The End of 405 line TV 

umm, that probably would have been done now.

If only they had that much patience with the digital switchover

Because when analogue was switched off everyone was watching digital my friend's and my family had all switched to digital long before analogue was switch off Analogue only had 5 channel's as far as I remember digital had hundreds and my nans digital tv even had hd channels digital was way better What I think was only a small amount of people complained because only TV enthusiasts had analogue I had a small analogue TV but I used it only to play Xbox games after the switch over before the switch over it only had 5 channel's

@@sh-ig9fm There's no apostrophe in 'channels'.

Some smaller US channels gave a proper sendoff

@@CrankCase08 there can be, but I agree not there 🙂

@@kaboomgamer333 Indeed. I vaguely remember one of the few news stations in Wyoming giving a sendoff for analogue.

They could reuse those band III aerials for digital (DAB) radio though

And several times before too.

Wakefulpanda is that sarcasm?

and Keith Martin left BBC tv continuity much earlier than David.... and ventured to similar pastures elsewhere - do google if you wish:)

Terry Harvey you bloody scared at me 4:29

What was the other hand? Very 80s shirt btw ;)

ha!

Dont forget that when you watch RU-vid, it's often 400-odd lines or less ... especially if you watch it in the default presentation rather than full screen.

?

@@carlosmpsenyorcapitacollon6977 Watch the clipto the end!

Welcome to the exciting world of Crap-O-Vision!

CAUGHT YOU SAVAGE LEFT EAR SPAM COMMENTS ARE GETTING REPETITIVE AND UNDERRATED

My left ear enjoyed this

CAUGHT YOU IN ACTION MISSING THE JOKE! r/woooosh

Yeah, and last year (at the time of writing this comment) on July 13, 2021, LPTV was killed off, with class A shutting down in 2015. It wasn't until January 10th of 2022 that some repeaters in alaska were shut off, due to the cold asf temperatures, and the fact that the FCC was okay with that until January 10th. Only 2 analog stations still exist in the U.S.A. at the time of this comment, because those stations got accepted to broadcast in analog for a few more years.

Not sure if they would have been, actually; R4 wasn't always 24h. I think it changed about the same date, give or take a few years.

"Standard Definition." is whatever the legacy technology is, in the three-technology model.

Gary Dunn I know right? They switched to colour 625 lines, but kept filming shows in 405 lines for years afterwards.

they had dual standard tv's a nightmare to repair

@@justanotheryoutubechannel Hardly "for years afterwards". the BBC switched over to all-625 production in January 1968, converting the programmes down to 405 on transmission. ITV followed a year later. From 1969 onwards, all programmes were being made in 625, with conversion down to 405 for those with older sets or who lived in areas where UHF coverage hadn't yet reached.

@@billjones7932 Only some of them, no more a nightmare than single-standard TVs. Some dual-standard TVs were great to repair, like most of Thorn's TVs.

Good sound quality, though.

8 MHz was the entire channel width, or spacing - including the sound (even the NICAM) and the VSB. Though it _did_ mean the video bandwifth was wider (6 MHz, I think) under our system I than the B and G used in the rest of (western) Europe. (As you say, less in US too, though not that much: fewer lines [525], but more times a second - the _line_ frequencies were very similar.)

"Sorry about the F in fog" ...

I do rather miss it!

I agree, I wanted to see the carrier go off too. though I'm not sure it would have been snow: system A used positive modulation, unlike the negative all the others (I think possibly excluding 819 - not sure about 525) used. so maybe it had.

j7ndominica0 Maybe to avoid interference from distant stations during Sporadic E or F2.

They were already having problems in densely populated areas, with Yorkshire TV stations interfering with Manchester or Merseyside for example. Also you can fit far more stations into the UHF spectrum. When 405 sets were standard, there were usually only two channels or 3 at most. VHF was still used in many areas of Australia for example, until fairly recently but these also went to UHF as the number of channels increased. Australia is now completely digital.

