The Forever Winter Worries A LOT of Players With Water Death 

Before any comments get dropped. I am all for seeing the Devs vision through to the end. I might be nervous about the Water Death Mechanic, but I havn't even gotten my hands into the game yet. I am Eager as hell to test this game out and see how it functions. I don't think there needs to be any major upset about Water Death until we are playing the game. Those of you who are upset with the mechanic, wait for a content creator like myself to give you the truth of the matter and if it really is a system you should be worried about. Until then. Cheers, I look forward to civil discussions with you all.

Easy fix, don't tick it down when you're offline, decrease how much you get from runs, increase how much is used when you're online. Players should not be forced to play the game because there's a ticking timer that resets their progress if they don't meet it's demands.

If water loss happens in the background all the time so you’re punished for not logging on for a week, people will stop playing. Water should deplete when you’re logged in and or when you go on raids. I’m a pretty hardcore gamer and I don’t want to take penalties because I go on vacation or play another game or am busy in real life.

I think a simple solution would be to give players the option to put their game in stasis. No watter loss, but also no offline resource generation either (assuming offline generation or resource sharing will even be a thing).

I would like to add that I had a personal chat with Miles, the CEO, and he mentioned that the water system is a massive WIP and they are actively working to make it more practical and less punishing for folks who cannot play the game often. They've got plans for it to make it so that water death happens from skill issues instead of time commitment issues. Hope this helps :)

Having consequences for not playing the game for a while as a way to keep players coming back is absolutely not the way to do this. A game needs to rope players back in with what it can do FOR the player if they chose to log back in and play, not with what it will deprive them of if they don't. If I want to load up a raid in forever winter, it should be because I want to experience the exciting and tense gameplay, not because I feel like I'm forced to as some sort of chore to prevent me losing all my gear. If these devs want to keep up their little front of "oh we're not like the rest of those yucky game companies with their underhanded practices", they need to do something about this.

Anxiety is fun if it's relieved. I believe the problem with water death is that the anxiety never turns to excitement it just stays anxiety. You should feel accomplished when you find water, not like you're inserting a quarter in order to play the game.

maybe they could add some system allowing people who play a lot to contribute others tank, could reinforce the feeling of needed solidarity for survival

I would love to see a system where at some point you can send out mercenaries on their own little expedition to hunt down water so you can focus on other things other than collecting more water

The biggest issue was after we learned from the closed beta that player were able to get a months worth of water in just a single play session, that it wasn't going to be as brutally hand holding as we feared it would be, the developers said that was more then they expected and they would be adjusting it. It gives this bad taste that the dev are just reactionary developers, look at game developers such as Bungie, Arrowhead, fromsoftware, and so on they don't think about the tweaking they just look at the players and see what get talked about the most by the most popular voices in the community. It make me think the dev will be playing this awful arms race with the player where anytime something the player dose steps just a little bit out side of the imaged bounds ,and is boosted, of what should be happening then here rolls in the nerfs and the buffs to fight the player back into place. Ive been though this disrespectful bs with other game dev enough to not want to waste my time with a new game and new dev team that's is singling that they will act like every other dev in this regard.

Being a father of two and behind in other obligations hits different when youre a father of two trying to solo dev a game (vids under channel). I feel you and im here for it

In foxhole, the chance for enemy to destroy your base is balanced by your efforts always effectively helping the frontline as a whole and the situation being symmetrical: You have a chance of doing the same to the enemy, and that is why both sides keep playing. Also in Foxhole if you lose a base, that means that without your effort, the entire frontline would lose even MORE ground. It was the justified rules of the game that both sides agreed for while playing, where the payoff is that both sides can do the same things to each other. In this game meanwhile, water is an arbitrary timer which the devs can adjust up and down, toggle on and off, and when it comes down to it the end result is that the game actively punishes you if you want to stop playing for any reason at all, and it is completely one-sided. In Foxhole the enemy might stop playing too, the wars are balanced because both teams have players logging in and out at all times. In Forever Winter, it's one-sided and arbitrary, and that is the issue. This mechanic makes the game stop being entertainment and turns it into a job, even if it gets dialed back a bit. I can already imagine everybody who wants to take a break from the game for any reason ever groaning "oh god, time for my monthly water mission..." years down the line, until finally they say "enough is enough" and the fact that they had to say "no" to the game in order to stop being forced by it to keep playing, it will make them not pick the game up ever again more likely than not

Have fun man! Don't burn yourself out with the drama. FAMILY FIRST! You're doing a gret job so far!

