I think the main problem is guys for some reason want Amy to be this perfect flawless character with no negative characteristics. When first designed on day 1, what was Amy? The love obsessed girl. She even holds on to sonic and doesn't let go until you jump away from her. Then by the time adventure came out, every character got fleshed out more. It's here we got a good sense of Amy. She IS kind, she IS helpful, but she's also love obsessed with Sonic. She's also mentally short sighted on ocassion. She gets mad over things that are petty or mildly annoy her. She's cutsey, girly, kind hearted, expressive, but also a hot headed ticking time bomb with a love obsession and isn't afraid to use violence when she gets heated. And that's why Amy worked as a character. The same character gets flustered and hot headed over the smallest things and chases sonic with a mallet in her hand is the same one who stops everything to help a bird reunite with it's family, or begs shadow to have faith in humanity to save the world. By removing all these negative character traits and making her this flawless character that isn't allowed to make a single mistake, you're effectively killing Amy as a character. IDW Amy is no longer Amy Rose. It's just this new replacement unrecognizable to the character built up from CD-black knight. I don't mean to come off as rude when I say this so apologies in advance, but this video is the perfect summary of what's wrong with the fans' unreasonable expectation for Amy. In your video you say "So I ask, is it really unreasonable for me to think that this character who's supposed to be this sweet, caring, and deeply understanding one shouldn't be outright bullying people?" Yes it is, because 1, she isn't bullying anyone that is an exxageration, and 2, because that's Amy's wild side. People for some reason want to exaggerate certain aspects of Amy's character to an unrecognizable degree while pretending the rest of her character doesn't even exist. They don't like what Amy Rose is. They just like their own version of Amy. And in a post 2010s world...the hyper expressive rounded out character that has been around for decades is now a shell of what she used to be. I also want to mention that people forget one important aspect of Amy that was also lost: her carefree spirit. She wasn't out trying to change the world, she wanted to explore it. She wanted thrills and an adventure. She isn't hunting problems to fix, but she'll still help in whatever way she can when she sees someone in need in front of her. But...sega replaced that fun adventurous Amy for...what we have now. She's at least more expressive again, but the rest of her character is just gone. EDIT: one last thing I want to mention is the "she grew as a character" argument. There was never any character growth from that made Amy what she is now. She just changed into something completely different. Character growth would be the series acknowledging the growth over time, showing that progressive change. Shadow had character growth from game to game, whether people liked that growth or not. Knuckles had character growth showing how friendlier his relationship with sonic got over the span of a few games (S3K-06). Amy has gotten character growth like trying to be more independent in SA, but never anything big enough to make her flat out lose her characteristics. I'm not saying thats what you said in your video but it's an argument I'm tired of hearing because it's not truthful.
I agree to a certain extant. A lot of Amy's earlier traits can help flesh her out. It's also important for her to have character flaws. In fact, I found her depiction in Adventure 1 and 2 to be endearing and there were a lot of neat ideas in the following depictions. However, my issue was how they were executed and that it's important they be handled and balanced more carefully. I can accept Amy having an attitude and a wild side (I'll refer to it as "genki girl" like TV Tropes does) to her. Hell, I'm fine with her having a crush, even if it's not reciprocated. It helped humanize her and made her a fun character. I also agree that to an extant that it feels less like character growth and more that the developers/writers just flip flop around. However, I felt it started way back post SA2. The thing is that after that game, some of her traits became exaggerated and dominated her character (or flanderized, as TV Tropes puts it). For example, her crush on Sonic. While the two of them didn't interact much in SA1 and 2, they could still interact. When Amy did flirt, it was more silly and playful and could dial it back (for example, in the Prison Island breakout cutscene, when Sonic inquires about Shadow's whereabouts, Amy teases if he would marry her, he gets uptight, and she responds "I thought I had you this time" in a tone that sounded like she was smiling before she frees him and answers his question (if this were like her depictions post SA2, she'd keep him caged until he complied)). They still genuinely cared for one another's wellbeing, like at the very end of SA2 when everyone but Sonic left the ark, and Amy checks to see if he's alright. She had her crush, sure, and could be outlandish, but she was still respectful and the two could hold a conversation. But after SA2, their interactions became one-note as Amy was exaggerated to be obsessed and irrational. Even if that was always the creator's intent, I always felt, even