3 channels was sufficient, we not have 80 channels of repeats and terrible filler tv

The 405 line system used very narrow 5 MHz channel limits. PAL 625 line is either 7 or 8 MHz, meaning a narrower television band unless you also use the 88-108 MHz band (Australia and Russia did this). The 405 line system allowed for up to three nationwide television networks (however with the decision to broadcast BBC 2 in 625 lines on UHF only, the free VHF allocations were used for gap-filling relay stations). System I VHF, as used in Ireland and South Africa, only allowed for two incomplete VHF networks, needing gap filling relays on UHF. If the UK had replaced 405 line VHF with 625 line PAL VHF only one complete network would have been possible (because all of the UHF allocations were already filled), and every viewer would have needed a new aerial and most would have needed new televisions as well. A few companies did make sets with the Irish VHF band (so they could sell the same set in the UK and in Ireland) but it wasn't anything close to a majority.

Yes, a 625-line signal was sent out from their studios, but at 405-line transmitters it would be passed through a 625-405 line converter, whose output then fed the input of the transmitter equipment.

We used to have B/W BBC1 from N. Hessary tor here in Devon our set went to my sisters room with the band 1 X aerial on the washing line mast outside in the garden, they put onscreen message about the service ending on there for months , we had a new colour set in the lounge with 3 channels it, was mind blowing I recall

I'm not sure what "NTSC-A" or "PAL-I" are/were. "405 lines" was system A (405 interlaced lines, 50 fields/25 frames per second, positive AM sound and vision, sound below vision); UK transmitted system A on VHF, no colour, until the 1985 date this clip is about. (I think Ireland may have broadcast system A on UHF.) Systems B, G, and I are all 625 interlaced lines (576 actual picture), 50/25 per second, AM video, FM sound ( _above_ the video); I had sound 6 MHz above video, the others 5.5. You could use whatever colour encoding you liked. UK used system I with PAL colour, on UHF only (simulcasting two of the channels with what was on system A on VHF); most of the rest of western Europe used PAL colour on systems B and G on both VHF and UHF, (The only difference between B and G was channel spacing, and video banwidth; most sets used common circuitry.) France used SECAM colour, but still "625 lines" (and until some point also 819 lines, monchrome only - latterly squeezed into the same channels, though initially much wider as you'd expect; the narrow ones looked very smeary!).

We had one of those too, when "625" (actually 576i) analogue went off.

I remember encountering channel 0 on a visit to Melbourne from New Zealand back in 1979.

They did experiment with colour on 405 - both NTSC and PAL, possibly even SECAM - but only trial; broadcasts never became standard, and I don't think sets were ever available. When we started colour officially, it was only in the UHF system I (625) channels, using PAL.

625 *IS NOT PAL*; PAL (phase, alternate line) refers to the colour-encoding system. You could have NTSC colour on 625 lines, or PAL on 525 (I think Brazil did). I don't _think_ 720 or 1080 have ever used PAL colour coding - I think they've always been digital-only. ("NTSC" stands for "national" [USA of course!] television standards committee", and thus _does_ refer to both the line/field frequency [525/30] _and_ the colour system, as they specified both; PAL is strictly only the colour system, though vast numbers of people _think_ it means 625/50.)

for 625 line system

NTSC equals "Never Twice The Same Colour"

@@zl2ady1 SECAM "something essentially contrary to the American method" then "peace at last" 🙂

System A, "405 lines", only ever used by UK and EI, never (apart from a brief period of experimentation) had colour, either NTSC or PAL (or SECAM).

625 line has 575 active lines ( including two half lines ). Digital only needs the active lines, but only full lines, this makes 576 lines. So digital SD was just the same.

"405" wasn't _that_ low-resolution (in fact it was described as high when it started, which it was compared to 220 etc., and certainly compared to 30!); I remember being perfectly content with it. (A lot of what is on youTube is that or less!) As the other responder has explained, digital SD - 576i in former "625" regions - uses the same number of lines as "625", it just doesn't have to encode the ones during "field flyback". By now (2022), of course, even SD is seen as "old hat" and is under attack, by the HD, 4X, 8X, ... enthusiasts.

the current going through the magnetic yoke coils that direct the beam to scan t across the screen fades, along with the focusing current (which makes the dot spread out).

So basically, the TV turning off.

No. No. No. SQUIDWARD!

Static

You need an Aurora converter.

