This is the last video on Stellantis. What brands should be saves, which ones are for the chop? Lovely C5 X7-specific 3D-printable models at www.cgtrader.c...
The problem with Stellantis is not Europe its North America. As for Europe just drop DS, it was a bad idea from the get go, and for premium why bother with Lancia when you have Alfa Romeo & Maserati? Aside from in Italy, Lancia burnt its bridges across Europe years ago and would take a heap of money to try & re-establish it outside of Italy. As for Peugeot, Citroen & Vauxhall/Opel I don't see a problem!
I think in the states I would keep Ram the rest I would trash Jeep is nothing but Fiat engineering reliability just isn't there Sedans just aren't being bought every one wants Suvs or pickup trucks the quality of all of them has to vastly I'mprove
American here. Chrysler makes only one vehicle, a minivan. The Chrysler Pacifica, could become the Dodge Caravan, which it once was. and nothing would be lost. Dodge currently makes four vehicles, one of which, the Hornet, is a rebadged Alfa Romeo, and does not sell. The Charger is becoming electric, which will probably ruin it. The Challenger which is, I believe, going away, and they make an SUV. Ram used to be called the Dodge Ram, and could be again. Ram makes seven versions of the same truck, and a van that is basically a Mercedes. All three of these could be rolled into Dodge and nothing would change except the confusing branding. Jeep is an icon and should never go away, but they have become way too expensive and cushy. A Jeep is something you remove the doors and hose out after a day of off roading. Another note, I am a long time Alfisti. I have owned five of them. I test drove a Stelvio and hated it. Give me a Giulia with a non-turbo V-6 and a manual transmission and they might have me back. The 2.5L V-6 from the 1980s is perhaps the finest engine I have ever driven, and I have owned two Ferraris--a V8 and a V12. Oh, and make my Giulia a 2 door coupe please.
Seems glaringly obvious that (besides the overwhelming market failure of ever expensive Crossovers) the biggest laggard is Chrysler and the US Market in general. Seems glaringly obvious why Stellantis couldn't just rebadged their Citroën or Peugeot models into Chryslers, instead of expensive crossover Alfa Romeo ibto a Dodge Dart ...
Jeep is the only Chrysler brand on solid footing. Dodge won't survive the move away from ICE powertrains and Ram has become an albatross with the collapse of the mega-$$$ pickup truck market.
Not a fan of SUVs but I have to disagree on the Alfa one: Look at Porsche. They got almost bankrupt with their sports cars in the 90s, until they launched the Cayenne and later the Macan. Today, these two models are the Cash cows that get Porsche enough money to develop sports cars like the GT3 RS. So as Stellantis can't afford brands that are losing money, Alfa needs to sell loads of "mainstream SUVs" to fund building "niche" sports cars like 4C/8C and Giulia, which didn't really sell too well as demand is quite low.
As an Alfectionado, I agree completely with your take on what had happened to Alfa. The Guilia is lovely, but they should do it as a sportwagon too. And the rest of the stable is disappointing. No idea why they seem so reluctant to give it free reign to do what they do best
American here. CDJR is OK. Chrysler and Dodge need more generic product (crossovers crossovers crossovers). More broadly, I have always felt like about 1/3 of car brands have been on limited time since the GFC, and Stellantis has bought the majority of them. Very curious to see how this all plays out.
Great analysis and love the strategic way forward! I’m all in! I’m especially invested as I have an Alfa and need to ensure there’s a future as I plan to keep the car a long time. I’m in the U.S. so this is especially challenging with the dealership closures.
7:25 The problem with Stellantis is they're continuing the terrible brand strategy of GM. You have a British brand and a German brand, neither of which is for sale around the world or that capitalizes on what people expect from those countries (German engineering, British elegance and coolness, etc.). GM wouldn't allow its German brand to be sold outside its core market for fear of cannibalizing the likes of Buick. Crazy. And keeping Vauxhaull as a UK-only rebadge is ludicrous. Either kill it or turn it into a proper worldwide maker, even with only one or two models.
I would do the following, with competing brands to give an ideia: Low cost (Dacia) - FIAT (exept the 500/600, they have their own market) Generalist sporty (SEAT) - Peugeot Generalist all-around (Skoda) - Citroen Semi-premium (VW) - Opel/Vauxhall Premium (BMW) - Alfa Romeo Premium SUV (Land Rover) - Jeep (they are also sold in Europe) Luxury (Rolls Royce) - Maserati Ditch Lancia and DS. They are two brands that doesn't sell in volume enough to justify their existance
For the US, Dodge is the generalist brand, Chrysler the premium, Jeep an premium SUV and RAM makes trucks and commercial vehicles. I would keep them as it is, but try to get newer platforms for Dodge and Chrysler, that have very outdated models. They could use some european ones, I guess
I would swap places FIAT with Citroen, since Citroen is already being positioned as Dacia competitor. Also Opel/VX will never be anything close to premium, no way after all those years being peopels car under GM.
