The Forgotten Failure Of The New Universe 

There was an element that you left out of your assessment of The New Universe's failure: the distributors H-A-T-E-D it! I attended a meeting of Marvel distributors just before the line was released. The editors of each title gave a presentation about their stories and characters. One of the prominent distributors, Chuck Rozanski, basically said "If the Marvel name wasn't posted on the cover of these books, they wouldn't stand a chance of selling!" Jim Shooter, to his credit, basically responded," These books WILL sell if I have to stand on a street corner and sell them myself!" Basically, Shooter probably wasn't impressed with the clout of the Direct Sales Market at that time, so he sold the titles to newsstands as well, proving his determination to succeed. Unfortunately, it could be argued that Shooter "shot himself in the foot" by doing that and prompted the distributors to under-order the titles and contributed to their failures. I don't know if his successors felt differently after he "left," but I don't recall seeing comics on newsstands as prominently as when Shooter was still at Marvel...

Great video on the New Universe! I think part of the root problem with the line was a fundamental misunderstanding of what made Marvel a success in the 60s. Marvel did succeed with that 10% edge to DC in regards to realism but that was only in regards to its characters. The heavy use of science to justify the powers and technology was because that was the style of the time. The 50s and 60s were a renaissance period for science fiction and that carried over in so many major pieces of entertainment. Marvel was just riding that wave with the added draw of relatable characters. With the New Universe however, they just hyper focused on the “realism” angle without any sense of direction or purpose. If this was a universe without aliens or super science or magic then what does it have? You’re setting yourself up as a place with “have-nots” instead of “haves.” It’s negative marketing. Aside from the myriad of other problems the books had, maybe they could’ve done better if they promoted what they had to offer as opposed to what they didn’t offer.

I was a big fan of the New Universe back in the day. I was a pretty casual reader at the time, but I was definitely familiar with the different vibes both Marvel and DC characters had. New Universe had a lot of interesting ideas and a more grounded tone that, by todays standards, feels more like pitches for some 'urban fantasy' tv series. But I don't see that as a detriment! As a D&D kid, I'd gotten into other superhero TTRPG's like Heroes Unlimited and Champions at the time New Universes was happening. So being able to see a superhero continuity happen in real time was very fascinating, and still influences my writing and world continuity design to this day. In later years, of course, I learned about how divisive both the series and Jim Shooter was, and how the New Universe was basically shredded by behind the scenes shenanigans. But I don't think it's a coincidence that I also got in on the ground floor with Valiant, Ultraverse and Comics Greatest World back in the day, again to see how to start a superhero universe from the ground up. Behind the scenes, Jim Shooter may have been resented for running tight ship in the looney bin that was Comics Publishing and Marvel Comics, but with the consistently strong work that appeared during his tenures in the business, I can't help but think he gets unjustly vilified for having a strong vision about this work and having the tenacity to follow through with it. All we can do is speculate. I wasn't there to see it happen behind the scenes. But while many may complain about the execution of his works, I still feel like I "get" what he was going for creatively and something about that brain space has always appealed to me. So thank for trying to make the New Universe work, Jim Shooter. Despite the industries attempt to bury it, I think it was more influential that anyone wants to admit.

I think we as comic fans can all agree we could use Jim Shooter right about now in modern Marvel comics.

Strikeforce was amazing early on. I didn't realize it was originally envisioned as part of the New Universe.

On paper, the New Universe is a cool idea. A shared superhero universe that moves in real-time & have grounded realistic stakes. It's a pity it didn't work out.

I'm met Jim Shooter at a con last year, really nice guy, and I asked him about being burned in effigy. He told me that the story was true, but it was not the reason he was fired by the higher-ups. I can't remember the reason he gave, but he explained the higher-ups did not care what the people beneath them thought of Shooter.

Starbrand is an interesting book, at least under Shooter, as it's basically a man laying himself bare for us to see, right there on the page. It's almost overwhelming when you understand the self inserted nature of the main character; almost too revealing. Very peculiar, and some elements of the book clearly carry over to Shooters work on Solar. It is interesting, if nothing else. DP7 is actually a fairly solid book, too. You could easily see it just being a normal Marvel title (just have the paranormals be mutants or something), and Gruenwald said as much; it would not have been difficult to sheer of it's New Universe trappings. I had heard the rumor before of Speedball possibly being created for the line, but not Morituri. I suppose that makes some sense, as Morituri is so far removed from anything else Marvel was doing and seems to hardly fit into any part of their publishing ethos.

