The Easterlings and The Haradrim - What was the difference? 

Asking this question got Pippin put in diversity training

I remember hearing that Tolkien had decided to write about the history of the Easterlings shortly before his death. If true, that is a shame, because I would love to know more about their history and see them as more than just the bad guys.

I always assumed that Tolkien patterned the Easterlings vaguely based on the Huns (Xiongnu) & Mongols , and the Haradrim (including the Corsairs of Umbar) being akin to the Barbary Pirates being based on Arabs & Berbers, and the Far Haradrim being Sub-Saharan African peoples.

I have the impression that the Haradrim were somewhat less corrupted by Sauron (and possibly Morgoth) than the Easterlings. A peace arrangement during the height of Gondor´s power meant that trade flowed between Gondor and Harad for a time, whereas no such cooperation with an Eastern polity is recorded in the appendices. It´s also noteworthy that the Haradrim were assaulted and enslaved by the late Numénoreans, a fate from which the East was sparred. The fact that the ancestors of the Haradrim migrated away from the uttermost East could hint at an initial rejection of Morgoth´s cult. And I think it´s also implied that Sauron (and Morgoth, too) spent millenia in the East, entrenching his corruption there, making it the heartland of his Imperial ambitions after he fled Mordor. All in all, I think the Easterlings are portrayed as the deadly archenemies of Gondor, whereas the relationship with the Haradrim is a little bit more complicated, due to the earlier exchanges between Men of the West and Southrons, and especially because of the colonization and mixing of peoples.

I personally think that the Haradrim are far better adept at desert campaigns. Their entire homelands screams of it. They may not be as good on the field as Gondor due to their lighter armor style derived from their home conditions. This puts them at a solidly disavantage compared to Gondor´s skill in methalurgy, and while they used gold and adorned themselves with gold and were rich, wealth isnt the same as military competence.

Can you imagine what the Haradrim think of Gondor? Like to them Gondor is this tiny little place surrounded on all sides by it's enemies, and yet wins victory after victory even against their god, Sauron. After the war of the ring this must have been even more bewildering, that in a might makes right world, where numbers usually make might, the lesser force by far utterly defeats their enemies so thoroughly as to kill their god, and make near extinct an entire species that rivaled them. Aragorn must have been viewed by the Haradrim in a similar light to how Sauron was thought of by the men of the west

Khand might be an interesting hybrid between the two, a somewhat organised kingdom of easterlings, more civilized than their northern brethen due to contact with Harad and possibly Mordor (Sauron liked order after all)

Thank you for the video. It's important to remember that these are giant regions with all kinds of peoples, mostly unknown. The issue is the ignorance about far away lands in the Gondorian and elvish source material we have access to.

To my mind, the Easterlings basically resemble the nomadic or semi-nomadic tribes that periodically raided into or invaded Europe throughout history. The Haradrim invasions were more like those of the Muslims although without the religious components. I wonder if Easterling tribes ever attacked Haradwaith or was Sauron's control enough to prevent that. In the later version where the Blue Wizards came to Middle-Earth in the mid-2nd Age, that could have been a tactic they tried.

Since you said you were interested in more comparison ideas, how about an analysis of the various groups of Umanyar and Moriquende? Green-elves, Grey-elves, coast elves, Silvan elves, barrel elves, oh my.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Easterlings had a variety of inspirations, including the Persians, Mongols, Ottomans, and Arabians, I don't think he had any one group of peoples in mind, where as the Haradrim strike me as Moors from North Africa, pirates, slavers, and at one point, conquerors of much of Southern Europe.

I do think the easterlings of the first age are just simply a totally different group of people than the easterlings of the third age, the only common attribute being them residing to the east of the people accounting the stories at the time. And I think this "mix-upp" was at least half intentional from Tolkien; the story imitates the collective legends of the real world that compound over time and it is only natural for these kinds of mix-upps to happen.

One question I always have wondered about Men of Darkness.. If they are numerous, would they be able to defeat Sauron if they hypothetically allied with Free People?

I would love a game or show that covers the mysterious inners of Rhun or Harad. So much potential there.

One of my favorite Tolkien channels

The east of middle earth is infinitely fascinating to me. And to hear that Tolkien had plans to write about the men of the east in detail before his death saddens me.

