Completely agree with Joey. Mindless offense is way easier to execute than ‘mindless defense’. It’s always been easier to attack than to defend, in any game, any sports. Once the offense gets rolling, it feels like im defending against a tank. The reward for the first knock down is too much imo
I seriously feel like if I make my offense a bit more annoying and scrubby I can get the last promo between purple and blue. It hasn’t all gotta be about tidiness. I’m basically doing this in fundamentals. I’m not even sure I suit Devil Jin. I play him like he’s Kazuya. I still been near the promo. If I grab more so I don’t have to hellsweep so often. I can get it. Risk reduction matters so much.. Why should I have to go launch punishable all the time?
@@sarvanuchoudhury155Exactly. Mindless defense isn't a thing. Execution, measuring distance, reading opponent's pattern, anticipating the moves, punish. It takes so much damn work lmao
I think playing high level offense against a high level defensive player and not dying and actually winning is also extremely hard. I’m not going to miss the ToD low parry/magic 4, the plethora of ch launchers. I do believe balancing will fix 85% of the main issues.
@@thorcolossus _"I think playing high level offense against a high level defensive player and not dying and actually winning is also extremely hard"_ It's not. Not in Tekken 8. In Tekken 6 it was. Why? Because you didn't get +7(Drag) or +5(Bryan) from a hatchet. You got +2(Bryan).
@@KulaGGin I do believe better balancing will fix 85% of these issues. I will critique the game, but I won’t turn into a hater because it’s popular gang up on a fighting game that’s two months old. Now I know this patch was kinda ass. I’m not blind. Hopefully, they’ll walk back some of these new changes. They have before in the past.
@@thorcolossus _"but I won’t turn into a hater because it’s popular gang up on a fighting game that’s two months old"_ What? The $80 product is ass. It doesn't matter if it's 2 months old. You need to have your standards checked. When you pay money for a product, you should expect quality. Just because it's 2 months old is no excuse. They are actually 35 years in development: the first game was *released* in 1994 and was in development years before it. If you didn't notice, game quality is ass nowadays all over the place and gamers are eating it and asking for more. Even if we ignore the meme balancing, let's see the technical part of the game: game works slower if your FPS is lower than 60, game starts to freeze if opponent's FPS is lower than 60, game skips inputs, DX12 fatal errors, game doesn't allow to unlock FPS by default like any other adequate product and we need to use a mod to do it. And that's from the top of my head.
@@thorcolossus _"Now I know this patch was kinda ass. I’m not blind. Hopefully, they’ll walk back some of these new changes. They have before in the past."_ It's the game that's ass, not the patch. They just broke one of two things in a patch, a hotfix will fix it. I completely agree with everything Arslan and Kkokkoma said: this is a meme of a game, like a casino. Not real Tekken. _"I do believe better balancing will fix 85% of these issues"_ You believe? You know something we don't? Or do you just believe like in a god with no evidence? Have you played Tekken 7? In fact, we have all the evidence to conclude that the balance issues will never get fixed like they never were in Tekken 7. Yeah sure they nerfed a move here and there but the general meta in the game didn't change. Maybe they'll nerf Drag's hatchet from +7 to +5 but it won't really change anything. We'll still have +17 heat engagers into broken shit like guaranteed taunt on Bryan and shit like that. Can everything be fixed with better balancing? Sure. It's very easy to do, too.
he clarified and pointed out the problem in an understandable way but didnt talk about possible routes for solutions like if increasing healthpools or other tangible stat changes. This is what devs do and the benefit is extremely hard to foresee
@@GhostHyperhexyeah it feels like that sometimes in tekken(7 mostly) unless you get specific match ups. Whereas other series defense had a cost across the roster. sf3rd and 4th you were always taking a risk with a low(ish) stun meter, chip, etc. and then parry or focus leaving you vulnerable if not intentional. Guilty gear uses your meter to use stronger defense techniques, and has negative penalty. SNK has just defend and a flurry of weird mechanics in older titles. Etc. Damage and chip is definitely too high in 8 but reducing the want to just stand there and block everything cause there's no cost is understandable.