From what I understand and heard in the Q/A, the water death will have, at the bare minimum, a month of real-life time, with options to increase it (they were looking into systems for that.) From what I saw from someone playing Beta, it was an 80 day cap- and the Dev's did say they saw people during beta hitting the water cap (30 days or 80) within a single day of playing. Honestly, I think it's a decent mechanic- and I know I'm probably in the minority. I love survival/colony sims- so I'd even welcome mechanics of needing to supply your Innard with other things such as Meds/Food/Moral-needed items, constantly needing to keep your little settlement alive as certain events drain key resources- with a key exception. That ONLY would work as long as the timer is long enough to not aggressively punish offline play, as you said. Be it donation systems, a manual "pause" option, or higher-level systems that generate water/other items (as you said). I think it's a welcome change compared to other mechanics.

Modders will probably figure out how to make the water system much less punishing or just out right remove it

Fun Dog Studios needs to get this water feedback from the community in their skull and decide real early on whether they want to have a game or none at all, full stop.

totally unrelated, but i can somehow see marauders and the forever winter sharing a universe. dunno if i could put it to words but my brain thinks it

They could really use the in game time as a clock instead of making it off line. I get why every game now a days wants to include something to make the players get back to the game but devs should do that by bringing new content, not a punishing system that they built into the game just so we have to play the game 24/7.

yeah, i dont think this is for me. sounds like its just gonna make my entertainment into a job i just recently came back to warframe after being off it for 2 years, i would have deleted it 5 minutes in if i logged in and it told me because i had been gone so long they just deleted my guns

Someone give this man a medal, i will spread your video thru all people i know in the game, great analogy, great ideas.

You don't want people feeling anxiety outside of the game because that contributes to burn out. We have enough things in our life causing anxiety without a video game adding on top of that. There's only so much anxiety a human can handle in their life and the first contributor to get dropped will always be the optional one (i.e. video games).

Civil discussions? On the internet? Inconceivable! Though I will say, the ai pathing needs some work. Often times it looks like they’re going one way, then they backtrack less than five seconds later. Makes it very difficult to even get around them. But I’m sure that will be ironed out too.

That Red Dead Redemption story man, I loved doing that hold out in the fort against NPCs and players, such good memories just came rushing back.

I think the bottom line is none of us want to play a game as if it's a chore, we want to relax and unwind from the chores of daily life, not have more chores in game. A good example is Destiny 2 I play that mostly to do my daily bounties that give materials but then I log off and don't touch it. I don't think that's a healthy aspect for a videogame to have, and the water system is giving me that vibe. The water system is unnecessary for player retention, if that's what they're going for, and just seems like a cumbersome system that adds no benefit.

I’m gonna try to survive.

I really like the potential of this game. As a parent I don't get a whole lot of time for gaming and I totally agree that anxiety while playing is fine, but offline anxiety is a no-go. That's not fun. I will give the devs the benefit of the doubt though in coming up with a viable solution, as I do think they genuinely care about their audience and community good will.

Me and my Helldivers2 & DarkTide40K friends are exited for Forever Winter, but if we are losing resources when away... this game is a no go for us, no matter any arguments. It's simply not worth our time. We have kids and hobby lives outside of computer gaming. Time is the most precious resource in the world, cause it's constantly running out on all of us, and we don't need a water resource in a game to do the same. Any hobby better make sure it's worth spending our limited time on it. If FW don't drop this mechanic like a hot potato we have HD2, DT40K, Baldur's Gate 3 etc to play, where we don't lose resources when away.

If any of the FW devs happen to be skimming comments, is saying this: I can't really play videogames that become a second job. If a videogame, which in the end is a toy for entertainment and escapism from mundane life hits me with "you must play by X time or were going to get rid of your progress/gear/etc" Im just thinking "well I could treat this game like work or I can just work overtime at my real job" Unless your game can beat $300+ of overtime, please don't ask me to approach it as a chore, cause the game is never gonna win that fight.

