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Battery news is always so slow and minimal, but there's so much juicy detail here, down to the exact problems that were occurring at the factory. All of it is appreciated, ty!
Yes. They are also in the process of changing the Megapacks batteries from 2170 to LFP, which frees up A LOT of 2170s for Model Y. Using the 4680 for low volume like Semi and Cybertruck this year and next makes sense.
Makes more sense until they have developed the technology to the point where it's affordable to individuals. It's far easier for them to compete with $200,000 semi trucks than $30,000 consumer cars.
I'm amazed: someone who can think, write and speak really well. Plus who knows and understands what he's talking about, plus has a nice personality. _And_ shows complete consideration for his viewers - makes everything clear _without talking down to us_ and has mastered the craft of pacing a presentation. TTS Guy, you are a true rarity. Subscribe button soundly smashed.
I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed that Cleaner Watt was producing from a minimalist apartment. Maybe it's nothing more than a backdrop.
I got recruited to be a Tool and Die Maker for Gigafactory Texas for the battery division. After 8 interviews over months, they just ghosted me. Completely ghosted. It was a dream position for me. It was pretty crappy to ghost me like that after such an extensive process.
thanks for keeping on top of all this stuff. We're somewhere around 620,000 in line to get our Cybertruck, so every battery development has our attention...
Haha! I’m on the list somewhere too. I wonder what the new prices will look like. The old price schedule that was up when I made my reservation is gone.
0:54: "Elon has admitted that 4680 will not be a factor this year" Cybertruck: "What da? ... do I look like a Tonka toy to you?" Semi-Truck: "Ooo ... can I be a Hasbro Transformer toy instead?"
It seems a little copper/metallic paste would help energy transfer on the anode/cathode areas. Just like thermal paste (for heatsinks) and no-ox in high voltage connections.
@@DunnickFayuro True, but as the machine is currently performing the entire batteries construction, applying compound to the lid (the last step) should be quite simple. The compound could even be an epoxy type material for strong adhesion and heat resistance. A similar substance is used in motor winding. It could be altered from an insulator to a conductor.
2:03 Stacks of modelY Structural Battery packs. Just a thought. Maybe Tesla is stacking/aging them to be sold in cars produced after Jan 1, 2023 to get the battery cell credit of $35/kwh, and is using the 2170 packs instead. This 4 month delay increases each battery pack value by $35*80kwh = $2800 Let's say that they make 10,000 of them over the next 4 months... That would be an extra $28M in profit. Just a thought.
I think what everyone here is forgetting, is that a certain percentage of manufactured parts need to be set aside for repairs to cars already on the road. Structural effects and battery defects are inevitable and must be covered under warranty.
the stockpile of 4680 structural packs isn't really large. it's probably just a buildup for a quarterly, limited production run, of MY-AWD. Note that the MY-AWD is still an employee-only order item, not to the general public. Note also that the stacks of Megacasts outside the Austin casting facility are almost entirely REAR casts; very few Front casts are shown out there (though there ARE several production frames full of Fronts). BTW, Cleanerwatt's background is a greenscreen and the 'kitchen' just a still frame.
My strategy is to invest in Tesla stock for now, in 5 years buy a car. Batteries, software hardware and other features seem to be getting better every week.
So, the stacks could just be they have switched all of Texas to 2170 only MY and the remaining 4680 batteries are built into structural packages and stacked. They are also creating more gigapress parts and stacking them.
The global leaders in EV battery technologies are CATL and BYD, both produce plate-type battery cells and package them into battery pack using the Cell-to-Pack (CTP) technology. Compared to 2170 or 4680 kind of cylindrical batteries, CTP batteries have slightly lower energy density in terms of Wh/kg, but have much better thermal conduction and therefore are much less likely to catch fire; in addition, because CTP battery cells can be densely packed together, at the system level, it can achieve higher energy density in terms of Wh/litter. For example, CATL's latest CTP 3.0 battery can achieve 255Wh/kg for ternary battery systems, and with the same chemical system and the same pack size, can deliver 13% more power than 4680 battery. Unlike 4680 still faces technological hurdles in mass production, CTP 3.0 battery is technologically ready and is expected to be mass produced and comes on the market in 2023. Although Elon Musk has been hyping 4680 as some kind of revolutionary battery, the truth is that 4680, just like 2170, is still using cylindrical cell, an inherently inferior architecture compared to CTP batteries.
