In the church on the wall in Wareham there are 6th/7thC 'headstones' also baring brythonic names and the volumes of features in the environment around Dorset suggests significant continuity of the populous after it became part of Wessex
Sounds like the pear tree must have been a well known feature in the landscape just like the hoar-apple tree that Harold's army camped by on the eve if the Battle of Hastings.
@peterkitson2843 in Old English hoar mean grey haired with age. But then again, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle translation that I have access to gives William of Normandy the title Earl not Duke. This is a modern translation, and after almost a 1,000 years, it shouldn't have such an error. Unless it is a true translation of what was originally written, and I have no doubts that it is. Which means I find your argument fatuous and pointless.
Thank you for today’s walking tour as always. The conversation makes them more understandable. Always a pleasure trip to watch. As always, hello to Rebecca and have a great week ahead, Paul. See you on the next. Cheers mate! 🇬🇧🙂👍🇺🇸
Fascinating -- thank you for sharing Paul's search/knowledge! And it's good that the landowners allowed you to walk their property in narrowing down the location of the barrow, and explaining the post-Roman history of that area!
Very interesting post. Cerdic is a Brythonic name - in welsh Ceredig and in Roman latin Caracticus. His two successors, Cynric and Cealwin are also British. After them they are all Germanic/Saxon names - which would suggest Romano British leaders, descending from Roman officials who hired Saxon mercenaries as muscle and who may have eventually been overthrown in favour of Saxon leadership, which very much echos the Vortigern story.
The last Cerdicing king to have a Brythonic name was Caedwalla (Cadwallon) who reigned in the 680s; also Cynegils looks Brythonic - Cuneglassus/Cynglas, meaning 'blue-hound'. There is absolutely no reason for any overthrow, but every reason for later kings of the house to claim descent from incomers coming across the North Sea. I doubt that the ancestry of a successful war leader was of any account to his followers, just as long as he was able to supply land and plunder.
@@urseliusurgel4365 I was specifically talking about Wessex Kings - and I agree there is no reason for a overthrow - but Usurping was a very common practice - so no reason to rule it out either. History in this era is not well documented and even the best sources are subject to speculation.
@@stevegasparutti8341 I also was specifically talking about the kings of Wessex, the royal house of Wessex was called the 'Cerdicings', after Cerdic. However, before the reign of Caedwalla they were usually called the kings of the Gewissae. There is plenty of evidence that the Cerdicings were split into various branches and it is probable that subkings existed within Wessex. It is more likely that political instability was the result of internecine feuds between branches of the Cerdicings, than that they were usurped.
The Pear Tree. I grew up in a valley in Appalachia in America that was surveyed by a teenage George Washington. He used landmarks like the big oak tree, walnut tree, ash tree or large rock. If you wonder what part of Appalachia, it is the western part named for England’s Virgin Queen.
Hi Paul, very interesting investigation and really well presented. I'm amazed that they were able to keep track of time back then. I shall have a look out for that book next time I'm over. Good to see the cooperation from the local farmers. Have a great week!!
people have been excellent at chronicling time for many millenia. just a small example - i saw a book in Melk, Austria this year that was written in the 1100's and had a 1 sentence summary of every year's events across Europe. A check on Wikipedia showed it was completely accurate, for events in Italy, England, Istanbul and eveyrwhere in between. Humans have always craved to know what happened far away, and important people made sure their own deeds are written for posterity. Even tyrants like Putin are doing exactly the same today.
@@idjles True, but the period between 410 and around 550 is the one in which we have almost no written evidence pertaining to southern and eastern Britain. In essence proto-History had returned, so there is no evidence that Cerdic existed, any more than King Arthur existed. The best we can say is that this may be the tomb of a man who might have been the first king of Wessex.
A pear tree can live and produce copious numbers of fruit, nice to eat, fresh or preserved, in maturity they usually produce fruit every other year, there are 3 trees near me that are well over 200 years old, so an imposing, known and useful tree would make an obvious land marker.