I think people are overthinking the Water Death mechanic. Water is also consumed for certain operations, so it really makes sense from a mechanical standpoint to have a cap to currency. You could potentially doom yourself if you do a lot in the hub without exploring+scavenging water too and that would be a player's fault. Having it tied as the survivalist aspect of the game makes sense to me, as you don't consume it AS IS from an actual physiological need nor you eat but are consumables for the living quarters/operations. While I understand people disliking Water Death, it's not like you can be raided offline (get your stuff stolen, ganked, etc) like in PvP Survivals where you are ACTUALLY punished for not being there at the right time. It's a rather complicated issue that leaves little space for compromises without flipping the whole game logic/experience out. Loosing progress is hard, yes, but most likely adding difficulty options or the entire removal of the system tampers with the whole experience the devs want to transmit. Loosing essence for accessibility for some folks is not really the best feeling as a game dev standpoint.

They could add a mechanic lets call it "rain collector" what it does is it locks your Water Collection while offline however it does nothing while online so you lose water while playing but not while your busy for a week or two make it a Mid-Tier upgrade too to reward activly playing BUT in return because you now have so much excess water items are 20% more expensive turning off the water collector returns to regular pricing but also turns water loss while offline back on turning on and off has a 48 timer inbetween so - when you turn them on you cant turn them off for 2 days and vise versa at the same time of course infrom players "hey unless you have the rain collector THIS WILL HAPPEN be awear of that"

This is why games have difficulty sliders

My issue is that it preys on the FOMO of players. It is also pretentious to want your game to alter the thinking of people outside of their playtime. This is not their role. And as the first steam comment you showed very well stated, this is not hardcore, just annoying and I'd add manipulative. To me it is a deal breaker and a red flag about the dev team's way of thinking. I'll wait to see how it turned out, but i'm not playing the beta at launch as i had planned to do before this debacle.

Let the water consume while off-line up to a low Point that allows you to survive if you Take a high risk high reward mission.

The running water timer reminds me of Icarus at release. They did a running offline timer for a mission that was a problem for the "I have a life" crowd. After about a year, they let people run their games locally, so the timer only ran when their game was active. I was very happy when they changed that, and the player base grew a ton from having happy people talking about their game. They even added the mission boards, so people didn't have to keep starting new bases. There was a just doing enough mentality, when it was all going to get burned down. That mechanic was great for some, but awful for many.

The issue is the countdown ticking down when you're offline. To be fair tho a 30 day window looks pretty generous, even if youre doing 2 or 3 raids a weeks

I think the default should be that when your not online, you don't use water. There can be a 'hardcore real time' mode for those who want it, but only a very tiny amount of players will ever stick with the game with such a 'death timer' setup. my initial reaction to the system was to think that it should have water timed by day your playing. Specifically, on a day you do a run, it starts the day timer on water use. This encourages doing more than one run in a day, while letting people take breaks without massive pressure on them. Example 1: It's Sunday and I've got some time, so I hop on Forever Winter and do a run. The moment I set out, 1 day worth of water is now ticking down over the next 24 hours. If I don't come back till Wednesday, then the timer would have halted 24 hours after I set out on my first run, with a day used up. Example 2: It's a Friday, so I decide I'm gonna enjoy me some scavving. I pop out on my first run, starting the water timer and three runs in I realize I should check my supply. Oh shi- I'm on the last day of water left, I've neglected to budget and now I've put myself at risk. So I need to do a couple of water runs that night, but a couple hours later I've got two weeks stocked up. I remind myself not to burn down my water below a couple days without grabbing more. Example 3: I'm feeling burnt out, so I decide to take a break for a while. I've got a couple days water left, so it's no big deal. 24 hours after my last run (win or lose) the timer stops. Month later when I get back to the game, I've got a couple of days of water, so I better get on that. But I've not lost a ton of progress. That said, the idea of 'you use water based on time in the field' is workable to me, numbers might need tweaking but it's not the 'this game is screwed' that the current water mechanic as described will be.

I’m thinking if they choose to do this, perhaps make it so that merchants and some other services become temporarily unavailable due to low water. That way no one loses any progress.

I hope if they chose to modify their ideas for the game, they add settings for it. I find it unfortunate when the overall experience is changed to serve a particular group. More settings is always better than blanket like it or not changes.

You could always make the water feature an optional feature. Make 2 game modes, Casual: no timed water depletion. Maybe water depleted by each in game day played. So water only drains when you're playing the game. And survival: the current plan where water always is dropping.