I feel that he means that if you get the life lead in 7 and play safe (jabs, df 1, magic 4,). If not just stand there back dash and read a move go for a counter hit launcher that not launch punishable or low parry that gives a full combo. The game is "lame" to some people. Personally, I liked 7 other than 2d characters and a low parry that gives a full combo. There are other things, but those are the things on the top of my list.
To be honest its more that 8 doesn't have neutral. The opponent and you have the same goal. Run up to your opponent to mixup, mash, and 50/50 them to death. Without fast ch launchers or decent pushback on block this game will stay a boring mashfest.
There definitely was some merit to his point. Magic 4s and low parry giving full combos was stupid. Some characters were like Kuni were also overturned. She could play safe with 2,2 and mixup with set dashes. But T7 only need some adjustments not agressive gameplay push this drastically.
He always says stuff like that while trying to sound like he knows more than you Then says stuff like "This games actually harder" when everyone knows this game has been dumbed down to synthetic interaction The skill gap continues to lower, but in this game its free falling lol Of course the game feels harder when every interaction is a get out of jail card or put them in jail lmao
@@ITRiBUTEI The difference btween high level tekken and low level tekken is MILES AND MILES apart.... anyone who isn't at the highest rank of tekken don't really play in a way that the points these guys are making would apply to. Well... the points these guys are making doesn't apply to people at lower or middle ranks... The fighting style of the high ranks is to space, throw out leg kick and a few mids... get the life lead then mindlessly backdash and threaten something without ever doing anything just to run the clock to zero with a life lead. poor top level pro's actually forced to fight and make reads until a life bar gets to zero..... poor top level pro's actually have to FIGHT in a fighting game..... Speed kicks is fuckin spot on.
Agree with AA and JF ! There is no braindead defense, you have to work hard While in offense just spam strong moves given by your character Also speedkick plays Hwoarang so yeah I would’ve bet he loves offense
Speedkick is wrong. Defense in T7 is by nature not braindead as you need alot of game-knowledge to even know the strings and where to duck and sidestep, and also the skill of having the reaction-time to do that. T8 is has alot of hail-mary moves and desperate one-button mechanics, powercrush etc which can lead to victory. Now *that's* truly braindead.
@@superbadisfunmy tekken is a 3D fighter game. The heat system combined with the other mechanics introduced in this game effectively made this more a 2D game forcing more situations where you have to take a mixup. Its not that we cannt adapt but the heat system in its current iteration is not good, there are other nagging issues with the game that need to be looked at like combos in general and throws being homing as well as safe powercrushing heat engagers.
@@heretickishyt well if you put it that way, right now its basically a vtrigger mechanic without the need to build meter for it. Imagine you didnt need to build meter in sf5 and just have vtrigger from the getgo, be pretty silly and yet this is acceptable in tekken why?
Speed kicks is making himself sound like a Muppet here in my opinion, im not sure if he really believes what hes saying or hes trying to be divisive ..i think joey fury hit the nail on the head, he explained speedkicks opinion so well.
The problem is everyone can play offensive but not everyone can play defensive for playing defensive you need high knowledge what to do when to do and how to do you basically have plan to play
I know it's a typo/autocorrect but "git bud" made me laugh. The world would be a better place if that was the energy the "just adapt bro, eat the shit and quit complaining" guys were on 😅 My highest rank character is kuma and I got there literally just from robbing people with bullshit, any attempts to do otherwise result in me being the one getting robbed. Tried playing some yoshimitsu (a secondary) to clown around the other day, ran into 3 different interchangeable victor spammers in a row who were all oblivious to the concept of interaction. I just quit playing. The next day the battlepass was revealed and I uninstalled "tekken revolution 2" and went back to 7 😂 Praying for 5dr emulation with good netcode one day
@@danknstein6504 Ngl… I’m at purple and I feel like there’s still room for me to be much more scrubby if I wanna get blue… I’m only one promo away from blue. I can get definitely get it just by attacking better
Speedkicks my hero! I also didn't like the "dash dash low kick magic 4 get life lead then back dash until the timer runs out" play style either.... Not tekken actually makes you FIGHT in a fighting game and everyone is complaining....