Shooter being the best thing to happen to the company, and being a creative dictator, are not necessarily opposing or contradictory assessments. They just represent the viewpoint of owners/investors and of the creative teams, respectively.

Star Brand started out with an interesting concept: an ordinary everyday guy is suddenly gifted with the most powerful weapon in the Universe. He spends the first twelve issues of the series being wishy-washy, unsure of what to do and how to live his life; while events are happening all around him. But that wasn't what the readers wanted. Sales dropped to the point where Marvel decided to revamp the series, and the entire New Universe as a whole. That was when they brought in John Byrne to revamp the New Universe. He did what he always does in his comic books, namely massacre uncountable number of innocent people in an attempt to shake things up. This was known as THE PITT. 😁 Byrne's writing has had a streak of cruelty to it from the very beginning, though it seemed to get worse after he left Fantastic Four and revamped Superman. He had no problem with allowing people to be killed off in his stories in horrifying numbers, usually innocent bystanders. Even in his Superman stories, rarely did an issue of the series take place without the Byrne Body Count growing little by little. I'm long since convinced Byrne was playing some sort of a joke by having Star Brand become a "super hero," and end up being present at a comic book convention when his alien nemesis showed up and blew the entire place up. "Estimated casualties are over five thousand!" screamed the TV news...until two pages later in that issue, when the "second White Event" or "Black Event" occured and left a smoking crater where the city of Pittsburgh had been Hence the title THE PITT. It was at this point that I decided to stop reading John Byrne's stories in general. Update: Out of curiosity, I looked on Google for some commentary on the New Universe. CBR (Comic Book Review) had an article stating "11 Reasons Why The New Universe Failed." Halfway through this article was this little tidbit: "But Shooter's reputation didn't exactly help the [New Universe] project; he was hated by many people inside Marvel. After he was fired, Marvel artist and writer John Byrne held a party at his house where disgruntled employees literally burned Shooter in effigy, stuffing the dummy with unsold New Universe comic books. Byrne also used 'Star Brand' to destroy Shooter's beloved Pittsburgh."

Jim Shooter, what a legend.

I really liked a lot of the New Universe titles. In particular I loved DP7, Nightmask, and Spitfire and the Troubleshooters. I also liked Starbrand too. There were some really cool concepts in The New Universe.

I was also a huge fan of New Universe, especially Star Brand - it felt like I was on the ground floor of so,etching cool and new. And then the Pitt happened, and the rest was a ***ing mess. Though to be fair, in hind sight, it’s probably what would happen if supers suddenly showed up in real life: whole world would probably crash and burn in a year 😂

I always thought the problem with the New Universe is they couldn't figure out how superheroes would change the world around them. once you have superheroes, you really can't have "the world outside your window" and attempts to both keep the realism, and the super heroics were doomed to fail.

Little surprised that Psi-Force did not get much of a mention. Maybe because it was really strong from beginning to end in terms of writing and art. The characters made appearances in Ewing's Ultimates series.

I fail to see how the man who was responsible for putting Frank Miller on Daredevil and Walt Simonson on Thor pushed either of those creators to “compromise their talent”. Both were bold moves and gave us re-imagined versions of both characters from groundbreaking talents.

Night mask looks interesting Can you maybe do a follow up video on the individual titles

Too bad the new universe didn't last. I first discovered these comics at a candy store near my elementary school (after the New Universe had long been over)

This universe was like a proto valiant universe.

Just another reminder. Comic books forget NOTHING. All of these characters have, are and will come back the second any writer with a good idea gets half a chance. I know for instance that Starbrand and Nightmask came roaring back rather recently. Don't think of the New Universe as a failure. Think of it as a primordial soup that will always produce sparks of life. Marvel is mythology. And mythology always comes back around.

I'm glad you touched upon the Valiant Universe. I remember reading a letter in an issue of Comics Buyer's Guide where the writer compared and contrasted the characters of the VU to their predecessors in the NU. The similarities seem to make it appear that Shooter was really keen on the idea of a universe where the laws of physics more closely resembled those of our own reality.

Was Shooter an authoritative, no nonsense leader who was a hard ass? Yes. But Marvel was in a rough spot and sailing adrift because it had no real leadership. It had some major issues. Marvel needed that kind of leader to get it on track and help it live to its full potential. It didn't make him the most popular, but popularity doesn't lead to a good business.