Wait and see, if it sucks im sure they will change, if its not bad then it will stay. The game isnt even out yet.

Off topic, but I'm 100% there with you on "Dad games" I got a little time at night and random throughout the week to play. Coop and solo games are so nice.

Its all a matter how its implemented. If they build a nice system arround it I am fine! Remember: This is early access, let the devs test things! Give them feedback! From what Ive seen the devs seem to be very open and encourage the community to give feedback.

The fact that the devs have married themselves to such a poorly conceived concept has stripped me of all the excitement I initially felt when I first seen this game.

Early on I had heard the water would only last a week which would have kept me away. I work out of town through the week and when I get home I spend as much time as I can with my family, but 30+ days isn’t that bad.

I legit thought I was the only one complaining about this issue, it's good to hear that the community spoke up!

I've heard them talk about the water and if you max the water out in the beta its a month, and it took a week to show any signs of degrading at least from what i hear from people. i dunno what that accumulates to in game, but they said that if you max out your water it's a month and there is ways to increase that, so if I don't play for two three months then I probably playing something different at that time anyway lol. It also lets you keep half your money if it does dry up and you can use your friends water or public players water and share in his water buffs and you can also get guns from high level players. So there is alot of ways to get your stuff back without starting from scratch. So from that kind of point it's not a bad mechanic. My biggest pet peve is that it's not a hardcore mechanic their gonna make the water easier to get which defeats the purpose of a scarce resource so you can keep your innards while offline. So idk I'm not really on board with it I think it's kinda dumb, and useless but we will see how it goes.

I hope we get junkyard power armor in the future lol. Nothing so grandiose like a mech, but a Fallout style armor made of scavenged tech. It'd be cool if end game is you becoming a "Junk Tech Priest" taking scrap and tech and augmenting yourself into a wasteland warrior, bad enough to group and and try to take down the mechs.

I think it should be a skill issue, not a timer issue. Being punished for failure is harsh (and mostly fair), being punished for not playing just feels bad (and unfair).

It's a WIP mechanic for a game that's not even halfway finished yet. Y'all need to chill the fuck out for a sec.

This is the first I heard of the offline portion of this mechanic. I thought the water was just an added consequence related to dying in missions.

From what I've heard regurgitated from others and maybe even the devs themselves (or im delusional) weeks ago, they were planning on adding modules suggested like in the video to slow down water decay and to infact have it increase as to not have it as much of an issue, although I heard this like weeks ago so I barely remember it. Other than that, I watched a few minutes of (early) early access from a youtuber and it seemed like in his clips water wasn't oh so very rare in the mission, though he'd only be able to carry 1 at a time due to how large they are and so he'd only have the rig slots for 1, and despite being big jugs they were only worth 1 water. The only problem with clips is that they are obviously not representative of the gameplay as a whole sooooo it's probably best for whoever is reading this to do their own research and look at the few, but existing, gameplay footage videos.

the new water cap is 80 days and 1 water = 1 Day of IRL time

A dev that want's you to feel anxiety about what happens in their PvE game while you are offline is a dev that deserves to fail. I shouldn't feel like I have an obligation to play a game because I don't want to loose my progress when I already have far too much stuff to do. There's already too much shit causing anxiety from day to day in most peoples lives, and putting any mechanic where you have any consequences while away from the game in a already hardcore PvE game is asinine. People play games like this to feel tension in encounters and a rush of adrenaline when things come down to the wire. Not to have the stuff they worked for lost when they decide to take a break from it.

I can't say I'm the biggest fan of it myself. Rather than tying it to real time it would be better if it were tied to play time. That way the game never becomes homework that I have to come back to in order to maintain my progress.

The devs said in one of the Q&A vids on their discord that the water mechanic is something they're re-evaluating. So they are aware it's not ideal as it is. I agree with the other comments that it should work similar to the fuel in Tarkov where you can shut it off before you log out and not lose anything, but people who leave it on may gain something.... that seems fair

99.9% this works with the system time. Before running the game, turn off the internet connection and change your PC/Console time a few hours after your last session. I am pretty sure this is how it works since without a connection the game can't phone back home to now what day and time it is. Remember that this will work only if you play offline....

