The Garments of Skin 

Links: -Support the GodsDog: Warrior Kickstarter today. Only 5 days left to pledge. Don't miss out: www.kickstarter.com/projects/symbolicworldpress/godsdog-warrior -Check out this text I wrote in 2002 that started it all. “Garments of skin” and other symbols of periphery, by Jonathan Pageau: drive.google.com/file/d/190xqZrzqQv3o4F7jjfP05OGgisbN_5zQ/view?usp=sharing

I’m Latin Rite Catholic and you’ve enriched my faith and understanding of the scriptures and the world so much. You’re one of my top references when I dive into these conversations.

Giggling at the sneaky way that Jonathan called the institution of marriage a "death that fights death". 🤭

Investiture with garments is both biblically and universally a symbol of authority. The Book of Genesis, from one perspective, is the story of the removal of Adam’s faux-garments of authority (giving him authority over a world corrupted by sin and death) and the bestowal of the symbolic new Adam (Joseph) with the “rainbow garment” he receives from Jacob. This is theosis. Just as the Lord is wrapped in a rainbow (Ezekiel 1), we receive this same rainbow glory and lose our garments of death through union with Jesus Christ.

This is one of the concept I learned about on here that altered how I look at every single thing every day. The reason I just cancelled my prime membership and Wall Street journal subscription but kept my symbolic world membership is not because I forgot it was there. I really feel like I’m helping others by contributing to this resource. I’ll skimp other things that I don’t feel so good about supporting, but this one can improve lives and the world I dwell in. It’s staying.

Nibley talks of this very thing in Temple and Cosmos

Man these art samples are incredible. Really fantastic inks you don't see often!

I love this speaker for his willingness to go there, to consider, and then have an opinion, a viewpoint, on all this really deep and mysterious stuff. One of our great societal failings is our lack of appreciation of mystery, of the unknown, the things that our words or science can't encompass.

First time viewer. I just finished the Frank Herbert’s dune saga. Synchronicity led me to this channel. I had discovered the “ouroboros” episode and continued through the “garments of skin”. Wow Mind blown!!🤯 Maybe I’m making false connections, but these episodes gave me sooo much insight into the novels. I have to wonder if Herbert really knew what he was putting into his works or if my mind is just grasping for patterns. Regardless, awesome episodes. Thanks for your work.

So this is why superhero’s have suits. I’ve seen a few iterations where the suit itself grants the power.

This blew my mind. I am learning so much from JP.

I really appreciated the essay you wrote in 2002. Specifically the end. Christ as the center which is not desecrated by the periphery is a powerful image which I think is easily intuited but not easily explained as you have done. Thank you!

This pattern is also present in David's life. David kills Goliath by slinging his singular stone at the giant's head (like Esau in the apocrypha decapitates Nimrod), and he ultimately also falls to his own giants, his sons (confused progeny from poligamy) which are also a stand-in for his passions... Absalon tries to usurp him. Why? Revenge: David's first son rapes his half-sister (again, reinforcing the idea of confused progeny). Why is the progeny confused? Because David "likes women too much", just like Esau likes power too much, so David's own home is a mess. This is the forgotten reason why the meek will inherit the earth: because the ambitious will not be able to hold it and rule it, their passions would rule them instead. Fortunately, Bathsheba does provide an heir for him (after the first one dies)... so curiously, here, the "foreign woman" is not just the reason why "the house David" has troubles, but also its salvation.

Have read Life of Moses and need to read it again.

I am doing my undergraduate theology dissertation on the Greek father interpretations of Garments of Skin in light of transhumanist aspiations for humanity and technology. I will have to send you a copy when I have finished as I think you would find it interesting. I know that you and Mattheiu (probably correctly) dislike the way that academia is these days but I'm trying to redeem some of that by bringing in symbolic thinking to academic theology. (My way into this is by reading the Church Fathers of course.) P.S. Thank you posting your 2002 paper, it is really quite beautiful how it all ties up in Christ.

Thank you Jonathan

Since Christ is called the new Adam, and Paul refers to baptism as "putting on Christ", could the sacrament be a continuance of the passing of the garment? Additionally, the vesting and succession of the priesthood through the laying on of hands? The symbol seems to abound in the Church

I think it would have been interesting, and maybe it is this way I have no idea, if Esau gave up his birthright (garments) under the guise of being so hungry, but he is actually trying to rid himself of the evidence that it was he who killed nimrod to throw off the mighty men chasing him.

