lol stanley cups first nhl game first all star game a real leader in team canada ect I can go on and on and he did it hurt and better with cancer want more? he was the best and still his
Fastest to 1000 points: 1. Wayne Gretzky 0-1000 points (424 games) 2. Wayne Gretzky 1001-2000 points (433 games) 3. Mario Lemieux 0-1000 points (513 games) 4. Mike Bossy 0-1000 games (656 games) also Wayne led the NHL in points during the 1980s with 1842 points over 768 GP Petr Stastny was 2nd with 1059 points in 749 GP
Lol ass kisses eh no when you score a goal after being knocked over by 2 checkers and ya flip your stick behind your head then you are the goat. He couldn't beat Patricia have all the fucking records you want Detroit the habs Colorado Dallas the rangers the oilers without gretzkey and new jersey. Who are they all the fucking cup winning teams of the 90s. I wanted him to be the best and as far as an individual game he was. (Hockey is a team sport) Messier won more cups and is 2nd place when your line mate is like rodman level and can win the cup without you twice and be the only captain to win 2 cups on 2 separate teams. Time to give the oilers some fn credit you waltzed in the nhl with a stacked fucking team bossy was better and did it on a fairly drafted team not here's the best players from the wha on one team. Gretzkey rules but he is number 2 always. Orr is in the league above the NHL waiting for other players to reach that level.
The 80's are not a particularly "hard" era of hockey. The early 70's and prior was. Gretz is clearly great...but his counting stats are very bloated. If you do "inflation adjustment" for the ease of goal scoring in the 80s he does still best some of today's greats like McDavid...but the margins are very slim. I don't think greatness transcends eras. What made Terry Sawchuk great is not what made Hasek/Luongo/ etc. great. Sawchuk was great on pure grit. Merely playing that position with gusto in the 50's made you a hall of famer...it was a test of Balls, not of skill (and I understand that advances in equipment have altered the skill ceiling, That doesn't make a great cavalryman a great fighter pilot) . Greatness is DEFINED by the era, it does not transcend it. Achilles never saw air strikes, or artillery. I mean fuck, he never saw gunpowder...or even steel! You CANNOT compare between era's, full stop. We can all admire a great like Wayne without deluding ourselves that he is an immortal hockey demigod. The best of his era, nothing more. GOAT's don't actually exist.
I grew up watching Wayne, He is why I fell in love with the game as a kid. He will Always be the G.O.A.T. ONE to me... The stack of Rookie cards that helped buy my house helped too lol. Thank you Wayne
My dad is the same age as Wayne and played in the same junior A tournament as him once. My dad’s team got knocked out early but they stayed to watch Gretzky’s team in the final, they lost 10-9. Gretzky scored all 9 goals
Gretzky could have easily gotten more than 150 extra goals during his career if he wasn’t so incredibly generous passing the puck instead of scoring himself
Ovi might break his career goals record, but no one will ever break 92 goals in a season, 200+ points in a season or 2800 points. The GOAT of hockey by a LONG SHOT!!
@OzWorldSports most that will NEVER be attained (92 goals and 200+ points in a season???- Can't see anyone coming near those numbers). Selanne had 85 one season, but the game has changed so much since then.
There are 2 factors that makes Wayne Gretzky stand out from the other legends and it has to do with Gretzkys size, and his genius vision on the ice to dodge injury for most of his career. This was a gift most other greats did not have like Bobby Orr, Mike Bossy, Mario Lemiuex, etc with their careers cut short, but Gretzky under normal circumstances should have been tossed around like a tennis ball in the rink, but his visual instinct kept him from major injuries. This in itself sets him apart and most other greats and many others just did not have that prowess. #2, I never thought it was fair to compare players that play an entire 80 games or close to 80 games and players that only play half or more than half a season. Most players including Gretzky slow down and get fatigued usually in the last half of the season and their PPG reduces a bit. i never thought it was fair to compare players that play only 2/3 a season like Lemieux and then get injured their body was not in full fatigue factor like Gretzky was and had Gretzky played the exact same amount of games as Lemieux during a season his PPG total would be significantly higher. The fatigue factor makes a huge difference on points total and Lemieux's career stats took advantage of that.