@@GrzegorzMikos as a former owner of an Astra I couldn't agree more - opel is a trashy brand with a long gone story of decent rides (and even than they were on a rather lower quality side).
@@GrzegorzMikos FIAT is already producing low cost cars: the Panda and the Tipo. It won't change what is doing, neiter with Citroen that didn't produce low cost cars apart from the C-Elysee About Opel/Vauxhall, I thought about their lineup in the mid-to-late 2000s. Well built cars, reliable, confortable and technological advanced with the right equipment packages. The Opel models before that generation had it all, but they were unconfortable due to the hard seats they used on that time. After that one they lost build quality and reliability. Bring back the golden days and it can battle with VW
One thing that i would add is that brands like lancia, alfa romeo and expecially maserati are suffering of a terrible brand reputation. Cars like the giulia or the mc20 are (theoretically) very nice machines mechanically speaking, but nobody is buying them because of the brand. Investing successfully in them would mean firstly solving that issue but i don't really see stellantis doing much about it.
Owner of Citroen C5 X7 estate here. How would it be if Ineos buys Citroen and bring back to life again Hydractive and nice designs (with HDi engines or others)? Just a bomb idea dropped here💨
Only Maserati and Alfa Romeo make luxury cars but don't sell... All the Stellantis brands not makes and not sells premium and luxury cars and this is the questions, in the 60s, 70s and 80s there are Opel Rekord and Admiral Diplomat, Peugeot 504, Citroen DS and CX, Fiat 130 and Dino, Lancia Thema etc etc : now... And this is the problem
I've been a Citroen fan since my 1982 Visa II Spécial. The brand thrived on being slightly quirky, different, and (above all) comfortable. Relying on just 2 engines across all the brands is business sense, I suppose, but monumentally dull. I think you've given an excellent starting point for what could happen. But i doubt it'll be even considered: senior management seem severely hearing-impaired to reasonable argument. I too hope the Citroen brand survives. I'm not sanguine.
@@x.kasiouris5503 This isn't about how the brands are now but what they could and should be. Citroen has some history with luxury that Peugeot doesn't.
Good analysis. Personally I'd keep DS as a badge for premium models across the Citroen range, much as Abarth is to Fiat. I get that selling to a Chinese buyer might raise useful cash but it is too iconic a name to dispose of.
Peugeot - boring fleet Peugeots Alfa Romeo - Sporty Peugeots and real Alfas Citroen - Quirky Luxury Peugeots and budget Maseratis Opel - Budget Peugeots DS - a badge for the top spec of Citroens Lancia - Rally Peugeots.
Fascinating, thank you. Airbus / Citroen YEA! Lancia....who are they? Ugly cars that rusted away before we all dug our eyes out rather than look on another minute. Not sure if anyone would miss Vauxhall either, although the Vivaro van is OK if the gearbox lasts more than the warranty.
I suppose that by a process of illimination, Vauxhall/Opel being placed below Peugeot/Citroën in terms of prestige makes them well below Dacia. Peugeot and Citroën have never, ever been considered a prestige brand, ever. The DS, GS and SM were wonderfully quirky pieces of design with metal the same gauge as Bacofoil. As a car nut from the 70s and having owned and driven them all, they were wonderful. However, prestige. Nah......😂
Let me see: FIAT- value for money with italian design Citroën- value for money with focus on confort and technology Peugeot- the french equivalent to VW Opel- the cousin that will be okay in everything, but won't impress your heart Alfa Romeo- with an improvement in quality control and improved plastics you could see a strong opponent against audi RS models, mercedes A-class AMG, mini JCW and BMW M sport. Lancia- kill it, it's already dead DS- makes absolutely no sense, kill it Maserati- the brand reputation is dead, kill it too Chrysler- kill it with fire Jeep- turn it into a more fashionable brand, they could be the next Range Rovers; Dodge and Ram: sell it to ford or GM. Stellantis has to focus on europe and southern America. Stellantis failed in China, India and North America. They just have to accept that, and focus on new models and find a solution for their crappy 1.2 puretech engine.