Both of the Big Two have had multiple imprints fail because ultimately they end up leeching talent and sales from the main line. The only notable exceptions were Epic and Vertigo, which succeeded by targeting a mostly different audience from traditional comics readers and often a very different talent pool of creators, too.

It's frustrating that personal beefs with Jim Shooter seemed to color the creative talent's perception of the New Universe project as a whole. Because in the end, though Shooter would certainly have gotten the glory had the New Universe flourished, comics aren't made for executives - they're made for readers. And we, the readers, largely wanted this experiment to succeed. I was particularly invested in STAR BRAND. Despite a few hiccups (the Debbie Duck speech quirk got tiresome rather quickly), the early issues were quite good, and I legitimately believed a universe could be built around that title. NIGHTMASK and MERC also had potential. But hey, Jim Shooter's a jerk, so let's just half-ass the whole thing and (literally) burn it down the first chance we get, right? I'm a fan of John Byrne. I'm not a fan of what he did to STAR BRAND and the New Universe.

What caught my eye... that Ditko's creation of Speedball was initially for this project. And, as far as I can see, it isn't being touted as 'from the creator of Spider-Man' or that Speedball was / could have been the Spider-Man of this project. Which seems like a missed opportunity!

My only memory of these books is always seeing them in the quarter bin at my local LSC in the early 90’s, lol. Great channel btw!

I liked the New Universe at its start; now I know that it was under Shooter that it was to my liking and under Byrne that I disliked it. Interesting, since Byrne's DC post-Crisis work I disliked so much that after a decade and a half of always getting at least 1 Superman title per release (sometimes all the ones on the stand, including any slight cameos) I stopped buying or even reading about the character. Even more than the actual works themselves, I liked the potential the New Universe had. The same potential Valient got closer to in many ways, before also changing for the worse to my tastes. Shooter again did well and even closer with The Good Guys' and much of that universe before that also met an untily demish two issues into Schism. What a shame; the New Universe didn't get the proper backing it deserved; it might very well have been exactly the groundbreaking milestone that Shooter envisioned. And who knows, we might be over a decade into an MCU where Justice, DP7 and Starbrand are the household names?

It's still bizarre to me that Shooter thought to sell this and basically nothing else (with an exception of covers) as 25th anniversary. Imagine you have a birthday and somebody creates completely different human being as a gift and than doesn't even give it to you. Also, Kickers Inc. is something that should be in third wave of titles, not at the launch of new line. I tried to read these titles recently and while some titles were interesting (Archie Goodwin did good job on Psi Force), they felt like nobody wanted to write them.

Always a pleasure to be notified with new content from this amazing channel

I enjoyed DP7! Would make a good TV series.

I actually loved the New Universe, especially D.P.7, Nightmask, and Star Brand.

I loved DP7 back in the day

I think were three major problems with the New Universe: 1. Inferior talent, compared to DC's having John Byrne on Superman, Frank Miller on DARK KNIGHT and BATMAN: YEAR ONE. Alan Moore on WATCHMEN, etc. 2. Recycled characters. Many of the New Universe's character felt like dollar store takeoffs of established characters: Star Brand for Green Lantern and Justice for Judge Dreed, for example. 3. And overcrowded market. The year 1986 was the year of the black-and-white boom (which quickly turned into a bust) and Marvel was putting a crapton of new titles at the same time. Something had to give.

Still... I love what Marvel was recently doing with Starbrand and Nightmask in the AVENGERS in 2015ish. Atleast until they gave up... again. Now in 2022, the baby Starbrand has been reborn, and I love that the Avengers are now taking turns rasing rasing a super-UBER-powered baby-little girl. Especially the motherly role Carol Danvers is trying so hard to get a grasp of with Brandy, a toddler so powerful that Captian Marvel is next to nothing by comparison. But still, like a truly wonderful foster parent, you can't help troubled children by being afraid of them. Also, my wife and I both had Starbrand tattoos for our 21st wedding anniversary; she being my Star & I her Moon.

I remember seeing those comics and not being remotely interested purely because I had no idea what it was. Perhaps if they at least advertised it in the regular Marvel comics it could have been better..? That and more stable team working on them - with a decent budget of course. That being said it's ironical that it was John Byrne's work that drawn me to the comics. And I really really liked it then. Oh and about Jim Shooter: controversial as he was to me he was the best thing to ever have happened to Marvel as a whole. Not great for artists - writers included - but very very good for the stories and to us readers by extent. I usually say that he was to Marvel what Steve Jobs was to early days Apple: helped the company to be the best out there as well as making himself the most hated person in the business.