Point-wise he is uncontested but talent-wise, there is a challenger, Mario Lemieux, the only player in history that had the potential to challenge all of Gretzky's records.
Too soon to put Connor in that conversation. No doubt he has a skillset apart from anyone before, but time will tell his story. But there is an argument for Bobby and Mario, both of whom had careers shortened by injuries. You could even throw a guy like Bossy in there. How many more goals would he have scored had his back held up? Or if Stevie Y hadn't changed around his game to a 2 way guy, what would his point totals look like?
Amazing video !! Best Gretzky video I have ever seen. I would just add that another record that will never be broken is Gretzky’s playoff point total which is 382 points . Which dvd or blu ray out there would have the most clearest highlights of Gretzky playing ? So much of the footage that I see everywhere is not crisp
Thanks for watching; the best video on DVD about the career of Wayne Gretzky is called “Ultimate Gretzky” in my opinion; look it up and get a copy, good video.
As someone that grew up watching Gretzky this is the best video I have ever seen about the dude... Seriously, Gretzky was so mysterious - he knew where the puck was going to be at every moment of his shift....Look, watching his replays doesn't do it justice - it's almost like he was a time traveler, lol.... How can you always be at the right place at the right time? moreover when you're an average dude that is 6 foot 160-180 pounds at best, how do you do this?? it doesn't make any sense, lol.. Gretzky was never the biggest or even most skilled er "athletic" player of his era - it was like he knew where to be all of the time....And that is why I think Gretzky is a time traveler - I mean how can 170 pound man do all of what he did??? 216 points in a season???... Look, I'm convinced the man is a time traveler after growing up in the 80's as a kid and watching his career, lol.
Nobody will ever dominate hockey like Wayne Gretzki. I remember watching him break Gordie Howes goal record. Marty McSorley passed him the puck. What an incredible athlete!
He is the Goat out of all athletes. Nobody dominated their peers in their time like Gretzky. And if Gary Suter didn't break Wayne's back with a hit from behind in the 1989 canada cup it would have even been more crazy.
@@WinterWoolies- yes, was in 91. Gretzky was never the same player again after the 1991 Canada Cup. He went from 163 points in 1990/91 to 121 points in 1991/92 overnight after that Gary Suter hit, which led to his herniated disc (and subsequent back surgery).
to people who think gretzky couldnt play in todays game jagr played till 2017 well well past his prime and kept up. a prime gretzky would make mcdavid, crosby, oviechkin all a side note on the back page.
Yahoo a few years ago did a tournament for all sports Goats. Fans voted and in the end Wayne Gretzky was voted the the Goat of all Goats. As a hockey fan it did shock me to see Fans of other sports did see Gretzky in the same light as most hockey fans see him. He made the rest of the league players and look like little kids. No other sport has had a player that dominated their sport like Gretzky did with hockey.
Seriously?! NO COMPARISON!! More goals than anyone. More assists than anyone. More points than anyone. More assists than anyone has POINTS. And they changed the rules of the game because he was THAT good. I count myself fortunate to have been able to see him play in person.
@@jeffreykaufmann2867 Because the oilers would score multiple goals when coincidental penalties were called, instead of the usual 4 on 4, the league decided to just keep it 5 on 5. That change was made in 1985. The rule was changed back in the 92-93 season after Wayne questioned the rule so that's why it's now back to 4 on 4 when coincidental penalties are called.