I love this analysis and walk through these ideas. And even as I write these statements out... I am considering... Adam and Eve heard the VOICE of God... WALKING through the garden. We WALK by faith... not by sight. Faith cometh by HEARING, and HEARING by the WORD of God! I love how true God's Word is and amazing it the levels and depths it goes to and through.

Thanks Jonathan

Mmm. So Adam and Eve had everything, having nothing. While we, having everything, have nothing?

The Latter day Saints have a ritual for the garments of skin or new clothes ceremony in the temple and its meaning

So cool, had me on the edge of my seat even

@Jonathan Pageau - I've always wondered how Joseph's Coat is connected because it is connected in some way to the garment handed down from Adam by tradition.

The implications of this are legion. I'm no theologian, but my gut tells me this notion just may be a key to the whole operation. Very impressive, indeed. "The garments skin" could be applied to technology, and Leviathan as the State.

I hope God's Dog: Warrior can reach the $200,000 mark! I really want that beautiful dust jacket Stretch Reward 🤞

I know a Tolkien guy who would love to know these stories I think

Our parish has an icon of Elijah, John the Forerunner, and St. Anthony the Great. St. Anthony was known to wear a garment of camel skin. There is another very peculiar story about Saint Anthony burying St Paul the Hermit and recovering his garment made of palm leaves, any insight there?

Interesting discussion in this video. Could this be related to Jesus’ message about pouring wine into wine skins? He says if new wine goes into old wine skins they burst and wine is spilled. Does Jesus mean His body is the new wine (garment) skin? And was His blood spilled in this reference?

This is incredible, beautiful story, and a beautiful book

Awesome

I heard from the Oldest Stories podcast that Nimrod may be the name for the Mesopotamian titan-sized demigod Ninurta, and I like the idea of Esau sniping him and cutting off his head after the fact for a trophy, because it would take days, and the cutting off and dragging away of the head would wear him out, all for the pride of excess glory, leading him to Jacob's doorstep in the famished exhaustion of his own making.

I thought that there was a belief in Orthodoxy that the garments of skin that God gave to Adam and Eve are our mortal bodies, and that before the fall humanity had more perfect material bodies. When I heard this, it was said in conjunction with the idea that mortality is a gift to humanity in that it gives us the opportunity for repentance, lest we become like the demons who are eternally fixed in their rebellion.

🙏

So where them garments at? Send me location brother

This has beautiful art.

Esau even forgives and welcomes back his brother that had stolen his heritage. I think he often gets a bad rep, but when you think about it he beheaded Nimrod and was a forgiving person. Maybe he wasn't that bad after all?

Strangely enough I just had the same experience with this riddle around the three Marie’s

I would recommend you do a biblical review/ analysis of Spider-Man 2 by Sam Raimi. It has lots of biblical concepts.

I just want to say that the way you unravel the story of Christianity makes it really feel as though I am a part of that story. I have learned that in many ways my mind is over-rationalized and conformed to a Western way of thinking. I have been recently looking into the claims of the Orthodox Church because of how you have explained meaning in an older less materialistic way but also more convincing and profound. Do you possibly have any resources that you could point me to to learn more about orthodoxy?

Hmmm im yet to watch yet, gotta feed skids and put them to bed etc however, i must say you piqued my interest because of the title😮😊 not many delve into this subject. So it will be interesting to hear your thoughts when I have a quiet house🙃

Thanks

In this video JP refers to St George as the "keeper of the skins". Does anyone know what he is referring to here. Has he addressed it elsewhere? Thanks

This is really cool

Have you connected the Adam's garments of skin with Christ's cruxificion robe/robe of glory? Spearing death.

Interesting that you decided to show that Ham only saw his father naked rather than "uncovering his nakedness" considering you explained what that means in another video once.

Garments are symbolic they are actually covenants or keys to those covenants passed down and shared with true followers of Christ.

Jonathan, are you aware of the song from the Grateful Dead brother Esau we just listen to it, nice tie in.

I wrote a story based on apocrypha aligned with the biblical narration, it was really good, very fun to write, and in the story I take exactly Jasher 7 and 27 about Esau killing Nimrod, and take a bit to focus on both of them, they story and all and how Esau kind of redeemed himself in the end but his people still were opposing to God's people, the edomites were his descends that became some of the Arab tribes together with the ishamaelites, the two 'tribes' or peoples that came out of Lot's daughters, the Moabites and Amonnites, I was thinking that the story in Assassin's Creed is so appealing to me cause it goes back far in the garden and it's captivating storywise, the Lisu people that were gods were the first people before humans and all, I'd suggest you to check it, maybe you'll like it, it goes away from the biblical story but still very interesting.