as kid, that it was dull, frustrating, and painfully awkward. More concerning was that she became rather unpleasant towards her friends. Some games like Battle had her even be mean to Cream, who is just a child and is supposed to be Amy's closest friend (Amy even went so far as to come at her with a hammer in Rush just because Cream questioned her crush). I get that it's supposed to be cartoonish and silly. There is room for eccentricities and bombastic elements. But the way it was executed felt mean-spirited IMO. While Amy had an attitude in the Adventure games, she wasn't this cruel. She could still interact with others in a friendly manner. Even with their limited interactions in those games, she was affable with Tails and Knuckles. In many of the games that followed, she came across as less of a friend and more as some juvenile nuisance who they occasionally let tag along and tolerate. On the other end, I felt it was mean-spirited to her as well as it set her up as an antagonistic jerk who was going to lose out in the end and come out as a fool. Granted, some games in the mid 2000s did tone down some of her negative traits, namely her aggression towards her own friends (example, Sonic 06 and Unleashed). Still, I felt she was one-note and awkward for the most part, especially compared to the Adventure games and arguably Heroes (at least she had her own friend group and took charge). It also shows that even before the 2010s, there wasn't a 100% clear consensus of what to do with her (same applies to the other cast members, such Knuckles either being capable of a buffoon, Shadow being nuanced or a total edgelord, Tails going from a confident man in the Adventure games to being a timid sidekick again, etc.). It was like it depended on the writer (or if the same one, what the writer felt like doing). Now, again, this isn't to say that her current depictions are definitive. A lot of her earlier traits such as being a temperamental and genki girl could work. It just depends on how it's handled as it can be nuanced. How would I do it? To be honest, it's rather tricky for me to define exactly as a lot of it is contextual, nuanced, and complicated. But I'll try. For one thing, I'd keep her current depiction's friendliness and her decent chemistry with others. I always found her Adventure self to be a well-meaning fellow One thing I enjoyed with Frontiers was seeing her and Sonic discuss things like actual partners. Say what you will about the writing, but I frankly liked seeing the two banter again (and I'm not talking about shipping. I'm neutral about that). What I can incorporate, though, is that she can be uptight at times, sometimes even bicker with her friends (more likely with Knuckles as they are both temperamental) without getting too mean-spirited for either end. After all, that's what friends do at times. Hell, I can see her having berserk moments if handled right (to be honest, I'm mostly blank or having writer's/thinker's block. The best my puny brain can come up with is her misinterpreting something as a threat to one of her friends (like "I don't hunt rabbits with a cannon" from One Piece, and she thinks it's a threat to Cream) and she throws down the gauntlet or hammer). Again, sorry for my lackluster example). Her being naive and occassionally aggressive can also serve as character flaws that can get her in trouble, even if she tries doing the right thing (ex. As much as I don't like Sonic X's version, I do like how in the third episode where she tries arguing with Knuckles that they save Tails from being shot at by the missile mech. When he refused to budge, she stormed in out of desperation. It sadly resulted in her getting held captive, but her impulse wasn't ill-intended). As for her crush on Sonic, I wish it was more playful and silly. Even if he doesn't reciprocate, they could still be genuine friends (again, sort of like in the Adventure games). And of course, I believe she should be excitable and outgoing. That I can easily get behind. Although, I do believe it's possible for her demeanor to depend on the context (ex. she can be more soft-spoken to characters like Cream, direct in serious matters, cocky and confident like in Heroes when venturing out on missions or adventures, etc.). Again, the key thing is balance. Hell, as much as I didn't like depictions like Heroes, they had a lot of neat ideas. Bring back Team Rose (or at least Cream). Bring back her training element from Battle (I like the idea of her pushing her skills and/or strength despite lacking the natural abilities the others have. Perhaps she could say that she self-improves either to better her chances to help her friends in case they need help; because it's too much fun to stop moving; or whatever). I'm the kind of guy who likes to find silver linings even in works I don't care about and repurpose them. Forgive me for writing so much. Lately, I have been thinking a lot about this character and I do agree that she can have more characterization than her current depiction. There's still work to be done. However, I can't agree that her depictions post the Adventure games were the best direction. Even if that was the creator's intent, as a consumer, I frankly don't agree with it (just as any other work). Again, though, I do believe in channeling some of it to repurpose it. But alas, I don't have any input on what's going on and can only give my take. Thank you for reading.
