Don't let dirty geopolitics and fossil fuel industry get in the way of what humanity truly needs. Well done CATL and all the other innovative Chinese companies.
"Dirty geopolitics" you've really drank the Chinese kool aid - it'd be a disaster for Western economies and jobs if we entirely offshored automotive and energy storage production to China, it'll devastate industrial communities that are already suffering (e.g. Wales, NE England, Mid-West America, Germany... the list goes on) - hence some pushback is warranted.
@@gustavoramirezdiaz1347 No one outside of China is getting anything close to the specs on CATL and BYD's LFP batteries. Even some Teslas in the US have those batteries so you can't say it's all fake news.
Had the pleasure of visiting the CATL booth at EES Europe too and if these performance levels are indeed true then it's mind blowing. It just shows how far ahead the Chinese battery giants are compared to the ROW!
Well, it helps that they've had control of the patents for LFPs! When the West was asleep at the wheel, China was actually breaking ground. Sadly, alot of the money in the West is going into solid state and other related technologies that will only get more expensive. Which means China will probably end up making all of the important breakthroughs with sodium ion as well. Because they understand that the problem isn't making denser batteries in general, its maker cheaper batteries perform better,
@@patreekotime4578 true, too much focus on solid state that realistically will only be reserved for luxury high end vehicles eventually whilst China dominate the mass market
@@davidbeeston8833 Solid state *may* have a place in aviation, but I doubt it in the long term. Fire safety is an even bigger issue in airplanes than in cars. I suspect there will have to be a whole new branch of batteries to handle that use case. But for motor vehicles, LFP and sodium ion look like the actual future. The investment bro types love solid state because it requires more expensive metals. But my suspicion is that if the speculators drive prices too high they will squeeze the industry right out of them. Which may be the only way we finally abandon battery tech that relies on them.
@@patreekotime4578I suspect investors like solid state because higher end products offer higher profit margins. They have likely all but given up on making a good margin on LFP batteries given the lower cost and the dominance by China.
Yes, but realistically CATL will do most of their business directly outside of the auto business. The whole thing about Tesla taking on the world as an energy provider is 9000% bulls**t - they are literally just packaging and reselling CATL and Panasonic product.
@@mnomadvfx Megapack 3 will allow direct HVDC connection, eliminating substations. Autobidder makes millions in arbitrage for the owner. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
The problem with all these BESS solutions in the UK is that they need planning permission. There's one been proposed about 10 miles from me and the NIMBY's are at it again! It'll be mired in planning disputes (and potentially refused) for 10 times as long as it would take to actually build. We are stuffed in the UK with the fundementals for Energy Transition. People don't want Super Grid upgrade pylons, offshore windfarm cable landing stations, windfarm grid connections sites. It's because so much of this is in the countryside. There's a sneaking suspicion that eventually the fossil fuel lobby will start to help fund these local campaign groups to slow down the transition. In China they simply just say "you're having it" so there's no arguement. I am not suggesting I want a one party dictatorship in the UK, far from it. But somehow there has to be a form of overiding "national interest" process on this transition that RAPIDLY overcomes bottlenecks and gets stuff done.
I live in a lovely part of Warwickshire, that’s currently being dug up for HS2. It worked for that didn’t it? My local area get zero upsides , yet has to deal with a lot of the downsides, now and in the future.
Good point noted by a Brit living in France. The Bordeaux to Paris LGV (high speed line) is 500 km and started building in 2012 the year before we moved here. It was completed in 2017...France is very much a democracy and you know what happens when people don't like what's going on, they protest like mad! But the national needs override local objections, none of this fannying around with parish councils, county councils and all that stuff, they just get on and do it. The UK always seem so worn out and poor when I go back there, terrible pot-holed roads and an embarrassingly poor and expensive rail network
Given the planning reforms being planned by Labour (Who lets face it are the next government, lets not get into the politics side of things where people slate one party or another, this isn't the place for that) then things like this will likely become significantly easier to put in place. They seem to be going all in on renewables which can only be a positive thing for projects like this.
@odds87 feel sorry for you as an individual but sadly there are always some people who will lose out. I wasn't thinking about high-speed rail. But that's another area where China has just made it happen. Nearly 10 years ago I took the line from Beijing to Xian. We need to take on board local suggestions for routing, environmental impact and visual amenity. But then pick the least worst option and get on with it.
