This episode was recorded on 16th November 2023. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) or his second channel The Soak (youtube.com/@TheSoak ) where he does movie, TV & anime breakdowns! The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-role-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265
I don't know him, but he came across as not knowing what he's talking about. He brought up a couple of things I feel is WAY out there, but he had no reasons or arguments for it. Like saying Kiriko requiring LOS to tp would gut her and need a compensation. He just spits that out, but a few minutes later he also says there is no counterplay to kunai headshots. You can't both say Kiriko needs compensations for a nerf and say there is no counterplay to her main weapon. There are a few of these. Again, I don't know Daniel at all. But he came across as a support main that doesn't know much else.
@@nivyan He's been a Top 500 support for several years since OW1 lol Not sure why he can't say both - it would most certainly gut her current playstyle as a backline assassin
@@BrolympicBWL I'm definitely not contesting his knowledge or skills. I'm contesting his opinions. The reason he can't say both, to me, is because changing los for TP doesn't change her numbers at all, but he himself admits her numbers are too high - but still wants a compensation if los is changed. According to his logic, if we make the los change, Kiriko should be compensated, effectively resulting in her one-shotting everyone. There's *obviously* a ton of different ways to change her - but that's besides the point. My own opinion on this is irrelevant - whether you agree that what he said is irrational or not doesn't matter. What matters is that he brought up points that he didn't argue for and sometimes were mutually exclusive. Without proper arguments, that comes off as ignorant or thinking with his feelings - which are both absolutely useless in any actual discussion. And hey, there is a very good chance that a lot of what he said had implications that I'm not aware of - these are top players, I'm certain there are elements they take for granted that we don't know about. Perhaps some of that was lost in translation, but that doesn't change the fact he left a weird impression on me.
You're forgetting that despite how annoying she can be Kiriko is one of the lowest winrate heroes in the game. Being frustrating doesn't mean she's actually OP. Something is OP when it wins games more than other things so she would absolutely need compensation buffs. She actually needs buffs right now to bring winrates in line with other characters but that simply will not happen because of the prevailing belief in the community that she's OP. It reminds me a bit of Hanzo, he's my personal worst character to play against and I absolutely hate him, but he's not OP. He doesn't have a winrate greater than 50%. Being overpowered is not the same as being annoying or frustrating.@@nivyan
I'm actually really glad Yeatle brought up Sojourn amidst the "Snipers are a problem" element, because at the Design level? She is what's known as a "Scope" archetype; a Hero capable of rapidly adjusting their perspective while preventing the enemy from responding. Sojourn can activate her entire kit almost as fast as Reinhardt can get one hammer swing across the screen. To provide a hero who has that level of responsiveness (regardless of skill input) such a high damage output effect with it's own damage amp mechanic? Really wish they would have listened to Spilo and co. back in beta/alpha. Yet another example of Design Escalation that makes me terrified of what is going to happen with the next DPS. Venture having a Prolonged Invulnerability that can't be targeted will mean there's now a full comp with back-to-back Invulnerability rotation (Kiri, Bap, and/or Lifeweaver + Zarya + Mei). Regardless of viability, that is going to be frustrating as fuck. If they decide Venture's Invul. also has some other AoE mechanic that can affect enemies? Blech. Really good episode with a lot of articulated points!
I would honestly be annoyed about having so many heroes with constant deployables to worry about. We already have Pylon + Torb turret which are absolute tanks in health and then we have 3 Sym turrets + Hog trap + Bob if you count him as a deployable. Having Immort/Negate come out every 8-10 seconds would be even more annoying than it already is.
The range ain't the same as it was in season 1 & 2 when it was actually insane. There are problematic supports like Illari but yo come on she has a 47% winrate at all the ranks and sees barely any play in late OWL or World Cup. She ain't op and everyone is focusing on the wrong stuff. Not to mention her tp enables high mobility dive comps that desperately need more rep amid the slew of boring spam comps
I'd like to see a concept like "deferred damage" in the game. In the context of Immortality Field, it could convert all the damage you take to a DOT that doesn't tick down while in the field. So someone in the field won't die (preserving the core concept of the ability), but as soon as it ends, they are still experiencing an emergency unless healed out of it.
Displaying negative health without damage numbers directly overhead would lead to confusion plus if you had a situation someone was negative 1 health and died it would lead to frustration that they could be saved but werent.