I think chip should go and keep the recoverable gauge for if you get launched. You should not be punished for playing defense especially with how crazy the frames are in this game with over half the cast. They already nerfed CH launchers and low parry so I don’t understand why defense needs additional nerfs they at minimum need to tone down the frames on at least a couple moves on the top 10-15 because right now rounds snowball way too much once you get launched by a good character it’s very difficult to get back to your feet in neutral. or they need to tone down the chip or remove it completely and homing throws have to go immediately
I agree with both sides. Tekken 7 feels really nice to play and I still prefer it, but Tekken 8 feels like playing T7 with cheat codes. Both are fun, but when I play long offline sets every weekend with my brother, T8 is a lot less fun. I have a few hundred wins under my belt in T8 online and my win rate is about 80% across all my characters. Funnily enough, it's defense that has made the difference in most of my sets. However, once you're at the ranks where your opponents know their plus frames, I think "mindless offense" is a pretty good name for it. In most cases, good defense will kill opponents who don't actually know frames and still choose "mindless offense." Personally, I think they need to tone down heat burst and make some adjustments to chip damage/recoverable health. Also, some characters are just superior, whether its damage like Dragunov or move selection like Feng. It won't happen, but it'd be really cool if they took out heat smash and rage arts and just put rage drives in the game. I'm still optimistic. We'll see how they begin balancing and tweaking the game.
_"but Tekken 8 feels like playing T7 with cheat codes"_ Tekken 7 is Tekken 6 with cheat codes: much bigger frames, much bigger tracking on all moves. T7 2017'ers and T8 2024'ers never played real Tekken. All those people played is Kekken 7 and Kekkuga 8 with broken OP shit all over the place. If you wanna see what is a real Tekken, try Tekken 6. Here's a few comparisons between Tekken 6 and Tekken 7/8: T6 Drag's wr2 is +4 on block. You can't frame trap with d/f+2 after wr2 on block to get a launcher. Now in T8 it's +6 on block and you can frame trap with d/f+2 and launch the opponent if they press jabs. In T6 Bryan's qcb3 is +2 on hit and has much worse tracking than it has now. In T6 you can't frame trap with b,f+2 after qcb3 on hit. Now in T7/8 Bryan's qcb3 is +5 on hit and has much better tracking. Not in T8 you can frame trap with b,f+2 after qcb3 on hit and launch the opponent if they press jabs. And it's safe on block, of fuскing course. That's what changed from T6 to T7/8: they added advantages on lows, so scrubs can frame trap with launchers, and same on mids on block, so scrubs can frame trap with launchers on block from mids.
@KulaGGin Really, dude? I've been playing Tekken since T3. Of course, the games feel different across 2 major releases. Why reach back to T6 instead of TT2? I'm just saying that every character (aside from Zafina) feels like T7 on steroids. I made that distinction because we went straight from T7 into T8. By the time T7 globally, no one had been playing T6 for over 5 years. Don't act like Lars and Bob weren't busted in T6. T5 was even more extreme. Why bring up T6 as an example of "real Tekken" when it's the game that introduced rage? Shouldn't T5 be the only one considered? Or wait, maybe we should be going back to T3? My brother and I have been drinking and playing Tekken every Friday since 2008. The most fun I had was in TTT2, and the most fun he had was in T7. T6 was pretty forgettable, and the friends in the Navy I played with that competed in tournaments stopped playing because T6 sucked in their eyes. They still kicked my ass and made me dive into the game, but I also learned T5 competitive stats from them. I bring all this up because out of all the games I know the most about between T5-T8, Tekken 7 ended up as the better game if you didn't play with DLC or 2D in our opinion. TTT2 was the most fun imo, just ahead of T5. T6 had the best customization. T8 is still too early to call, but the heat system feels overtuned, and almost every character is better than they were in T7 as it is now. Quit trying to win arguments as some old toxic Tekken player by labeling people you disagree with as "2017'ers." What, should I call Speedkicks a "2011'er" or Arslan a...whatever year T6 released? That's just a classic case of gatekeeping and trying to pretend like the opinion of a game that people stopped playing 13 years ago should still matter. If Tekken catered to the fans of T6, T7 would have been the last Tekken. It took them 2 years to get something that worked out of the arcades to consoles, and it was rewarded in the end as the best-selling Tekken game of all time. More weight should be put on T7 when considering what T8 should be like, so the only reasonable thing to do is argue the difference between TTT2, T7, and T8, since that encompasses the last decade.