This commentary is a bit Eurocentric by suggesting the company should be split into a European and North American divisions. It totally ignores the weight of South America, more specifically Brazil. If Fiat still exists is because of the huge numbers of Fiat cars sold over here. For some reason, European, British and American youtubers seem to totally ignore the South American continent and its weight within Stellantis.
Bro the US market is generic boxy SUV and generic boxy pick up truck, you got less cars, you hot less brands and the ones you have from the Stellantis group are not let's say the powerhouses they are more like the zombies taht survived via merges and as for the south American what do they have? Fiat?
So much of an idea, well Opel in that part should be part of GM again, to say improve the product lineup of Chevrolet and revive the Pontiac brand, and Maserati will sold to Ford yet Ford Mustangs being manufactured in Italy could be a good reason to say have one of the top to say a corvette killer and also one of to a lack of a better word the Ford equivalent of the Buick Grand National of all sorts of a Mustang made in Italy; yet another way for the Ford GT being an Italian import in North America to say it will have a Maserati twin similar to say the Toyota Supra and the BMW Z4, for lack of a better word Ford’s Corvette competitor is imported from Italy if sold in the US.
I agree Opel and Vauxhall should be sold back to GM and better utilized globally. You could easily sell Opels globally or build them and put the Chevrolet name on the globally as they sold Opels as Chevrolets in the past and they sold Chevrolets globally as well. They should bring back Pontiac and Oldsmobile and Holden and utilize a better brand strategy. I knew Stellantis was in bad shape in North America, but they are in deep globally. Volkswagen is how managing multiple brands. You have the marketing and branding and strategy correct.
@@OLDS98 Maserati to Ford as to say a first of having the Ford GT build outside North America that it becomes an import from Italy if sold in North America, and the first Ford Mustang made outside the US also in Italy; like some Maserati special or Ford’s version of the GNX more prestige to say a corvette killer or the Super Mustang to be nicknamed that also is a plus to sell the Ford Mustang easier access to the European, Asian, and Australian markets to say the Mustang sold in Australia becomes an import from Italy. Yet the Holden brand well, they will sell a car from China based on a Buick, if you could wonder of selling the Holden Envision to say end up being a Holden made in China, and probably other Buick vehicles from China to include a minivan as to say Australia’s most beloved or say best selling minivan is an import from China and sold by Holden. Chrysler on the other hand, should become a monopoly in the police departments and settle in to be sold by Toyota, but in a way Ram dethrone Ford and yet probably Toyota acquires the company that makes the Humvee to make a mix of Toyota models along with Chrysler branded products to say a Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200, to be a rebadged Camry; settle up with Ram and Jeep making a version of the Hilux to dethrone the Ford Ranger. To say that so Chrysler in vehicles used for the North American market when it comes to be used by government agencies becomes more like a Microsoft within the PC world, very common. That means Toyota buying the Chrysler brand meaning all of Dodge, Ram, and Jeep end up with the military using vehicles made by the same company that makes the vehicles used by the Taliban and ISIS. Yet the Dodge police cars becomes a monopoly in North America, as to Chrysler makes a presidential car that is also will be used for the PM of Japan. With Toyota purchasing Chrysler it will have Toyota to dethrone Volkswagen as the number 1 spot in the biggest auto manufacture putting Chrysler on the same spot as GM did in North America.
Stellantis is the biggest pile of shit in the car industry; why would you consolidate and gather so many dead or dying brands that are in the same sector??? Peugeot, Opel and Citroen do the same thing and compete with each other directly on the market. You need to sell 2 of them, leave 1 of them with the other ones. Invest properly in Alfa as sports brand, maserati as super car brand, ditch the rest perhaps - DS was stupid idea to be honest. Invest in engines/powertrains and you are gold! They have already the designs!
Opel has been flourishing under stellantis right the first year it got handed to Stellantis. The Mokka-e gets sold like hotpockets. Having a german brand is too important. Also, there are no real french luxury car brands, and DS would fill that gap. I would make Maserati strictly into an exclusive hypercar brand to rival bugatti and Ferrari. Make Alpha Romeo into an italian luxury brand compared to Fiat,like VW does to Audi. Opel would have to need a similar approach to cupra to stand out and make it into a sporty car brand for younger people.
As well as comfortable cars Citroen has a reputation for affordable cars of the people, the 2 CV, Saxo, AX, Visa for example and you didn't mention the Berlingo (ok there are derivatives Rifter, Combo Life, Doblo. Pro ace City). I own a Berlingo. It's not the car of my dreams, it's the car of my needs being disabled. Huge boot with a low lip, affordable, dependable, just not exciting, unless you use it as a micro camper and go wild camping. Perhaps Citroen could be the affordable range?
