Or companies might start attacking Framework because they will think that planned obsolescence will hasten the pace of innovation Or they will just say that repairability is just a communist idea
I'm still rocking my 1st gen Framework and it's the best laptop I've owned in over 20 years! People need to know how solid the performance is in tandem with the design. I will happily talk your ear off about how great this company / product is.
@@Hans-gb4mvyes and no, if anything dies on the laptop, you can much more easily repair yourself-saving you money to offset any upfront disparity in cost. Would have come in handy when my Dell XPS 13 died on me a few years ago
@@FlashGamer521 To my eyes the company is doing a lot better than many. In 30years i hope every single company is not run by a chairman driven infinite growth rate petty unrealistic economy
I understand that cheaper lower end electronics will prioritize cost over repairability, but expensive mac books, etc. have no excuse for their anti repair design practices, especially to the point when they patch holes when people find ways to repair parts that we're intended for repair.
Framework is the nightmare of traditional manufacturers. Not because it is a competitor to the point of harming the sales of others, but to DESTROY the various false arguments that have been given in recent years that it is impossible to make something repairable without compromising quality or size.
It's impossible to do economically which is everything for most companies beholden to shareholders in the stock market. Just read Engadget's review of the framework 16 lol
Tbf, laptop with similar performance is cheaper or has better built quality than this. And as a user I'd like to have not only better performance but also better screen, trackpad, keyboard etc when it's time for an upgrade so I'm not sure I'll be having framework anytime soon.
@@nabara6949Too bad that finding something that is an upgrade over your old laptop in all aspects quickly becomes an impossible endeavour. Sure, if your first laptop had an Intel Celeron single core, then you can probably get something better than it in everything simply by spending more. But once you have a good laptop, your future upgrade might still be a step down in screen quality, dimensions, weight, rigidity, keyboard, trackpad, cooling, RAM capacity (particularly when soldered), sound quality or loudness... I always have one single reason why a laptop of mine would need to be replaced. For my first laptop, the motherboard had issues and performance was somewhat lacking, but the actual body of it was very pleasant (keyboard, chassis rigidity, etc.). My second laptop had much better performance, but the cheap plastic started to crack all over, and I could no longer use some of its ports. Even the plastic in the hinge cracked. But if I could combine the two strong points of these laptops, I would use them with no issues even today.
lol at the coping answers. it's not a black and white matter, Framework overdoing modularity to the extreme doesn't justify the outright hostile designs of every other manufacturer on the opposite extreme, who just flat out lies and claims it's a design requirement for the magic stardust inside
@@nabara6949 My reply was seemingly deleted, but usually I would have kept most of what my old laptop had when I need to upgrade it. Furthermore, you will find it impossible to find a laptop that is better than your current one in all aspects. There will be some where it might become a downgrade, be it in display capability, rigidity, sound quality, compactness, weight, size, port selection, etc.
technically there not that hard to repair. its finding replacement parts which can be hard to find or impossible to get unless you salvage from donor laptops.
@@M1szS idk about that i see youtube videos of people repairing macbooks all the time. ie louisrossman who made a living off repairing macbooks that broke easily.
But that's not when it won't happen. Because the business model is based on components... They are sponsored by IT giants. You are more likely to take a cheap laptop to the service...
@@nomecognome2 It's truly a shame, that wanting to service your own things makes you a "tech savvy geek". So no, you're not a "'pro", if you don't even know how the thing you own work...
@@TheParkanyi I like devices that offer great performance, great durability, good design and great longevity which is why I bought a MacBook 7 years ago. The framework I think is an amazing idea which would only work out for some people
10/10 score absolutely earned. Brilliant teardown! I wish Framework will someday sell a phone which will also respect the environment and the consumer like this incredible laptop.
@@平和-v1z That really doesn't hold any water. My LG G6 from many years ago was IP68 with micro SD slot, and headphone jack. Not to mention the Galaxy Note 9. They could make the battery "waterproof" but a headphone jack was too much? C'mon.
This is fantastic. I'm also pleased to see that they are making the schematics available to repair shops, although it would be nice if they were made available to everybody - It's not clear on their site whether or not Framework would make them available to end-users who wished to repair their own equipment.
