My Gameplay Channel: / @hera-gameplay My Twitch: / hera My Discord: / discord My Twitter: / hera_aoe Music in this video: • nothing really matters... Edits by K1 / @k1aoe
10 vills on wood with double bit should give a payback of 5 mins. After that you 1-1.5vil lead worth of res coming in. So delaying it better be worth 1 vill at about 5min mark
So here it is: -6 on sheep -2 on wood -Next 7 on hunt/sheep -one on gold (16th vil at about 5:10) - 2 on food - - At 18 vils, clicks up to Feudal. - When the hunt is finished, send 7 vils to wood. Total of 9 on wood. - While moving up to Feudal, build barracks. - build two archery ranges in Feudal. - build blacksmith - get fletching - - Get Loom - send 21st and 22nd vil to gold. (I think he sent some of the food vils to gold. after 22, total of 5 on gold.) - at 25 vils - move to 6 on berries - send archers out at 12:00. Keep up vil production. - Did I get that right?
Also mention that he bought his way up to castle age. So building a market and selling all your stone at some point should be part of the build if the archer push goes well.
For anyone curious: He clicks up with 37 vils at 17:01 37 - 3 (starting vils) = 34 vils * 25s = 850s 850s + 25s (loom) + 130s (feudal age) = 1005s 1005s = 16:45 active TC time Castle age is in at 17:01 with only 16 seconds idle TC time
I like this build order as it teaches us to scout early to spot it instead of being always greedy. It also makes the game much more entertaining. Just disrupt it with raids on the wood to force a second lumbercamp, or drush, or maa… even forcing quick walls is enough most of the time to make this build fails - at least it will delay the castle age by several minutes. The scary part of this build is when excellent players are able to follow up/transition with a forward siege and monks.
To new players: TC with 6 vils will be 2 volleys before it kills the boar, TC with 4 vils will be 3 volleys. TC with 5 will still be 2 and the 3rd volley will kill the boar and you will get no food.
Am I the only one who thinks that this TC trick isn’t worth it at all? Especially for new players. The risk to kill the boar with the TC is way too high, we even see it in pro games. And all of that risk for what? For a little bit more HP on two vils, which could be send to farm right next to the TC later? I still don’t understand that at all. I mean it looks cool but that’s it.
@@Maennlichkeitsbeauftragter The purpose of this trick isn't to save vil hp, but to kill the boar faster, i.e., spend less time killing it (tc fires faster than the vils). So you will get more food. But I agree, for new/casual players not actually worth it. It happens to me too often that I kill the boar with tc, because my old habbit is to hide the luring vil in the tc. But when the tc was once asigned to target the boar, then the vil that you hide there automatically shoots the boar. And when you are too fast with the garrison, i.e., before the vils outside shoot it, the disaster may happen. I keep doing the trick anyway because I want to learn it and it's quite fun to change your dark age a bit.
Thats where i learnt the concept from. I think an optimized version of this will be the meta for the next tg tourney. Or people will do stuff like drush to counter it maybe
French community is really competitive. Whenever i face one of them on ladder around 1600-1700 elo i know i am in for a tough game vs players that dont give up easily
Very interesting build. I almost feel like team game drushing might come into vogue if that's able to counter this since everything is so tight. And it also occurs to me that this is an early to mid-game strategy, so you could do this with civs you wouldn't expect. In addition to the four you mentioned, I see potential for: Cumans: The savings on the two ranges pays for the blacksmith. Malians: 200+ wood saved just on the barracks, ranges, blacksmith, lumber and mining camp. Mongols: Hunt bonus could get you up even faster than this. Lithuanians: Same story as Mongols, you could maybe adjust the build a bit to have a few more on wood early thanks to the free food. Dravidians: 200 free wood is clutch for this build. Khmer: Just skip that stupid barracks. Incas: Save a bit of wood on houses and have extra food right away with the llama. And of course a few that might sound better than they are: Japanese: You're skipping a second lumber camp and delaying your mill, so there's not as much wood saved as usual and you have nothing else going for you. Chinese: You're not going to be hitting the super-fast uptime this build depends on with the Chinese start. Saracens: Yes, your archers will be even more lethal by punching through walls, but if you can't afford double-bit axe right away then you probably can't afford even a discounted market either, and you have no other economy bonus. Vikings: You won't see many benefits before you get a farm eco going, and that's not soon enough for this build.