IMO there's no real need to cut American brands since Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Ram effectively functions as one brand - they have one marketing organization and one dealer channel except for a handful of legacy freestanding Jeep dealerships. I would fold Ram back into being Dodge Truck and reserve the Ram model name for the full-size 'Murica pickups and raid the Brazilian Fiat line for cheaper compact cars than the overpriced Alfa Tonale-based Hornet.
@@comcarclub Ah yes that make sense. Have to say The Idea for how to Opel Brand should go forward is a nice idea. With the Addition that should have never went without the Insignia Lineup. In my Opinion these were great Cars. GM Should have never sold Opel to PSA.
@@RexorProxer You think so? It made constant losses under GM and returned to profitability under PSA. Would you have preferred it to be sold to someone else?
Jeep is the most valuable in North America. With a good following around the World. Ram is a money maker and only as long as people buy trucks. It is a one pony show. Risky and stupid. Should merge back into Dodge and operate together. Chrysler has been decimated and shiuld be sold for its name and rebuilt as a new entity. A niche player. Dodge has some potential and should also be sold to another entity and be another niche player.
I'm a massive Citroën fan and I just love it when I see the double chevron on a car. My 2006 C4 diesel break is the best car I've ever had. It does 70 MPG. It's the one with the split rear screen and the spoiler. Beautiful car. I'm not a fan of the DS badging. I would get rid of it. I would never buy a Vauxhall/Opel as I remember the monstrosities they used to bring out. Fiat is good, especially when it comes to small cars.
Hm if not Airbus, how about Dassault Aviation buying Citroen. That's a French industrial giant, high-tech, aerodynamic aviation company. I like Citroen, especially the glory days under Michelin. Hey. Waitaminute! How about Citroen going back home to Michelin. I'd like that.
I have owned directly and indirectly DS, GS, Diane and CX Citroens. Since those cars Citroen completely lost their mojo. I do not care if they go bust and close. Though their electric concept car (you know the ones they never make) was the old Citroen. Way out their, totally funky and totally desirable. A completely marmite car rather than a Stellantis waffle covered in high fructose corn syrup. Not to be of course so bye Citroen, you have been a long time dying.
Mate, you’re talking about badge engineering with Abarth Every new Citroen is a rebadged cheapened off Peugeot. There aren’t 8 brands, Abarth is just a hotted up FIAT. But they are (were with petrol) absolutely great fun though. Opel is rubbish, the old man of GM days. But the workers in Germany are protected from closing. It needs closing down. Lancia, My heroes from rallying days sells very, very few cars. Close them down too. DS? Close it down. Peugeot? Keep pushing the slightly upmarket family cars (all fur coat & no knickers though!) Citroen? Cheap quirky family hatchbacks, but they won’t survive! FIAT keep pushing the brand, as the working man’s car. They, in petrol form are very good cars! Alfa Romeo? More history than Ferrari!!! Sports luxury brand! Maserati luxury grand tourer Dodge? Carry on making muscle cars hybrids too Chrysler keep on with value saloon cars also hybrids too. Ram? Update with new models Sergio Marchionne (Fiat) invested in those South American companies. The French government still own Renault don’t they? It’s a complete control EU rules but it’s a French thing so they get away with it. So: the name Abarth continues under FIAT. Lancia, Opel, DS to close. Not sold, the Chinese will buy them but selling them to the Chinese would mean you are creating more competition, which no one needs.