I remember when getting into hockey a few years back, I decided to look at some of Wayne Gretzky's stats compared to other players in the league, and not only was he practically the best by a landslide, his stats were literally incomprehensible to me. He has more career assists than any other player has career points (goals and assists), the only player to score 200+ points in a season (he done it four times), has 19 100+ point seasons including his 200+ point seasons, (2nd is Mario Lemieux with 10 100+ point seasons). 13 of those seasons where he scored 100+ points were consecutive, meaning Gretzky has more consecutive 100+ point seasons than the next guy has 100+ seasons, consecutive or not. Gretzky could've gotten a 100+ point season off assists alone on 11 occasions (Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr were the only other people to even accomplish this feat once), etc. The most shocking fact out of everything I mentioned: Gretzky was undrafted, and he is the reason why I don't take sports drafts seriously anymore. He is the most dominant player of not only his sport, but to really any GOAT of any sport. 😅
Not even the least bit shocking... Wayne was ONLY undrafted because he was already playing pro in the WHA at 17... Kinda tough for NHL GMs to draft a kid who's already signed a pro contract... This wasn't anything new... Bobby Orr signed with the Bruins at 14... What this tells me is you're very much a Novice when it comes to Hockey History... PEACE OUT
If it matters, I'd take Mario over Gretzky - and that is no dis to Wayne at all - Lemieux was a flipping BEAST- in my opinion, he's the best hockey player I have ever seen...
@@OzWorldSportsHe could play defense and offense he could also fight and lead the league in scoring 2 times as a defenseman on 1 knee had a +/- of 124 in one season He was basically the ultimate player you could put him on any defensive paring or even put him on the forward group and he’d still be the best player on the ice Imo the list goes 1. Orr 2. Lemieux 3. Gretzky Gretzky just can’t compete with the other two’s natural talent they were just built different physically Gretzky was the smartest but nothing special in the physical department
@@edited1325 See my comment elsewhere regarding the confusing of talent with greatness. Gretzky may not have been the most talented player in history, but he was the greatest. Orr may have been the most talented player in history (I dont agree), but not the greatest. If you cant see the difference, maybe stay out of the conversation. Besides, never forget that Orr played in the most diluted skill-pool in league history thanks to expansion. Overnight players were soaring over 50 goals and 100 points. Gordie Howe did it when he was 40 years old and his totals had been declining before 1967. Finally, "he could also fight"?!? So the fuck what?!? Could he shoot pool? Could he do one-armed pushups? Could he wiggle his ears? Talk about an irrelevant argument. Dave Schultz and Tiger Williams are probably in your top ten.
alot of people think kurri or messier or tekkanen have the most points in a season with gretzky but no that honnor goes to bernie nicholls with 150(year before was 78pts) on gretzkys first year on the lowly kings. thats how good gretzky was.
l can say l got to see Wayne Gretzky play ice hockey l even got to see the game he tied Gordie Howr all time goals in San Jose, CA it was a very special moment in hockey history he even almost broke it later it would've been a "hat trick" but it is what it was. But no one ever speaks of the what l call the "Curse of the Great One" When Gretzky was playing for the L.A. Kings in the 1993 playoffs Stanley Cup Finals the Kings lost four games to three against the Canadiens after the final game 7 he gave his game stick to then Canadiens head coach Jacques Demers and the shook hands and ever since then no Canadiens nor any Canadian 🇨🇦 team has won a Stanley Cup championship. Am l the only one to have noticed this?? Wayne Gretzky was denied a fifth Cup "raising" in his career Just ponder this it continues to this day l mean a few Canadian 🇨🇦 teams have played post 1993 Cup championship series but never won it all. 2011 the Canucks were supposed to win the Cup but the Bruins did. Will the "Curse if the Great One" ever be broken??
@@OzWorldSports surprised you have to ask - for the record I put Gretzky #1, Orr 2, after that it gets a bit muddy but 3 and 4 would likely be Lemieux and McDavid - that last one might seem a little premature but holy frack he is good - all 🇨🇦
Mr, Hockey, Gordie Howe!!! He played in the NHL before it was watered down by expansion, leading scoring until Gretz but unlike Gretz, Howe was feared by the other players because he was tough as nails and would eff you up if you effed around. That is a complete hockey player and that is why Mr, Hockey is and always will be the GOAT.
Related to that is the arguments for Orr: 1. that in 5 Orrs vs 5 Gretzkys, Orr would win. Partly due to Orr's ability on both O and D (including his toughness on D). 2. Gretzky's longevity is to his credit, but he had assigned bodyguards. Natch' Orr's teammates didn't tolerate him being targeted, but he didn't have the same as Gretzky. Looking at ability minus longevity, the GOAT is less clear.