@@geralddavison Agreed. You want better planning, taking on board local objections can't be much of a part of it. The entire reason HS2 went over budget was planning applications and the insane revision that councils required. Air vent buildings to look like local barn buildings so they would fit in... you know... behind the trees and because there's not lots of barns that look awful. People were horribly treated during HS2, and the obvious solution to all of those problems and Stonehenge is big tunnels. Just tunnel straight from London to Birmingham. The Victorians would have just got on with it. Could have dug the thing by hand by now. We had an interconnector blocked that was supposed to land around Portsmouth because the Nimbys didn't want their roads dug up. Who cares about the lung disease and people not having enough money to light their houses or cook food when some people might have to take a different route for a few weeks, eh? Also, this is a bipartisan sort of thing - all parties seem to agree the current system doesn't work, so they should all have fixed and should all get in a room like big girls and sort it out. I wish people would stop picking a government/party to blame it on when it's clearly the fault of all of them - they don't want to do the work because they won't get the credit in an election as it'll take years to come to fruition. Also because they're universally lazy sociopaths of course.
Anyway you slice this information - we are moving forward was this tech and that’s a good thing. Faster we get off reliance of fossil energy the better. 🎉🎉🎉😊
Imogen, this might interest you. Deutsche Welle News Ukraine covered a story on the strategic move to solar+ batteries in Ukraine with a goal of making an "unbreakable power grid" through decentralised generation. National and local governments are incentivising solar uptake for critical infrastructure like hospitals but also highrise apartment buildings to communities to individual homes. Also over 300 grid scale solar farms are being built.
@@shaundudley4576 surely you wouldn't want a small nation destroyed by another larger nation? How is that sentiment even occurring in your brain without shuddering with horror?
The world's largest super fast charging network built in 2 years with 100K charging stations? Amazing, game changing if it's possible and comes to pass. Very big news for EV drivers with fast DC charging
CATL is an amazing research, development, and production company for batteries, as are several other providers. And certainly they can scale. But at both the grid-level, substation level, or changer/home or store level, there is much more than good batteries to consider. In particular, there is the software and the IT infrastructure to go with that to control the battery systems and optimize the power networks. Tesla excels at that sort of thing as well. While there is huge demand and plenty of room for many players, I don't think Tesla has too much to worry about in the energy market place over the next 4-5 years and beyond.
Everyone does care about energy density. Nobody is interested in saving our planet now, with batteries the size of an average fridge, if we might be able to do it in a couple of decades, with batteries slightly smaller than an average fridge. Maybe we should just put everything on hold, until we have batteries small enough to put them in the freezer compartment of a slightly smaller than average fridge?
@@robinhood4640 But the technological development is only possible because they're selling the current generation to fund the R&D for the next generation. Putting it all "on hold" will just stop the funding of the development and therefore there won't be any advancement.
There are some use cases for higher-density stationary storage in urban environments. Such as for EV charging stations and buildings on high $/sq. m land. Putting storage inside urban areas that charge at night and discharge during daytime peaks can reduce grid infrastructure upgrades, by reducing the peak transmission capacity needed. For a solar or wind farm in the middle of now where massive flow batteries or pumped hydro are probably better,
@@robinhood4640 you clearly don't know what is grid storage, bc the batteries for that are the size of container and it's ok. Because it just f-ing sits there among other batteries on a small plot of land, and the only thing about it that stifles the adoption is cost
@@udavster I am on your side. The best you can do, is focus on a specific detail that you feel isn't appropriate to the signification of your comment. Why don't you focus on "stationary BESS", "energy density" and "nobody cares about density", which is exactly the crux of your comment? You might find my comment less indicative of my lack of knowledge, and not post a reply which i find indicative of your character.
I like CATL so much I bought a Tesla M3 battery pack containing CATL cells to put in on my house for the ultimate home energy storage 😀😃😅 Although I'm now thinking that container full of batteries hidden in my garden would be the ultimate storage.
Size for grid storage is less important than Total cost of ownership. This is really cool but if it's twice the cost.... I would love these batteries more in new electric cars
You still think in financial terms. If we want a future for our kids, that mindset has got to change. More so: those who profited from poluting the world, must contribute their fair share, without financial compensation.
Nice, they shoould make portable solar-charged pack for rural homes. I ithink govts in Africa should partner with CATL to provide rural people with electricity connectivity.