The myth that people "barely lived into their 30s" is caused by the fact that the AVERAGE age of death was so low, but this figure is skewed by an extremely high infant mortality rate. People living on organic food, who don't sit around playing computer games, who spend their entire lives out in unpolluted air do not just drop dead at 30! 😂
Battles, disease, even an infected cut...a harsh year with crop failure or dying livestock, getting soaked and freezing whilst on a journey. Many reasons life could be all too short, for a great many at that time. Not to mention raiders of every ilk !!! Hence, his apparent age is quite noteworthy.
These people were genetically identical to us. In pre-urban Britain, without the crowded living conditions that would exacerbate the spread of infectious diseases, there is no reason to suppose they wouldn't have had similar lifespans to us. Only birth problems (bad design) and violent death would have provided higher mortality figures.
Cerdic had a pack with Cunomorus of Dumnonia (Dorset) And cermented his alliance With Dumnonia by marrying Cunomorus daughter who bore him a son Cynric. Further proof of the importance of Cerdic in the eyes of his fellow British kings.
A source would be fab, I’m fascinated by King Mark. Ignore stupid comments about spelling. It’s a comment section not a spelling bee. Also I thought you were going for a pun - CERdic CERmented his power. Brilliant.
LOL ! I live in the Appalachian Mountains of Northeast Tennessee, U.S.A. Here there are plenty of pieces of land where landmarks on old deeds are trees, and these deeds are less than a century old.
Have been fascinated by Cerdic for a long time. I believe he is a British prince who lost his kingdom to Nud Lud and returned with a group or Saxon Mercenarys to reclaim his kingdom. He apparently had very good local knowledge and used the local Roman roads. His first battle could have been at a hillfort at Tatchbury mount near Neltley Marsh. He had an up understanding of the Saxon language. A man with a similar name is mentioned as a translator at Sarum when the Saxons betrayed the British during peace talks assassinating Important Chieftains. There is also a connection with the Welsh king of Powys believed to be king Arthur ( see Graham Phillips the real king Arthur) So in summary I believe Cerdic to be a major historic figure. A Keltic king with a kingdom bordering on the Saxons.
Hi Peter thanks for your comment. Very interesting that you mention Graham Phillips as after my research on battles between warlords and kingdoms believe his theory on Arthur being Owain Danwyn is fascinating, it could certainly explain the Camlann aspect of the legend!
@@PaulHarper82- Sorry to disappoint, but I traced all of the 'dark ages' using historical records, and I can tell you there was never a Welsh King Arthur.There was a Somerset King Arthur, and a Pennines King Arthur (the one where we get Arthur's Seat in Edinburgh, and then he went on to Camelon fields near the old Roman fort near Sterling.). They found Arthur of the North's grave years ago, but because of secrecy, we now no longer know where it is. They found a ring baring Arthur's name, that could only be read after casting it into a fire, and this is believed to be where Tolkien got the idea of the One ring. We knew more about Arthur in Tolkiens day, thanks to using genuine sources and not modern hear-say. Cerdic did fight with Arthur of the South, most likely. Here is my notes with rough dates. 514 Cerdicesora / Cerdic's Ore Arrival of more West Saxons in Wessex who fight for Cerdic. in three ships, at the place that is called Cerdic's-ore. And Stuff and Wihtgar fought with the Britons, and put them to flight. The Saxons Stuf and Wihtgar landed and defeated the Britons. 519 - Charford, Hampshire (Nennius) West Saxons fought with the Arthur and the Britons at a place now called South Charford on Avon, Som. Charford (Cerdicesford). King Cerdic of the West Saxons, with his son Cynric, defeated the Britons. From that day have reigned the children of the West-Saxon kings. 518/19 - Natanleaga / Netley This year Cerdic and Cynric slew a British king, whose name was Natanleod, and five thousand men with him (now Hampshire). Uther was ill and appointed Nathan to take care of the landing. The Saxons swept the field with ease. After this Cerdic owned the land from Cerdic's ford named Natanleaga (Netley) from him, as far as Charford (now Hampshire). Cerdic and his son Cynric defeated the British king Natanleod at Netley, Hants. 519 Cerdic was crowned King of Wessex. Cerdic and Cynric undertook the government of the West-Saxons. 520: Saxons took control of Sussex, Kent, East Anglia and part of Yorkshire, West Saxons now founded a Kingdom in Hampshire under Cerdic. 527 This year West Saxons Cerdic and Cynric fought with the Britons in the place that is called Cerdic's-ley. 533 Death of Cerdic of Wessex. This year died Cerdic, the first king of the West-Saxons. Cynric his son succeeded to the government, and reigned afterwards twenty-six winters. And they gave to their two nephews, Stuff and Wihtgar, the whole of the Isle of Wight.