Depends how you "try". There are no broadcast signals that these sets can receive. There are no native sources of system A standard video (unless you get hold of a 405-standard camera that still works). But, if you use a converter (like the Aurora one mentioned), that can take a (say) "625"-line signal and convert it to "405", _and_ modulate it onto a VHF carrier (for very good safety reasons, most such sets had the only external connection the aerial socket - no direct video in), then it would still display; the switch-off of the broadcasts didn't destroy the sets. (There are penty of clips on youTube showing exactly that - modern signals converted to the old standard and thus to something the old set can display.) If you somehow managed to get a "625" signal into such a set that _hadn't_ been converted to "405", the picture would break up into diagonal stripes, as the line frequency is too different. (I don't think even a US "525" signal would be within the adjustment range.)

Yes it was the phaze alternation system which was German as all good things are lol

@@devonguy02 PAL to be pedantic is the Colour system. In Brazil they used 525 line/60 HZ with PAL. ( System M I think) 625 lines I believe was developed by Phillips. PAL is German though, but that's just the Colour system

As Martin Hughes says, strictly PAL refers to the colour system, not the line/frame standard. But yes, system B/G/I used "625 lines" (actually 576 actual picture lines), 25 times a second, and US/NTSC used "525" (480 actual I think) lines, but 30 (later 29.97) times a second. So Europe had somewhat more vertical resolution, but at a lower refresh rate. The actual line frequencies come out very close! The PAL _colour_ system _is_ superior - mainly suffers far less from hue errors (most PAL sets didn't have a hue control, only a saturation one) - although the shortcomings of NTSC colour were much less apparent at UHF anyway, which is the only place the UK ever had colour beyond early experiments; however, it probably helped in the European countries that did have colour on VHF.

The figures were estimated to be about 17,000 sets in use by 1984. Sometimes they were used as secondary sets or because they had no interest in colour TV, but mainly because 405 line signals on VHF were much more robust than the 625 line signals on UHF, even by 405 switch-off there were, and still are, remote areas which are outside of the reach of the 625 analogue and now Freeview signals. But, often, 405 could be received perfectly in those areas. We're talking proper isolated areas, like the middle of the Pennines, the Borders, Highlands, mountainous Wales, North Yorkshire Moors. When 405 was switched off, most of those areas lost TV altogether. Some did get UHF relays erected a few years afterwards but some remained so out of reach that the next possibility of TV wouldn't come until 1989, with the launch of $ky.

Aidan Lunn Wow, that many 405 sets in the mid 1980's? Perhaps it shows that the roll out of 625 line was poorly planned because BBC 2 was un available in certain remote areas, meaning the infrastructure should be right first.

The cost of doing so determined the roll-out of 625. Generally, we're talking about £10million per transmitter, currency converted to decimal and taking inflation into account, total cost. So they rolled out 625/colour in pretty much the same way as BBC1 and ITV on 405, most populous areas first covered by main transmitters, least populous last, then fill in the gaps. As the new transmitter technology gets cheaper and better over the rollout period, which for 625 took over 20 years to closely match 405 coverage, it becomes more cost effective to open relays. Their thinking was the ratio of cost of transmitter : how many potential eyeballs. The more viewers there were, the more they could justify the cost of opening a new transmitter network and the more the effort and cost would pay off over time.

CHris Henniker This figure given does not distinguish between VHF single band TV's, and those that were able to receive both VHF and UHF (not sure if it they stretched the 405 line image on a 625 tube) as no data was ever recorded at the time. I had a dual receive TV, but I was young and the only time I ever saw it in use was when there was a power-cut and we used it on a car battery, but we knocked it over tripping in the dark breaking the back panel off so the TV I was supposed to be allowed to have when my parents felt I was old enough, was destroyed. Sad really, I had to wait many years before another TV cam my way. It was a mess of warn out valves and I found out later it was a known fire risk due to the poor construction inside. Just as well it was a terrible picture that I couldn't stop rolling and the whole thing got so hot too. Despite only being about 9 or 10 then there is one thing I do recall being mentioned at the time, and reading about later, with no funding to put into the VHF relays maintenance parts were not replaced when they broke down instead they were repaired manually, right down to the final component. As the UHF to VHF conversion equipment was getting old and less reliable they became incapable of repair, several relay station were replaced with cameras pointed at UHF TV's. Judging by the lack of complaints, it's doubtful if anyone really noticed, or were even actually watching VHF any more by this time. Closing down VHF, did save enough money in electricity costs, maintenance cost and other fees to build more transmitters later on.