Liked the update , but using " the end for Tesla Megapack " is a silly title . The products will co exist and Tesla use LFP themselves. The CATL claim that there is zero degradation is just not true they simply employ a buffer that evens out the degradation so the initial capacity appears to remain the same. Basically any battery from day 1 of use will incrementally grow its internal resistance and decrease the capacity.
In today's fast-paced world, where every minute counts, the ability to charge an electric car at a rate of 13 km/s would be a groundbreaking development. It would significantly enhance the practicality and appeal of electric vehicles.
The problem is CATL works with Tesla more then any other company on the planet,. They could buy this from CATL and sell it as well. The megapack is long from ending, and if CATL has a great storage system, Tesla may buy it!! Tesla's Tech is Steller when it comes to the Megapacks, an important part of the energy system. Tesla made 3.7 Billion in energy storage Q2 2024!!! They will be doing this in China, very soon, and probably be using CATL's batteries for their energy storage, Megapack!!!!!!
I think what CATL is doing here is just downrating the batteries, so that they’ve got spare capacity for those first five years. But it’s great that they’re getting significantly more energy density per square foot of storage!
Well presented Imogen not easy all very technical.My first EV this year at the age of 75 better late than never.The cars are fine it is the infrastructure the charging bit I try to get my head around Imogen.
A main reason Tesla is before others is also the software and automations that comes with the megapacks. Space is rarely the issue, rather price , fiability, delivering time and features.
Software is quick and cheap unless dealing with government regulations and stuff like personnel management. You might like to look at predbat software for free, open source charging automation software for home use. Tesla was forced to halve the price of their megapacks this year - I don't think there is any software protecting their margins at all and obviously, they don't make the batteries themselves. China destroyed all solar manufacturing in Europe and the USA and dominate batteries completely - what is next ? cars ? energy storage - what is Tesla doing - I know that it is not a car company now and it is really a robot company and an AI company.
Clickbait using the word Tesla in the subject. They can't get the viewers unless they mock or make out that Tesla's massive lead is dead! Come on Everything Electric Show. You should know better, this is not a race. The more the merrier in the big party of battery storage. CATL and Tesla are partners in quite a lot of things. It is not the end for Tesla. It will be the end of me subscribing to the Everything Electric Show if you continue this nonsense.
Predictably/sadly sodium ion batteries are being omitted from the media narrative. The host (true-to-type)focuses on false or secondary priorities ie. super-mega-energy density and super-mega fast-charging. But sodium ion batteries(not least CATL's) - have major clear advantages but are obviously not wanted by the lithium mining and refining industry.. Paul G
Unfortunately here in the good ole USA one political party wants to blow UP all this amazing technology and DRILL, BABY, DRILL.Thanks for the presentation!
Unfortunately for you, the whole US political system being tied to "Lobbying" (legalised bribery) condemns you to be at best decades behind, at worst never joining the energy transition..... REGATDLESS of "tie colour" . (It's going to get "messy") (imo)
@@AlanTov The guy who voted Obama Obama Clinton Biden Then said "I won't vote D" following an intense, obviously politically motivated and nasty campaign against his companies AND him personally... . The guy who when asked outright recently who he would vote for refused to answer, but hinted there's not really a good choice? . The guy whose companies (IF you think about it) are concentrating on technologies leading to a Socialist system ("free stuff", abundance, workforce and monetary reform?) . I could add "Ownership of the workplace by the Proliteriat", that old mainstay of the policies preached by Karl Marx.... (Ya'know, the "Commie"?) The "Capitalist" version of which would be "extremely preferential purchase of company shares by the workforce" Pushed by ...guess who? . You literally "believe what you read in the papers" (or the modern equivalent) . More fool you.
That is already happening to a large extent. I noticed that the array of Tesla chargers near me in Poitiers has a Mega pack next to them sitting behind a security fence. I wouldn't mind betting that they are buying power from EDF overnight at a few cents/kWh and selling it during the day at €0.43/kWh...still cheaper than the competition but with 75% of French power coming from nuclear there are deals to be done if you buy power by the MWh.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 With the energy in France already being generated using environmentally friendly means, what is the benefit of also adding solar panels and batteries to the system? What is accomplished, outside of adding to the amount of resources being consumed?