I think the idea that the Easterlings sucked at maintaining long campaigns does them a disservice especially when you consider what the people they're based on have done For example the cuman-kypchak confederation dominated the kyivan russ in a conflict that lasted nearly 200 years, the Mongols lead many successful conquests against the middle east China and eastern Europe creating the largest contiguous empire in history (Also it's important to note that, as stated in the video, everything we know about the Easterlings comes from the gondorians, so there's a chance that the Western chroniclers exaggerated and possibly even lied about them to make them look bad )

“Many of our truths we choose to cling to depend on our point of view.”

Harad - North Africa; Moors, Berbers. Colonized by Numenor (Romans) and later the Black Numenoreans whom I've always personally felt were meant to be Arabs. 1st Age Easterlings - Far East of Asia; Huns and Persians. 3rd Age Easterlings - Middle East to the Levant and the Caucusus; Mongols and Turks. The idea being that, at different points throughout history, all of these people either invaded or colonized parts of Europe (Western and Northern Middle Earth).

I always love daydreaming about what happened in the lands far to the east and south throughout the ages...

Probably the best Tolkien-themed channel on here, even considering it's "production value" is somewhat lower than other similar themed channels. It's info is top notch. I was just thinking that you should do a video on the difference between the various Easterlings of the Third Age who feuded with Gondor and the Northmen, and then the Easterlings of the First Age. I do think the Easterlings of the earlier Easterlings, are a totally different people akin to the Bree-men. After all, Eriador would be the East to the peoples of Beleriand. The Bree-men are also described as dark-skinned, but in the same way that the Welsh were "dark" to the English. (Tolkien also throws in some Celtic cues in the culture of Bree- most obviously, the name!).

Really appreciate you making these videos mate! Awesome work

Always delighted to see one of your videos! Thank you!

Another awesome video thanks for everything you do! I’m currently rereading the two towers and would love a comparison between the different Orc-holds of Middle Earth if there are any differences you can dig up! Keep doing what you’re doing! ❤

Very interesting video topics on this channel. Happy to see more this kind of videos! I found Easterlings and The Haradrim some of the most misterious and interesting things in Tolkien's world.

Great video

This video came out at the perfect time to help me develop my map, thanks man!

Love your videos man ❤️ Greetings from Vancouver 🇨🇦

This was another good video. I'm all for it if you have some more comparison videos that you feel up to making.

Love the content sir

AWESOME VID easterlings and southrons are very interesting topics.

I’ve really got back into Tolkien lore ever since playing Divide and Conquer on Medieval 2 TW

I really would enjoy more comparison videos.

Fascinating stuff, thank you. The Easterlings certainly seem to have taken some inspiration from Asian empires of old, with the Haradrim more akin to the Berbers and maybe even the Carthaginians due to the Mûmakil/war elephants.

Cheers from Toronto thanks for the video it made my day at work middle earth lore makes factory way better 😀

Great video Gandalf, I think you should bring out "what was the difference" videos on a more regular basis.

One thing I have never understood was how the West maintained a technological advantage over Sauron's domain, Sauron had two thousand years before he openly revealed himself to reconquer and reorganize his old territories and plan the next war. You would think he would do a Stalin and create his own five year (or in his case five century) to industrialize and urbanized his territories. He had the knowledge, he had the time and he had the necessary manpower and resources to do so, the fact that his entire army wasn't at least clad in mail if not plate and what armour and weapons they did have were outright called inferior to Gondor and the other western realms is mind boggling. I thought he valued efficiency? Barbarian hordes are not efficient, well trained and equipped armies are efficient. It was like he was purposely making it harder for himself to take over the world.

Pretty darn good.

Easterlings; based on Mongols or Scythians Haradrim; based on Arabs, Persians, Phoenicians, etc.

Always answering the questions that the fans would like to know Lord Darth Gandolf

Damm good video 2 thumbs up

Thanks for this topic! I wonder how Khand fits into this. Also if Rhun was basically a vast expanse of plains with nomads, it makes me think there’s a distant Middle Earth version of India and China somewhere out there, perhaps even resistors of Sauron but just isolated and under siege by all sides, and not even knowing of potential allies like Gondor (or vice versa).

Thank you for this video. You clearly put a lot of hard work into creating it. As someone who is new to Tolkien’s lore, keeping track of the different species, races, and civilizations in his world is challenging. This video is very helpful. Thanks again.

But these were Men, Proud and Valorous. They neither gave nor asked quarter. I always liked the Southrons and Easterlings and wish we'd gotten more on their cultures and history.

11:19 just FYI, in the winter you 11:19 camp in the river valley because it's warmer.

