The second I wrote that on the script I thought to myself: "Wait, that doesn't sound quite right." But I decided to keep it in because I also thought it was funny lol
Everybody's worried about Fulgrim when clearly Fabius is the greatest wild card in the 40K Galaxy and now he has Alpha Primus Gene seed... Fairly soon some Primaris Space Marines are going to get destroyed. Fabius will combine that Gene Seed with his new man and make his own version with all the extra touches he's known for. Addadon will be begging him for chaos corrupted versions and while Fabius may comply in the beginning it's much more likely that he will use the opportunity to undermine Chaos and the Imperium. Not to mention it's really the secret for him to finally fix his own body and gain even more power. Theoretically Fabius could carve out his own little section of the galaxy while building armies and he won't need 13 chances when he finally decides to take out everyone. That is a man with a plan. Gene Seed from all 20 chapters? He could clone the two missing ones. Even though nobody knows what their special abilities were or their capabilities, Fabius of all people would want to find out. That's the clones you should be worried about. Fulgrim was given to Trazyn as easily as handing him a business card for future relationships. Trazyn has a collection of everything unique that he has been able to acquire. Want to bet he has some ancient Necron DNA? You think the Necron dynasties have Civil wars right now... Wait until the spider decides that he needs all the factions truly occupied. If anyone can figure out how to corrupt even such outrageous monsters as Tyranids this is the man that would figure out a way or at least try to do it. That's what's so obvious why is more not being put into trying to figure out how to get the Tryanids to attack each other the way you can fool other hive mind insects. They operate through the warp and The Emperor can't do anything about it? That seems like a plot hole waiting for someone to answer at their convenience. If Fabius wanted power he has so many ways to quickly stretch the Imperium so thin. Everybody forgets about the sleeper cells on hundreds maybe thousands of planets of his "New Man" waiting to be activated let alone the previously uninhabited planets that he has seeded with them. Other than Tyranids the hidden empire Fabius has built within the realms of chaos and the Imperium will be the greatest threat in the galaxy if he ever pulls the trigger. Oh and he will because I see a hell of a lot of action figures being sold and we all know the business model drives the lore unfortunately. Still these aren't some kind of crazy 40K conspiracy theory type things. I've analyzed that galaxy as it is my favorite science fiction and when I go through threats Fabius has a lot in common with Cypher as nobody can guess their true motivations but it is sure to only benefit them at least with Fabius. What they have in common is no one is safe when they want something. Cyphers true identity is another thing that will change everything as they have hinted at every possibility. If they do it correctly it should shake everything to the core. As it will be someone most likely that had more than one conversation with The Emperor and got out of those cells underneath the palace in a completely different version than the book where he admits he could be lying about everything. Good book though.
Loyal Fulgrim/Emperor's Children are probably my favorite Primarch/Legion. Though to be honest, what Primarch is my favorite might vary a lot. I like a lot of Primarchs for completely different reasons.
I don't care for the Emperor's Children in 30k, they only got interesting after istvaan. The 40k EC are way more compelling and need to be extended. I want another Chaos army, not more Imperium posterboys.
I think that the Emperor's Children are a tragic tale, but made more so by their problems BEFORE they got corrupted by Chaos. Their inability to maintain humility while pursuing perfection meant they were already arrogant and cruel before they fell. If it had been a totally out of left field change, where one day they were all the Knights of the Round Table and the next they were snorting human remains, it would've been weird. Instead, Chaos seized on something that most of them were already falling prey to and expanded it a hundredfold. With the exception of Fulgrim, who was holding a chaos corrupting instrument in his very hand, the rest of the legion COULD have lived up to the better aspects of their natures, and sought perfection by being good, even great men by focusing on morality, dignity, and kindness, but instead sought "more" instead of "better". They abandoned their traditions of looking out for and leading Imperial Army detachments to focus on "How do I be .1% better with a sword?" and thereby lost much of what made them great to start with. They remind me of a number of "wunderkind" and "prodigies" I've known or read about who became rather nasty pieces of work both from the pressure they had placed upon them and the hubris their achievements made them feel. Also, I've always thought noise marines were even more nightmare fuel than most possessed marines. Yeesh.
