, while "Flank" is the absolute maximum.
...and it's the same thing. The bow was where the crew would go to relieve themselves. In certain parts of the world it still is. Of course the modern versions give you a hole that's difficult to fall through, instead of just a rail to balance on. When you think about it, it's nice and private, well separated from anyone else, and if you're running with it, sort of warm and cozy.
What am I not understanding about Port and Starboard? Blowin' quite 'evy on the Starboard bow, says 3-badger at 9:33. Blowin' on our right bow says OD at 9:45. Tryin' to turn us up into the wind to Starboard, says he........you've gotta steer to Port to keep us on a straight course.(?) My similar misunderstanding is also at 10:41 where narration contradicts graphic. Wind blows bow to the left, narrator says to steer Port(?). Me, five ocean liners as a kid then 11 years in the mob, Electrician. Often wondered why it took so long to get 'ome. Indeed, how we ever even got there safely!
I had to watch several times to figure out that gunny wasn't contradicting himself....wind blowing from 80° or so (7points + change) from Right side into Starboard bow: with a deep fore foot, the bow might not blow to the left rather a cruiser or long counter stern may just cause the ship to weathervane the bow into the wind, because the immersed bow is biting in and the stern is making leeway. A ship with a shallow or with no fore foot (icebreaker?), the bow will blow off more easily. A ship with deep, sharp sections forward is the kind that might want to keep turning once you start turning, as the bow digs in, worse if the ship heels outward, and the stern is whipping around with lots of momentum. Other types may need more rudder for longer, but of course the rudder should be eased to center and often further well before you reach your new course. To me, ship with a deep fore foot will "shoulder" into the wind better than she will be running off in bad weather. If there's no forefoot, and especially with a skeg rudder or otherwise deep stern, they seem to do better running with it (if there's sea room). A deep bow can take over the steering when you have too much speed as you go with the wind. To little speed, and she won't respond to the wheel.
@@martyspargur5281 Thanks for that Marty. Has me wondering if this Instructional Film was aimed at ship handlers more advanced than Sprog OD's as implied by its tone. In other words deliberate inconsistencies to test their comprehension of past training. And there wus us Electrical toffs thinking that they simply had to keep lined up with the ordered course, like steering a car. But instead - more like Rally race driving - in snow!
19:16 Aircraft have propellers, boats and ships have screws. What's the difference between a boat and a ship ? You can put a boat on a ship, but you can't put a ship on a boat.
This is true...but...a boat is usually under 30 meters in length. A ship is greater than 30 meters in length, except for a submarine....they are always boats.
A screw is like a nail with a thread, used to screw two objects together. A propeller is used to propel a vehicle. See the relation? Besides, as I understand it, Royal Navy ratings have a tradition of using the wrong word; You don't have a "captain," you have a "driver." So even if "propeller" was the wrong word, which it isn't, it would still be the right word anyway.
A.C. B. ART not necessarily!! During field day we would/could put everything on one station while we cleaned the other station the one time I did it we were NOT at periscope depth and at a 1/3 bell
@@FlyNAA on the surface only the bottom of the rudder is in the water continuously where submerged all of it affects the water flowing past it BUT life sucks if the Captain wants to waterski and we have to break out the oars My first watch station was helm and planes and eventually I got to move aft as I was a nuke I also did half (30 days) a patrol as laundry queen washing everyone’s clothes which was a plus as I could get system checkouts when guys stopped by to pick up their clothes 2 heavy duty washers facing 2 heavy duty dryers
julius ceasar, under normal circumstances I think a correctional slap would have happened, but with the cameras rolling it was everyone on best behaviour, I haven’t heard one swear word, most military veterans and current service personnel will attest that normally, when not speaking to an officer or female (even though most females I served with could swear like troopers) every sentence had at least one cuss in it.