I'd say you have to judge the New Universe in the context of its times. I was heavily into comics back then. I've always thought of the mid 80s as the Alan Moore era. Swamp Thing and Miracleman were a breath of fresh air. Lots of Marvel stalwarts had moved over to DC over the first few years of the 80s and it livened some DC books up. The indie comics that existed then gave us more variety than we'd had in years. When the New Universe arrived, it was a flop. There was nothing fresh about it. In a comics world of many flavors, the New Universe gave us melted vanilla ice cream. So disappointing.

Glad you're back up and running! The New Universe was a thing I was only peripherally aware of via that iconic ad featuring the white event bolt. This is the most informative thing I've encountered about it in the almost 40 years (!) since, and I'm grateful to finally have that bit of industry lore laid out and hole in my knowledge filled. I hope you have a deep dive on the professional history of Jim Shooter on the docket. In recent years a fuller and less creator-based propagandized picture of the man has slowly been revealed, so it'd be cool to get as much of the whole story as possible from as thorough and even handed historian as yourself.

I totally loved this line, and every issue (and the later Quasar issues) are a permanent fixture in my collection

I was there when the NU was released and I bought at least the first issue of each title. I liked the idea of a more realistic comics universe, but the stories always felt half baked and missing something that made other comics interesting. I think it done ways it was TOO realistic. The heroes never felt that powerful and a lack of any really interesting villains pretty much doomed the project from the start. There were just sooo many unlikable characters it was hard to enjoy those books.

Honestly, it sucks that nothing big came from the New Universe because the idea is so cool, a super grounded universe with intriguing powers and characters. Now all Marvel does is publish the same stories with the same characters over and over and over again

DP7 and Starbrand were the best of line, in my opinion. The first 6 issues of Spitfire were solid, and PSI Force would have been good but the inconsistency of constantly changing creative teams hurt it. Changing creative teams seemed to be standard for the New Universe and I think that hurt it as much anything. Justice, for example, reads like an entirely different title altogether after Peter David takes over, essentially ignoring all of the first year of the book. I always felt like they put all their effort into the initial concepts, but then seemed noncommittal about executing them in any consistent way. I tend to be dismissive of complaints about Jim Shooter, especially from entitled creators who are always saying they aren't given enough creative freedom. Jim was a working class guy who'd been in the business since he was 13. He turned Marvel Comics around by running it like a respectable business; expecting books to be published on time, continuity to be respected, and storytelling to be clear and concise. He also went to bat for his creators, getting them increases in pay, more benefits, and he established the Epic Imprint so they could own their own creations. There were too many seminal runs published under his tenure, and sales were too high, for me to believe he was some sort of tyrant doing something wrong.

Star Brand is still one of my favorite characters. I also liked PSI Force, and Spitfire, and still have all of my New Universe comics.

The New Universe was obviously the forerunner to the original Valiant. I always wondered how that would've turned out if Shooter hadn't been ousted from Valiant. Shooter had some...interesting ideas in what turned out to be his closing months at Marvel. Replacing all the heroes with new people and such. As current day sales prove, that wouldn't have worked. Still, creating an all new universe from the ground up is a Herculean task at the best of times and when your budget is slashed overnight, it's darn near impossible! I wonder why they still tried to push ahead with this once that happened? Great video! Thanks for the info.

I read the New Universe comics until the bitter end. It was much better after they chopped the line in half and made the overarching storyline more concise.

Great video. Missed one detail - Al Ewing also revived Psi Force and Psi Hawk idea relatively recently in his Ultimates run.

I liked the New Universe, there was a lot of great stuff in it and some meh stuff. Overall its was pretty creative and was building something interesting until they got to the "Pitt" stuff where it lost its way.

Well, that's good timing. Here I was just three days after this video came out looking up what the Marvel New Universe was about. I remembered reading one of the the comics (Spitfire and the Troubleshootsers) as a back-up strip in the back of the UK print of Transformers but couldn't recall much about it.