Hi thanks for your view, Arthur is a whole other debate, and there are many many theories but I find Graham Philips' one concerning Owain Danwyn very compelling! Support Dumville's view that Cerdic reigned later between 538 and 554. I theorize he was either a British or part British-Jutish ruler who employed Jutes confederates. The chronicle doesn't actually say a battle was fought at Natanleaga, it was almost certainly North Charford - there's a reference to a 'battle ford' in this location in an very old charter and it was also called 'Cerdeford' in the Domesday Book. Moreover, the 'leod' element of Natanleod means 'prince, chief, leader' in Old English. It is, however, all open to considerable interpretation with the lack of historical records - that's why I find this discovery so exciting! @@lifeschool
@@PaulHarper82- As compelling as it may be, Owain was named Owain (pronounced Euwan) , not Arthur. People also get confused with Athrwys ap Meurig (c. 605-655), with Athrwys ap Mor/Mar (c.450-520). As for Cerdic, we only have Nennius and Wendover as a reference for him, and I find the truth is usually 100 times more boring than the fantasy stories.
Arthur is the Old Welsh for 'bear', which Gildas uses when referring to Cuneglasus (Owain's son). Maelgwn (Mordred) killed his uncle (most likely Owain) says Gildas, Owain's father matches Uther Pendragon. Philips suggests Camlann was fought on the border of Powys and Gwynedd near the River Camlad. Many other theories are plausible as well and as you say probably more boring than the legend! I wouldn't equate the interpreter in Nennius with Cerdic who seemed to reign much later. This is a more convincing reference from a Royal charter to Cerdic's actual burial site which seems to have been very deliberately placed.
Your videos are most interesting. Thank you for sharing a window into your world. Sorry if my English isn't all there, it's not my first language. 💕 ^^
I’ve been doing the same thing with Beornwulf. Ham. A charter that references Beow. Aethelstan. The reality of Beowulf. I have written a book about it that’ll be out soon. Give me a shout if you want to read it and then make another video. It’s incredible stuff.
I just received this book, it is gripping from the very start. Fascinating read, thank you for making me aware of this book and the subject matter it looks at.
That's fantastic of you to say, and much appreciated. I'm not sure if you purchased via Amazon but if you have the time a rating or review would be good :)
Excellent video! I ordered the book - I've been interested in this area of history because a branch of family has been around around the time of the Viking raids.
Good interesting vid. One minor point (being the pedant that I am), the two instances of the letter C in the name Cerdic are pronounced like the modern English digraph.
This is consistent with the pronunciation of Vulgar Latin in the 6th century and with the reconstruction of proto-Welsh, but I would not be so dogmatic, especially about the pronunciation of the final -c especially if the following word began with a back vowel.
It would be amazing to think he could be buried there! I think it's more likely that the barrow is much older though. There's an Iron Age cemetery near here that's come to be known as Dane's Graves and a lot of prehistoric monuments are now associated with King Arthur.
Always amazes me how small things lead to big discoveries. As in the Roman stone tablet in The Grosvenor museum in Chester, which depicts a roman (Sub roman) light cavalryman named Arthur. Yes it's still there for all to see........... Makes you wonder.
I got excited then, as I thought for a moment you were suggesting he was burried in Chiseldon due to 4:35, but it's supposedly Andover. Again, well constructed and informative vid. Loving your channel 👍
Actually, the use of trees as boundary markers was a long established practice. Even down to the American Colonies. When George Washington was hired to survey the lands that became the Mid-West States, he used large trees as markers. Some of them became famous. These people were not thinking about history.
It was mentioned that the story was in doubt because his reign was 39 years, but "most people were lucky to live into their late thirties". I thought this was a misunderstanding of the statistics and average age was late thirties but most of this was due to child births and, if we excluded those, it would be average age of sixties. Do you have some more info on this?