Based on VW group Peugeot as tha basis. (Platform and engines) for 4 brands citron and opel as the budgets with a bit of diversification for local regions. Peugeot as the quality brand going head to head with VW Lancia become the Audi rivals on semi luxury. Joint management of Lancia and Alfa to build like minded products in the same factories (locally market their products coupes super saloons and sporty SUVs) Maserati sell it to Ferrari so that can make entry level products to their cars ) fiat outside of Italy as the budget brand to contuie resellinng tech to budget markets and developing counties. Lancia to enter the North America market as a replacement for Chrysler (America know the success of the delta but doesn't know the damage of the 70 and 80s that Alfa suffers with built in America focusing on the many Italian traditions in places like New York (get them into every New York based to programme) this could rival Cadillac (America made Italian passion) Ps I would like to be the ceo of the Lancia /alfa division Can you please do a follow up video on peoples suggestion in the comments Brilliant serious of videos
To ditch DS, Lancia Budget: Fiat (as always very cheap proposal and good in emerging market Then can focus brand on sport (Maserati,alpha), Citroen for comfort/ tech and Peugeot/opel and traditional family company cars
Switzerland sales rank jan-may 2024 (don't have the numbers after that) alfa 31-citroen 23-ds 36-fiat 19-jeep 28-maserati 33-opel 20-peugeot 16 top 5 are vw>bmw>skoda>mercedes>audi additionnal info between 23 and 24 alfa lost -37% sales jeep -49,9% maserati -35% peugeot -9% for alfa and jeep it's my point of view but their prices are way too high for what they offer, why would I pay 44k for a 130hp 1.6l Alfa tonale they are insane for that price you get 2nd hand cars that have 1.5-2x more hp and like 4000miles and 1 year from better brands too seat skoda bmw mercedes do I want a 280hp mercedes or a 130hp diesel tonale that has "1 year less"
Lancia sells better than Alfa Romeo. The Ypsilon alone in Italy sold more than Alfa worldwide some years ago. I'm quite excited with Lancia return to rally, the brand was never in a shape as bad as Alfa, there's good commercial potential in the Delta and in the Ypsilon. Opel sells more than Peugeot and Citroen in the largest european market (Germany). I would sell Alfa Romeo, it had too many opportunities in the past and failed every time. Time to give Lancia a chance.
Getting rid of Opel outright and converting Vauxhall to PSA platforms may be the best move. Opel is largely an afterthought in Germany, and probably cannibalizes Peugeot sales in other European markets.
Vauxhall should go and UK cars badged as Opel. German cars are popular in the UK but Vauxhall are seen as a cheap brand, so badging them as Opel may well help sales.
Opel definitely has unique brand recognition in Finland. People still fondly remember cars like Omega, Calibra, Kadett and Manta. Astra and Vectra were the very first car for a lot of people of my generation born in turn of 1990's. Meanwhile I think Peugeot is kind of car people who don't really care about cars end up buying. I don't see them sharing much the same customer base here.
More like VW - Peugeot Skoda - Citroen Seat - Opel Cupra - DS Audi - Alfa Romeo Are Lancia cause no one bellow 40 knows the brand and tell fiat to build actual cars and maybe just have em cheap practical and kinda sporty
Yeah sell it to the Americans or to say the Yanks, they might even have a Mustang inspired Maserati, to say a Mustang made in Italy with all the toys and a very big threat on the Corvette to say the Ford Italian made Corvette killer.
Lancia and DS needs to be dropped. You cannot all of a sudden make Lancia "premium" when they had a crappy little ypsilon budget box for the last 20 years and some rebadges. You cannot come and just say "get the Lancia Grand Stratos" instead of a bmw X5 or a Mercedes GLE. That's totally not feasible. Lancia and DS need to be axed/ sold and make Maserati the mega premium brand with cool SUVs and get a Urus-like SUV to blow VW Lamborghini out of the water
Talking about cost cutting and investments. Please invest in a propper microphone. Its difficult for a non native speaker to understand you from the iPhone microphone. Anyway, good content and sharp conslusions. Cheers from germany
I hear you. I agree and getting the right sound is a pain since decent microphones are a fortune. I will also try to improve my pronunciation. I want you to know I really value all non-English speaking viewers and want them to enjoy these videos
Citroen must be the innovative brand. Alpha the sporty. Peugeot, middle of the road. Core. Ferrari, super car. Sell Maserati! Ditch, DS Fiat for small cars and commercial vehicles. Dump Dodge, keep RAM, for US. Sell Opel to the Germans. Lancia is already dead.
Fiat and Alfa Romeo should leave the North American market, Fiat can be saved, in my home country Brazil, I see a lot of people driving Fiat, so I think it can be saved. Now Lancia and Chrysler or sold or shut down, the North American division should be Dodge, Jeep, and RAM, I live in North America and I lived in Brazil for 14 years so I know the car market there.
Com centenas de especialistas em gestão the empresas automóvel no RU-vid, em que todos sabem como resolver os problemas que o Tavares não consegue, não sei porque razão os italianos e os avecs estão na situação que estão. Não deve haver RU-vid em França e nem em Itália. O Tavares deve ter mel.
I stopped watching as soon as you admitted you don’t know anything about us brands. There’s zero point having an opinion piece like this about a business at all if you don’t even know the whole picture to begin with. You’ve just made a bunch of non educated guesses with no value.