It might be nice to have a video comparing the free note memories of the third age to the black numinoriums of the third age.

Do we know anything about Elves in the lands East and South of Mordor? Or aren’t there any?

We've finished with the Haradrim Palace!!!

Good job, Joe! You good, Joe. Good.

A comparison betwen Nargothrond and Gondolin

Did the Easterlings have cannons or any fire weapons or is that just a Age of the Ring video game thing?

Why didn't my notifications tip me off to this new video? Aww...

Easterlings and Southrons. What's to question? They dress differently, they fight differently, they come from different regions. It's pretty clear.

The Rhunrim and the Haradrim

To me it feels like the Easterlings where the Huns and the Haradrim where Arabian or Persian, no offense to anyone off course, but coming from a cultured man like Tolkien it really seems like it. The Huns where poor and pillagers, built empires vast but that didn’t last long. The Persians,Arabians, middle eastern countries with all their gems and riches normally where poorly equipped compared to the Europeans but won long wars in the long term and where always fighting with the crusaders for example.

Diverent peoples that is the diverents

But Hirgon told us about many kings riding both of east and south

What if the 7 father's of the dwarf's awakend in Mount cundabad and what if all the elves went to valinor to be protected by the ainur that didn't follow melkor same fan fiction What if the 5 order of the istari arrived in middle earth in 1000 of the third age What if Gondor kept umbar horondor What if the kin strife didn't happen What if the Red arrow dident arrive to the éothead

We only saw sauron's/mordor's/minas morgul's uruk-hai orc armies once,and that was in the year 2475.We never saw them again.Why?

Can you talk about barrow wights?

Honestly this is what a new middle earth show should be based on, there’s a lot of untapped potential for stories and lore in these lands imo o

Harad was North Africa or Syria, because it shared that Roman/Numenorian heritage. Easterlings are weird cuz they are from a different time period they're really Sarmatians or Goths

What was the destiny of Dior son of Beren and Luthien is he counted as a man or elf or he is in the limbo?

I think it's worth noting that logically gold on armour will only be gold plate: gold is too soft and heavy to be otherwise useful in armour.

Imagine an Asian or oceanic inspired easterlings. Imagine the maoris worshipping sauron through canabilism… (I think I spelled cannibalism wrong….sorry)

You've got historical stand-ins for most of the big name Asian invaders into Europe: Particularly Huns, Mongols, and the Seljuks and Ottomans.

Rhun always have a mixed vibe of Persian/chinese/mongols the cross roads between Central Asia and east Asia

More comparison videos? Please do Hobbits and their distant evolutionary cousin the Balrogs.

There is a place called Haradh in Saudi Arabia...

Algormancy!

This seems to be a little bit biased against the Easterlings. Nevertheless I had to laugh about the "in all their infinite wisdom they camped in a river valley..." 😂

Was sauron the dark lord of ALL of middle earth? Were thier wars in his name in the far far south and east? Were there other maiar dark lords maybe in other continents that we didn't hear about or is it just sauron?

The Easterlings and Haradrim are one of my favorite topics about Tolkien👍👍👍. Who do you prefer?

And Khand?

Easterlings are Middle-Eastern (wielding scimitars) and Haradrim are North Africans (riding elephants). The ‘Men of the West’ are obviously Europeans.

I heard he based them on Ethiopians (the men of harad) with Arabic flavor splashed on top

Welp I Think My Ancestors In Middle Earth Is Just Chilling in An Island ( Im Indonesian)😅

The movie gives the opposite impression, the Easterling armor seem more developed

I would rather you refrain from more comparison videos. I feel like if you take that step, it will become easy for you to just repeat your past videos for an endless stream of content, making you just like all the other Tolkien RU-vidrs, which I would hate, you are my favorite.

Easterlings are from the East and the Southrons are from the South

thats like whats was difference between saracens and mongols? thats the same here

Whats the difference between Asians and Africans?

Variags from khand

I think the Easterlings are just an amalgamation inspired by everything from the Ostrogoths to the Mongols. Just like the Haradrim's roots include everything from the Levant to the heart of Africa. After all, Gondor has the byzantine vibe.

khand

Simple. One is inspired by chinese Empire, Tartars, mongols, and nomads, the other one is based on Arabs and africans. Easy to see. Haradrim were less evil and conquered by Numenor, with Blue Wizards trying to help them, Easterlings were more evil and made deals with Sauron freely and attacked dwarves of Erebor. Tolkien took inspirations from Real world, its a shame he did not explore more regions of middle Earth ans its history. But I think its better that way. If we were given more details, like in Game of Thrones or Shadow Realms, the mystery and magic of middle Earth wouldnt be the same. Lord of the Rings reads almost like a fairly tale, modern fiction reads more like historical events in magical worlds.