They likely have their hands tied, as the full schematics probably includes bits of IP from other brands (Intel, AMD, and so on). I've never tried obtaining a schematic directly from Framework, but I think they'll just make you sign an NDA before giving you access...
If you asked nicely for it perhaps they would but yeah as said above it probably has to do with 3rd party IPs, their board partners, manufacturers or even just plain not wanting to get their laptop replicad and sold on taobao
It is an IP issue, Louis Rossman talked about conversations he had regarding this. Apparently making schematics available at all was a challenge for them. It isn't so much major silicon manufacturers like AMD and Intel it's more ODMs who do a lot of the backbone design of things like the motherboard and integrated functions like WIFI, charging, IO etcetera. There are manufacturers like system 76 which are more open with schematics but they are more expensive and less polished. Using ODM based components was a compromise they chose for the sake of mass market viability. I wouldn't be suprised if schematics end up 'leaking' online though.
@@zeriah THIS and to add to it, Their marketing is working, Guess who the non-techies ask what laptop to get. Do right by enthusiasts and your goodwill to consumers will trickle down. I did a consult with a small to medium size startup last year and sold them on framework, their IT department was beyond excited for the ease in repairs. I wish Framework all the sucess in the world.
@qui11 You're literally banking on them making two laptops at that price and that both are good. Not a guarantee, given just how s**tty 2024 laptops look to be.
@@cameronbosch1213 plenty of great laptops on sale over the course of the year and especially during black friday ranging from $500 to $1000. 2-3x less than Framework 16. Idk, I never had a bad gaming laptop until it became obsolete in 5-7 years. Economically, it's still better to buy 1 good laptop then buy another one after 5-7 years. Environmentally, obviously Framework is seeking to reduce e-waste
8 месяцев назад
Looks like I’ve just found my new notebook! Nice :)
I am a proud owner of their 13-in and if the 16-in makes good on its smaller brothers design philosophy, a lot of users will be very happy with this laptop. The weakest part of the 13 inch for me is the keyboard and from initial reviews it doesn't look like it's any better here. But in frameworks defense it's hard to make a much better keyboard and still have it removable so I'll take the slightly less than perfect experience over not being able to repair it when something breaks. For the inevitable comments, yes you do pay a premium for a framework device, but it's not a brand tax. You're paying more because of how the device is designed. It is more expensive to build modular but in the long run it's probably going to save me money compared to buying yet another XPS like I have been doing for the last 10 years. I don't anticipate changing the chassis on my 13-in in a couple of years when I upgrade the main board. I also don't foresee me having to change some other parts of it either. It's not for everyone and the modularity does come with some sacrifices but part of frameworks mission is the same mission statement that Tesla had starting out before Elon purchased it, which is to push the rest of the market into the future and I'm willing to support that.
I own a FW16 and it’s truly amazing, that those 5 minutes show every step you need to disassemble every single part. I tried it. This is completely mindblowing and I love this laptop so much.
2:32 "(...) throwback to a more civilized age (...)" Such great wording on this. Specially with the soldered components period we are currently living.
Yep. My first ever Dell laptop from the late 90s (or possibly 2000-2001?) had quite a few similarities to this. It had two swappable module spaces at the front for things like a floppy drive, CD drive, card reader, and battery. I could easily change out the memory and hard disk, and of course it had a PCMCIA slot as well for all my networking needs. Everything was so easy back then. I really want one of these Framework laptops, they look amazing!!
Framework is the first modern consumer-grade smart device manufacturer that can score more than 1/10 in *USER* repairability rating. When I get the money, I am 100% buying Framework, unless others manufacturers catch up (doubt about it).
No, Dell and HP already have extremely modular laptops, they just cost 2500 euros for the starter model, they are professional work machines with replaceable GPU's, memory, harddrive, wifi card, storage and so on and so forth and they support up to 4 x storage devices. And then there is Clevo which even has replaceable CPU's
What I find the most great about the Framework laptop is how it's good for both basic and advanced users. It's like a dream for every amateur electronics fan that may get roped into troubleshooting for both themselves and those that rope them into it
It's fun to see the argument between those who like framework design and those who don't. I on the other hand is all for it. Who still remember the time when almost everything inside a laptop is accessible through the various hatches at the back of the laptop? During the time when the battery can be removed with just a single button press, when the ram sticks was accessible with just removing a single screw to remove a plastic cover. The time when disassembling a laptop was easier than frying an egg. Framework is simply bringing that back and more. It's not all about the value of framework laptops bring into the table, it's about proving a point. That easily repairable devices are still a viable thing.