Hi thanks for your comment the whole timeframes are questionable. The periods of Cerdic are given 39 years, Cynric 65 and Ceawlin 35. Yet other more plausible sources say Cerdic 22 (16 year reign, from six years after landing) Cynric 27 and Ceawlin 7 or 17. And it's likely the shadowy Creoda, Cerdic's son, should be placed there somewhere. Found the Roman emperors between 193 and 476 averaged 46 years. The study of six contemporary Anglo Saxon sites found the age ranged from 31.6 to 40.3 for men and 30.2 to 42.2 for women. In the main it seems the life expectancy was relatively low, and you have to factor in the impact of the volcanic winter and plague also. The most logical conclusion is that the reigns of most if not all the sixth century Wessex kings were extended. Thanks, Paul
Another fascinating story. I just wish to make a point about Paul's assertion that "this was a time people were lucky to live into their thirties", and I have heard other historians make similar statements. I have no doubt that he is about right with average ages but I would suggest that every village or tribe would have some people in their fifties or sixties and occasionally even older. I did some statistics on a number of Dorset villages where there are excellent burial records for the 1600's. Yes the average age at death was around fourty by then but one can say with near certinty that anyone reaching say 21 at that time would have personally met or known someone of at least 80 and probably knew of someone in a nearby village that was over 90 or even 100. Sounds surprising that what my limited research showed. Maybe an interesting topic to look into, could be something that would interest Rebecca?
Yup it is quite a tricky one. Indeed the notion that the average age is low because of infant mortality is definitely a thing. However in an unsettled era probably 1000 years before most parish records I think living beyond 50 would have been rare. In fact arch records from burial chambers and such often show this to be the case.
Hi thanks for your comment. From research it does appear the average age was between 30-40. As you rightly say, there are surely examples of people living much longer but in the main life expectancy appears very low compared to modern standards.
I found cerdics barrow years ago. It's scheduled ancient monument in Stoke exactly where the Saxon chronicles say it is. We had archeologist out there.
Hi thanks for your comment. There is a barrow in Stoke of the same name but this doesn't fit with the charter at all. I believe the connection stems from how a Willow Tree Farm - a Willow Tree Grove is the next landmark after Cerdic's Barrow in the charter - is situated next to this particular barrow in Stoke. The site I believe was once called Cerdic's Barrow fits with the charter and is in a very prominent place next to ancient trackways and an Offa's Dyke style ditch. Thanks, Paul
If Cerdic was Romano British, it potentially gives the current toyal family a link through the Wessex lineage back into those times. I find it plausible in any case that Saxons, who were already here as mercenaries in late Roman times may have in some cases been led by the remnants of the Romano British elite.
Cerdic may not have been his birth name but rather the name he was given as a high-ranking foreign mercenary and which he retained as he became a chieftain himself.
I live in downton on the hampshire- wiltshire border in the Avon Valley. Here we have north charford, charford and south charford. Charford is the modern variation on Cerdics Ford, and all 3 points are close to hillfort, an old roman road, and the boundary of the saxon Church at Braemore (all that remains of a huge saxon monastery that envelopes a roman Fort and 2 roman villas), and the old neolithhic-iron age road from Winchester to Weymouth. So I would place him as around here
Paul, speaking from SP10, a great and absorbing local story. As a re-watch is essential, the chapter references are really useful. Well done for helping raise the topic to our attention. I will certainly invest in Paul's book. Incidentally, does the Anglo Saxon Chronicle mention Cedric's adoption of Tweed at any point?
Linguists still can't decide if the name Cerdic is Germanic or "Celtic" in origin. If Germanic then it is pronounced "Cher-dich". If "Celtic" it is just as, if not more likely, a continental "Celtic" name (rather than Brythonic) which would be consistent with the ASC stating he came over with ships to Britain. Of course, he could have been a Saxon foederati descendant commanding Brythons (and Saxons) and who bestowed this Cerdic title onto him. First names themselves do not necessarily denote one's heritage. Clearly he was Anglo-Saxon culturally, linguistically and religiously.