@@thepauldineen I don't really think the "team of" argument really holds any weight. I think a team of Cale Makars or prime Hedmans (2015-2021) would stomp a team of McDavids. A team of 11 Tom Bradys would likely get dominated by team of... just about any other NFL player. Doesn't diminish anything about his career. Still the GOAT.
@@boltinabottle6307 I think the "team of" argument is just a way of saying that player X is more well-rounded in skills than others. Gretzky's offensive numbers are so prodigious that defense and toughness tend to be undervalued. Your Brady example is valid. I think the difference is that Brady is optimized for the QB position (plus some other, uh, factors, his detractors might argue). Whereas, IMHO, Orr was strong in all three areas that I mentioned. Maybe Gretzky's hockey intelligence would serve him well in general, including on defense. I don't know, I grew up following Orr and didn't see much of Gretzky.
There is NO debate, in hockey, who the GOAT is. If anyone ever tries saying otherwise, just laugh at them. Wayne Gretzky is the GOAT in professional sports. Period.
Orr was worth more than a goal a game more than the opposition. If you could clone them and put 5 Bobby Orr's on the ice, at his peak, nobody else comes close imo
There should be a 20 second video. it’s wayne the great one just put up the point total of every player all time where he’s over 1000+ on them and 8 straight league mvps
I just came here to say he is the goat athlete of sports. There are arguments for best Basketball, football, soccer, baseball, racing, tennis etc, but not hockey. The Great One is the god of hockey.
There is no discussion, ever, about this. All discussions are about those who are top 2-5 or 2-10. But nr 1? Its 99, and its not even close to be up for discussion.
Take the stats of the best players in hockey history, and add 50%. And you get Wayne’s stats. That’s nuts. Nobody in any league was ever that far beyond his peers.
How come there are no lists done by the experts that have Bobby as #1 then? All of the expert's lists have Wayne as #1. No Bobby or Mario fan can ever explain to me how this could possibly be if Bobby and Mario are both so much better than Wayne.
@@stevebiagi8040 That's fine, but he did it against an extremely watered down league that just got more watered down and more watered down throughout his entire career. He spent his career playing against horrible teams which made it extremely easy for him. I'm not saying he wasn't good but he wasn't as great as people think when you look at the opposition he had to play against.
@@dannycarlow8204 Watered down how? 6 teams when he started, you had to be shit hot to make it to the show, yes some teams were more stacked than others, bit the Bruins weren't at the beginning of his career. League expansion still had high talent, & the Bruins played in the original 6's conference, all while the expansion teams got table scraps at the draft.
@@chizorama 6 teams when he started. 12 in his second year. 14 in his fifth year. 16 in his seventh year. 18 in his ninth year. How is that not watered down? All he knew was expansion. His Boston team was first in league scoring for seven consecutive years. In years 2-4, the East kicked the crap out of the West division which held the 6 new teams. Bad team after bad team kept joining. They were a disgrace but franchises have to start somewhere and Bobby and Espo were lucky to play at that time.
There's "The Great One" (Wayne Gretzky) and the "Magnificent One" (Mario Lemieux) - Wayne scored the most points, however, Mario was more naturally skilled. Wayne wasn't flashy, enthusiastic, good on breakaways or carried the heaviest slapshot. Mario had all of these qualities. His injuries slowed him down. But just because Wayne scored the most points with Paul Coffey, Mark Messier, Glenn Anderson and Jari Kurri all in their prime, Mario started with nothing.
Good points; but remember it’s not Wayne’s fault; they pretty much all came in the league together and grew up with one another from WHA to NHL; it’s not like they created a super team
The first time anyone scored 100 points in a season was 1968-69. Gordie Howe was #3 in the League in scoring with 103 points. He was 40 years old. They mention Gretzky's 62 points at 38 being an achievement. Gretzky was #36 in the League in scoring.
