Thanks, Devin! My wife retired from a school system here in Colorado and receives a pension. I am semi-retiring in about 3 weeks on July 1. I am waiting to apply for my SS benefits until I am 70. So I just had a conversation with a Social Security employee and asked about the GPO. She told me that if my wife was to apply for a spousal benefit, that would only be for half of my FRA benefit, not for the benefit I would be drawing at 70. And it turns out that 2/3 of her pension is exactly what her SS spousal benefit would be. She might get $20 or so. Not even worth applying for unless I pass before her.
There are different government pension mainly Cival service CRCS (which did not pay SS) and then FERS Federal employee retirement system which do pay SS. Some are retiring now that are both.
Hey Devin. Consider comparing this to a dual income couple covered by SS. In your example, Susan, receiving $3K, and husband, receiving $2.2K. If husband passed, 100% of Susan's benefit would be subtracted from husband's benefit -- she would get no additional benefit. It is likely that Susan's gmvt pension is higher than it would be from SS, so it really is a wash. The point is GPO treats folks fairly, but gmvt workers have been victimized by the retiree organizations. If the state paid FICA this would all go away. The retiree associations should be talking to the CHEAP state!
Just give me back what I contributed because I get $0 now. I paid 6.5% for my retirement annuity and 6+% into SSA. THAT WAS ALSO MATCHED BY MY EMPLOYER. So just give back what I put in with the appropriate interest. Same as when the government borrows from the SSA trust fund and later repays it.
What is the 1st spousal benefit? Is it 2/3 of their benefit? If so SSA screwed me over. I was not collecting disability for myself nor did I retire early.
Thank you! This will help my wife decide whether to take a small pension from her part-time public employment or just take a lump sum distribution including interest. I managed to avoid the WEP for myself, but she may have to make some hard choices regarding a public pension since she would be taking spousal benefits from my SSA record instead of her own. She is entitled to her own SSA benefit of $600 or $700 per month (unless she is impacted by WEP) but the spousal top-off from my SSA record should be worth an additional $600 to $700 per month. Can she be impacted by both WEP and GPO?
When I was 47 years old I was all done with the federal government I was given a pension with the understanding that I would still receive a bonus take the bonus at47 or wait till I was 60 I opt out to wait till I was at my full retirement age that I would not be penalized for it that age was 70 years old I'm glad that I did so because I saved myself a tremendous amount of headaches in the meanwhile they continue to take taxes out of me until I was at my f .r.a otherwise I would have been stuck with one hell of a tax bill
2:14 A Firefighter with a pension and a wife who is a high earner who has paid all her SS contributions would see her SS benefit affected how? In your video it makes it sound like Susan was getting a spousal benefit from her husbands SS in ADDITION to her pension? Is that true? I want to know if my private sector spous’s SS benefit will be reduced because of MY pension??? As a pensioner I dont expect anything from my wife’s SS benefits. People do!?!?
No, your SS benefit is untouched. I'm a retired Firefighter who didn't pay into SS but have a city 'government' pension. I was married for 31 years and then divorced. She gets 50% of my pension and she also gets 100% of her Social Security. The SSA doesn't look at that 50% of my pension dollars she receives as "pension money" but simply as ordinary income and thus isn't subject to the GPO.
Hi Devin Thank you for you for RU-vid videos. My Question is the following Iam 61 years old , i will be getting my state pension in few month I also working for a non profit. When I file for SS would that affect my pension? Thanks
My wife recently passed at 64 three months before her 65th birthday and when she planned to claim SS benefits. I retired about 2 years prior to her passing and was receiving my pension benefits. I applied for and was awarded survivors benefit but the benefit was reduced to zero because (as it was explained to me) my pension benefit - 75%, was more than the awarded survivor benefit. That's when i was made aware of the GPO. (Government Pension Offset) The rule that says a government (federal, state or local) employee who earns a pension, and you DON'T contribute to SS... My issue is I've been contributing to SS while working at this same job for nearly 40 years. I never stopped contributing to SS and it was never offered to me as an option to stop. Am I missing something? I've since submitted a "reconsideration" application, but I've not heard from SS yet.
I am sorry for you loss. It seems that you also worked in a gmvt job and earned a non-covered pension. Consider that a non-covered pension is in lieu of SS for that portion of your total earnings. SS is based on total earnings, as the state hides part of yours, that is what GPO adjusts for. If you both had been covered by SS, as a survivor, you would be entitled to the larger of the two benefits, that is, there would have been a 100% deduction (The Dual Entitlement rule). If you were receiving the same, no increase. If she were $100 over yours, you would get the $100 extra. The one thing to look at is that as she passed below FRA, your survivor would be based on her entire PIA as she had not filed.
@@donellsullivan9849 -- In 35 states and in the Fed gmvt (if starting after 1984), you pay FICA and earn whatever pension is available (just like in a private company). Then you receive SS and the pension, no WEP. The "non-covered" is incorrect; by definitions non-covered means you are not paying FICA. It would be a covered pension.