I dont mind too much having to log back on and replenish water, but it does mean the game itself, for me, will have to be really captivating, fun, exciting, nicely polished, in order for me to want to keep coming back every day to play. Right now like many, time is such a valueble commodity plus there will always be other games this one will have to compete with for our attention. Right now my main concern is for the devs to make sure the AI is good and the character movements are fluid and gunplay feels good (if you end up engading in fire fights.

Tbh, I felt this same way with Destiny. I’ve played it since alpha, up til about 2 months ago. I have INSANELY terrible RNG. It took me 77 raids to get 1k voices. And that’s just 1 weapon. I felt like I couldn’t / didn’t have time to play anything else other than destiny. I missed so many good games and experiences playing destiny so much. This game seems like you won’t be able to play anything else. I was going to buy this game for me and my brothers so we could run together but now I’m not so sure and that sucks because I literally found out about this game days ago and been so hyped and talking about it / watching videos non stop. The more I learn, I’m not sure I’ll actually buy it now. 😔

Maybe they can have a function in your settlement that you can unlock, that gives you a robot/ droid, that scavages for you when you offline. It is not always successfull so you need to upgrade it or log in to repair it. And you can have a max of 2 robot scavs that you can unlock.

From what I remember from the reveal trailer, there should be a method to passively produce water. But I don't think the production of water will be in the positive rates, more like reducing the water usage rate.

I think it should be split into modes, where hard mode does the real-time depletion and change the drop rates between each, where you can get much better stuff on hard mode. Then maybe don't let them mix characters between modes. It'll probably evolve anyway, not like anything here is set in stone.

I remember Metal Gear: Survive had a similar mechanic. While Metal Gear:Survive had a lot going against it, I still enjoyed it because it was a survival game with a similar concept of survival in an apocalyptic setting. And I get it, war is hell and survival in a never ending war is hell. But this is a game, not war. I can unplug this, you can’t unplug reality. Games that penalize you for having to deal with life for a while are disheartening to play in a way that really makes me not want to play them. This game genuinely looks good, and a great way to disconnect from reality for a bit. But having a water death mechanic while you’re away will make the game feel like a chore, not a challenge. And I don’t want this game to feel like doing laundry.

Players tend to be good at eventually metagaming things, so I fear the water mechanic might become a nuisance thing as it just turns into something you have to regularely farm. Which then for people that play a lot would be trivial, while people that only rarely can play will need to water farm first when coming back instead of what they actually want to do. So a thing that always ticks down even when not playing would not really help either to create tension. For anxiety maybe it would be best to have it as a rogue lite mechanic with water becoming harder and harder to come by and requiring to venture into more and more difficult areas, till it fails. And you then restart but with more xp and such and hopefully this time get further.

9:30 Yeah I can absolutely understand that. If it really is short, where it's 30 minutes or even 5 hours is 1 day, that water is gonna be going way too fast. I'd suggest an irl day to be 1 day ingame. Just with an internal clock so that you don't have to be online. Then the problem is how that's regulated across other people's saves, hm... I'm sure there's a solution I'm not seeing.

I'll have to dance for water.

This feels like the same bullshit mechanic Arma 2 Epoch modded servers had back in 2012/2014 with the safes. You had to log in every 15 days, open every single safe you had, otherwise they would automatically unlock. Gone are the days where I would have the patience to log in, open 50 safes for 20-30 minutes, and log out. If this game has a mechanic anywhere similar to this, it's not getting my money.

So, a lot of these comments with ideas are absolutely fantastic. However, I couldn't help but think of an admittedly overly complex rework of water to turn it into a currency rather than a resource. Since everyone needs water to survive, and with the world the way it is in game, it doesn't make sense to have traditional currencies anymore. Things will have devolved to the point of trading resources for something of perceived equal value, and vice versa. This could take the form of a currency to unlock certain skills/passives for your chosen character, or just go full tilt and make it the currency for everything, like how Dark Souls has one single currency: Souls. This isn't something I necessarily think should be in the game, but was an idea from a little game called Caves of Qud, where water is the game's currency.

If this is about needing to drink and procure that water as a survival mechanic... I'm glad, I was hoping this game would have some sort of little "needs" you had to keep up with while looting around, kinda like STALKER (or Skyrim if you ever modded that game/played survival) Besides, TFW seems like the type of game you have to play slow and sometimes wait for the enemies to kill each other and move on for you to be able to slip by; having something to do in those 10 seconds like sipping some water, eating some food or even smoking a cig... Stuff like that.