@@PistonAvatarGuy what, seriously? They export energy to us mate. They sell us electricity. More electricity is good for them. Plus they benefit the same as anyone from having grid storage because it smooths out the grid and they too buy electricity when they need it. They can fill those batteries up with excess power during peak generation too and use or sell it later as needed. It also helps lessen the severity of power cuts. If the UK doubled it's energy generation, the power would a) be used for industry and things we can't currently afford and b) be sold to other countries for a profit and c) reduce the cost of our own power since we'd no longer be pegged to gas. Yes, there's no point building ten times the storage that you need, but no, there's no major country that has sufficient battery storage yet.
This lady is absolutely refreshing to listen to, and there seems to be a (slow-) reaction to the inevitable shift to Sustainable Energy. To compete with Chinese headstart (After they reacted very energetically!) when ElonMusk warned EVERYBODY what is coming, and made available hundreds of patents (for free!) in electric car manufacturing! Traditional 'Legacy' car makers WILL become history ... Beautiful collector's items!
Imogen . I don't suppose youve checked the location of the newest CATL factory, (due to start ramping in Q1 2025)? . Its about 1km from the Tesla BESS "Megapactory" due for completion at about the same time... Coincidence??? . I *WONDER* where the cells will be coming from?. . Rather than competing, its almost as though Tesla and CATL are becoming symbiotic? (Great for *BOTH* companies)
Wasting lithium battery resources on DC fast charging stations and grid power storage is stupid and unsustainable. We need to stop seeking faster charging and using grid batteries for energy arbitrage (yes that was why Hornsdale started all of this). We must respect that scaling all of this battery tech comes with severe mining and refining emissions that don't fit within a zero carbon strategy. Grid storage should use pumped hydro or other means, reserving the lithium battery tech for light weight high energy density needed for vehicles. And vehicles should not be wasting battery resource to seek 300+ miles range to satiate uneducated ICE driver's concerns. We're letting tech bros decide our energy strategy and their letting the free market decide what they build. This is leading to LESS efficient vehicles year over year (SUV's and Pickups) as they get bigger and heavier with more power and needless dangerous acceleration. I respect that CATL is able to keep improving batteries. But let's create great sustainable policy, concentrate more of those batteries toward e-bikes and micromobility and get realistic about actual sustainable tech, which this is NOT. Not now, and not under zero carbon.
Isn't high energy density unnecessary for stationary grid storage? I bet cheap but long lasting batteries is the most important aspect of large scale stationary storage
Not necessarily, smaller batteries means smaller systems, smaller connections, smaller amounts of weight the structure has to hold, and with smaller sized cells it makes it easier to cool them. All of those factors could save a battery plant millions when it comes to construction
CATL its....just crazy good! In China there are lots of their chargers already installed and they work well. So...this is not dreams on paper, its reality!
Buffer batts for high-speed charging are the way forward. Even as it's dumping charge into a vehicle, even as the vehicle is unhooking and moving out, as the new one is moving in and hooking up, the buffer itself is receiving charge at the utility's best rate, making the most of existing infrastructure. And every minute it sits idle with no-one charging, it's just getting higher and higher into its capacity, more able to quickly top up the next vehicle to use it.
It also reduces the size of the hookup to the grid network by allowing charging of the battery at night. Getting larger hookups can add months to years in some areas as upgrades to the grid are needed.
I've been predicting Tesla would (will) combine at least one Megapack with Charging and Autobidder to maximise efficiency. . CATL obviously sees the same opportunity.
Let's do the math on that "buffer" charger. It has a 96 kWh battery. It can charge a car at up to 480 kW, so it can dump it's entire buffer into a vehicle in as little as 12 minutes. But with only a 40 kW grid connection, it then takes 144 minutes (2.4 hours) to re-fill its buffer. I suppose that's great for a charger that's only used a few times per day, but if there's a line of cars waiting to charge, it's really only a 40 kW charger.
@@TheUweRoss I should have made clear that it's NOT really of benefit to the vehicles, BUT it IS useful to both the local grid (IF there are large numbers of chargers at a location, AND for load balancing at peak.... PLUS REALLY great for the company owning the site/ battery who can make a LOT of profit buying low/ selling high... IF these batteries are WAY bigger than "96kWh" I'm talking a few Megapacks at a 100 charger location.
Sodium battery? LFP 3MP LMFP?? Need be safe safe safe, before density ofenergy it has Safe #1 then energy capacity Well hope ot really will all lower energy price!