That Anglo-Saxon pronunciation you posit wouldn’t have come about for another hundred years or so as k-fronting hadn’t yet occurred in the early old English period.
Devils ditch at 10 minutes looks like a construction for the collection of water, which was hugely important for obvious reasons. (Think for a second, life without taps!). The ditch looks of similar but larger construction of the groove/leat type tracks cut into the cliff sides in West Cornwall (that the miners did) in order to collect water for the processing buildings. Also, devils ditch looks like the modern ditches constructed in Australia to collect water for the wine growers.
Thank you for your video. It sounds very interesting. IMany a great find happens when an enthusiastic investigator hunts down clues. I wonder though how it will go when other historians review this suggestion. He does seem to make a number of presumptions e.g. where the pear tree and willows are, and only time will tell whether his reading of the text is true or not. Still, it is interesting .
The lack of permanence of a pear tree is not really a problem for a land exchange in the 1st step? It's up to the new owner to ensure the customary boundary of the newly acquired lands is properly recorded as their's locally.
Hi Paul, this is a great video, I will have to watch it again and see if there is any references in the Bede's Ecclesiastical History to see if Cedric is mentioned.
These ditches that appear in the landscape in your area...In a landscape with little stone, I wonder if they are similar to the reaves of Dartmoor? The age is consistent with the reaves, Late Bronze Age. It seems a bit of a coincidence that 'we' were building miles of walls with the ample stone here, whilst 'you' were digging ditches.
@@wendicooper7451 It could possibly be, but when people were building fields as can still be seen in West Cornwall during this period why dig a ditch miles long just for grazing? And what stops the animal simply walking around the side?
Its funny how the word 'British' has to make way for the word 'Brythonic', now that we English Scots and Welsh are all, now, 'British'. Cerdic's name was of course, British.
Nice video. Are they going to dig the site for the archaeological proof? They only know the site of the tomb of Alfred as his family as his body remains unfound. Finding the first of his line should be just as important!
I have been slightly bored by your videos on roman roads. Very quickly I realised this was quite exciting about a period of history which I am interested in.
Wow brilliant video! Can't believe a king from the 6th century has been lying there for so long! Also... how have you only got 100K subscribers?? :) Nice to meet you, Paul!
In 1066 the Saxon forces for the Battle of Hastings were to gather at the Hoary Apple Tree, when they arrived the found the tree was dead, this was taken as a bad omen. Identifiable trees were used as markers and created locations.
Searching for origins is endlessly fascinating but usually very frustrating, especially at this distance in time. This was very informative and enjoyable. Do we know anything of Cerdic's relatives/descendents and where they are likely to be buried.
There's suggestions Challow (Ceawan Hlewe) in Wantage is named after the burial place of Cerdic's warlike grandson Ceawlin and Cuckhamsley Barrow (Cwichelmeshlaew) after the 7th century Gewisse king Cwichelm.
As a descendant of Alfred the Great, who claimed descent from Cerdic, I am very interested in this. Cerdic has a British name, but led a band of Saxons, which is intriguing. The author Rosemary Sutcliffe, who wrote books for schoolchildren aged 9 to 16, and was my favourite author at that age, hinted in her book The Lantern Bearers that Cerdic may be the son of the British king Vortigern and his Saxon wife Rowena. Vortigern was the one who invited the Saxons to Britain to fight the Picts and afterwards they demanded Kent as a reward for winning. Vortigern also was connected to the Hwicce tribe in what is now Gloucestershire, who may also have German origins. This makes sense.
There does seem to be a link between Vortigern and Cerdic. Foederati associated with Vortigern were later described by Bede as Jutes in Kent while Jutes were also present on the Isle of Wight and associated with Cerdic. These two groups seem very close culturally and may have arrived at a similar time. Both Vortigern and Cerdic appear to have employed Germanic confederates to help fight their wars, but Cerdic seemed to arrive much later than Vortigern and his father is listed in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle as Elesa. I do cover this possible connection, it's fascinating and confusing as Cerdic appears to be fighting rival local warlords for territory not Picts or Scots. Thanks.@@AnneDowson-vp8lg