@@OzWorldSports just the goalies tom barrasso on grant fuhr theres so many reason why Lemieux is the best that ever played how many games he won with 5 goals carrying the pens to stanley cups with only jagr and francis
@@bobbyboucher-mt2kz When Gretzky won his cups, he had 6 other hall of famers on those teams. When Mario won his cups he had 8 other hall of famers on those teams. Not sure what you're talking about only having Jagr and Francis. Mario played with 5 (technically 6 but we won't count Crosby) of the all time leading scorers while Wayne only ever played with 2 of them. What is it you're getting at with the goalies? Barrasso was statistically better than Fuhr.
Gretzky at the moment can lay claim to the record of greatest goal scorer of all time, but that is in danger of being broken by Ovechkin. He was always only a one way player. The title of GOAT goes to Bobby Orr who twice won the scoring championship as a defencman and redefined the role of the modern defensive player.
Bobby did what Bobby did while 12 expansion teams came into the league during his career. Competition was extremely watered down and continued to get watered down throughout his career. He never went more than 3 seasons without at least 2 new teams coming in with 6 teams coming into the league in his second year.Wayne started his career on an expansion team that joined the league with 3 other teams. He then played 12 seasons until another team was added. Wayne is obviously the GOAT. Wayne wasn't a goal scorer so his record being broken really isn't a surprise. He was the greatest hockey player who just happened to score the most goals along the way. In every season that he led the league in goals or in any of his 50 goal seasons, he led the league in assists. He led the league in assists in 16 of his 20 seasons. That's what he's best known for, his assists. Ovi has never had 60 assists in a season let alone lead the league. His only goal since coming into the league is for him to personally score goals,. He's an extremely selfish player. Wayne always looked to help his teammates score because that's how a team wins and he had the ability to do that like no other.
Even as a goal scorer, Gretzky outshines Ovechkin, regardless of who winds up with the most. What is wrong with people who dont get the magnitude of scoring 50 goals in 39 games?!? An seven-goal-margin over anyone else, including some rather impressive names: Richard, Bossy, Lemieux, and Hull. Or dont get the magnitude of 92 goals in a season?!? A margin of sixteen over the previous record-holder. Only four times has that record of 76 been bested, and Gretzky did it twice. Or holding four of the top-ten season-goal-totals of all time with 92, 87, 73, and 71?! The only thing that prevented Gretzky from scoring 1,000 in his career is that he turned to assisting his team-mates in running up their goals totals - hence the absolutely staggering statistic that Gretzky has more assists than anyone else has points. Just shut up and think about these things for a while. And if you need more proof, consider multiple-goal games for all players. Guess who leads in all categories from two- to five-goal games? Ovechkin isnt even close at 256 to 207. Like his 99 jersey, Gretzky should be retired league-wide when it comes to GOAT, and all of the rest can fight over SGOAT.
@OzWorldSports A healthy Lemieux was better than Gretzky. An unhealthy Lemieux, which started early in his career, was still the best player in the league. He came back after 3 years of retirement and was still the best player in the league. Lemieux wasn t as well surrounded as Gretzky was. Lemieux was unable to play all games due to heavy health issues early in his carrer so his total points suffered but he still has an impressive points per game ratio.
@@OzWorldSportsLemieux was a magician with the puck even more than Gretzky. Gretzky managed to remain healthy most of his career, not Lemieux unfortunatly.
When it comes to GOAT comparisons i always believe it should be left to the men who played with or against the athlete , some people have an opinion having never seen the athlete play , so let's leave it to them shall we. Bobby Orr said the most talented player he has ever seen is Mario Lemieux, Wayne once said Mario could average 3 point per game no problem, and also that he is a better goal scorer then himself, Had Mario never been hurt he would have over 1000 goals .
Yeah, and if wishes were horses, beggars would fly. Who gives a flying fuck about what might have been? Greatest is about what was. End of story. Dont you think good health and longevity are a part of greatness? How about if Wally hadnt taught Wayne all that he did? But the fact is he did, and here we are.
The problem with Mario was the fact that he couldn't put up big numbers in seasons where he didn't get a ton of power plays whether he was healthy or not. In Mario and Wayne's four highest seasons going by points per game which are all four of Mario's 160+ point seasons and all four of Wayne's 200+ point seasons, the Pens had 604 more power plays than the Oilers in those four seasons. That means Mario had almost two more power plays per game than Wayne in these seasons. Mario's points were dictated by the number of pp he got throughout his whole career. It's actually kind of freaky how it all lines up when you really look at the numbers of his career. The Oilers didn't get a lot of pp so it didn't matter with Wayne, he was just scoring either way. Mario couldn't do that.