Battery chemistry is everything for grid storage battery systems and Tesla is sticking to its lithium batteries for grid storage At great risk for the company’s bottom line as better batteries like Vanadium flow and Iron air batteries are already proving to be longer lasting and dramatically less expensive save LFP BATTERIES FOR TRANSPORTATION
How would CATL battery tech hurt Tesla? Tesla is CATL’s biggest customer. Tesla is listening their tech to build lfp batteries in America (likely for energy storage). CATL is the Tesla of the battery industry.
After many years with almost no production and zero profits, Tesla finally increased production of Megapacks in 2023 and maybe made a profit but they need to buy the batteries, cells from other companies like CATL which is now cutting out Tesla by competing with them. BESS is low margin backroom stuff: just put an inverter on a battery!
Iron flow, maybe sodium ion. No need for density in BESS. Tesla Megapack 3 with 23% margins will eliminate substations while generating massive revenues for owners via autobidder. THE NEWS is that stationary storage prices are absolutely plummeting in China. Not really this talk of density for stationary storage. CATL is great. Tesla is great. But you need Tesla in your video title for a reason, don't you.
CATL and BYD should be at the forefront of creating massive charging networks around the world. The lack of good reliable charging infrastructure is one of the main reasons EV uptake isn't greater. Perhaps they are running at capacity now and don't see the need, but if they want to supercharge (pun intended) the future they should build more superchargers.
Why making it a battle between two companies? They're all working towards the same goal. You, as divulgator should try to reduce this wide polarisation. Please?
It's 2024. Are we still really calling everything "The End for Tesla"? Tesla and CATL are partners. Tesla's energy storage business is growing rapidly. CATL & Tesla will both do great. Lets cheer for all great solutions, and stop cheering for "Tesla Killers". The "Tesla Killer Cemetery" is already full. :)
💯 If I had to name 3 companies which are "Least likely to kill each other"???? TESLA. CATL. BYD. . Most others? There's a high incidence of Self Harm, some Attempted $u1ciDe.
Even though Australia has all the benefits i.e. sunshine it has been very slow indeed to uptake battery storage on a grid scale, except for rooftop solar the energy transition is painfully slow. Centralized generation and distribution systems are for most of us obsolete. So who is benefitting by keeping them going?
The ultra-fast DC charger takes up to 40kW, stores it in a 96kWh battery and discharges at up to 480kW; it can only achieve the peak rate at best 1/12 of the time (and probably less given the night-time use will far less, so will be sat fully charged for the first user of the day). I suppose that is an impressive discharge rate of 12C for the LFP batteries.
Every new home built should include a battery storage system connected to the grid, creating over time a distributed power grid system. In time, it will become economic for existing homes to have similar battery storage that can expand energy dependability and sustainability while reducing cost, pollution and global climate change. I'm too old to see either the end of the human species from fossil fuel pollution or the saving of the species by the worldwide deployment of solar, hydroelectric, wind with battery storage. These are exciting times for the younger generation, and hopefully for many generations yet to come.
I totally agree that energy storage will form a key part of energy distribution. However, having a self contained storage and fast charger system connected to existing “low” power infrastructure will only work if the duty cycle of car charging to storage charging is low. Imagine pulling up to charge your EV only to find the charger battery is too low to fast charge. That said this type of charger could be part of the solution, and there may well be locations where on average the battery will get enough time to recharge itself before the next EV comes along.
Wait ... Input 40kW, output 400kW, and 96kWh capacity? So you deliver 2-3 super-fast charging sessions, then sit and recharge for 2.5 hours? The intermittent availability is going to piss drivers off, don't you think?
They're going to need a lot of those battery-integrated charging stations. The first person who hits it in the morning will drain it, or come close, and then it will take forever to recharge at 40kW. The only way I see these working is to have a lot of battery capacity at each charging site, like multiple MWh.
I see them useful where it’s restricted time parking at corner stores(the output amount per customer could be tuned), for larger multi charger sites you would just get a mega pack to buffer and have a realtime advertisement of your charging speed. These ones could network to help each other though.
Gravity batteries are a lot more reasonable, with less impact and resources. Other option is the flow batteries. These types of stationary applications should never be using conventional, expensive metallic batteries. One type of gravity batteries can be done with water, but there are other types, such as using solid weights, it is extremely efficient and use less land.
@@rogerstarkey5390 The largest batteries on earth are gravity batteries: hydropower. But most types of gravity batteries are easily expanded, modular, and very space efficient.