@ajhandsome01 I can dream. But no, I don't trust them lol. Knowing them, they'd just add rage drives on top of everything. I'll just pretend I live in a world where rage arts never existed and it was only rage drives
Been playing tekken since tekken 1. No one is playing original tekken anymore after tekken 3. The game is faster, there is tons of offense. I remember when people were mad when rage art's were added. Pros are mad that they are dropping more wins to other pros that they could constantly beat instead of just adapting to the new Metta. Your playing a different generation of tekken my boys.
I agree. I have played since 2. And I felt it was time to change things up. I welcomed this change. I just gotta learn to utilize it more. Time to adapt to the game if you cant? Oh well
I'm still mad about rage arts though. I think most people who play the game a lot don't like them being the way they are. I like all the new mechanics, they feel like tekken. Rage arts still don't. They should have the properties of a normal power crush or just no armor and have a little better scaling as combo enders
@@tongpoo8985 I remember when Tekken was considered the button mashing 3d fighting game. If you had "real skills" you played virtual fighter🙄. The one thing that pros are scared to admit is, casuals aren't noob scrubs anymore. The mental stack it takes to get good nowadays is crazy high level. Compare Street fighter 2 turbo with sf6.. can anyone honestly say that turbo is a harder game to learn than sf6.
Well, Tekken 8 might not be fun for everyone, but everyone who plays it surely had quite some fights you can say was like a movie scripted fight scene and I think the fast fluid animations in this game are exactly for that purpose, I think there should be a competiton not in which who is the best fighter and KO his opponent as quickly as possible but who creates the best fluid fight scenes for a clip presentation. a so called fair show fight with fluid fighting. People just don´t have time no more these days and every fucking round has 60 seconds to use creating a fun ass fighting scene, thats the fun about the game. In Tekken 7 the animations were slower and everytime the animation stopped you had a short break inbetween before the new button combination. And the Heat option was given in Tekken 7 aswell just not that extremely animated.
90% of this game is GONE. That is what these scrubs don't realize. I was an Intermediate in Tekken 7, a scrub in Tekken 5, but Tekken 8 is empty. ASH IS RIGHT. Scrubs and kiddies don't know any different. New players have Dunning-Kreugger Effect and don't know that this is it for the game. IN 6 MONTHS, YOU WILL BE TIRED OF IT. MASH, MASH, MASH, BOREDOM.............GONE. Even Tekken 7 had so much depth to it, you bought it on day one, and played it through to its last day. THERE IS NOTHING TO KEEP YOU IN TEKKEN 8 FOR MORE THAN 6 MONTHS. Tekken 8 is like the surface of the ocean. Tekken 7 was THE OCEAN.
I kinda feel what's arslan is going through Tekken 8 is a worst nightmare for players with a defensive style, it just doesn't work meanwhile in ranked when I spam the attack button nonchalantly you could never go wrong it always work spamming that is.
Im so happy Arslan is speaking up, dont mind the other takes, they are or lesser skilled than arslan and they dont mind the skill being negated or they are shills bcs they know how vindictive and opressive the developer/publisher is...
T8 is the same way though. They've literally stripped away a bunch of moves and setups from every character which kills the creativity. I first noticed this trend coming from Guilty gear Xrd going into GG strive. Every character in strive lost a bunch of their legacy moves
as a new player i like tekken 8 very much there so much option for offence and a very fun game these pro player can easily beat average player who uses this new heat mechanic the skill gap sstill huge
This game is extremely volatile and it's almost impossible to be in control of a match. By making the system mechanics extremely over powered they reduced the skill gap significantly. Now bad players can seriously take games off good players. This even happened to Arslan in his last tournament. Speed is such a cretin for defending the current state of T8 just because he was a huge hater of T7. Therefor he MUST praise T8! I remember him saying bad players are rewarded in T7 and the best players dont win in T7 (SUCH A LIE!). And this is EXACTLY whats happening in T8.
Where’s the proof that the best players don’t win in T8 though? We haven’t had an actual major with the best players in T8 and won’t until Evo Japan. Matter of fact we don’t even know who’s good at this game. We are just going off of our expectations of players from the previous games because that’s how previous Tekkens were, but it’s clear that this Tekken is far different from the others.