Well, if I had to be honest, I love Crusade Era Emperor’s Children, they are one of my favorite Legions alongside the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves. However, not much of a fan of what they turned into even if that was a natural consequence of their fall from grace. The tragedy of the World Eaters is that of a child smothered in the crib before he had the chance to reach his potential. The tragedy of the Thousand Sons is that of a child who kept playing with matches despite being told not to repeatedly. The tragedy of the Blood Angels is that of a son who lost his father and has to live with the trauma forever. The Emperor’s Children on the other hand? They were the exemplars. They were the ones who showed us the heights humanity could reach and the honor we could have even in a galaxy that hates us, that a better future was possible and we could reach it. And they became the exact opposite of everything they ever stood for. A complete mockery of their dreams and ideals. That is what makes their tragedy all the greater because they were at such lofty heights and they fell so low. I would say their tragedy is one of the greatest if not the greatest.
I loved the Emperors Children as loyalists. Thankfully Cawl has given them a second chance as the Sons of the Phoenix. Now if only Bile could recreate his true father one more time to lead them.
Thousand Sons and Death Guard both are the most tragic to me. Their Primarch tried to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal and then the legion got wacked and pushed into Tzeentch's clutches. And the other gave itself to Nurgle out of a life or death despair 😔
If I heard the World Eaters were coming, I'd be fine. Sure, I'm gonna die. But the Night Lords are going to skin me by the Emperor's Children will do horrible things to me. And the Dark Eldar will do horrible things to me FOREVER.
I mean… If you were alive in the Imperium, you likely wouldn’t know the difference between a World Eater, or a Night Lord, or an Emperor’s Child. Their names and lore are not common knowledge throughout the Imperium. If you’re even lucky enough to know that the approaching Astartes were traitors, you’d just know you‘re about to die. The flavour of that death would be something you’d just learn as it’s happening.
I absolutely do believe that the tragedy of the Emperor's Children is that they lost so much. I think that part of the appeal of the Perfect Clone is that people want to see them saved, given a chance to become what they were meant to be. So many of them didn't mean to fall at all. This not to absolve them of their actions once fallen to Chaos - but isn't it still just possible, maybe for a handful, maybe even for one Child of the Emperor to find his way back into the light? That's much more interesting than any contest of extremes could ever be.
Absolutely. I've also mentioned something similar on my video about Fulgrim. One of the main problems with Chaos is their severe lack of nuance, because it transforms every character corrupted by it in a caricature of themselves and their vices. I love Crusade Era Fulgrim because he was truly noble and wished the very best for humanity, even though he did indeed have a massive ego. Now the only thing left is the ego, he has nothing else. In my view, that makes him much less interesting.
@@RedHierophant23 The argument could be made that a piece of Fulgrim's soul made its way into the Fulgrim clone. The piece that was noble and wanted the best for humanity, unfortunately with Trazyn having him on ice, who knows if we'll ever see that.
If GW were more nuanced towards its writing towards all its characters, what they could make that would be WAY more credible is to make these EC that want to go back to The Imperium to attempt it by THEIR OWN EFFORT, without depending of any original or clone Primarch. That would make their struggle more worthy. But chapter, legions and so forth are SO focused on Primarchs and things like that... Oh well. I just trying to suggest something better for some individual characters for a Legion that, frankly, I would rather see it loyal to Chaos and against the rotten Imperium anyway! 😂
@@DB8ed We'll never see it sadly, apparently the guy behind the concept doesn't work with GW anymore and I doubt they'd bother anyways. GW is too lazy and selfish to ever bring Clonegrim back, he's gone gone and Trazyn sure as hell isn't letting him out for nothing either.
I would say the Iron Warriors seem like a tragic legion too. Men who devoted themselves to the brick and mortar of the Imperium, who took every construction and siege endeavor that was given to them no matter how mundane or dangerous and did them to the best of their abilities, who were never appreciated by their brothers or seemingly by their emperor no matter how integral their accomplishments were to the heights that the Imperium attained, and ultimately revolted against a system that would never give them the respect that they had earned through blood, sweat, molten iron, and soot diluted tears. It sounds a lot like today's working class if you really think about it.
Clonegrim retruns and takes command of the sons of the phoenix, and finally slays lucius for good by killing him the same way corvus killed his own mutated sons, through eyes filled with tears.
@@Goblinhandler Old Fulgrim was, we don't know nearly enough of Clonegrim or what he feels or how he acts to know if he got that from the original. It's entirely feasible that the clone would use a preexisting weapon rather than sitting down to forge a new sword. But also, if he did use a sword he made then he'd turn into Lucius as just having pride in what you've made is enough to trigger the curse if what you made killed him.