I would disagree on Japanese. Bcs you can easily have either 2 lumber camps or 1 and mill and still execute that + you simply want barracks with japanese. I think celts deserve honorable mention - althought they are bad archer civ their wood bonus is big so if u turn it into some castle all in with infantry, siege and crossbows it coudl work.. Not sure, gonna try :)
As a Saracen players I think a Market + two archery ranges at the start of feudal is too much (though maybe with 19 pop it's possible, I usually do 18 pop as I explain ahead). However, you can still do other things that are similar. For example, I frequently do 18 pop scout rushes in RM games by going Market + Stable. I don't even push deer. I just do straggler trees after clicking up. I also go mill first which is necessary to get enough food to click up at 18 pop with a civ without a dark age eco bonus. Basically I have three on stragglers until I get 100 wood then send only one vil out to build the late lumber camp and then the two lumberjacks back to food. It sounds very tight, but once you get good at it it's not so bad. Edit: Steam/game name is Hussary if you want recs
@@krystofcisar469 I wasn't sure about Celts because you don't spend most of dark age chopping wood, and instead you get an overcrowded lumber camp and straggler chopping on your way up. Anything with good wood eco is worth considering of course, I just suspect it's not an approach that gets the most out of Celts. As for Japanese, yes you can have a second lumber camp which is nice, but I'm not sure you need the mill much earlier than Hera made it here. In any case, I do think Incas are better because of the llama and the eagle scout. And obviously Japanese wouldn't be a bad choice, just a bit overrated IMO.
Current stats 10-1 with this build. Insane really. And only once the game went in late stadia. And even in late game you are stronger because of map control in early stages.
@@AleksandrKorotkovMy nice! Good to know that works at this level. I am at 850 e worked 2 out of 3 (the one that I lost, the opponent did exactly the same bo)
@@CasanovaLucas Actually, this is not great strategy anymore. There have been some patches that made it harder to execute in late game as far as I remember.
Yeah please do a follow up video. I'm really interested to hear what you think will have to happen or how the meta will have to adapt to deal with this.
Great build order. I tried to give a few try in lower elo and it really hit hards to opponents in TG's . Worked even in black forest opponents made only one line of palisade wall which is easy to break into when they caught off guard
Damn! Every video you upload lately has me trying to get a game in asap. This was really interesting and I've been trying my own poor man's version of this so I'll be switching. A video on team game meta would be pretty cool, I enjoyed the 2v2 one you did.
I’ve been doing this for a while with Gurjaras - then sheep exit the mill in fuedal so you skip farms for a while too , whilst getting fletching, market, db axe.. it’s awesome
I played 4 games with my friends (1250 team elo) 1 of the my friend did follow this build order. We won all games around 14th minutes single handed... This is going to change the game. Thanks Hera
was watching this in fullscreen and pressed pause break to pause the video so I could give this build order a go and forgot I wasn't playing the game lol, Thank you for the informative build there it will come in handy in smoking some of my friends haha.
The BOA Colosseum build order. I think in a few games people even went up with 18 pop with Ethiopians, Mayans or Mongols and got fletching at 11 min. Nice to have these build orders to try. Can you also post some of your crazy early scout build orders, like the ones you did in Kotd-4?
If interested, I can send you a 19 vill pop fast castle (time 11:30, no idle) into boom build order for khmer (on boom maps like arena): i figured it looks like the best boom civ for closed maps in the game. Boom into Balista elefants + husars of course.
Khmer can do a similar scout rush with 16pop/17pop-no-loom where u send to wood after clicking feudal & send to berries after creating 2 scouts. U can make 2 additional scouts early on then add more scouts/skirms at pretty much the same time as 20 pop scouts build.
Hera you Memer! Love it. Pooplord will be proud. Did you see the video I made about you asking who Pooplord was 🤪 But seriously, thanks for sharing all your builds, tip etc. I love how this community is going strong.
This is like the Hoang of archer civs. Truly terrifying that its evolving into other civs. So by that measure you have to avoid double bit axe. Waste of res :D Love the vid
Baguettes send their regards :) Credits to Sitaux who "invented" these versions of 18 pop 2 range archer builds like 2-3 years ago. It is funny that the old known pro-Teams didn't really catch up onto it for such a long time because, except for some players like Nicov or TaToH, they never play the TG ladder and completely missed/neglected/underestimated the power of this meta developement.
A single tower would slow the player down a little (unless it evolved into a tower war), but if said player just builds another mining camp on their secondary gold you just spent 125 stone to buy yourself like 30 seconds of delay. That's not including the villager walk and build time to harass them in the first place.
I used to do a similar execution in dark age with Japanese before (when Arabia sometimes had 4 deers instead of just 3) where I would make a mill next to the deers (because I am bad at luring them and the mill only cost 50 wood with Japanese).