That ARK looks EPIC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Mantle.

PLEASE review Dune part 2 and its symbolism of the Messiah. This movie tackles the Messiah from a secular and religious framework. This movie actually moved me religiously. It has themes of Oedipal mothers, sociopathic fathers and every archetype inbetween. Have fun!

Jonathan how can we get you to make a video on Dune: Part Two?

Could the Garments of Skin have some symbolic connection with the greek mythological Golden Fleece?

I am watching this video after having read your paper “Garments of Skins” and other symbols of periphery”. I am a quality manager and for years I have been instructing my staff on the layers of the “quality onion” to separate the areas of responsibility and accountability. Imagine my surprise to literally read “like the layers of an onion” in your paper. So much of the organization I work for struggles with understanding this. I had that same synchronistic feeling that you describe in the video that tells you that you are in alignment to the pattern. The paper actually further emphasizes my belief in the purpose of the skins of the onion to separate and define/protect (and yet envelope) the identities of the lower (or core therefore lower-yet-higher/purer) levels. Those in the organization that are trying to transgress the layers are doing so for greed/control rather than an understanding of protection of the integrity of the layers and proper hierarchy.

Still... The best intro art/music in the game.. years runnin I have the same Vida de Moses

Does anyone know where to find the gods dog series? I missed the kickstarter window .

Jonathan, could you delve into the symbolism of the poles? Does it imply that wandering too far can lead to demise, with this state being metaphorically akin to the death and desolation of winter?

Does it support your work better if I buy this book from any particular mediator? Is there a way to purchase it directly, I have found it on Amazon but...

Nimrod inspired by Liverking

Ah yes, as it is written: "And Jacob sod pottage"

I already contributed to the Kickstarter but not the tier with the Garments of Skin comic. When will it be available for individual purchase?

En-ki-du; fashioned for gilgamesh (a 'robot'..)..'???'

based.

So are these stories true or are there hidden meanings behind the stories?

For those of u as oblivious as jonny here. Note the 3 sixes next to his right ear ... do u think this lets the algorithm know not to bury?

In my Christian faith tradition, we believe that as soon as Adam + Eve ate the fruit “their eyes were” opened + the first thing they saw was that they were naked. Satan was right there to point it out. Even though he’s the one (in his mind) who convinced them to transgress God’s law, he’s right there to point out that they should be ashamed of what he himself convinced them to do (which is how he continues to operate today). Satan tells them to make fig leaf aprons to cover their transgression + to hide from God. Adam + Eve don’t like the feeling of being exposed + ashamed, so they take things into their own hands to change that reality by sewing makeshift aprons out of fig leaves to cover their nakedness - to cover what’s exposed + make themselves presentable to the Lord. Compared to the coats of skins that the Lord later provides to cover their nakedness, these fig leaf aprons are pretty sad. But don’t we sometimes make pathetic attempts to cover our nakedness? God is not the problem here - God is the answer. We don’t need to hide from Him, we need Him to cover us w/ His Atonement. We can’t cleanse ourselves from sin - it's beyond us. We can’t work out our own forgiveness - it comes as a gift of grace. And no matter how many fig leaves we sew together, it will never be sufficient to purify our hearts + cleanse the stains from our garments. It takes a holier garment from God to do that. And it takes the robes of righteousness that He provides for us. So the symbol of fig leaf aprons reminds us that our own individual attempts to “clean ourselves up” + make ourselves presentable to God are insufficient. Fig leaves wither + die very quickly + the fig tree will just grow more leaves to replace the ones we used to cover ourselves. But God used the skins of an animal to cover A + E’s nakedness… which means that animal had to give its life for that purpose. So when we think of the garment w/ which the Lord provides us alongside the fig leaf aprons that we make for ourselves, we see that our only hope is through Jesus Christ. In my faith tradition, we wear a garment even today to remind us of the covenants that we’ve made with God and as a physical reminder to take upon ourselves the name of Christ. And that we need His Atoning sacrifice to wash our garments clean of our sins. Thank you for your interesting perspective.