This just is not true. The Saudi Paul (a character who benefited from these new mechanics the least) that beat Arslan played a great game and did so without abusing the new mechanics of T8. In fact, he won by countering Arslan trying to do Azucena shenanigans and playing around Nina’s heat/T8 rushdowns with a defensive playstyle.
Somewhat agree with Speedkicks. I hated Zafina, Kunimitsu, and Feng in 7 for this very reason. Zafina and Kunimitsu had insane backdashes but also had moves that had long reach (Kuni being the worst example with SET stance). Fengs backdash wasn't nearly as good but when you add backdashing with kenpo then you have basically the same problem where catching him is a fucking nightmare. I hated Feng the most because he already has stupid good offense in neutral so he basically starts the round kicking your ass in neutral and then when its finally "your turn" he just backdashes away and kenpo makes you whiff your attack anyways. Saying defense is brainless is pretty wild but I understand it in Zafina and Kunimitsus case. Like just backdash and do SET mixups is a pretty braindead strategy. Or just backdash and throw out b1+2 and wr3+4 every once in a while with Zafina is a pretty braindead too.
How can defence ever be brain-dead? What an utterly acoustic & restarted thing to say. As the aggressor, you know how you're going to attack, as the defender, you're reacting to the move-set, defending a creative attack pattern takes 10x more skill than making it. What a stupid take, I'm actually speechless.
Tekken 7 was also for noobs the same way as tekken 8 is... BUT AT LOWER LEVELS... at the top level everything changes in tekken... The punish specific frames... the strings that end in high that are jsut straight up gimmicks that NEVER work in high level.... just the over all unfamiliarity with the 5000+ move set in the game of tekken makes it a very noob friendly game at the lowest ranks.... But at the highest ranks where you guys are at.... to say it's noob friendly is just ridiculous thing to say. You actually have to FIGHT in the fighting game instead of kicking someone in the leg then back dashing until the timer runs out does not make it noob friendly at the highest level. It means you actually have to get good at reads, and adapting and execution now.... Poor poor top level tekken players actually have to learn how to play fighting games instead of getting good at back dashing..... Speed kicks is my fuckin hero! I love that he has this opinion.
I think tekken 8 in general is very friendly to newcomers like arslan said and it levels the field a little between an average guy and a pro which is not that bad because now the casuals actually have a chance to shine once lol.
I honestly beleive Tekken is just going through what every Street Faighter game has gone through ever. 8 is different. I don't think Tekken has changed that massively since 5, Heat is a huge mechanical change. All of a sudden shit you were doing in 7 doesn't work as well. That's why you get top players losing to not as good players, it's more of a level playing field because right now no one really knows what to make of it. The other part is offence vs defence, effective offence in a new fighting game can take days to create, effective defence can take years. Look at SF6, even almost a year after release and the defensive game is nowhere near devleoped. You contrast that with the end of SFV? Everything was very tight. What kinda annoys me is the dramatics, not from this video but online when players encounter these issues and start making "game is trash" posts. Thaty's not to say people don't have actual balance concerns, it's broader than that, it's more they don't like the games core mechanics, or rather they haven't really got to grips with them, because no one has.
"the game is not for competitive players" okay bye. speedkicks "having the best move be no move is boring, and tekken 7 was unique in that aspect" arlsan "NOOOOOOO ALL TEKKENS BEFORE 8 WERE EXACTLY THE SAME AND TEKKEN 8 IS ONLY FOR NOOBS" again, okay bye. go find a game where you block for the entire round to win. we will keep having fun actually PLAYING the game
Yeah, I mean the nice thing is that, like the gent next to Arslan said, the game will get better over time. The meta will change, but I also think they will balance the game. I'm a Nina main, and I like her a lot in Tekken 8, so I can't complain too much at the moment. I also haven't really played for like a month. Gotta change that ASAP.
Imo tekken 8 is more fun and at the end of the day these games are bought mostly by casuals so if the casuals find it more easy and enjoyable then it was the right choice by the devs, catering towards pro level play is definitely not the way to keep tekken alive and fresh
We talk about games being easier but we don't talk about the skill ceiling being raised. Professionals are already playing at a high level and its hard to look up and see you have more to go. Learning to optimize every aspect has become way harder. If offense is harder to optimize then so is defense. Also these mechanics are new to everyone so ofc it feels overwhelming when your used to 10+ years of muscle memory. On top of that its balance is way to crazy but thats how no arcade releass does. First ever tekken with no arcade testing. WE are the testers. Be thankful we aren't left to dry like MK and S6.