I’m not sure why this video focusses so much on the most “100 point seasons” when he has the most 160+ point seasons in history (NINE of them!) and is the only player to have a 200+ point season (and has FOUR of them)! 100 points seems like kind of an afterthought…
No they were more common. In general this video came across as poorly informed, and relied heavily on pointless filler. I am guessing you do not really follow hockey.
@@OzWorldSports - there were more 100 point seasons in the 80s than any other time (before or since). But no player (besides Gretzky) has ever had 100+ ASSISTS more than once, but Gretzky did it ELEVEN (consecutive) times! Now that’s the kind of impressive statistic that fans need to hear about. Or how about the top 7 assist seasons of all time? Or how about breaking his own assist record 4 times in 5 years? Or how about leading the NHL in goals 3 times while SIMULTANEOUSLY leading the NHL in points just with his assists alone each of those 3 times? That’s an insane stat that everyone should know about!
Orr is the goat. Gretzkey is the 2 Don cherry agreed so dpes dad and none of what i have seen woll convince me otherwise. Arguably its a hab not to be a dick and trust me i hate the habs. I grew up loving Gretzkey thanks for 93 lol. Ffs and 86. Gretzkey had 3 in a row 4 total. Orr had 2 not consecutive. Bossy had 4 in a row and would have had 5 if the oilers didnt walk in with at least 7 all time greats to start. Honestly its honri rechard and trust you dont hate the habs as much as me but he got 11 cups thats fucking insane. People say well the game wasnt the game and bullshit its always a puck and a stick and the cup is as hard to win as most gold medals. So as much as i hate him as as fucking awesome it is growing up watching the great one and seeing him shatter records. For me its Orr i had a lesson in hockey and watched many moments of Orr. You were not beating him in individual skill ya maybe Gretzkey but hockey sense and iq he was in another league. Gretzkey is the best hockey player ever Orr is a god who didnt retire for stupid number reasons. He tried twice to play for Chicago with a destroyed knee thats fucking dedication and unfortunately the great one lacked that. Cause what the fuck wayne. 12 years old obsessed my team just won and i cant wait oh right sorry kid were gonna take hull from ya and by the way ya the great one isnt gonna play anymore. I will always be sour about Patricia but respect you did kick ass but ya bailed on me Orr would have played till he died if he could have. To me dedication and the cup mean a fuck more than fancy selfish poont shit.
@@OzWorldSports Changed the way the game is played. Won the points total as a d man Had he remained healthy he’d have shattered even more records Far more complete player. Could check and fight (one of the best fighters in the league) BTW Lemieux is second best. WG is third.
What do you want to compare 1st 9 seasons cause of Orr’s injuries ? Wayne won the scoring title 7 out of 9 not just winning but destroying the rest of the league 79/80 he tied with Dionne but lost on tie breaker Wayne only had 51 goals He actually won 7 out of his first 8 seasons Orr is 2 or 3 but Wayne is the GOAT
@@rethink62 adjusted for avg league goals per game Howe and others had seasons very comparable to the best seasons of WG. Plus they fought and hit. Orr’s season stats as a d man have never been touched by anyone. Easily the best and Lemieux’s numbers would be right up there with WG adjusted for league averages and his injury history. Special mention of Howe and Crosby- especially crosby in the 50-65 games prior to his first concussion- when he may have been the best firers ever.
@@gordtulk OK but what I’m saying is when Gretzky won the scoring titles from 81//82 to 86/87 the closet 2nd place player was 64 points behind ) Bossy 81/82 ) every other 2nd place finisher was over 70 behind Did anybody dominate their era like that ?