04, Nov and we have Tesla añouncing enormous production of cells for grid storage, trucks, cyber trucks and a vast increase in car production. Maybe trebling production. This is another turning point that Elon has brought about.
Hello everybody! The car with new 4680 batteries does not have any problems with the quality of assembly: the details fit perfectly, all the gaps between the panels are excellent, the paint is done conscientiously, the same applies to the interior.
Preproduction adverse effect? Other than axial to axial alignment the dominant telescoping is governed by polar differential foil pretension. ie left edge Vs right. Factors? 1) is chemical coating left/right uneven thickness variance. A thicken left moves foil to the left. 2) foil approach with pretension has left/right differential, a higher tension on the left it telescoping to the right. 3) the pretensioning differential was free drifting is a regulation problem. Remedy? Apply an active (closed loop) or reactive (passive) left/right pretensioning balancer/damper, this will compensate for 1) pretension drift and 2) chemical thickness drift If we are using rolling fence to manage telescoping, second this effort and keep it as last resort.
Research into electric storage batteries is essential to the future of the electric vehicle. Whatever problems vehicle owners face, they should be addressed by innovative creative ideas to make advances in electric battery development. An EV is only as good as it’s batteries.
I watched how to make a good pie crust today. I found that texture and the process of the cold element and chopping of the butter has a lot to do with the development process of a perfect PI.😜👍🍒
I have faith in the cybertruck having at least the second generation batteries, maybe they will also be the first to get the third generation ones as well.
Page 11:00 depicts an anode flaps contact wafer an intermediary part to conduct anode current at the cylinder base. Notice that characteristic S laser weld path. Problem? The anode flaps formed a ripple rich profile in front of flat portion of the contact wafer, flaps that are in touch with wafer can be welded, only a fraction of flaps are touching the wafer, flaps not touching the wafer will become a welding void. Practically this is dotted line welding, to an undesirable higher standard deviation.
Not sure about the current thickness of the copper film in the jelly-roll. But I wonder if it can be made thinner without compromising thermals - increased roll length --> higher power density. Maybe that would help with terminations at cathode/anode as less resultant mass there.
@@TheAnthonyBrandi good thinking. We are looking at skillful labor kind of task also very hard for machine to carry out. The next best way in a automation is selective induction heated soldering. Solder reflow the anode flaps and the cylinder base directly, bypassing the wafer disc. Leaving us a heat and current friendly solution.
Nice summary, For the last 8 years Tesla has been battery limited hence no point in putting either the sober truck or the semi out on the market when Tesla makes more money in the volumes of 3's and Y's. Tesla in Markum in Canada is an expansion of the Hibar company (specialist in battery manufacturing equipment) they bought in 2019. This should not be confused with the current "Giga Canada" roomers.
All those extra structural battery packs are marked with YSB on the container. YSB is the Sudbury, Ontario, Canada airport code. Sudbury, Ontario is one of Canada’s largest nickel producing cities, and is near Cobalt, Ontario, which has been ramping a Cobalt mining operation. I wonder if a decision has been made about where a Canadian gigafactory might be located….
Don't know what Tesla's actually doing with the powder I would have suggested that it be stored at full vacuum and at low temperature, that's eliminating opportunity for moisture incursion
Napkin math... The assumed 1 mm of additional length inside the can (recovered because no current collector is needed) with qn external length of 80 mm. Maybe 75 mm inside. Additional length coils that add 1/75 more volume would only add 1.33% more power. 2 mm - 2.66%...3 mm 4%. For this to work they need to pack 7.5 mm longer jellyroles in the can. Kind of doubt they have freed up that much space. A 10% increase in power means something else is happening on version 2 cells.
With something like this and the general progress of rechargeable batteries, it is strange why do we still have disposable batteries allowed? On Amazon, the price difference is not that different. Every controller on the Playstation since ver 3 has rechargeable controllers. XBox took their time.