My old Gateway laptop was east to disassemble. I still remember the model number, MD2614U. I currently have a framework system in the coolermaster case. If I ever need another one I will definitely purchase from framework. These designs give the users full and total control, the way it should be. These are perfect with an Arch Linux install.
Love it. This is not just great for repairability but also for upgradeability. I can't wait for Thunderbolt 5/USB4 v2 support to improve on the modularity of the ports.
If Framework releases a ortholinear keyboard insert, I'll buy one immediately. I rarely use my laptop because I hate staggered keys. A ortholinear board would give the Framework something I can't get anywhere else in a laptop, making it an instant buy.
More and learn about this laptop the more I want it. Those modular ports are great, and the ability to change the layout the keyboard amazing. Only if it didn't cost so much or I didn't have a capable desktop, I would go out and get one right now.
I mean, removable RAM shouldn't bring tears to ones eyes, but with how all the manufacturers treat RAM these days it's unfortunately now a rarity. What brings tears to my eyes is the fully swappable and upgradable motherboard and GPU! Legit, other brands had better be taking notice! This is what we've been wanting since the inception of laptops. Really happy they earned a 10/10! Fully deservered.
OMG iFixit without you this company or wonderful device would not exist to this day. I am so surprised by the modularity and I feel if power efficient RISC architectures come into these devices with proper software support the laptop era will be relaunched :)
I fricking LOVE framework. I bought my 13 last year and its holding up so well, its really hard to buy them second hand because everyone who has one loves it. Super awesome device
I can't help buy wonder where we would be today if this kind of modularity and repairability had been retained decades ago when Apple dabled in it 20 years ago with thier pizmo laptops. It probably wouldn't be the monster this laptop is, regardless if I was a windows guy this would be at the top of my list. I can see with a bit more refinement framework becoming huge as people get sick of being screwed by disposable junk.
its wild to see this kind of laptops, my 10 year old MSI GT72 (aside from the usual 2 dimslots on the other side, and the mid frame, was pretty much super upgradable, having the GPU/RAM/SSDs/HDDs and fans/cooling etc accesible just by removing the bottom cover
Been usinf the FW 13 AMD version for 2 months now and loving it. My old HP laptop was 11 years old so it was time for an upgrade. I was looking for a laptop between 13 and 14 inches and was bouncing between options from hp, lenovo, and even apple because i didnt know the existence of framework. I almost pulled the trigger on a macbook air 13 because it was on sale for the black friday but it was 8gb of ram and 256 of storage and both of them soldered to the motherboard... that should be banned rigth now. Searching online i found this company and i love their philosophy, the user can upgrade everything and the company gives you the manuals and acces to the parts It is true that fot the price that you pay you don´t get the same specs as other companies, that is true for example in the screen of the FW 13 but the design is really good and you know that in the future you can upgrade your computer without any issue. We really should support this companies that are making thing different and really caring about the users and the eviroment and not only using empty words like apple does.
Upgradebility and easy repair is everything for me. I bought cheap laptop in 2018. witch i am using even today. In meantime i upgraded ssd from 128gb to 1tb, put 4gb of ram more, replaced keyboard, cleaned laptop internals few times , put new hdd of 4tb, used 3 different oses, both windows and linux. and laptop will serve me for couple of years more. And that is real value for money.
I love what framework is trying to do. When my laptop eventually becomes slow and unusable daily. I will definitely go for a framework 16 as I would like to have a dedicated GPU. It's the only reason why I didn't go for a framework laptop yet.
After replacing a graphics module on an elitebook 8760w I must say that this is way easier to replace than the elitebook's which is 13 years old now. This is truly a step in the right direction.
You're right, but unfortunately the framework laptops take it to such extreme the hardware will be absolete sooner than it would require any repair. Building reparable devices is a choice for a company, but unfortunately we don't have much choice if we want light laptops with long battery life powered by arm..