I gree with speed kicks 100% Walking up to someone... poking them a few times then back dashing until the timer runs out is not fighting games..... These poor top level pro's being force to ACTUALLY make reads, have good execution, and better decision making and ACTUALLY being forced to FIGHT in a fuckin fighting game...... oh I feel terrible for them.
@@upplsuckimcool16 The problem is that when you increase aggression while limiting movement options, it becomes more of a gambling game than a tactical exchange. Ideally, reads should be based on timing and conditioning, and players should actually earn the advantageous positions. I also don't know what you're talking about regarding the execution because TK8 made several things easier.
game needs tweaking for sure. Heat needs to be toned down and more punishable. A technique that strong should not be so easily accessible and strong at the same time. People are reaching purple that have no place being there now
Been playing since 7 and I've never touched blue, always got my promo to blue with jin denied by better players. Meanwhile, there's mf's that started with T8 and are already in blue🤦♂️
I regularly encounter tekken kings and emperors with massive fundamental flaws outside of abusing the most oppressive offense flow-chart and vortexes on their character.
Tekken will NEVER favor offense over defense.... It's impossible. The only way to do that is to throw out frame specific punishes... and reduce the move list by like 4000 moves. In a game with 50 characters and about 5000+ moves with frame specific punishes and direction specific side steps to specific strings, it's impossible for it to favor offense. They just saying this because they're used to offense not being so strong and they can't just leg kick people then back dash until the timer runs out anymore... Also... if the game favors offense, then by default it must also need very good defense.... It's just that legacy knowledge is less of a factor in tekken 8 and being a skillful fighting game player with good reads is becoming more of a priority.
That's the thing, the developer knows that the existing player base is going to Play T8 regardless, so the hedge to bets on selling to new consumers.@@epyonsystem1869
I will never understand the idea that defensive Tekken isn’t fun to watch or play. It’s what got me into competitive Tekken personally. You try the game first and feel how stiff and sluggish the movement is. And then you see pro play and pros dashing and zapping across the screen looking for an opening, playing mind games through only movement. Absolute Bruce Lee shit. I will always remember the EVO 2019 Arslan Kazumi vs Knee Kazuya infinite azure match. I had just played the game in an arcade in Japan and saw that and went “oh, so that’s actual tekken”. Incredibly motivating.
exactly. i always thought it wasn't the style that was boring but more so the characters. seeing the same characters in the top 8 like feng, akuma and kuni is what made it kinda lame
Defensive tekken is kinda boring after some time because they just use good pokes to win the game . Watching same pokes over and over repeated is kinda boring.
I quit playing Tekken 8, not because it is too challenging, but because I don't find it enjoyable at all. I also dislike the fact that the execution has been simplified. I used to enjoy improving my execution, but now it feels boring to perform moves and combos. Additionally, the fact that Korean Backdash is not as effective as it used to be is disappointing.
Arslan’s face when speedkicks says backdash for 60 seconds is hilarious lmao. I like that his feelings seemed validated at the end though with Joey Fury kinda seeing both sides since he’s good at that fuzzy low parry style, and sees how Arslan’s style took a lot of work and dedication to perfect at the highest level of gameplay.
This is just a clip, but I feel like what maybe they didn't understand about Speedkicks' perspective is that he isn't talking about the player's ability on defense opposed to offense, he's talking about at the system level. Theoretically if you were going to the absolute poles and either every attack was auto-guarded or every attack was unblockable, in the former's case zero meaningful interaction could occur. However, for the latter, with the advent of movement and spacing, you still can find there to be a mindgame around the game's interactions (i.e. Divekick.) That being said, that's why movement needs to be strong on both axes, not just sideways, so that backdash can help mitigate "mindless" pressure and whiff punishing will be more valuable (and limiting tracking on throws.) This will still make for an aggressive game with how powerful offense is, and even help increase interactions (so long as they tone down some of the damage.)