I was a kid when the New Universe came out and was very hyped for it. It was cool getting in in the ground floor of a new line of comics. Me, my brother, and a bunch of our friends couldn’t wait to get them when they came out. I liked Starbrand and Nightmask. My brother like Spitfire and the trouble shooters and Kickers inc. A friend of mine was into Merc and Justice and Psy Force. I even have the Starbrand tattooed on my left shoulder. That’s how much fun the NU concept was to me. But, alas, it did fall apart fairly quickly for all of us. Probably with that first year. Mainly when the creative talent that started the books left the books as you mentioned. Still, I loved the concept and wished the Warren Ellis reboot had been able to be fully fleshed out and explored. Sure, Hickman brought in the concept into his Avengers run but it wasn’t the same to honest. Anyway, I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the NU. What’s funny is the failure of the NU is partly why I avoided the Ultimate line when it started. I figured it would fall apart after a year. Boy was I wrong.

I was a senior in HS and was slowly moving from Marvel to DC. I was also buying Eclipse and other indie comics, my comic dollar was stretched to the limit and nothing in the NU (except for the first few issues of Star-Brand) was interesting enough to make me want to drop current titles. When I saw the title Kickers Inc it made me believe the NU was not serious.

i still have all of my Jvstice books.

Whats funny is guys like Byrne who hated Shooter did the best work of his entire career under him. Some of the best runs in Marvel history came out under Shooter.

I loved DP7 up until the War started. I didn’t care as much after that.

DP-7 was awesome! Unfortunately, today the title sounds like the precursor to Backdoor babies 9. 🤣🤣🤣

Good stuff as always dude. Really informative 👍

Yes, I bought the New Universe being a loyal Marvel reader and MMMS member. I kept waiting for something interesting to happen and found the stories and art tedious. I never cared for Shooter's mandate that all the stories needed to be self-contained into a single issue; I felt this removed the nuances and characterization that made Marvel books so endearing and relatable. I recall one FF panel by Jack Kirby of Reed and Sue sitting at a table with a cup of coffee, discussing the upcoming battle with Dr. Doom. It was so relatable as watching my parents sit down and discuss making a house payment. What Shooters Universe lacked was an organic feel to it. The above FF scene was written and drawn by people that experienced such a moment with their spouses. PS. Am I the only one thinking Jim Shooter looks like Bizzaro Superman going for a job interview in the photograph?

Also: Marvel UK, Ultimate Marvel, Marvel 2099, Marvel Mangaverse, and Shadowline/Epic Comics. Marvel made a number of efforts to create new IP. Strikeforce Morituri also comes to mind.

I bought the first issue of each of these when they came out and none of them were interesting enough for me to read any further. As Frank Zappa would have said, "Strictly commercial."

I do wish for Marvel to have another go and allow a new universe in concept similar to Vertigo or a creator owned imprint. Kickass was the only success in recent years I remember from a similar attempt with Icon but that was pre-Disney. I feel that having a separate universe and imprint would allow more creatives to expand on their ideas, not because of continuity but with the freedom to do more. I'm somewhat tired of seeing variants of the same established concept like it was a cheap toy of Artic proof Batman or Underwater mission Spider-Man. Ultimate universe was a good attempt but it came at a time were the general absurdity baked into superhero comics was not favored, hence all the grim that came from Ultimatum.

Again everyone gets stuff so wrong. Eliot Brown did not edit the entire New Universe line, and he was not succeeded by Howard Mackie. Eliot was indeed let go by Shooter ( NO ONE WAS GOING TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH SHOOTER ON THESE TITLES) before the titles ever came out and this was the beginning of the titles completely falling apart. The titles he edited were given to Michael Higgins. These were Starbrand, Nightmask, Justice and Kickers Inc. DP7 was edited bt Ralf Macchio, Spitfire and the Troubleshooters was edited by Bob Harras, Merc was edited by Jim Owzley(Peter Christopher Priest), and Psi-Force was edited by Bob Budiansky. The editors involved were in no way to balme for any of the downfall as they were taking marching orders for all of the changes from Shooter. And the creators couldn't stand it an left, which is why so many titles had so many creators despite the editors trying to make the titles as good as possible. Owzley was fired next, and Larry Hama took over Merc. Miek Higgins was removed by issue 7-8 and THAT is when Howard MAckie was brought in. Shooter was fired from the company shortly after and that is when titles were cancelled and rethought.

I had a lot of these. Starboard, Merc, Justice. I remember liking it but not enough. About as good as Secret Wars. Basically DC won out with Crisis and Alan Moore's work.