It relates to those using just 405-line TVs, not dual standard ones (as they were UHF capable, they were counted as UHF sets - the standards switching was frequently problematic and so many TV engineers took great pleasure in ripping out the 405 circuitry once it was no longer needed). There's no such thing as a "625 tube" or a "405 tube" - the tube will display whatever line timebase you feed into it, a CRT doesn't have "pixels" - the closest you come to pixels in a CRT are phosphor dots in the shadowmask, and even they are only in colour CRTs. B&W CRTs don't need pixels or phosphor dots or anything of the ilk. Valve TVs will and do get very hot, that was normal, the valves do contain heater elements after all, to make the cathode inside the valve get hot so it can start emitting electrons. If it was a fire risk, it must have been a late 60s Bush, Pye or Ekco, despite popular belief, valve TVs were usually not a fire risk - the most fire-like thing you'd usually get out of them would be a puff of smoke. As for the reputation of valves, they are nowhere near as bad as many people think either. Most of the 405-line sets I've restored to working order in my collection are still running most of the exact same valves they left the factory with! TV dealers used to earn commission from the valve manufacturers for every valve they sold, so they invented this elaborate lie that valves were unreliable, so they could sell more valves and thus earn commission. thus the repairman used to repair the actual fault, then charge the customer or the accounts department of the rental company if it was a rented set, for the cost of the component that caused the fault *and* the price of new valves. The funding was there - it's the lack of parts that did it in for 405. Only in the Irish Republic did optical conversion happen as result of a converter breakdown. The electronic 625-405 converters in the UK were kept in use right until the end of 405. The reason for the poor picture on the Baird pre-war set in the above video was because the CRT was clapped out and the CRTs of that period were non-aluminised. The BBC's converters (Pye CO6/509s) were subsequently very reliable and even today can be got going with the minimum of maintenance - they were of a digital design, built by Pye, from 1969. The ITA continued with the use of the Pye CO6/501 analogue electronic converters, that were designed by the BBC and made by Pye in about 1963/64, so 625-line BBC2 material could be broadcast on 405-line BBC1. I think the figure was about 60,000 405-line sets in use, mostly by people who lived in isolated spots that were beyond the reach of 625 transmissions - VHF signals being far more robust than UHF ones. In fact, when the 405-line service closed in the Borders, the BBC and the ITA received hundreds of complaints, because there were so many isolated spots there that could only receive the 405-line service, the 625-line relay building programme at that time hadn't reached the population coverage that 405 had, some people would have to forego TV for a year at least!

VHF Band 1 Channel 1 from the Crystal Palace transmitter. On UHF TV sets, it was on preset button 1. On VHF TV sets, it didn't have this, you switched to the frequency rather than the preset button for this station.

Channel 1 frequency was 41.5 MHz for Audio and 45 MHz for Video. This is now allocated to the military in the UK

@@aidanlunn7441 In 1985, most TV sets (UHF in UK, UHF and VHF in the rest of Europe) used continuous tuning - usually four (in UK) buttons, each of which you tuned to the individual channels, and they stayed there (the "presets" you referred to). Old VHF-only sets tended to use a "turret tuner" - often on the side of the set - which clunked through the dozen or so channels (on bands I, III, and sometimes a few for cable systems), physically switching in different components - sometimes with a fine turning control too. As Mark says, Channel 1 VHF in UK was 41.5 MHz audio and 45 video. Channel 1, though never any of the others, was originally full both sidebands, though I think it became VSB like all the others.

Ghosting or multipath reception is when a reflected signal arrives at the aerial then reciever with the same information a millisecond after the first lot, causing this effect, basically, so you gat the main image and then a shadow of it eg a ghost image

625 lines

Everything is relative. "405" was claimed to be high definition when it started, and was, compared to what else was around at the time (it wasn't _that_ far before that *30* lines was in use!).

I saw someone upload a recording of a sign-off from this station circa the 1980s. The sign-off would play the national anthem after it displays the time, exactly like this minus the message about cutting 405-line transmission.

They used to play the national anthem every night at shutdown, up until the nineties when bbc1 went to 24 hours a day

thanks

So the US wasn't the only place that did that. That's interesting.

Jorge Pais And in Spain till 2001.