Support me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/ElusoryYT 00:26 Act 1 - Getting Made 08:06 Act 2 - No More Shines 15:56 Act 3 - Batts and Spiders 23:14 Act 4 - Closing the Books 29:22 Act 5 - Jittari i Virmiceddi
important note: during the Lufthansa Heist, Tommy took his mask off in front of the hostages and they got a good look at his face, Jimmy could have simply used Tommy for the hits to take out the rest of the crew, and then snitched on Tommy so there would be no more witnesses of the heist
That’s true I read that he removed his mask so he could wipe the sweat off his forehead. He was the only description they had. The robbery took 48 minutes so I bet they were all sweaty and nervous. Tommy may have been killed just because of that. Who knows what really happened w Tommy. Could have been Jimmy or Paulies order of the popular opinion that Johnny boy himself did the work as revenge for his friends William “billy bats” Bentvena and Ronald “Foxy” Jerothe.
In reality, Tommy was killed for various reasons... the killing of billy bats & another man, not mentioned in the movie named foxy. He also had tried to rape karen hill, who was having an affair with Vario at the time.
@@dat3rdsideboy386Wait what??? That completely contradicts shit that happens in the movie. Damn man I gotta look into this. Because Paulie was the one always telling Henry go home to his Wife and kids and always told him family first plus paulie seemed like he was the most honorable out of the crew. Damnit man thats crazy if it’s true
@@PapaLu08Alot of the facts were changed up by Henry to make himself out to be a bigger part of the game than he actually was, I hear that the real crew wasn't as chummy with Hill as the movie depicts, because of his drug habits. Also he apparently physically looked alot worse than his adult depiction in the movie.
Jimmy Burke did really cry when someone told him that Tommy got whacked, did exactly what robert de niro did in the goodfellas, breaking the telephone and the booth too, because Jimmy Burke knew Tommy since he was a teen and was very close to him, and so when heard that he got whacked he cried... this is all according to Henry Hill. There is an ex mafia member who makes videos on youtube, whose father's character was in the introduction scene, his name's Fat Andy. now i dont remember the ex mafia guy's name but he said Tommy Desimone was his best friend, and was Paulie's friend, and he even knew and liked Pete the killer like a friend too. he said Tommy got worse and worse to the point where when Tommy said him to come with him in the car, he refused and said he's busy, that's how crazy he had got...
@@Elusory Yeah I think it's a look-alike or whatever but it was supposed to be him within the context of the show of course. But it's strange because Marty went on to work with Terrance Winter if I'm not mistaken for boardwalk empire And obviously Steve buscemi was in there too for both shows
4:47 Wise Guys actually has a couple connections to Goodfellas. 1. It was directed by Brian DePalma, Scorsese’s good friend and director of Scarface who discovered De Niro and put him in his early films, plus The Untouchables. DePalma similarly changed the title of his movie Carlito’s Way from the original novel, After Hours to avoid confusion with Scorsese’s 1985 film. 2. Both of Scorsese’s parents have cameos in the Wise Guys as party guests, of course they both appear in Goodfellas as Tommy’s mom and Vinnie, the guy who made the sauce in prison and witnessed Tommy’s murder. 3. Both Frank Vincent and Harvey Keitel have roles in Wise Guys. Frank Vincent of course plays Billy Batts in Goodfellas, also appeared in Casino, Raging Bull, and the Sopranos. He and Pesci got their start as singing comedy duo in the 70s. While Harvey Keitel was discovered by Scorsese and appeared in his early films, including Mean Streets and Taxi Driver with De Niro. He used to be with Lorraine Bracco (Karen), and helped get her the role in the film. Their daughter plays Henry’s daughter in the prison scene. He also appeared with De Niro and Pesci in Scorsese’s The Irishman.
i think Henry was directly involved with Batts murder (physically, not just locking the door), the Lufthansa heist and the whacking of acquaintances like Two-Times. He says, 'but it had nothing to do with me'. Why say that? Was he not part of Jimmy and Tommy's crew? He distances himself because of the possibilities of repercussions.
That’s the thing with Scorsese crime dramas. Basically every one of them is based on a true story and all these guys are obviously going to have them being portrayed as better than they actually were. Like Henry never committing a murder, I don’t buy that. No way all these murderers would trust a guy who never ever whacked anybody. Or how in the Irishman, frank sheeran claims that he killed Jimmy Hoffa, like sure pal Edit: not saying they’re bad movies. I think they perfectly capture these guys lifestyles and what it was like and Scorsese is so skilled at making it engaging. But I don’t trust these guys accounts on the stories they’re telling Scorsese and they have influence over the film. Like Jordan belfort literally showing up at the end of the wolf of Wall Street. This man definitely probably made himself out to be better than he was, like basically claiming he only ripped off rich people.