I read a few of the New Universe titles, but "Psi Force" was the one I liked best and still revisit every few years. As for what did it in, I noticed one annoying thread throughout all of the titles I read -- from Psi Force, to Star Brand, to DP7 -- all of the characters HATED their powers and wanted to get rid of them! But the books are being marketed to an audience of readers whose ultimate dream is to have superpowers! It was tough to relate to characters who were constantly whining about the thing all of us comic fans DREAMED about :D

Crisis on Infinite Earths wasn't some great marketing plan. It was to fix the continuity problems created by different DC publications.

I mean Marvel could have used “Justice” to replace ROM, the Space Knight, to keep the Dire Wraiths and the Brood relevant.

Excellent work as always! You always seem to hit my personal sweet spot. Picked up Star Brand #14 last week in a quarter bin… one of the weirdest Byrne issues I’ve ever read…

Eternals is right up there with these and that got a movie.

I was a big fan of Justice. I recently completed my run of Psi-Force, which crossed over directly with Justice, and the "realism" felt like a detraction from that title.

I was 13 years old when New Universe launched and I remember standing in line to buy a copy of every #1. Since I hadn't experienced many new comic launches, I was convinced that these #1 issues were going to be worth a fortune in short order. I knew nothing of the creators, politics, or mandates going on behind the scenes, I only knew the advertisements I'd seen in other Marvel books. After the 2nd issues came out, I whittled it down to only 2 or 3 that I wanted to keep following, but didn't go beyond #7 with anything. These days, I barely remember any of the content or characters at all except for a scene here and there. I sometimes wonder if this might be worth revisiting.

I loved star brand in the early issues. It was unsure of itself but the concept had so much potential. I think the DP7 the Pitt and star brand would make great TV shows.

Good God almost 40 years ago it was a real attempt at new characters with new stories, I guess it didn’t work , I read Starbrand liked it they’ve actually resurrected the SB in modern comics , it was a good attempt, too bad that.

I completely forgot about this. I remember seeing the ads and not finding the look and design of the characters very appealing.

Marvel in the 80s: New Universe Marvel in the 90s: Marvel 2099 Marvel in the 00s: The Ultiverse

Not sure anyone forgot it, just that Millenials and Zoomers think nothing happened before they were born.

A bunch of the new universe characters were used in the 2015 secret wars tie-in mini series "squadron sinister" . Very fun comic, i highly recommend it

I read these when they were new. Loved Starbrand, Justice, and DP7. I actually just bought and am rereading DP7 in TPB. But definitely was Proto-Valiant.

The Universe that failed twice.

Looks like Shooter was trying the same thing with Valiant when he was forced off. I was collecting Transformers and GIJoe comics at the time and the New Universe titles didn't entice me with stupid names like Spitfire and The Troubleshooters and Kickers, Inc.

I think the biggest problem was misspelling the title Justice. The word is spelled with a U not a V, duh.

I bought all of the first issues of the new universe. I liked Star brand and dp7.

Interesting that Jim Shooter hated the way that DC editor Mort Weisinger treated him and other writers and artists. But, when in power, Shooter acted pretty much the way Weisinger had.

I've been waiting for years for someone to do a video about the failure of the New Universe. Any chance of doing a video about the failure of the Inhumans during their huge push in Marvel Comics

As a pre-teen(at the time)comics lover Marvel kid, I know I personally hated all the New Universe titles. Not a single one of them held my interest or inspired ideas of my own. I loved to draw the X-Men and Daredevil and had aspirations to be a comic penciler(which I actually did for a few years) so comics that captured my imagination were like gold to me. Ironically, I met both Jim Shooter and John Byrne on separate occasions as a youth. Jim was gracious and like a mentor the second he saw my work. Provided me with advice and cards of people to send work to once I upped my chops. Conversely, I met my hero John Byrne at a con in the 80s. I was about thirteen and waiting in line for his autograph or sketch. When my turn came up, he decided to ignore me and glad hand some guy who walked up to make some original art deal. I get it, but Byrne looked over at me as I was not getting the hint and told me to “F@ck Off.” This grown man told this kid who worshipped the ground he walked on to Eff off. Great. What an icon. I walked away pretty confused until a hand gently touched my shoulder and this bear of a guy asked me to come sit with him. He and I drew all day long as people came up to him for autographs and sketches. He was the sweetest guy to me and to everyone. He drew the most awesome drawing for me at the end of the day. He taught me so much that afternoon. About comic illustration and ego and how to be kind to people. His name? George Perez. I guess it’s true what they say…never meet your heroes. I guess the point is the New Universe and John Byrne both equally sucked…lol.