I think by far the biggest aspect of their tragedy is how they are remembered now, even by the fandom. Fulgrim now is just a comically simplified evil version of himself that doesnt even feel like the same character. And the legion just gets gay jokes made about it. I wish they could get a chance at their full potential, maybe if they continued the Clonegrim plotline... They dont need to change the setting, they would be a small group, i just want to see them be a shining example of what humanity can be, even if they arent super important in the grand scheme
I hate a lot of what I see out of Emperor's Children and they're my favorite army. Too many easy gay jokes (I'm a Mongol, btw, so the Jaghatai dig just comes off needlessly ignorant with a side of backburner primarch) and not enough emphasis on their ego driving them insane. I'd love to see how their obsession with superiority fuels a Homelander-esque downward spiral. Then again, they brought back King Auteur just in time for the UK to slap sanctions on itself, so part of me just says "fuck em, buy Gunpla instead." Maybe GW will make new Noise Marines next decade.
Damn. Another channel going with this voice??? Dude your content is actually good. Maybe use a different voice so you stand out cos I think you could make it. Like this, you're just coming across as a copycat channel. Anyway, that's just my opinion/advice. Use it, don't use it, it's your call.
I've experimented with a lot of different voices (even made some myself) and this is the one that I enjoyed the most by far. That being said, I do have some projects which will require the use of multiple different voices and stuff. I do see where you're coming from though and I appreciate your feedback a lot. There will be some changes in the future, but there's a lot of things I need to figure out and understand at the moment, so it might take a while.
My thoughts are: EC chaos space marines are utterly terrifying as antagonists because of the simple awful and depraved things done buy worshippers of Slaanesh. I listened to an audiobook "All the gods are dead" which documents a slaanesh invasion of a world and every act of depravity made the horror so much worse.
I like to think that Fulgrim is still posessed by a Daemon. I think his fall is very well written, he slowly goes down the depravity rabbithole in part because he seeks perfection for humanity, and thinks trying a bit of everything is his duty, but in part thats also an excuse that covers genuine depravity. Then at the end, after telling himself that all those desires were his subconcious and not the Laer blade, he has a singular moment of real weakness and gives in, sealing his fate. Hes not a perfectly stalward primarch like Dorn, but he also isnt a full on traitor like Horus, hes a good one that had a moment of weakness and failed. But his Daemon version is just comically evil in a way that he wasnt, even during the heresy. While others retain their character, Mortarion is clearly the same character, Angron might be a mindless butcher but he already was on that path before the heresy, Perturabo retains his personality aswell, and Magnus literally had his soul shattered, so it makes sense that hes pretty much crazy... Fulgrim on the other hand, turned into a Daemon in the most conventional way, yet he lost all his personality besides the ''narcissism'' that he doesnt rly display during the great crusade but is atributed to him because of his looks and character archetype.
I still believe that daemon primarch “fulgrim” is really just the demon that possessed fulgrim using his name to spit on him after all he perfected fulgrim. Totally something I feel like a slaneesh demon would do, also if clonegrim is still canon then it would all but probably would reveal that the daemon primarch fulgrim isn’t fulgrim rather the demon in laer blade using his body and name to greater perfection then “fulgrim” ever did in its eyes
It'd be nice to see fulgrim, who is supposed to be the pinnacle, manage to retake his daemon form back from the laer blade, and then turn his legion against the great game for tainting him, making his army a lesson of rehabilitation.
@@bloodfest8510 tis not rehabilitation hammer, but Warhammer. Also Fulgrim says he pushed the demon out and it's actually the demon trapped in the portrait and not him and he's all down for the perfection and depth of experience in the embrace of chaos.
@@burtskurtexactly, fulgrim was the most depraved primarch after curze. Idk where some people get the idea that he was a noble soul. I guess it's wishful thinking which i kinda get. But he was always self centered primarch who sought perfection wherever he could
i love both traitor and loyalist emps children. They make each other whole and the fall is very palpable. Both has awesome aesthetic. They are definitely one of the top 5 best looking legions and in the top 3 best for me.
Trauma can beget projected trauma a a way to assuage pian. This universe and the imagined 40k universe. Seems to say so much about global current as a pointer to the future. I often wonder if 40k is based on a far-flung future from the Jack Yeoville books? Route 666, Demon Download ect. Alone, they set a scene for underhive life.
To be honest i always imagined that being captured by the emperor's children would be WAY worse then being taken by the dark eldar. I mean, the dhukari does all this shit to avoid slaanesh by indirectly worship it with suffering. Imagine what the monsters that not only openly worships slaanesh but gets blessings, daemons and warp powers to help making the suffering even worse. The dark eldar tortures the body. The emperor's children tortures the soul.