The Batts gay thing is a non starter. A made guy isn’t going to admit that in any context around his crew or others. Turn of phrase to let his crew know that he isn’t afraid of Tommy/Thinks Tommy is a nobody.
Scorsese gives me Uncle Jun vibes with him giving the whole “he’s part of a whole generation” argument for not liking The Sopranos. That and the way he looks (i.e. Italian Larry David)
I just remembered something I heard a long time ago with regard to Tommy's death in real life, I think from the Bloodletters And Badmen youtube channel, which is a channel dedicated to cosa nostra. Allegedly, the way the Gambino Family found out that it was Tommy, a Lucchesi associate, who killed Billy Bats, a Gambino soldier, was through Paul Varrio, a Lucchesi captain (Paul Cisaro in the movie). The alleged motive was that Paulie wanted Tommy gone because he (Paulie) was sleeping with Karen Hill while her husband Henry was in prison. Tommy also tried to get with Karen and when she refused Tommy's advances, Tommy tried to rape her but was unsuccessful. She immediately told Paulie, her lover about it so in response Paulie went to the Gambinos and told them that Tommy had killed one of their guys, knowing it was an automatic death sentence for Tommy.
I dont get it. People getting lazy. At 13:12 while stating "...insisted on using real cash" shows an edit of a scene using prop money. You would think that when editing the video, you would make sure that what you present doesnt conflict with your premise. Take the time to find the scene (if there is one) where real currency is used!
Cool video, I would have put Lois's censored airline ticket near the end of the film. I still don't know why that was done since that never happens in the rest of the film. I've also wondered why we've never seen any kind of deleted scene or outtakes for this movie which I guess is common for Scorsese, I've only seen one for Casino.
yes, what a missed opportunity that was. I always wondered that myself too on the censoring of the airline ticket. Might have just been a cheap trick by Scorsese and the editing crew to evoke an extra sense of realism
It's interesting how you mention the implausibility of the Goodfellas Melfi theory because we have a very similar situation with Steve Van Zandt and whether Sil is actually the main character in the show Lilyhammer. The Sopranos is referenced twice very directly from what I remember, but at one point seemingly at random another character refers to Van Zandts' character as 'Sil'. Now, this where you have to open your mind a little bit, but I'd say alternate universes within The Sopranos is very much on the table. We already know that there are very subtle supernatural elements within the show through the presence of Lyvia that AJ experiences after her death and the apparitions (Paulie's vision of the virgin Mary or, more relevantly, Pussy showing up in a mirror that one time), take that along with the fact that Melfi and Tony actively discussed the possibility of alt realities following Tony's psychedelic experience on Mescaline. Oh, and yeah, Kevin Finnerty, of course. Overall I'd say there's enough there to speculate about the theory as well as in regards to other characters besides just Melfi. That's why imo Lilyhammer is probably Sil's coma altering his awareness to reality to the point where he literally becomes a different version of himself and I think similar comparisons can be made elsewhere, too. My point is that I suppose Goodfellas and Sopranos aren't a shared universe, but perhaps two entirely distinct and yet connected all the same universes merging. Idk. I'm usually really against contrived speculation about supernatural elements in stuff that's very much not about that but Sopranos managed to do it so well that I really can't help myself
uhh… Henry wears the Star of David because his wife, Karen is jewish. Karen’s Mother (Henry’s future In-Law) only wants Karen to marry another Jewish man, so Karen lies and says Henry is half jewish, it’s why when Karen’s mother says “Oh i heard your half jewish” he responds “Just the good half!” the star of david is to trick his in-law, not because he’s jewish. Henry hill was a catholic
Morrie and Jimmy isn’t quite right. Remember that Jimmy was pissed for not getting the money Morrie owed him. Morrie figured he could get back to even and then ahead, but was such a ballbreaker. Morrie probably wouldn’t have lived out to old age, but he probably could have lived longer if he had done like Henry.
As someone who is from Ohio, its a perfect state for witness protection. Really all you have to do to blend in is be an OSU buckeyes fan and drink more than usual.
That’s funny, I’ve never seen or heard about this iceberg but I did notice the Crucifix and Star of David and always saw it as Henry cared more about wearing the jewelry than he cared about what they meant in regards to religion. I mean, Henry was no moral man and any religion was superficial. Karen being Jewish to him just meant, “Oh, the wedding is going to be a little different.” 🤷♂️ And I’m speaking strictly about Henry in the movie.