Please understand that I never held a hatred towards her character. Quite the opposite. I felt that she had a lot of interesting ideas even way back when. She has the potential to be my favorite Sonic character for being energetic, fun, silly, caring, and humanized with traits like dealing with a crush, being temperamental, and not having special powers like the other cast members (kind of like Batman, except with far less plot armor). I just felt that her traits weren't being balanced and her potential for interesting scenarios and stories kept getting squandered. If anything, I felt sorry for her (as I do with the other cast members getting flanderized one way or another). On the bright side, though, a fairly recent game that came out may fill in that void. I haven't played it yet, but I heard Amy's depiction in the visual novel The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog restored her genki traits and is thus an eccentric fellow again. Again, though, I have to see for myself how the whole story pans out (like whether she retains a a decent chemistry with others, even if she can be a goofball), but many folks seem to like how the cast was handled. Again, hopefully, artists will find and strike that sweetspot.
5:20 man I wish they did this. It would have made the forest fire arc feel less like filler if we got some tension between jewel and Amy about the restoration. It also would have made knuckles more understandable since Amy did the same thing.
I still don't have Heroes Amy bad, even if she wants to focus on Sonic more, because in the end she DOES help her friends regardless if she is "just using it because its a bonus to find Sonic" it doesn't detract from the fact she encourages them enough to help them, because to me if she truly came off that way of being selfish she would've left her friends when she sees Sonic. It's only after her friends are all reunited, she goes to chase Sonic, which she doesn't even take notice of until Cream points it out, otherwise she's giggling with her pals. Her priority even shifts from Sonic to Eggman once she realized the Eggman on Bullet Station was a fake. When it comes to that scene from X where she threatens Chris, Amy wasn't literally going to harm Chris, she just used it as a lure to get Sonic out, the fact Amy apologizes to me, means a lot more than if she didn't. I also don't think that scene is meant to be taken seriously. Amy is a character who was supposed to be more extreme with her emotions, especially when she feels valid for Sonic standing her up on a date, then proceeds to side step her when she sees him. It's like how people hate her in the cruise ship episode, when tbh she was valid. Since Sonic was a dick to Tails too! Again, this is my perspective. lol I actually like X Amy, minus a couple moments.
I can totally see that argument but I just think it doesn't play off that way with the examples I listed; hell, when I was getting that voice clip of Amy for the Heroes section, I had to listen to a bunch of them and it seemed 95% were about impressing Sonic or winning Sonic over, whatever the case may be. For Episode 42, if the opening scene were played as a joke then I think it falls flat, imo. Comes across to me as, not something super-serious like Cosmo's sacrifice ofc, but something "sincere" for lack of a better word. Amy's not really gonna hurt Chris and it _does_ mean something that she apologizes. Again, it just kinda feels to me like maybe learning a lesson and sticking with it might've helped since the show had made attempts at character development with others, and especially since they had her acting more like she did in SA1/2 during those games' adaptations. She had reason to be upset, that can't be denied, but I just feel like they could've done something more. I felt the cruise ship was the same sorta deal as the Riders example and almost used it in my counterpoints so no real disagreement there (which I fully acknowledge is a point I've changed my mind on since we had a small chat on last year's video), tbh.
@@skull902 Like I said different perspectives are all in good fun. I just feel her being a little caught up on Sonic. Like when she mentions in the Egg Albatross fight, where she says "Let's get it so Sonic will be head over heels for me" is totally fine, because I don't think it detracts her character. Yeah, she's wanting to impress him, but I feel that's a rather positive way to go about her infatuation compared to something like Sonic Battle, where she goes to the point of being nasty to her friends and neglecting her own self-image for him, she's just turning her previous admiration of him into confidence. I mean coming off the heels of SA games, it would make sense how much she wants to impress him. I think to me, I don't mind it because her attraction to Sonic in Heroes isn't hurting anybody, she's not hurting her friends and, while this is an opportunity to chase Sonic around, Amy is at least caring enough to help them too. Especially since even though Amy has Sonic as a motivation, suspecting him kidnapping their missing friends at least got them to go for the chase, there was a reason for it. That's kind of where I stand, Amy isn't hurting anyone, and she comes off as just more confident with her advances. If there was anyone who's character I think was done dirty in Heroes, its Rouge and Tails. Heroes Amy is my favorite version of her in the games next to Adventure 1. Free Riders Amy is the worst version of her bar none and takes Heroes Amy and does her WORSE! And yeah, Idk why people hated Amy there, she was totally valid in the cruise ship one. Especially when she was only doing it in response of something he did in return. I also find in the Metarex Saga, minus a few moments her obsession with Sonic was more toned down in that season compared to the previous two. I also disagree with Archie Amy, her character in the Archie comics is very much like she is in the games, it's just that she's given more to do and expands her interactions with characters. It even does the Sonic Rush story and does Amy a MUCH better service than the actual Rush did, Cream too. Since I wasn't a fan of Cream in that game either.