We have a tamogochi extracter shooter now? Nice

Just because this game is a job for the devs, doesn't mean it should be a job for players also. This is doa if they make decisions like these. The game is niche as fuck anyway, they might wanna reconsider their position.

I already feel anxious about work when I'm not there. I don't need anxiety in my fun as well. MY IDEA - Water acts more as a currency. If you go on a run, you pay such-and-such amount of water based on your base level or something. You're still cognizant to get the water you need to keep your base level, and its not punishing you for not playing.

This resonated with me. I used to play a mobile mmo and got to rank 1 healer for a week. I'm pretty sure i slowly stopped playing thanks to the burnout and lack of sleep it took to get there and hold it.

A lot of players are also worried about the requirements and whether or not there is any upscaling.

Yeah, the water mechanic is a huge turn off for me. I work 60 plus hrs a week. If this is implemented then I'm not the targeted audience. Which is fine, I want this game to succeed.

Oh man, the game wants to pressure me to keep playing... continuously or else we lose all our progress? That'll be a deal breaker. "Anxiety and excitement" isn't what I really look for in a game and it already looked like it was gonna be stressful.

The thing is this. If the game doesn't appeal to you enough to either play it regularly or put in the effort to achieve the best outcome for your water, then the game probably isn't for you anyway. For example once you get to about level 40 in Tarkov, you really do want to keep your generator running 24/7, but to do that is costly, if you let your generator run out it slows your progression on a few skills and stops you from crafting until you refuel. Its really about how committed you want to be. For the record, Im 58, run a business and have a life. From what I have learned so far about the water mechanic, it hasnt seemed like an issue at all for me because I play EFT above L40, so its kind of... whatever...

Games are something you spend time on when you have your free time. You play it when you have time for it lol. If they introduce offline generation and depletion of resources, that will irritate the players more than excite them. Who remembers the time when they're so obsessed on their Clash of Clans? No one has the time for that kind of game if its not on mobile since most players are working members of society.

If you really want to change the water system into something workable and creating tension in-game - there are many ideas. First - no offline drain. The water only gets used up when you go on a mission. A baseline no water state should not take anything from you - just apply a reasonable debuff (e.g. -20% health and -10% carry weight) and have most merchants and other NPCs leave your base. This is basically your character barely surviving by themselves on the water from cobbled together water condensers and only having access to wandering traders who don't stay. Levels at one and above should remove the debuff and open new opportunities you can unlock - better merchants, crafters and mercenaries you invite, better buffs you can get, etc. However the more people are working on your base - the more water gets spent on upkeep when you go on a mission. Fail a run or two with a big crew - the water runs dry and people leave to survive on their own - temporarily. But you'll still have physical things or upgrades you may have unlocked that will give you an edge on getting the water level back up. Have water be heavy so that the player would have a real choice between getting a water tank or a shiny piece of loot. This will be much more friendly and respectful to the players, while also adding an interesting risk and reward system instead of just a plain dev blackmail mechanic that only punishes you for not playing often enough.

Simply don’t play is a valid option. But in this case, it does need some rework. State of Decay has a similar system, but it doesn’t have the offline drain, and yet I still wanted to come back to it. Good times.

This sounds like the shit DayZ or Rust players deal with on daily basis sometimes. I don’t know how I feel about this.

It's not a game for casuals, period. Dads have a lot more games to play.

Any game that needs a fomo mechanic to keep a player playing is a red flag. Will keep an eye on the game and see how it all plays out.

most likely they may change that water death thing. they might even just make it an option thing like an on and off switch for hardcore players. Remember 30 days is a month and 70 days is 3 months ish. I'm probably gunna still play the shit out of it hit max and play again after 3 months. I can see them doing that in order to have people come back after each update.

If you look at the game like how losing progress in a roguelike, then it becomes less punishing as it sounds. While a roguelike doesn't exactly punish you for not playing the game, the concept of losing progress and getting it back remains the same. And given that there are options to help you out like receiving gear from the donation stations or using someone else's Innards to be able to use the benefits of their base, it really doesn't look as punishing as people are making it seem. There are ways around helping you regain your progress. I like the system as it keeps everyone in an even playing field. The game will still retain its difficult nature, no matter if you're an experienced player or a newbie. I feel that people are making the system more unfair than it really is. The game doesn't require you to play every day like some other people think it is when you can get months worth of reserves. Regardless if it turns out good or not, I'm glad the devs are sticking to their vision.