Wayne is, statistically, far and away the GOAT. But I think Mark Messier also has a case. Third all-time in points, won six rings including two without Gretz (who never won it without Mess), was a more complete physical player, and earned a well deserved reputation for leadership and coming through in pressure situations. What's amazing is that the Oilers didn't win a bunch more Cups when both were on the roster. Just goes to show how hard it is to win
Not quite. As captains of their teams, Messier took his team to the playoffs in only 8 of 16 years and went 15-6 in his 21 playoff series and won two cups. Wayne took his team to the playoffs in 10 of 12 years and went 23-6 in his 29 playoff series as captain with 4 cups. Mark's playoff ppg is 1.250. The problem is what you say about coming through in pressure situations. His points per game in the first three rounds is great at 1.333 in 198 games but then for some reason plummets to .815 in his 38 cup finals games. That's over half a point per game when it matters most. Wayne's first three rounds are 1.858ppg in 177 games, but only drops to 1.709 ppg in his 31 cup finals games. Crosby also struggles like Mess in the finals. Messier always had a safety net in his cup wins, he never had to be the best player in his wins and he wasn't. Wayne had to be the biggest factor for his team or they couldn't win. In Wayne's two finals losses, he led his team in both playoff scoring and finals scoring. If Mess was so great, why didn't he strap the team on his back in the Oilers loss to the Isles in '83 when Wayne couldn't. Wayne knew then and there that if they were going to win cups, it would be up to him. Messier was the king of riding coattails. He did it in Edmonton and New York. He didn't need to be great for his cups, Wayne did. Wayne and Mark started their careers in the same year. In their first two years Mark had 99 points while Wayne had 301. Mark wasn't keeping up his end of the bargain, that's why they didn't win more.
Gretzky +520 for his career. Orr +582 for his career. Hands down the 2 best to play the game. Gretzky had protectors his whole career, Orr would drop the gloves and took some severe hits (Orr-Pat Quinn). Can’t say whose better really, but both changed the game. Orr showing offense started from the defensive zone and Gretzky setting up shop down low in the offensive zone. Both had incredible vision and the ability to make opponents look foolish. I guess I’ll end it with this: when Gretzky wins a Norris trophy, I’ll officially call him the G.O.A.T 😊.
Robinson was +722 so I'll give hime a shout-out. Orr only won the Norris because there is a trophy only defensemen can win. There are no trophies for best center or best forward. My guess is Wayne probably would have won a few and Bobby never would have won one. I guess Wayne will have to make due with nine league MVPs and 10 scoring titles. At least there's trophies for those.
Never liked Gretzky. The Officials called a lot of penalties to protect him. I’d take Mark Messier and Bobby Orr over him any day of the week. If someone landed a solid check on Gretzky, you already know the refs arm is going up.
@@OzWorldSports The single most important thing Wayne Gretzky did for the entire game of hockey was be the first to blend the Euro Style into the NHL Style without losing any of the toughnes or the hitting of NA Hockey. Wayne was an on-ice Coach and Slats let him reign freely. Wayne is the man who created the hybrid Style that took us right up to 2009 when another massive evolution( Suppressed Conspiracy Deal) began that brought us todays current offensive explosion across the entire NHL.
There is no Lebron and Jordan debate. Jouralist talk about because they need something to talk about. but in Bars across America I've never seen any Lebron guys. There's Karem guys, Magic guys, Bird guys, Kobe guys and I even meet a Wilt guy. But there all pale in numbers to Jordan. But Lebron guys are leprechauns. You hear about other people who have swear they saw one but you never actually see them.
@OzWorldSports I just think lemieux was most skilled of all time. The way he saw the ice. They way he made it look like he wasn't even trying. He made it look easy. Not trying to take anything away from Gretzky, he was incredible. I just think Lemieux had more natural hockey talent.
There's certainly a fair amount of people who will say "Mario was better". Mario put up similar ppg with worse teammates, and they'll argue that if Mario hadn't been so injury plagued (including cancer) he'd have points totals similar to Gretzky's. Was Mario's skill at his peak extremely close to Gretzky's at his peak? Yes. But "The Greatest" is also about results and domination. If Mario had played for 20 years there absolutely could be more of a Ronaldo vs Messi situation in hockey as well. But he didn't. Gretzky is the GOAT. edit: Also if the question is "who is the *best* hockey player ever" then we can also hypothesize about what kind of points McDavid would be putting up if he was playing against 80s players. The level of competition today is inarguably much higher. Same with Orr vs Lidström, Orr was *way* more dominant in his era, but *best*?