@@gleamingroses2952Touché, but even though no Sonic character is really “perfect”, do you think Sonic the Hedgehog is a good character at heart even if you have clever, agreeable comments on different iterations of Amy Rose (and Princess Peach as your profile pic as her is face in the 2020s Mario movies is literally your profile pic, lol, and she’s definitely a lot better written than other “strong female characters” in modern Hollywood like the ones by Disney via Marvel and Star Wars) or do you think he has too much asshole moments (not just towards his rivals by beating them up including his ex-girlfriend Fiona Fox who might be one of the worst by shamelessly cheating on him thus proving that he can be a victim even if he fights back, but also towards his own friends like in the Archie series every time his friends like Tails, Knuckles, Sally Acorn and Silver the Hedgehog before they understood each other in the very late issues, take for instance)? Because I think The PJ Show and Characters-in-Depth did great analysises on Sonic the Hedgehog (character) rather than just focusing on the bad qualities on Sonic the Hedgehog to get people to hate him and feel worse for the characters that are mad at him (re: Zeena and the rest of the Deadly Sox in Sonic Lost World)
Great follow-up! I agree, I hope what we’ve seen in Frontiers and Dream Team is the way forward for her writing. It is looking good. Also side note, I love how you have the old twitter logo overlayed with the “X.”
Just watched the original and came to this one after seeing your comment about revisions. I liked your original, but I appreciate the follow-up. 3:18 I also like that you pointed out that Sonic is an ass in the anime lol It’s clear from your videos that you know your stuff! My favorite Amy is honestly either Amy from “Sonic X” or in “The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog”. Amy in Sonic X was really memorable, and I found her quite charming. Not to be that person that makes everything about gender, but I really think she got so much hate because the fanbase is mostly male, especially when the anime aired. I always found her to be a cute representation of a young teen girl lol Lots of us obsessed over boys or celebrities as kids. In TMOSTH, I thought she perfect, tbh. Yeah, she made comments about “My darling Sonic” and whatnot, but she was funny, confident, sassy, and was ready to stick up for herself when Eggman pisses on her birthday party. It really didn’t reach the point of “obsession” for me. I’m not a huge shipper myself, but I was rooting for her the entire game, so when Sonic caught her, I was like, “Good for you, girl. B)” Her in Frontiers was really not my favorite. She’s supposed to be energetic, compassionate, and kind. The “energetic” part really didn’t come out enough for me. I know you mentioned that Frontiers is a pretty serious game, but it just didn’t feel like Amy to me.Talking to her made me feel solemn, LOL. Also, the “I’m not a damsel in distress” line was a bit on the nose for me. Sorry for the rant. Loved your video and I’ll def check out more. :)
Everyone's certainly welcome to their own opinions; if you like X Amy, more power to ya. I just personally don't see it. And to be fair in regards to your other criticism, maybe, but then again Chris is easily the most hated thing about the show, so who's to say? XD Everyone in Murder Of Sonic was portrayed so well, Amy's no exception. They knew they were doing a more wacky cartoonish plot and delivered on it quite a bit. She gave off a similar impression to me; not obsessive, just enthusiastic With Frontiers, I feel like it would've felt weird if Amy had been like "Yippee! Another exciting adventure for us to go on!" while all this more grounded stuff is happening. Emphasizing her natural optimism and caretaker qualities in place of that is how I think you'd make up for that, and they got it down imo. What's missing the most for me is that her conversations with Sonic didn't feel as personal as those with Tails and Knuckles. And yeah, that "damsel in distress" line. Oofers Thanks for the compliments! If you catch any of my past or future videos, I hope you enjoy
I got 1 question after the original and this video how does Prime Amy fit in? (to be fair, we don't see much of her, since her traits were split between Rusty, Thorn and Black Rose, but still)
I thought she was good in Prime for what little we saw of her. Amy's alternate counterparts were also done pretty well, but not without some things I thought could've been better.
This is a great follow up on this video about Amy Rose! Especially after Sonic Frontiers got an update, Sonic Superstars and Sonic Origins, and that Sonic Dream Team came out. Amy Rose definitely has great character development, she still loves Sonic but she doesn't chase him anymore. Never overlook the fact Amy is trying to be helpful to her friends no matter what. Plus I love that Amy and Sonic are actually communicating with each other instead of Sonic running away from her. When he did that, it might sound like he hates Amy, but that is definitely not true at all.🩷💖🌹🥀