This is what I have been thinking too. If it is 30 days and you don't play a game for a month, do you even care anymore? What's the big deal?

Players should not be made to feel like a game is a job they have to clock in. Real life job is enough. Hopefully they remove that offline drain and replace it with something more gameplay related. "Losing" a progress by not playing is strange. Rather lose progress from being bad at the game and not finding enough water than from real life calling.

im so looking forward to this game but i will not be buying this until after ive seen some reviews, as someone who has diagnosed anxiety i dont want to be worried about losing all of my progress because of real life obligations. im not saying that this game shouldn’t have “consequences” or be an anxious game, i love horror movies and hard games but all of those “consequences” should be for making mistakes while playing or playing the game wrong you shouldn’t be punished for not logging in for a few weeks. basically i agree with what you’ve said throughout this entire video. great video and great talking points, i like that you are not fear mongering but trying to start discussions

This may not be as bad if they had a vault type system so you can store gear mats ect so if your gonna stop playing for a few months you wont lose everything

Here is some constructive criticism. Tell me what you are saying. Don't tell me what you are not saying.

Man, I work 12 hour days along with having a young son and sometimes don’t feel like playing games for days at a time. I love the idea of FW, and I’m excited for it nonetheless, but this is going to be a big damper on just how much I play it unfortunately.

I'm a little concerned about the water mechanic, as it sounds exactly like the type of dark pattern player retention mechanic you see in some mobile games. I'm not specifically against a water system or even progression loss caused by one, but there's a lot of moving parts here. Does the game offer its best core gaming experience when you've just experienced a water death, or does experiencing it just make collecting the loot and scraps feel futile and kinda boring? Either way, the devs need to make sure that they're making a psychological situation where the player is primed to have the best time in their game, motivated to play the game itself. Just going into a game to put in the numbers in a goal-oriented fashion has been shown to cause burnout and a shift of motivation type, into a situation where you don't feel motivated to play the game itself anymore. Common MMO problem. Another common one is daily login reward systems that are too strict, sometimes going hundreds of days and then you miss one day and stop playing because it feels too overwhelming to recoup the lost progression. So I don't think offline death/wipe is inherently bad or impossible design as long as it's accommodated by the type of game it is and supported by the psychological/motivation design of the game as a whole. Considering how early the game is right now, I fully expect this kind of design to still be in a rough state.

I'll just repeat a suggestion here. Cut the offline mechanic where it continues to deplete. Instead, inscrease the amount it depletes when you are online. Say 10,000 units of water gets you 10 hours of irl game time to focus on collecting loot and other gear. it would also create actual tension with water. say your only at 1,000 units (1hour) of water remaining. you go out on a raid to collect more water...but shit there's a really rare gun you just found. but damn, there's a water barrel right next to it! do you collect the water? or the gun? the water will make sure your base has more time to stay alive. but that weapon is super powerful, amd maybe might just be able to help you collect even more water in the future! risks, choices.

So much potential in this game. It should be a challenge, entertainment. Not work.

The game is 27 bucks. I'm blue collar, hand to mouth. How is anyone with a real career, "tense". "Fears"? I could have to get in physical brawl with a coworker daily. Maybe it's time and place. I dunno, I had to buy shit off the shelf before reviews were available. Ps1 resident evil, and silent hill based on the fricken cover art. Get wild people! Take a leap , if you eat it, you didn't die.

I feel like it being a PVE game makes the water not needed. It makes it to where you HAVE to play. I want to be able to pick up and put down a game. Not have a new job. At the very least, it shouldn’t tick down when your not online/playing.

All these comments are insane. The internet has given people the illusion of having a voice.

Wow, I've never had my hype die faster, literally 100% full interest in the game to 0 in five seconds. I have a life, your game shouldn't be a second job.

I get where the devs are coming from but at the end of the day I just want to sit down after work and relax while playing. And yes hardcore games are also relaxing. But feeling the need to log in just stresses me and I don't need (more)stress in my life. The game setting, art and concept are all very appealing. The water mechanic on the other hand is a no buy unfortunately.

This is already a feature in _Fallout_ , I don't see why that's a problem.

WATER they thinking????