I mean... Dark Eldar will toss your ass in a clone vat and make you immortal to torture forever without end, Emperor's Children will kill you body and soul and then snort your screaming soul dust for the fuck of it, it could be argued that dying forever is better than being tortured forever.
@@boanoah6362 yeah because when the dark eldar clone you, your soul dosent clone back because no edar would waste a soul stone on a mon'keigh. Plus their cloning dosent work like that and uses extracted fertilized womb eggs that are put in a growth accelerating cocoons. Its also really expensive so unless you personally pissed off a archon so much he is willing to go THAT far to toture you. You be "fine"
🤍⚪ I'm really curious. Could Loyalist Fulgrim, seeing that he only had an army of 200 Space Marines, as an act of humility, rename his Legion the Sons of the Phoenix?
so how does this video make me think they are worse? it's just another explained video you made it sound like you're doing some deeplore or short stories of examples of their depravity.
Learning the details of their early development, It almost makes me wanna take my Legions Imperialis Marines and paint them up as the very loyalist Emperor's Children and Luna Wolves to represent them as they were and simply use them to crush anyone playing solar auxilia exclusive armies.
@@TheTexasDiceIdk i like the 30k version more. Not when they were just good but when the corruption started, the kakophoni were unleashed etc 40k emperors children are just messed up lunatics unless i'm missing something
There fall was preventable, after the Demon took over Fulgrims mind on Istavaan and pledged the Legion to Horus, Fabius Bile broke the Demons will and allowed Fulgrim to retake control of his body. Fulgrim than Chose to still follow Horus.
You want tragic, then look at the Ultramarines. Damned to be the most boring poster boys with schittie hair cuts and one of the best arrsse kisser primarchs ever seen in the imperium.
Odd introduction for the World Eaters/War Hounds, considering that in the current lore they're rather depicted as having been planned as a kind of a paladin type of legion. I would definitely argue that they got shafted the hardest and three times too. First when Angron was found, second when they started putting in the butcher's nails desperately wanting to be accepted by their primarch and third time when they fell to chaos. They fell from honorable noble warriors with allegedly the ability to sense feelings and emotions and take away pain from others to just raging berserkers. They had a full 360° turn and moonwalked into their polar opposite. The Emperor's Children on the other hand are still on their original path chasing continuous improvement. They just flew past what they thought their goal was, because didn't really have a goal nor loyalty to anything but their desire to improve.
If I may ask, will you be covering some of the Alternate Heresy fanfics sooner or later (namely the Dornian Heresy, Roboutian Heresy, and the more recent Lionel Heresy)?
In what way? Are we talking why the became traitors or Daemon Primarchs. Also in the book Godblight Mortarion was told by the emperor that redemption could be achieved. Interested to hear your opinion why you think that those three cant be redeemed.
We are talking about them already being twisted long before the heresy. Fulgrim has always been an a-hole. Lorgar was already a religious zealot, and Mortarion was always a bitter small man who blamed the emperor for saving his life claiming that he "stole his kill" they are unredeemable because - even before they turned traitors, they were always a hopeless case. @@JS-mu9qd
@@GamingSpoiler Ah interesting. I can't say much about them from their heresy time since i only know bits through videos. That's why i started reading the horus heresy yesterday. Thanks for the explanation.
music.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-N1QLfH1YQb0.html&si=GMArt3jpGhiGvWY7. In my opinion, “what could have been”, especially in the case of “what almost was” such as the classic tragedy of Romeo and Juliet is the bitterest tragedy.
Thousand Sons, being evaporated and entombed in to their own armour, living for eternity as a slave yet can't die, is the worst. The Thousand Sons are happy AF, engaging in depravity and murder. I can't disagree more.
How does that old saying go it is better to loved and lost than never to have loved at all? Meaning its better to have somthing and lose it than never have it on the first place Hence why the night loads are the worst off, they never had anything bar some rare examples like sevetar chocking the dark angle guy.
I think everyone loves to hate the traitors especially Fulgrim… what I have noticed in my 3-4 years of absorbing 40k lore is that the traitors seem to be a lot more human then their counter parts. Seems to me they are given into their vices , obsessions , grudges etc.. don’t get me wrong the loyalist have traits that are human too but it’s the better part of humanity and great deeds and accomplishments that we identify the loyalists with and not all of us can relate to these great deeds. We all know disappointment, betrayal, greed and longing… these weaknesses humanize the traitors more so then than their glowing godly brethren. Maybe it’s just me , but it’s a whole lot easier for me to relate with the traitors point of view then the loyalists. Then again I’m the guy who always rooted for the hero , but secretly held my breath that the villain would win the day. The Emperor Protects…