There are many reasons but if you want only one, it would be that lithium cells are far more dangerous. Any sizeable lithium cell is capable of dumping several tens of amps if short-circuited, usually ending up causing a fire or injury. An alkaline AA can produce maybe 2 amps? Less if it's a AAA. If you short circuit those they'll get a little warm and that's about it. That's why 18650 cells are everywhere, but never designed to be user accessible. There are also things like money. Xbox was making a bigger profit on controllers without batteries, now they charge the same amount ($60) but they have to pay for those cells they put in there now. Oh yeah, since rechargeables aren't user accessible, think about longevity. 360 controllers are old as dirt now, but you can still use them like you did 10 years ago with a fresh pair of double AAs, if it had a pack inside it wouldn't work very well or at all by now. Not like anyone keeps devices a decade though, let's be honest. But you get the point.
@@MicroplaysMC If it was so dangerous, it would not be sold at all. I get rechargeable batteries on Amazon. Every laptop on the planet has rechargeable batteries. I am not buying this reason. There have been a few cases of incidents with some batteries like the hover board and Boeing 787, but they were related to battery construction quality and or charging electronics.
@@sammcbride2464 Yes... That's why there have been few cases, because it's just a matter of quality and not user error. Rechargeable AA and AAA are not lithium batteries, they are nickel metal hydride (NiMH) and operate at 1.2 volts. They are also low power. That's why they use a different chemistry 🗿.
@@MicroplaysMC 9 Volt is lithium. Laptops are LiPO4. I just bought a charger that will charge 16 AA/AAA and 2 9-volts. I can buy a case of 4680s and build my own power wall. There was an unsafe time with Li batteries, but that has largely been fixed through internal electron safeguards. Even with NiMH, it seems odd that we are still using disposable batteries today.
@@sammcbride2464 There isn't a lithium chemistry in the world that is 9v at the cell level, not sure where you got that number. All modern laptops are indeed lipo4, still 3.7v nominal, as 18650 cells are too wide (which is what they used to use). Cool charger, what's the brand? (I'm curious) Lithium batteries are still unsafe though, same as always. Idk what the hell "internal electron safeguard" means, but the situation remains the same. The BMS is the only thing preventing a short or cells from over/undercharging. If you short circuit an individual cell, it will dump all of its current, same as always. Disposable batteries still have certain advantages over rechargeables. I even look to convert devices in my house to rechargeable, but from a business perspective it doesn't make sense. Not for consumers, and neither for manufacturers.
Almost everything Tesla, and SpaceX, have created has had a solid uphill road, but it has not been something that has stopped Tesla. No different with 4680. That seems to be a hallmark of Tesla, and SpaceX. They work it out, and they do not spend more time than necessary in doing so. Just my impression from the outside.
I think Elons greatest strength is getting people to push the envelope and make stuff work. He's beating moores law and wrights law with all this hard fought innovation but man is his team paving the way for the future. The chinese care companies are really innovating along with them and the OEMs are all starting to realize how screwed they are/will be if they don't get on the same page. Its taken such a short time to go from cell phone batteries in a lotus to the fastest production car on the planet, what do the next ten years hold for electric cars? 20k to beat a Bugatti?
Higher priority for use of the 4680 batteries will be given to Tesla semi & Tesla cybertrucks since most Tesla model 3 and Y and various Tesla battery storage solutions can still use the 2170 or other batteries provided by various Tesla battery suppliers. Tesla semi and Tesla cybertrucks will have difficulties using the 2170 or other batteries provided by various Tesla battery suppliers?
I wonder when batteries will last the lifetime of the car. Like a lot of batteries last roughly 8-10 years. Then cost $20k-$30k. Many of these batteries are used for home solar systems. It would be nice to not have to worry about it until 30 or 50 years from now.
They already do for the most part. Batteries kept in normal temperatures age mostly from use, not time. Take a model 3 LR for example, the pack is rated for somewhere around 1500 cycles before losing more than 20% capacity. 1500 cycles with an average range of, let's say 250 miles in the real world = 375000 miles before battery is expected to be under 80% of original capacity. If you take the LFP model 3 on the other hand, it gets way crazier, as those packs are expected to hit around 4000 cycles with ease.