You lose me a little with this interpretation, Jonathan, but I'm trying to keep up. Our Tradition teaches that the birth right Esau (Esaf) rejects is the Patriarchal Office i.e., the role of High-Priest among God's people. It is therefore Jacob who becomes the Head of the Body of Israel rather than his older brother, just as Christ, the Second Adam, becomes the Head of the Body after the First Adam failed to live up to the demands of the Office. As St. Gregory writes, Esaf surrenders his birth right by breaking the (spiritual) fast, symbolised by eating the (red) porridge offered up to him. Jacob, on the other hand, keeps the fast. As you well know, the Church equates this to its own relationship to the Synagogue, the former being the younger brother and the latter being the elder. That is to say, the Church is Jacob (Israel) and the Synagogue is Esaf. Rabbinic Jews invert this symbolism, equating themselves to Jacob and Rome (that is to say, Christianity) to Esaf; how they justify this is lost on me but this is common Rabbinical teaching. Since I know that you're as familiar with the typology as I am, I'm wondering how it is you bring this symbolism together? Are you equating the garments of skin to the Patriarchal Office? If so, what are we to make of this symbol resting with the descendants of Ham for several generations? Notwithstanding that, if there were a link between the garments of skin and the Office of High-Priest, then I'd suggest to you that they might well appear again, in the form of Christ's robe. Like the robe of the ephod, the robe symbolising the Levite Office of the High-Priest, Christ's robe was blue and seamless and we Orthodox understand it to be a symbol of Christ's true High-Priestly Office. It is, of course, interesting that the (Roman) soldiers cast lots over who will take ownership of that symbol. To this day, more than one 'Rome' claims to be in possession of the robe...

I'm thinking this will all end with John the Baptist who was 'clothed with camel's hair' being given to Jesus at baptism!

Did John the Baptist have the garments of skin? I was thinking the other day how he is similar to Easu. Just like how Jacob and Esau couldn’t stay in the same land, John also had to “ Diminish” as he pointed out, when Christ came, and he diminished to prison and to death.

Then of course there is the prodigal son, how do we square that? Those garments are gone. Perhaps it signifies the end of the world and the serpent crushed. Makes sense.

The Church of Jesus Christ keeps the ritual of endowment in the temple. Its available and reachable to all who wants to follow Jesus Christ

Did Solomon have this garment and is this where the witches cape arose?

Strange. I get the symbolism but, dang, in real life, Nimrod was long dead before the time of Abram, never mind Esau. It’s a bit like having Pelagius kill Goliath.

If this is true, wouldn’t the skins then be a symbol of righteousness and grace?

To me it’s fascinating how the serpent turns from the smartest of all creatures into the personification of the devil. In the jewish tradition this connection was never made. How come it became so important in christian tradition?

This is a modern midrash

Is Jonathan even a college graduate?

Esau's exchange of the birthright for food is the same as Judas selling Christ in exchange for silver coins. He then tries to repent but ultimately doesn't.

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Aren't you in the middle of a live conference?

(Jesus is a living literal present being. Probably building the 'city of heaven' rn. Rev 21: 10-25). Post millenial reign on earth and now his work/task in heaven type. (Millenium from king arthur to the re-entry of amurica).....'idk'....

I am not sure Jacob is a good guy in all this.

Still trying to ride Jordan Peterson's coattails? 🤣🤣

Jonathan! I just had a thought! I don't know whether this would be good or not, but a content idea -- I remembered you mentioning it being more difficult to get ideas after covering so much already now -- I had the idea that maybe it would be good to create content that sort of guides people as to how to watch your content. It could be things like how to get into the best state of mind and what to watch first or what seems to be the most important for the current time at any given time. I don't know if I got that across well or not but I think I got the gist of it down. And thank you for all of the content! I've been watching since I saw the video where you talk to somebody about 'Old World' and 'New World' types of thinking! I thought I was gonna lose whoever it was but then here I am today watching your videos a lot.

Couldn't the, coat of many colors, worn by Joseph, be seen as his reception of the coat of skins perhaps received from Jacob? I've heard, "colors" could also be translated as, "markings." Jacob is blind, but feels the rent coat and identifies it as the holy garment.

This is why Latter Day Saints wear a Holy Garment. Great exploration of this symbolism, Jonathan.

Is it reasonable to conclude that the garments of skin are lamb skin?

I've always had the intuition that animal skins or "natural clothing" is very important, it always appeared in all my stories

Jonathan, you come across as an academic in this video.