I have used this buildorder in teamgames in the last few months and won almost every TG on arabia, even against opponents who had 200-300 elo more than me (i have ~1500). So I can definitely recommend it :D
I think this can be achieved with Gurjaras if we don't get wood upgrade and don't make a second lumbercamp. With my current build order, 1 lumber camps, research wood upgrade. I don't push in deer so I need loom for 19 pop archers with gurjaras. They are cracked :p
Nice! This is a variation of what I do almost every RM game and it's cool to see that I'm not totally crazy for trying it. I usually main Saracens so I use the stragglers after I click up to get an 18 (sometimes 19) pop scout rush with a market and stable up right away in feudal. It's always been a weird build with accepted inefficiency for the tradeoff of being really fast and getting that market bonus immediately. I don't push deer very often when I do it though but I've been trying to mix it in lately. Edit: Steam name is Hussary if anyone want recs for illustration
Hi Hera! Excellent video as usual. What is this build not broken in a 1v1 setting? Is it mainly because of opponents going skirmishers or them going something like drush/fast men at arms? I feel that opponent defending with skirms in 1v1 is also bad for because of the insane xbow timing of this build?
amazinggggg but yea need a second video on this too... may be if you could get someone to play against you and you trying this, result wouldnt matter...waiting for your views!!
doing this with goths really sets you up for killer huskarl castle age. lure a deer, on way to castle put 8 on stone, change economy for more farms. if they went heavy skirm or even elite skirm it's GG.
I think Mayans would be the best civ for this build considering both their cheaper archers but also resources lasting longer. Not only will you be able to produce more with the same amount of villagers, but the resource saving also means you get more from your hunt before you move to berries and with 1 lumbercamp it also means you will need to replace it later.
@@mbvglider yeah but the guy don’t know about the strat on early Dark age. Drush is super rare in tg. Mayans can be Good but with this timing castle, eco doesn’t matter in long terme becouse opposant seems to be dead ! And u got this extra dps with ethiopians.. super strong with tjrs civ i think :)
Mayans are great, but you won't be able to produce more archers than Ethiopians. At least not in early feudal (not enough food for the 3rd range). Britons (and their allies) have faster working ranges. Ethiopians with Brit and Saracen allies is the way to go!
I saw this in 1v1 (~900 elo) just now, I scouted 20 or so archers and went skirms and FC knights with 1 extra tc. Delay the archers with skirms and kill the archers with knights and siege. After that he loses because he went all in. In team games it will be a very strong.
This build order really throws a wrench in a meta. If it helps people come up with new, unorthodox strategies, it could be a good thing for a game long term. Certainly frustrating right now, but it's fun to play and watch.
Works fine if you aren't under pressure your glass cannon with no defense at home and no armour on your army - yes you get a big power spike but if they see your civ and guess that your going for this approach they should full pressure you and you loose all momentum but takes a bit of Comms
i play this a lot around 16xx.. its strong for sure but like you said more so for team games. in 1v1s it can work against greedy players imo especially if you have back gold. however, since the build is so tight it can be really hard to pull off depending on map, deer spawns and if opponents scout what you are going for. DONT think its OP! Also if opponent goes for premill drush or 19-20 pop maa , its very hard to pull of this build
Going up without loom in TG is very dangerous, at high elo scouts will be in your woodline or annoying your gold, barrack building vil and might even get kills and put you very behind , for this you need full support from your pocket scout and maybe other pocket as well.
How does the retasking work at 6:19? He garrisons every villager and then presses f and they will automatically go to boar and sheep? I tried doing that and villagers just stand around after they come out
i do it with cumans, only i change the build order, in order to let me build also siege, and my mass of archers work with rams, and eat the base of the enemy
This literally happened to me like a month ago and I just couldn’t believe how many archers he had . I even hah skirms out but once he got crossbow Boykin head had to much mass and shredded me
I don't have very good control of hotkeys and im old so i just play against the extreme AI and micromanage everything with pause. I like the AI changes tactics after I play it many times. Recently the AI stopped trying to boom imp and started throwing archers and skirms at me around the time I was clicking up to castle. I'm pretty sure the AI got sick of getting properly pounded by castle age spears. So I have to run some of these feudal rushes for a while so I can properly play around them.
Is it not worth going 21 pop archers at my ELO of around 1.1k? Cause this bo of yours seems pretty slick and makes me feel like forgetting 21 pop archer builds xD... What do you think?
@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 I think so too, but it'd interesting to see if you go up at a lower pop with Mongols just for the science. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I bet you could go up really early, maybe with a later second range but an earlier archer raid.
@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 11. Thought it could've been a scouts rush like this Archer rush. But np will be waiting for this as well. And good luck for RBW mate
One civ you didnt mention that i think might even be the best for this is mongols. The fast hunt caused people to see the early uptime with them much sooner than with other civs which is why i probably associate them with this type of build
Fast hunt is good for the early food boost, but it also means your hunters will be finished faster. So they will have to spend valuable wood on seeding farms earlier, so it could mess up the timing when you hit feudal leaving you without enough wood to make double range + blacksmith + constant archer production.
I would say celts can be good in that, because u already chop faster. And this build is very tight on wood in beggining. Good drush on woodline would probably shut it down.