I main Ana, Kiriko and Zen and, weirdly enough, my two favourite balance patches involved nerfs to two of these characters. I legitimately think the discord orb nerf is the best balance change so far, because it fixed a fundamental issue with his play style. Discord botting in the backline was never fun, and what they buffed to balance things out actually made Zen's most engaging play style even better: which is finding cheeky angles. Secondly there was the Kiriko healing and ultcharge nerf in the beginning. A pretty huge nerf, yet it changed her from a heal bot to an off-angler over night. Again: way more fun and engaging. It leads me to believe that passive value and hard counters are indeed the problem.
It really hurts that Blizzard can't just leverage these shows to help balance their game. There is so much value in listening to these conversations and I really think they need to learn what actually makes their game fun.
As a support main, when I saw the patch I told my friend that basically nothing changed. They addressed the wrong parts of why support is strong (relative to DPS/TANK). He was convinced illari was fucked on based on the nerf and I told him.. No, "PEOPLE" who aren't as precise with their aim got nerfed. That's an artificial way to address the hero and winrates w/ said hero.
Honestly, I think each role is pretty well balanced -against their role. The problem is that too many support abilities don't require good decision making. Antinade and sleep are problematic for tanks solely because the Ana doesn't need to hold them against flankers. Why? Because flankers are unpopular due to risk/effort/reward values being out of whack. It costs a Bap zero thought about when to use a Lamp, Illari only needs to take very basic precautions on where she puts pylon for eternal value, Ana doesn't have to hold nade or sleep in poke/deathball situations, etc. etc. Perhaps Spilo has the right idea that all tanks need ability mitigation, but supports also need risk for the easy value. Maybe reduce nade's AoE to 2m, make it an actual skill shot instead of a "I throw it in an area slightly smaller than EMP and prevent all healing." Maybe Illari pylon needs a feedback effect so she takes damage when it's destroyed. Maybe Lamp needs to be a damage reduction window instead of a bubble so it can be flanked. HP, as Blizzard has said, is the biggest mover of winrates, so I hate when it's the tool they keep reaching for. As far as counterplay goes, the reason supports feel best to play is because there's few hard counters against supports. Conversely, tanks feel terrible because too many of them just get shut down by swaps. Blizzard should focus on making bad tanks feel better to play. Lastly, 5v5 isn't the problem. The problem is that the game is only two years into 5v5 development. They only decided on the switch in 2021. It's still in beta. It'll be another year in development before it's reasonably settled and old heroes with outdated kits get reworked fully.
The right ana change seems so obvious to me, reduce the anti duration to 2s or even 1.5 and bring the cd back to 10. Illari should be 70 body shots and then either make the pylon duration based or increase the size so it juts out more often and is able to be shot. Kiri is fine susu is such a long cd that theres plenty of counter play. Dps just needs a passive buff
Blizzard should try making anti-nade be a max health debuff. So if you're a tank for example, your max health might be 600 HP. You take damage and now you're at 375 HP, then get hit with the enemy Ana nade. Now your max health would be locked at 375, so any more damage you take can still be healed, but only up to 375 until the effect wears off. So it would still be a very strong support status effect ability, but not an auto death sentence.
Some ideas I would like tested on experimental. Mercy: Test damage boost on a resource meter. Maybe same concept as moira so that it auto refills over set time or increase fills with healing? Not sure if it would make a difference but at least it gives some added skill and devs can tweak numbers on up time of damage boost vs heal? Kiriko: On cleanse test if she just did one of the two current effects (either makes invulnerable or it cleanses) or test a change where she has to choose between them. Either she uses the cleanse or she uses the invulnerable. Alternatively they could just test adding a base percentage damage reduction rather than full invulnerability. Also change damage amount or speed of throwing again to mitigate some of the instant damage potential she has and add some falloff to damage amount at range? Probably easier to lower the overall damage. Tanks: Would like to see more mobility options built into their OW2 kits. Like test giving Hog some mobility when he uses his take a breather. Test Reinheart with 2x charges instead of his 2 firestrikes. Like swap them around so that he can get around the map easier / he can go in and go out of fights. Slow moving tanks just feel like cc and damage sponges in OW2. That is why orisa can have a lot of success at least in lower ranks as she provides mobility and damage mitigation along with her offense potential. All tanks need to be able to close the gap and chase down target not stand around getting shot at which is even worse for tanks that dont have shields or damage mitigation such as hog...