In part most of the batteries they have produced do. It’s mentioned a lot that recycled batteries would be better than ore at the mine. Hopefully it’s just easy to replace initially, and over time lasts as long as you are saying per lifetime before recycle.
There is a lot of duplication of info among the various channels covering Tesla, but what you have in this episode is stuff I have not heard or seen elsewhere.
Im getting a new 85kw put in my 2013 model s. Because tesla doesnt make 85kw for the S anymore, my new battery is actually a 100kw that has been software reduced to 85
In a Model Y with the 4680 battery and a range of 330, I have heard that there may be a future software change to expand that range? Can you provide this insight?
I feel like a pouch cell would be easier and cheaper to make, keeping the same tabless design, lower weight, less materials, and can incorporate better heat activate fire safety between cells. Feel like they forgot the KISS rule for engineering and made things more complex than they need to be due to greed. Also don't really get the point of a "structural" battery pack. You way have way more design freedom with pouch cells and easily cast ribbs and dividers into the battery pack. On-top of that the way they foam fill everything makes it harder to recycle/repair bad sectors.
@@TheTeslaSpace I’m thinking Semi Truck, Model Y, Cybertruck, then Model 3 for the order of the vehicles that they will prioritize 4680 cells for. They may switch over the Model X and Model S if there are cost savings and other benefits (longer range, improved acceleration, etc.)
We purchased a 2022 MYP in December 2021 and were told that was a foolish choice since the new 4680’s and Tax credit would be here soon. Lol. Since we already own a MYP, no need to rush, but we’ll update next year with the new tax credits. Would love to see 400 mile range. 300 mile range is really pushing it some days and you have to really plan your trips with a lot of redundancy and time built in.
Listen man 400 isn't enough unless it charges back up in 5-10 minutes and if you have to leave early for one reason or another you might not have enough juice.
Waiting on Gen 99 for the 4680 battery. Still waiting. Still waiting. Still waiting. Here's an idea - wait until Tesla delivers a vehicle that uses the 4680 and we have a video of a regular customer driving it. And not some famous guy that just makes videos all the time.
Teardowns Show Tesla's 4680 Cells Are Just Big and Ordinary NMC 811 Batteries. I don't understand how Tesla fanboys get exited over everything so quickly and easily
I am just confused why anode is said to be the negative side of the battery??? Is the whole presentation as accurate? My education is suggesting ANODE is the POSITIVE side of the battery. I hope I got it right or else my comment is sad :)
The 4680 would look really cool in reloading a handheld electric mass driver. Seems quite ergonomical and... Chunky. Yeah. Too cool to pass an opportunity to design one around it.
Is it known what is energy capacity of currently manufactured Structural Pack MY SR from Texas ? I don't mean what Tesla claims, but what is actually measured. Sandy Munro who teared down that pack mentioned he was surprised it's 4680 is much more energy dense than what he was expecting, but was not exact with numbers.
Thought they've made an energy drink. Imagine if they did? You drones would drink that shit 24/7 no matter how bad it was 👍 Edit: Oh, right! And I know you guys hate me saying it - they're Panasonic batteries. As with Apple, Tesla likes taking credit for a ton of accomplishments they didn't achieve.
Personally I like the Japanese EVs where they drive the vehicle into a battery changing station and within 3 or 4 minutes, the battery is lowered from the bottom of the EV and a freshly charged one is installed. It costs $12.00 per month for 6 battery changes. The batteries have a range of over 300 miles per charge. They even have a 500+ mile battery for a little more for the subscription. The vehicles cost about $10K less because, they do not come with a battery installed. I like my gasoline vehicle better than any EV.
I will only order a 2170 cell Tesla model Y, as the current design of the structural pack leaves us with a poor design for recycling with all that pink foam, they have to do a better job with the structural packaging.
Its amazing that "tabless design" is branded as something new. Pretty much all prismatic cells have been tabless since pretty much the inception of prismatic cells. Toyota also makes dry cells, but only at pre series volume. Again, prismatic cells.