Agreed on almost everything I just don’t agree with what McDavid would do in the 80’s players are better conditioned now better skates , sticks , ice etc I think you just go by how they dominated when they played Just me
@@OzWorldSports He's a ball pusher, a penalty kicker, has no skills, he sells very well. Messi, Maradona, Cruyff, Van Basten, Best, Ronaldinho, Zidane are much better than that vanity example.
He is not some GOAT MARIO LEMIEUX IS THE GREATEST ISHOCKEY PLAYER IN THE HISTORY NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT END OF THE STORY KING OF KINGS GOD OF GODS MARIO LEMIEUX
Gretzky for sure had the greatest career in NHL history, no doubt about that, but skill wise Lemieux and Orr were better than him. Gretz had the luck to cherry pick where to start his career coming from the WHA, if he entered the draft the Colorado Rockies held the #1 pick (later became the NJ Devils) and I’m doubting that he would put numbers like he did in the Oilers. After he left the Oilers his PPG production dropped to 1.70, he didn’t score over 50 goals in his last 10 seasons, he never won the cup after he left.
You obviously have no idea how he became an Oiler. He didn't cherry pick his team. The WHA team he signed with sold him after 8 games because the owner needed money and the team folded 17 games later.(25 games into the season) Pocklington bought Gretzky because he thought that would help get the Oilers accepted into the NHL. Gretzky picked to play with the Racers, not the Oilers. Wayne signed a 4-7 year personal services contract with the owner of the Racers. He had no idea he'd be in Edmonton less than 2 months after signing a multi-year contract somewhere else.
@@dannycarlow8204nice try. 😂😂😂 He signed a 10 year contract with the owner of the Oilers and played for the Oilers in the WHA, because of the expansion of the NHL he stayed with the Oilers in their first NHL season and avoided the draft. He wasn’t prior allowed in the NHL because of his age, with the expansion the NHL changed the rules from 20 years old to 18 and so he could play in the NHL, and he could cherry pick where to start.
@@tomislavgrozdanic He signed the contract with Nelson Skalbania before his contract with Pocklington. Why on Earth at that time would Wayne choose the Oilers 8 games into a season? He's great, but he can't tell the future. Pocklington bought Wayne to get into the league, of course he's going to stay with his team if they moved to the NHL. Just as he would have stayed with the Racers if they stayed viable and were accepted into the NHL. Wouldn't you stay with your team if they moved to a better league? Pocklington was using Wayne for the exact same reason Skalbania was using him, unfortunately, he went bankrupt and Pocklington benefited from it. It wasn't all a ploy to stay out of the draft. It is funny how you say his point production dropped to 1.70 after leaving the Oilers. You know you're the greatest when that's considered a drop.
@@dannycarlow8204 Gretzky PPG: Oilers 2.40 Kings 1.70 STL 1.17 NYR 1.06 From the 1984/85 until the 1996/97 season, when Lemieux and Gretzky played at the same time, Gretzky’s PPG was 1.90, Lemieux 2.05. He never scored over 50 goals after 1989, his point production after he turned 35+ 1.12. Lemieux had 1.35 PPG in his 35+ seasons, if Lemieux retired with 38 like Gretzky his PPG woluld be 1.925, Gretzky’s is 1.921. He finished at 1.89 I’m talking facts.
@@tomislavgrozdanic The real fact is that players don't hold their ppg over longer spans of time. The biggest fact is that you had to use the word "if" as all Lemieux fans have to. Always if, if this, if that, then Mario is better. Imagine "if" Wayne retired after 12 years, would we assume that "if" he would have played another 8 years, he would hold his 2.31 ppg for another 8 years? Of course not, that's not how it works. Another fact is that Mario always just fell short of anything Wayne did. You can use all the mental gymnastics you want, nothing will ever change that fact. Mario never even outright led the league in assists once. At least he can cling to that most shorthanded goals in a season record.