I reject the notion that someonr in an interreligous marriage is a hypocrite. There are thousands of interreligous marriages. Are they all hypocrites? I prefer to think of it as love taking precidence. Besides, neither Karen or Henry seemed religous and their necklaces were maybe just jewelry.
I think its a bit much to say that its unforgivable that he doesn't like "The Sopranos", it seems its more a matter of taste and that its a different mafia from the one he grew up with, I also wouldn't be surprised if its because he feels its trying too hard to be like Goodfellas (which makes sense because even Chase regrets making the first season too similar in tone to Goodfellas). And if he's afraid David Chase is eclipsing Goodfellas with The Sopranos, then he shouldn't worry anymore after Many Saints... Lol
The point-shaving racket was a whole section of the book. I think it was removed because it wouldn’t have really connected with the story that much or been that entertaining, same with Henry enlisting in the army to try and leave the mob early on.
I totally agree with the unreliable narrator part. The fact that all the big violent scenes, people getting beaten to d, guys talking about violent things and laughing while Hill looks on in quiet disgust. Henry is always apparently "just watching", or "just so happens to be there" when the other members of the crew do these terrible acts of violence, but never seems involves himself in the act. Making himself seem like a victim of the people around him, when he was clearly a part of it too.
As a catholic, i used to wear 2 Star of David rings in my right hand. I am a full blown hypocrite, but don’t get me wrong, i was wearing because I thought it looked cool lol, but it is not uncommon seing catholics using the Star of David in some way, protestants too
I think the unplanned trilogy was Mean Streets, Italian Americans ( his documentary) and Good Fellas are the trilogy. Raging Bull is a beast of its own in my opinion
15:46 i think it was not Sonny Corleone but his father Vito Corleone. The message was conveyed through his lawyer, Mr. Tom Hagen, which the director rebuked!
I feel the child grooming bit could also apply to something going on between Billy Bats and Tommy. That comment about guys like him in the can and the way Tommy reacts to the comments about "spit shining" has some very disturbing and dark implications about their past relationship
The Sopranos is nigh-inarguably the greatest italian american work in showbiz history and Marty has only publically commented on it ONCE ever and it was negative. How is it a big big (two bigs) stretch, Ryan?
@@Elusory because he only ever talked about it ONCE, it's insane to make up so much bs based on one instance and he didn't even say anything negative. That is a lie on your part. he just made a vague statement about not understanding New Jersey and the modern mafia because thats not the time and place he is from.
@@ryancialone3045 Haha ok, high effort response: Chase has gone on record numerous times stating the profound influence that Goodfellas has had on his creation, not to mention how many were brought on for Sopranos that came from Goodfellas. Imagine you are Chase, and Scorsese has only gone on public record ONCE about your creation: one of your heroes in the genre space, reducing your magnum opus accomplishment to: "I don't get it." Here you are, calling me a schizophrenic for asserting that Scorsese probably hates the show/Chase. Scorsese has gone on record to laud horror movies with monsters in them. So he must "get" that world, but not Sopranos, right? Scorsese partnered with Terrance Winter and others who worked on The Sopranos to produce/direct Boardwalk Empire. I guess that means Scorsese "gets" 1920s prohibition era Atlantic City, but not the italian mafia operating in upstate New Jersey 90s - 00s, right? To say you disagree with my assertion that he "hates" it is fine if you want to play semantics, but you seem to be asserting that he's justified in being totally disinterested and dismissive of it (if this is your position, aka that "art is subjective and he is entitled to his opinion", then you are both a Sopranos Hater and Marty Apologist. If true, thank you for unveiling your true identity) It would be like if Stan Lee (Marvel Comics) only ever made ONE comment on Batman or DC comics, saying that he "didn't get it". If you want to pretend there isn't an enormous sub-text there, then ok, you're entitled to your opinion. Not sure where calling me a scizo came from
Vincent and Pesci should have done one last movie together in which Vincent beats up Pesci. Then he could have gone to the big show business in the sky with the score being 2-2.