@@Eliasu1150 I don't mean repairable laptops are going to become obsolete any faster than the ones from less consumer friendly competitors. I mean that while it's nice being able to replace wear parts (batteries, SSDs, some I\O ports), there's not much demand to replace CPUs and GPUs on laptops. Don't get me wrong, I really support repairing your own devices and I've done it a lot myself because I actually believe that creating repairable product means creating more sustainable product. But the problem is that, at the moment, framework laptops doesn't really stand any competition with macintosh computers at the moment, if you need a compact and lightweight arm-based computer with long battery life. But I will hope it will improve once we have more arm based solutions for laptops and not just chromebooks and apple silicon.
Even with its faults, I have to admit this is the best laptop that has ever released in my lifetime when it comes to repair-ability and getting open source replacement parts.
The Framework laptop is the "Apple" of Modularity, Upgradability, Repairability, and as a consequence, Longevity. Americans who constantly teach about "Going Green" must support this company and help it go Global in terms of sales and service.
It's great to keep things in use for as long as possible, and Framework has shown this to be a priority in their design. So with that being said, the best laptop for me right now is the one I already have (and probably is the case with most users). I've got a nice 4 year old speced out Dell XPS, but once it dies (or no longer meets my needs), you can bet I'll be considering one of these! Also I really hope Framework comes out with a drop-in OLED option. A lot of high end laptops are coming with OLED screens; I'd happily pay a premium for that.
Doesn't OLED have burn-in issues though? Kind of defeats the purpose of avoiding e-waste. Maybe Mini-LED for now until MicroLED becomes a thing in like 10 years.
I've had my Dell XPS OLED since 2020. I recently checked it for burn-in and was actually quite impressed! No issues! But I looked very, very hard (I have great closeup vision btw), I could maybe *barely* make out the start button (on a solid grey screen), but even that could have been my eyes playing tricks on me. And even if I did get mild burn-in, it's not like it renders it unusable. Point being, My laptop will likely become outdated long before burn-in becomes an issue. @@cameronbosch1213
This gives me joy to see 😀 It’s a bit like the days of the Dell c series where many parts were interchangeable and modular to some extent - I remember doing CPU swaps and changing from CD to DVD drives or even having 2 batteries. Framework should be the benchmark for others in terms of what can be achieved when cynical corporate agendas are not a factor - much like Fairphone’s design philosophy of easy to replace parts. If Framework can support the formats across models and modules for over 5 years then it’s a win 🏆
Linus did that for personal use and invested He proceed to drop a review for the production laptop 13 and killed their website I am serious about half the comments on that video are just people talking about the fact the website died
TIL expansion cards on a framework use USB-C. That's amazing, especially for the storage expansion cards. One can pop it out and use it on a different system for data transfer.
When my Dell XPS kicks the bucket my next laptop will be a Framework. I hope ARM laptops come sooner rather than later, I'd love an Arm Framework but that might be asking a little too much.
I sincerely show my gratitude to the Framework to show what the TRUE repairability and flexibility are. I hate soldered RAM, WiFi, SSD because for the slim design in nowadays. Esp. Apple, who is the money hungry to want you to buy a new laptop if one of the parts is broken.
Framework deserves a place that goes beyond 10/10, I'd say an extra bar at the end of the repairability meter indicating Framework's extraordinary contribution to repairability and actual sustainability.
I really wish manufacturers of components would swam in for this. For example: Keyboard: Razor, Logitech, Daskeyboard Cooling: Noctua for cooling components (we already have cooler master) Speakers: Bose, Sony, Denon, B&W, B&O, Yamah etc. Screens: Samsung, LG, Sony Batteries: Panasonic, Energizer, Duracell etc. P.S when you don’t have that number pad, instead of those flashy lights…they should offer speakers!
The only issue being that they're not sold in places where e-waste proliferation is at its highest, which is pretty much everywhere in the global south
So excited to get mine. Really looking forward to it, it's so cool seeing coverage of it already. Might upgrade the WiFi card when I get mine, though I'll have to see how it's WiFi performance is on it's own too.
I definitely want this as my next laptop. It's literally the best out there, because you're not really losing anything if you go for it. It has fast CPU and GPU, fine battery life, and if something ever breaks you can easily swap it out, there's no reason to not go for this laptop.