I've never heard anyone confirm this, and it may be a product of my own head, but I always figured the New Universe was the same place that the Beyonder created/became at the end of Secret Wars II. I mean, Secret Wars II was written by Jim Shooter, so it would make perfect sense and be a prime example of garbage producing garbage. Not that it would have been necessary to have one lead to the other (fiction doesn't need to "create a universe" to create a universe), but just using the word "new" in the name, and the chronological proximity of one to the other, I thought it was at least implied. In any case, it's hilarious that the second Secret Wars has never even gotten a trade.

I think I gave PSI Force or Star Brand a try, can't quite remember. Those covers looked absolutely dismal on the spinner racks!!

One of the things I appreciate about the New Universe is the small number of titles compared to the normal Marvel Universe. In order to follow something like Secret Wars you would have had to buy all these different comic titles. It didn't matter if you liked those characters or comics. Want to follow the story? Buy ALL the comics! ugh. But, with NU you could follow everything that was going on without having to buy 20 different titles, especially after everything got paired down to just four books. I think if the budget hadn't gotten blown up, and they'd been able to put some veteran talent on it, the project could have succeeded. Or, at least lasted somewhat longer. There were some solid characters and titles. Starbrand, DP7, and Justice were the best of the bunch imo. Some of the character's stories ended up going some interesting directions, but some of the others felt rushed and half assed, like nobody really knew what to do with them.

How could Kickers Inc fail? lol

I've not forgotten them because I'm reminded every time I look in the 50 cent bins....there they are!

I’d be down to read these.

After watching this video and the ultimate autopsy, it seems like every so often marvel creates a grounded and realistic superhero universe like the new universe, ultimate universe and supreme power universe.

Wow... I started reading comics regularly around the time when SM 2099 began to be published, I always wondered who the hell that Nick Prophet character was, he seemed so damn random and both important and unimportant at the same time....and now I finally have an answer, amazing! haha Very interesting story about the New Universe, great content

Another fantastic video!

Some interesting ideas and some really horrible designs. Unfortunately Shooter’s take on super powered beings trying to deal with the norms or life is almost always a death sentence in the superhero comic biz. He pacing and designs are better suited for tv budgets. I could actually seem some of these properties have new life on streaming. Look at how boring most of Disney #s Marvel streaming is……It’s perfect for the New Universe!!

Star Brand, drawn to resemble Luke Skywalker. DC , with their 1986 mini series Legends, made a Star Brand parody named Sun Spot, who met an embarrassing defeat from Green Lantern Guy Gardner! It was drawn by John Byrne!

Thanks for mentioning CrossGen too; that was a wild ride!

I actually bought the first set of issues, titles and still have them, even a couple of the one shots. Starbrand was pretty good but the rest were so so.

John Romita senior is a master. His son however, gives me hives. Hate his style.

You know, imagine what it'll be like, when Hasbro and Idw have made spin-off comic series of the main My Little Pony comic series? The Marauder Six, and the Cutie Mark Crusaders, would both be released in July 2013, after issue 8 of the main series. The Champion Four would be released in January 2015, after issue 26 of the main series, while after issue 19 of the Marauder Six and the Cutie Mark Crusaders spin-offs. The Anti-Mane Six would be released in January 2016, after issue 38 of the main series, while after issue 31 of the Marauder Six and the Cutie Mark Crusaders spin-offs, while after issue 13 of the Champion Four spinoff. The Six Pillars would be released in January 2018, after issue 62 of the main series, while after issue 55 of the Marauder Six and the Cutie Mark Crusaders spin-offs, while after issue 37 of the Champion Four spinoff, while after issue 25 of the Anti-Mane Six spinoff. And the Young Six would be released in January 2019, after issue 74 of the main series, while after issue 67 of the Marauder Six and the Cutie Mark Crusaders spin-offs, while after issue 49 of the Champion Four spinoff, while after issue 37 of the Anti-Mane Six spinoff, while after issue 13 of the Six Pillars spinoff. The Marauder Six and the Cutie Mark Crusaders spinoffs will both have 91 issues, running from July 2013 to July 2021(since the spinoff series would have 7 months hiatus after March 2020). The Champion Four will have 78 issues, running from January 2015 to December 2021. The Anti-Mane Six will have 65 issues, running from January 2016 to November 2021. The Six Pillars will have 39 issues, running from January 2018 to September 2021. And the Young Six will have 26 issues, running from January 2019 to August 2021. (If only Hasbro would allowed it, then things would've been different.)