I definitely see where both sides are coming from and I feel like there could be a middle ground that helps T8 be a great game for both pros and casuals. First of all, I like the idea of T8 having a new and unique identity from previous Tekkens. I think the idea of heat and the way they made the characters more unique from each other was a good idea. I just think some system changes and tweaks need to be made with heat to make it less mindless. I’m with Speedkicks in that we need to see a rebalancing of the cast. If the super top tiers like Drag and Azu get brought down to a more even level with the rest of the cast, we may have a clearer understanding of what’s wrong with the base mechanics of the game. I’m with Arslan and Joey though that there are a few base mechanic decisions that need changing, mostly to do with heat. I think overall there needs to be less canned mixups, especially coming out of stuff like a heat burst or smash. If I block a King or Drag heat smash, I shouldn’t also have to hold a mixup afterward and pray I guessed correctly to defend it. These type of mixups should take more skill to pull off. I think if some of the properties of heat were toned down and it was more punishable if used incorrectly, I think a lot of pros would be happier with the game. The amount of chip needs to be toned down. I don’t mind chip being there but it’s absurd how much health your opponent can gain back by mashing and how much health you can lose by blocking. Especially with stuff like Jun’s heat smash. It really all depends on how Bandai Namco decide to steer this game. I think Tekken 8 is a really fun but really flawed game (not even getting into the plugging and microtransactions etc). It could be an amazing competitive game but it’s gonna need some serious balancing work and system tweaks to heat. I remember how much everyone hated Tekken 7.0 and eventually T7 became a lot of people’s favorites. Hopefully, T8 can follow a similar path 🙏
I agree with this all, Heat smashes should all be universally 18F minimum and not give ridiculous frames on block, At most I think just making them 0 or no more than like plus 2 or 3 is fine. Chip should strictly just be tied to the few moves they're intrinsically on instead of being added to every attack in Heat. But the base game is genuinely great--Sidestepping being better feels nice.(though they do need to fix some of the jank tracking heat engagers have) This game has the potential to reach higher than Tekken 7, and I want it to. Vanilla Tekken games have never been polished, and while I've seen people make the argument that it's not right nor fair to release a 70$ game that isn't polished--a piece of me feels happy to know I at least can experience T8 instead of waiting a year or two watching Arcade gameplay on RU-vid. Praying just as much that T8 can become something truly magnificent.
As a total noob I find power crushes, burst and rage art to be the worst parts of the game. It never feels like I have frame advantage and I feel like I'm the one deal with a mixup even when I'm on the offense. There seems to be too many ways to gain a massive advantage even when you're meant to be pressured. Why are safe powercrushes also heat engagers where not only have you been given the damage if it lands but now a free mixup too?
There is alot more stuff which pissing me off but for the sake of the topic..the worst things are powercrush heat engagers.. That should never be a thing or powercrush Setups that lead into safe heat engager like Steve.. DB 1+2 into sonic fang. Iam a Steve main and safe to say i Use it too, it just doesnt feel fair to play super reckless just because i can mash a powercrush here and there for the safe follow up which heals me back up. Its a nice idea to have heat like a little overboost Tool but if you play more serious..higher ranks or competitively where ppl respect your shit..heat just stalls so much time.
He is right this game is for scrubs. Ppl tend to say stop crying but I think its better to complain about this so there is a chance it improves later. Why be a fanboy?
I agree and have been complaining more lately. I've been supporting Tekken since the beginning and honestly I feel like T8 is a slap in the face to a lot of long time fans (like me).
Brain dead defence..right..yeah because that was definitely the worst and most toxic thing to deal with and biggest problem...errrr ok 🤦 Basically you don't have patience..I saw the best players beat 'brain dead defence' to snatch victory at the last and it was hype! What a load of crap
But it’s cool someone running away the whole round? Speedkick hit the needle on its head running away all day it’s a 3d fighting game that why I prefer Vf force you to engaged
I dont find any fun in ranked rn. T7 was war better than this shit. Heat Heat Heat How many Times I lose cus that Heat , as a Steve main fuck Tekken 8 im gonna stop there until they balanced the game
Problem is not that its not same tekken. Its is and its that the offense is to strong so you have to spam it before opponent or you wont be able to handle neutral. Heat is completely brainded. Time should be reduced and properties aswell. They will do it after a while
I think games should be fun for everybody and that tekken 8 found a good middle ground. Especially considering all the defensive patches to come. It helps hook and interest new players while easing them into the depth.