blast rock , and you know this how exactly? If you are or have served then in line with your comment that would make you stupid, so I don’t think you have even been near a recruiting office. So, let me see now, maybe you did apply to join the military but YOU were not intelligent enough to even be a K.P, or perhaps mummy wouldn’t let her little boy go out to play with the big boys, and maybe you are just a tin foil hat wearing armchair warrior, living in the basement of your parents house trolling so that you could get a reply to your comments and hoping that you could double your friend count to two(including mummy). Now I have given it to you with both barrels I will just point out that you can’t just walk into a recruiting office and be accepted, there are a barrage of tests to pass, English grammar, maths and science to name a few, mental and physical evaluations, and in some countries a physical test of fitness, and of course the basic entry level education standards, even a background check to make sure the military isn’t enlisting a psychopath, IF after all that you are enlisted you have to pass basic training, then trade training, then maybe you go to a unit, where, surprise surprise more training before you start doing the job you trained for, then throughout your service there are more and more courses you have to pass to even be considered for a promotion. In future engage brain before opening gob, nobody in today’s military are “stupid” and I resent your comment, denigrating the military is out of order, especially as one day you might need us to pull your ass out the shitpile.
Mikal , I think you would find Julius Ceasar was being sarcastic, because typically to reinforce a point that a junior rank didn’t understand or remember would have resulted in a smack, but only in the good old days, today you would have to jump through hoops and retrain the individual, physical acts like a friendly biff on the back off the head are totally banned.
Because the Officer of the Watch has a lot of other things to do including checking the ships position. Taking decisions on keeping clear of other vessels & drinking tea amongst other things.
I was a Helmsman on a Destroyer Tender. The Wheel was located on the bridge. I was right in the middle of the action. The Officer of the Conn would do his thing and we all, the navigator, helmsman, engine room signalman, the chart plotter. Interesting, the chart plotter had to learn to write backwards because the chart was made of clear plexiglass and in order for the Officers to see the chart clearly, he had to stand behind it and mark the other ships location by doing everything in reverse.
On merchant ships the wheel generally is on the bridge, for efficiency of operation. On warships, keeping the ship floating and working and fighting (in that order) under battle conditions is paramount. Hence why the wheel is located below the waterline and behind the citadel armour on a battleship, as shown in the illustration; a destroyer has no citadel, but putting it below deck instead of on the bridge still makes it less vulnerable.
I can’t imagine sailing without an autopilot. I remember a few times when the autopilot failed and wouldn’t reset on my tug and I had to hand steer for an entire watch. All I can say is that made for a very long night! If I had to hand steer all the time I think I might commit suicide! I certainly understand why ships and boats back then had such huge crews. I’ve heard of tugs that ran with 12 man crews instead of the 6 we have today.
A strange relic of the past that is now slightly redundant in language or should be for the following reason. I have never really seen an analogue compass with an "o" (oh) on their readings. e.. 360 equals Three Six Zero which is described in this video as Three Six Oh. All of the compasses have had seen have readings of "0" ( zero ) on them. It may seem trivial but in the present climate of digital readings and digital formats it is vitally important to know that there is a distinct world of difference in the two and confusion often reigns by incorrect language particularly when typing information into messages. Computers read the distinct difference and interpret exactly what is transmitted and the confusion can cause a mismatch that is critical.
Digital displays go to great lengths to show not only the current reading, but to show the 'trend' that a rotating compass card (it's actually the ship rotating not the card) shows naturally. Intuitively it is easier to steer by the ancient method using a magnetic card, than it is to steer with any of the modern bullshit digital substitutes. You still have to "read" a digital display, using a magnetic compass all you need to do is make a straight line from two shorter ones. Guess which method is ten times more tiring?
Marty Spargur - I agree that I find steering is easier with the analogue compass but I was brought up with that . The point I was making is the use of the term Zero instead of the term "o" makes for less confusion.
greg taylor - It was not a big issue then but is today since transposing information literally from analogue to digits is an issue with the proliferation of digital gadgets today. You may not have worked ina situation where it was a problem constantly but I have and it often cause misinformation to be sent and resulted in adverse costs to what should have be needless to be incurred.