32:57 Frankie Carbon is based off of Angelo Sepe and Richard Eaton the death scene with him in a meat truck is reference to Richard Eaton death IRL he sold Jimmy some fake coke for 2.5 million dollars
There were actually other witnesses besides Jimmy and Henry at the bar when Tommy comes back to kill batts. One guy and girl leaving right when Tommy walks in
The point of that bit was to identify the first time Scorsese (not De Niro) worked with Pacino. It was intended to be Goodfellas where Pacino was asked to play Jimmy, then there was this project called Modigliani that I actually didn't touch on in the video that never came into fruition, so The Irishman was technically the first time. Separately yeah, Heat was indeed the first time De Niro and Pacino worked together
Cop Land is an excellent film. it's one of a handful of movies that I will watch over & over again. The cast is LOADED. Sly, The Wolf Harvey (Pulp Fiction), Ray Lotta, Melfi, I'm tired of typing. It's a much watch and it's fun to watch cops try to evade the cops who investigate cops. I may watch it now for a refresh...:)
After watching this , because of some of your interpretations/opinions on this film.Makes me wonder if you actually understand this film at all.This film has many layers and it seems like you have only watched it at its surface level.
Scorsese is just player hating on Sopranos because now Goodfellas sits in the shadow of Sopranos but without Goodfellas there would be no Sopranos so he feels under-appreciated
You should’ve put Goodfellas Early script in the middle of the iceberg. The original script started during the Billy Batts Party scene. And I believe the death was more accurate. Tommy repeatedly beats him with a shovel before he’s put down, just like in real life. But this was changed to stabbing. Instead Scorsese decided to use En Media Res, only fellow screenwriters know what that is
I’m so happy this video exists thank you😂 the realization that Henry was groomed is literally so obvious but I never fully realized it until now😅 I did first watch it as a kid myself so… damn
In real life jimmy talked Tommy into killing Billy bats because when Billy went away to prison, Jimmy took over Billy‘s racket and now Billy was back, which would cost Jimmy a lot of money Billy was also a friend of John Gotti, who is rumored killed Tommy
You're correct. My brain didn't work here and when I say Sonny Corleone instead of Tom Hagen 🤦🏻♂️ Thanks for pointing that out @dionysoscub. No idea why I said opening credit roll whatsoever. Deserves its own iceberg talking point
I think Scorsese may just genuinely not like the sopranos. I don’t think it’s fair to assume that the only reason why he doesn’t like it is because he feels threatened by it (while that could be true).
What an excellent video. Really good points of view. I do think the scene where Jimmy is upset at Tommy being whacked was an act is a stretch, but then again maybe not. I just don't think thsts what Scorse was trying to convey. Any regard excellent thought provoking takes.
I've never been able to separate the events of the movie (and book) from being the subjective POV of a snake like Henry Hill cause I don't at all believe he was as innocent as he made out or we see in the film. He acts like he was around all this violence yet never really participated past throwing somebody a beating or whatever. But the dude was a stone sociopath. There's an interview where he's laughing about "them" beating a woman and breaking her arm iirc and he's smiling about it like it was all a good time before realizing he's too into it and it looks bad and gets control of himself again like OJ in that one infamous interview where he does the exact same about his wife's brutal murder. Even if he himself didn't pull the trigger or anything like that it's very hard to believe he was with those guys and didn't actively participate in murder(s) past just hiding Billy Bats' body. Maybe I'm tweakin but that's what I see in him. He was in love with all of it, even the violence, he was just also a self-centered coward and screw up. Also, Billy's statement definitely comes off like sexual assault, but Phil's relations didn't necessarily have to be. Billy's either really, he just maybe worded it that way cause he a bigot and doesn't wanna look weak. Prison assault is definitely a real thing, a horrible problem, and is sickeningly played off as funny as often or not, but A. It's not as widespread as some make it out to be, B. It's rarely random and is more of a weapon and punishment be it for enemies, people who steal, people with bad paperwork like those who hurt kids or women, people that don't repay debts, etc, and C. There's plenty of willing participants in the joint so there's simply not a reason if all they're tryna do is get off - assault is about power, domination, inflicting pain, not physical pleasure alone. The Sopranos has hella cast members from Goodfellas, the Godfather movies, Micky Blue Eyes, and many other movies mentioned in the show as well as musicians like Frankie Valli playing other roles who are also mentioned as existing in their universe (which is basically our universe with those changes and a maybe a little metaphysical stuff). So I don't think that's a good reason even if I think all these theories, like Karen being Melfi, are pretty boring and stupid lol Pretty sure in the movie Jimmy ratted him out, in reality and since we have an unreliable narrator that we know is a scumbag it very well may have been Henry.
Henry's Mother was Sicilian & His Father Was Irish-American❗️‼️. That's Why Originally Henry Could Never Be Made..."You've gotta be able to trace your family back to the Old Country‼️❗️."
No .. Gotti wasn't even made until years after. Henry later said that Gotti was the one that killed Tommy but that was because he had murdered his protege foxy. Paulie gave him up because he tried to r.pe Karen who Paulie was having an affair with while Henry was in jail