I like Tekken 8 game and made it to Mighty Ruler, but ultimately the heat system and the constant 50/50 game + the snowball style made me quit playing. Tekken 7 was kinda busted too but T8 is just worse
Y’all playing since tekken 6?😂 I’ve played all the tekkens. Tekken 8 is fun but I literally lose to people just using rage arts, heat smash, heat burst, power crushes. No combos, no poking, no dashing, no strategy. Don’t even talk about rank. It’s terrible 😢
Ultimately I don't think it really matters whether the game favors defense or offense. Scrubs like me will still be scrubs. Pros will adapt and win as always. It's just another style
@@user-wg1gd5gg7sthink there's more to it than that. If you're just looking at gameplay, 8 is a very simplified version of the game which runs the risk of having a much shorter shelf life as a result. Evo will be telling but Tekken has always had a lot to it but this one seems a lot more brain-dead to me
@@jdizzle1779 There's also more to it than simply saying the game is braindead/dumbed down. Speedkicks is right when he says it's more of a different playstyle. For example, there's more depth compared to T7 in the sense of resource management. The combo system is deeper now. The decision of using heat burst or going for a heat engager to recover more life or gain more heat meter. The recoverable life system altogether. Using moves specifically for chip damage. Deciding when to heat dash and the different rewards for doing so on hit (different heat engagers give different dash follow up scenarios). Etc. There is definitely a romanticised version of Tekken that people don't want to let go of because they believe it is more 'honest'. The reality is we are still playing a fighting game and there's meta and counter plays. Skill will still prevail. Strong defence will still make the difference. Correct decision making will still matter. I would agree T8 is more volatile, but what that generally means is you have to work harder and play better to achieve the same consistency as before. This can actually benefit spectators and players apart from the best of the best in which case of course Arslan will be upset. A similar thing has happened with SF6. However, I think defaulting to a "this game is braindead" stance simply due to that is a bit braindead itself. I've been playing Tekken competitively since T5 and a lot of the OGs I know from even back then are ultimately saying the game is tough in ft2 but FUN. I welcome a change to the formula we've been playing for so damn long now. I've also seen this same doomsday rhetoric for every version since T5: T6: the game is ruined for adding rage and bound Tag2: the game is ruined for such large damage rage bonus, dual character archetypes, even stronger combos T7: the game is ruined for adding PC, rage drive and rage arts People generally don't like change and even less so when it causes increased hardship. However, things WILL settle down, pros will adjust to the meta and I have faith Bamco will balance the game to a better place; we've seen promise in that regard already with Drag, DJ and now Azu adjustments. Give it time. Too much hyperbole and knee jerk reactions. The better players will still prevail over the long run and that's what ultimately matters. The meta is SO early still. A lot of players are still for example refusing to utilise PC in a game where it is encouraged. Optimal punishment is nowhere near being achieved yet. Resource management is still all over the place. It is tough. We need a year of gameplay and balance adjustments to truly see where we stand.
Namco needs to step it up, they have a great game in their hands, but anyone agrees that it is an unbalanced mess. Instead they are pushing out shitty patches with shops, game pass and stuff that nobody cares about. Do they want to drive people away from their game? Because that's exactly how you do that
The Heat system mainly looks boring and mindless because it resets for every single round so we keep seeing Heat Burst, Heat Engagers, Heat Smash and Heat Dash very often. I think there is a middle ground that I have heard others mentioned. The Heat Gauge should have to fill up when your attacks are blocked or doing damage and whatever amount is taken into the next round. Meter management would come into play like Street Fighter.
That's an interesting idea! I tend to agree that it's boring to see them every round. I wonder if the Tekken team will make a more subtle change though, like adjusting the properties of the moves to make them more less safe on block, slower startup frames etc.
A regular strike to fill meter was never going to happen, it's just a balancing nightmare in a game like tekken, they spent 6 yrs balancing only akuma. Imagine having to manage that with Nina and Hwoarang next to the likes of jack Bryan, or kuma. The more aggressive types would generally benefit more. Capcom ditched it in sf6 for a reason. It eliminated one layer of strategy and balancing these devs have to deal on with.