One is from the East and the other is from the South.

one is from the east and one is from the south.

I wonder if the stereotypes of "wild brutish men from the east" (see: Mongols) and "black men steeped in gold" (see Nubian or Chad Empires) showcased how little JRRT actually knew of these places on Earth. Sure, he was a linguist, but his forte was Germanic tongues, and so that's what he studied. Hence, why Cardolan, Gondor, Rohan, etc is so similiar to Western Europe - the source of Germanic language and people - and why anywhere other than that is so.... vague and nebulous.

The creation of Harad: Tolkien was inspired by (ancient) AEthiopia for the creation of this people in his mythology: >"Christopher Tolkien linked the Haradrim with ancient Aethiopians. In an interview from 1966, Tolkien likened Berúthiel to the giantess Skaði of Norse mythology, since they both shared a dislike for "seaside life". Additionally, Tolkien scholar Tom Shippey stated in reference to the 'black men like half-trolls' passage from The Return of the King that Tolkien was attempting to write like a medieval chronicler in describing the Rohirrim's encounter with a Haradrim: "[...] and when medieval Europeans first encountered sub-Saharan Africans, they were genuinely confused about them, and rather frightened. >Much of Tolkien's influence for Harad and the Haradrim came about from his essay Sigelwara Land, in which he examined the etymology of Sigelwaran (and the more usual form Sigelhearwan) - the Old English word for Ethiopians." The people of Harad are black, tall, fierce and valiant. There is thus a potential for worldbuilding the culture, traditions and mythologies with a hint of North African civilizations and an homage to the "unknown" myths of sub-Saharan Africa About the peoples of the east - Rhûn, Khand and Variags. Tolkien said he was inspired by Asia (China, Japan, etc): >"When asked in an interview what lay east of Rhûn, Tolkien replied "Rhûn is the Elvish word for 'east'. Asia, China, Japan, and all things which people in the west regard as far away." In an early versions of "The Hobbit", Bilbo's speech about facing the "dragon peoples of the east" had an reference of China and the Hindu Kush: >"In the earliest drafts of The Hobbit, Bilbo offered to walk from the Shire 'to [cancelled: Hindu Kush] the Great Desert of Gobi and fight the Wild Wire worm(s) of the Chinese. In a slightly later version J.R.R. Tolkien altered this to say 'to the last desert in the East and fight the Wild Wireworms of the Chinese' and in the final version it was altered once more to say 'to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert'." >History of Middle Earth - The First Phase, "The Pryftan Fragment", p. 9

1. Didn't Sam talk about black skinned people who'd ride on oliphants without using a troll comparison? He had read about them at Bilbo's house. I think he asked Smeagol if he had seen them. In the very good German translation (Tolkien wrote a translation guide and used it at this first and also was in contact with the translators as he spoke German), the name Sam used is Schwärzlinge which would literally translate as Blacklings. 2. I read somewhere that the Bree people are (partly?) descended from the one group of 1stAge Easterlings who did not betray the good humans and elves and thus their warriors fought side by side with them against the forces of Morgoth. If we look at how Tolkien describes the Mannish Bree Folk (I mean, the Bree folk also contains Hobbits), they don't fit with neither Dunedain nor the Northerners.They are shorter, stockier etc. If someone knows better, please enlighten me. 3. Return of the King already begins with a short demographic explanation of Gondor and it clearly mentions that several regions are the result of mixing Numenorians with different, somewhat shorter and darker groups.

Gotta love the implicit racism in just about all the descriptions of these "men of the South" and "men of the East". Tolkien surely was a man of his time.

Mongols and Arabs, pretty much.

We all know the barbarians they were based on. We all know Aragorn's "men of the west" speech is also appropriate for what's currently happening to Europe.

Easterlings are from the east, and the Haradrim are from the south.

What’s the difference? It’s harad to say…

Racism was very real in the '60s I'm sorry to say. Even C.S. Lewis in The Horse And His Boy makes very difficult reading.

"free peoples of the west", is that a Joke?🤣

Diference? One is a mongol The other is a arab

I'm getting some heavy Tartarian vibes from these Easterlings!