Help! I keep getting conflicting information everywhere I look, including the SS Admin!! I have had a few appointments and waiting on another one with SSA, as (I am opening up my survival benefits for next year as money is tight now and need it) and some people @ the SSA do not understand my situation and I get different answers! I worked in a non pension environment for 34 years. I currently work with a municipality, no SS taken out, just pension $$, my balance as of now is roughly 12K. Must be fully vested for 10 years to get pension. I will not be fully vested as I will be retiring in 2-3 years. My plan was to take out my $$ with the retirement Co and pay the 20% taxes when I leave. My pension Co says no SS will not take it into consideration as I do not/will not "have" a pension each month. Its like I have a savings account and will get the money back. 2 appt's with SS mentioned nothing about a pension decreasing my monthly amount, perhaps because I paid into SS for over 30 years?? Can you or someone shed some light? I would greatly appreciate it! Thank You
If I followed your story, as there is no pension, WEP/GPO should not apply. humm, "retirement Co"? The 34 years should not be relevant. It would be good to determine if these years were of substantial earnings, just in case. Did the $12K include money paid by the employer? If so, this can trigger adjustments. A one time payment does not avoid WEP/GPO, but if it is your money (not theirs), then not an issue.
Hi Devin, I have 30 years of substantial earnings under the windfall elimination provision I also have a pension would it be better for my wife who does not have a pension but will get social security, to take my spousal benefit until she becomes full retirement age, or age 70 and then take hers, or can I not do that? My wife would be the higher earner.
In my case my wife has always been a stay at home mom. Just like the school teacher from texas my wife has put 0 dollars into SS. Unlike this teacher my wife will receive half my ss when I retire and all of it when I Die. So whats the difference?
I’ve been a school nurse 24 years but paid into SS before that career and during my career as a school nurse, while I worked other part-time jobs. Having a pension does not mean you paid 0 into SS.
@@richb1576 - 15 CHEAP states do not pay FICA, whereas the other 35 do (for the most part). WEP/GPO are only problems in CHEAP non FICA paying states. As for your query, the teacher had earning that FICA contributions were not made. The wife paid FICA on all of her earnings, albeit $0.
Hey Devin, My wife is a retired Texas teacher. I will start my Social Security next year at 70. Will her spousal benefit be calculated on my age 70 benefit or on the benefit I would have received at full retirement age plus the COLA?
Her spousal benefit will be 1/2 of your age 70 benefit. If you die first, her spousal benefit becomes 100% of your age 70 benefit. (Of course, both answers assume your wife’s personal SS benefit based on her earning record is less than her spousal benefit based on your earnings record.) since the spousal benefit does not increase through age 70 in the same way that the personal benefit does, your wife should not delay past age 67 in claiming her spousal benefits.
Eugene is correct, but also note that most teachers in TX do not pay FICA. This will cause WEP to be applied to her SS benefit and GPO applied to spousal and survivor benefits.
Devin: I am curious. Is the WEP being considered to be eliminated or changed to be more fairly computed now? Last I heard there was legislation in progress. Please respond. Thank you
The lack of funds in the Trust Fund should not be the issue. If you deserved the difference, they should pay it. But... Go look at how SS benefits are calculated. They are progressive, lowest earners get a 90% replacement, highest earners get 28% replacement. If you have a non-covered pension, your earnings were hidden from SS, which makes you look like a low earner, which you are not. And that is why SS applies WEP to adjust your benefit. This is why I doubt it will be eliminated, but politicians are not good at math, so there is a chance. On the bright side, you will get a 40% replacement rate where I would get a 32% replacement rate on additional earning from a second/additional job.
Only if you receive more than you are entitled to. I suggest calculating what you should get and if it does not match, ask questions. And don't spend it.
What if I got a government pension from my ex-husband 1800 per month, when I retire from my own social security, will my $1,000 from the social security be reduced to zero? I really appreciate if anybody can help me answer this question
Absolutely not. You will get 100% of your SS along with that $1,800 a month. Your ex on the other hand will get the full shaft of the GPO. In other words, you get his retirement but he doesn't get yours. Heads you win, tails he loses. I should know. Me and my ex made about the same income for 30 years yet she will come out ahead around $500,000 in retirement payments. FUN!
Gary, you seem to have a repeated comment. What's the whole story? Did you neglect to mention a non-covered pension to SS, get payments, and they want their money back? When I filed, I recall attempting to claim the lower income from no job. Some investments went my way, and I had to true up my SS account.
I suggest you look at how SS benefits are calculated. It is based on total earnings (35 years). Because SS is progressive and many gmvt workers earnings are hidden form SS, those workers appear to be lower earners. WEP adjust earning to be more comparable to the rest of us. BTW, you get a 40% replacement rate on the earning from the second/additional job. I would only get 32%. You have a better deal now.
Walter, I agree it is a Ponzi scheme. Note that the seniors today paid FICA to fund the older folks at the time. But I admit that we did have a lower rate for part of my working time. What you might jump on is how wrong it might be for we old folks today to force an increase in that tax on young folks so that we don't get a 20% cut because we did not pay enough -- I don't know anyone that was out there beating a drum to pay more back then. I think it is a very poorly designed system that is doomed to fail over and over. There is no growth in the system; recall when Bush II tried to make a change - pretty much everyone pummeled him. So I apologize to your kids. I'm OK with allowing the 20% cut, we old folks should share in the pain of fixing the system.
@@walterknox5953 - One receives all of their contributions in a 5 to 10 year period, double that if you include the employer part. Because of the system design there is no real growth (like a 401K or IRA).