This is really cool and interesting. Thanks for talking about it. I was wondering where star brand came from. 👍👍👍😁

I was a fan of the comic line. Although in hindsight I can understand why it wasn't popular. It was a series of stories that would probably have had a chance to evolve into something big but I don't think the writers really had a grand scheme in mind. You had the Psychologist who could enter people's dreams. You had the average Joe with Affinity Jem like powers rehashed as a "Star Brand", you had the football athlete with supper human indurance, you had the group of everyday people who suddenly woke up one day with oddball abilities that they struggled to control, you had the runaway teens who were cherry picked to have their powers merged into a being of extreme power, you had the federal agent who had a "shield" and "sword" he could call upon for close combat, you had the woman in a armor suit, and then you had the mercenary - a guy with no powers at all but whose line of work was interfering with his kid and ex-wife. In short, you had rebranding of several Marvel charcters. Spitfire was Ironman. Merc was Deadpool. Justice was The Punisher only with a set of powers. Kicker's Inc. was literally a rehash of every hero group on cartoons at the time. Starbrand was anybody from The Silver Surfer to Vision (pick a affinity gem of choice). Psi-Force was every rebellious teen group that came across Marvel's desk. As a teenager I didn't connect the dots. See the obvious. Later on in life I did. And to be far to this comic line, it probably should have never see print. The only reason it did was because Marvel and DC were flying high. Making money over fist on pretty much everything out the door. This was a time when a new Punisher, Spiderman, X-Men, or Wolverine comic book came out every week. And in some case more than one a week. They could do no wrong. Half of these books didn't even survive a year. The remainder lasted three I think. And yes, I can see the distributors playing a role in this. I didn't have a comic shop specifically in my area I could pull these books from. I had to hit Bookstores and even the local Grocery Store believe it or not. And even then I still struggled to get every issue. Back then if a comic didn't sale at least half a million copies it was considered a failure. And sadly, most of these books didn't even come close. I seem to recall at one point Psi-Force was selling around 200k copies but this still wasn't enough to save it. Especially since the book was part of this New Universe brand that was being phased out. The writers of these books claimed that they would somehow brings these characters into the Marvel Universe and they did in one book. DP7 and a Starbrand character made an appearance in one Marvel Book. The short of it was that a Marvel Character found his way into The New Universe and needed the power of the Starbrand to return home to the Marvel Universe. I think the moment I knew this franchise had reached its end was when they released "The War". In a nutshell, Uncle Sam had drafted people with abilities and they were sent in as front line troops in a particular confrontation. It has been a long time since that graphic novel came out so I don't remember the details, but I remembered thinking that there really wasn't any benefit to bring in these people with special abilities into the fight. The outcome would have been the same with standard US troops as without.

I read exactly one issue of New Universe: an issue of _Spitfire._ I skimmed the wiki page, and I note that the title changed mid-series, so I’m just going to use the part that remained the same. And I think, years later, it was some sort of transitional issue. Someone had murdered the tech team who had mechanically augmented specialties, and the young woman nicknamed Spitfire was imprisoned in a dark room being harassed by a huge lumbering monster of a man named Brick as a test by some disembodied voice. I thought the issue was at least interesting, and had a kind of adult feel-not like those dubious bookstores, but there was a feeling of reality, that I didn’t see in a lot of comics I had read up to that time. In all honesty, I don’t think I’d seen a New Universe comic on a spinner rack before or since (at least during those years, and honestly I’ve waaaay moved on)-I don’t think they were getting to the spinner racks at the local drug stores! Somehow this issue made it. I’ve used the term “Interesting Failure” for a work that has good hooks, but the execution didn’t work. Based on what I read in that issue long ago, I’d call it an Interesting Failure. Postscript: Ever consider a video covering the history of !-mpact comics? (Spelled this way because of spell check and auto-formatting-sorry!)

Keith Giffen’s work on these titles was astonishing, especially Justice. Giffen’s run on that title is worth seeking out. Otherwise, these books were just fair to middling Marvel content typical of the era.