Oh and for characters like Bastion which is high potential burst damage they should test having high damage for shorter periods more frequently rather than currently where there is a long up and down time. It will allow the character to be more dynamic as well as give more counterplay opportunities. Worth a test in the experimental card.
Role que should be tank, damage, support, 2 flex, all roles. So you're guaranteed a tank and support, won't get shit on for choosing a damage hero, because you have to, and the two flex options can be two tanks, tank dps, tank support, 2 supports, two dps, support dps. They can freely change between all roles. Basically it combines role que with open que.
I think what the devs should do is use the fact that the evil Warlock called Bobby finally had a house dropped on him as a way to change their philosophy for the game and a bit of hope they even monetize the game and how they structure what they're trying to do every 2 months. Bobby caused a lot of harm, at least he can be useful in this way. Here is what I would suggest (everyone is a mechanic, so forgive me). Restructure priorities. 1. Rebalance game for skill vs reward hero design. The game is suffering for it right now and it just doesn't feel right this other approach that we've adopted since Brig was released. Casuals will still be happy if match making can place them against players of similar skill/level of experience. They can play noob booster characters against noobs and feel good about the memey experience. Skilled players should always feel incentive to switch off of easy characters and into hard ones when they start losing, not the other way around. I don't ever want to see Bastian in the world cup again, that was embarrassing. 2. Have a more clear cut definition of what roles are and what they should do and not do. If a character doesn't quite fit the role, make sure they have significant tradeoffs to compensate (zen is balanced well in this regard, Kuriko is not) or move them to another role (Mei is a tank and not a dps, that's why it's hard to balance her and part of why she makes the game play around her). For Mei, once you do previous priorities, it will be quite evident that this is the problem. 3. Put boundaries on how much impact an ability can have. Immortality maybe should never be part of an ability, only an ult. Also put skill walls on high value abilities that can trade up in value against ults. Suzu cleansing a shatter is a poor interaction. 4. This is a personal preference but, I wish that the team would consider going back 6 v 6. I don't see that the issues that existed in 6 v 6 balancing were really addressed by going 5 v 5. I think the issues were always due to the vision for Overwatch not being one that was conducive to the game and that the issues were never really tackled due to that. Too much sustain with the combined interaction of tank and support was the major issue. Area wide heals was a problem and probably doesn't need to be in the game for primary was of healing. Shields should be limited. Perhaps, if you go 6 v 6 and really have an issue figuring out out, you could split into off and main tank roles. Anyways, this is a chance to change everything and make a fresh start, why not embrace it and really charge the community up?
I haven't quite finished the podcast yet but I want to write down my thoughts about the point re: "niche" characters and whether we should change them or not. In general I agree that it's okay, maybe even good to have characters that have strong appeal to some and none to others. I agree that they shouldn't be "meta" as SVB put it, in that they should be playable but not dominant. However, in 5v5 role lock with 1 tank, the discussion changes regarding heroes in the tank role in my opinion. In the scenario where your team has a Moira one trick, you always have a second healer that can pick up the slack on Moira's lack of utility. On DPS, if you have a Junkrat one trick your other DPS can go a hitscan and cover the weakness that Junkrat has. This simply isn't true for the tank role anymore, so when Roadhog has an issue like this it is not okay to leave it. He has to be viable, he has to be strong enough to compete by himself. Tanks have to be generalized and homogenized to some degree in this format. Otherwise you have an INCREDIBLY frustrating game where BOTH teams are playing around a singular player rather than just the one role buddy covering for them.
They should give Illaris pylon a duration of like 10sec. and change it -> if its destroyed, the cd has its full duration, but if u can destroy it urself first, then its like 5sec. less, somethjing like that would be a good form of skillexpression...
For Roadhog, why not keep him as a displacement/one-shot char, but reduce his hook range from 20m to 12-15m. It would keep him dangerous (low mobility, big threat -> can take space), but heavily reduce the amount of "WTF hooked across the map" moments from his enemies. His primary fire has better long-range viability so I think this would fit his niche. Maybe also introduce incremental movement slow during vape similar to LW charging petal.
People bitching about hook dont need to have any input on what happens to hook. If you're getting hooked constantly then maybe it's a skill issue and you should position better/use headphones so you can hear his giant fatass at all times. Or maybe start 1 tricking him for awhile to see how he is and then you'll know how to avoid getting hooked all the time
One point I think you guys missed the mark on was it's ok if characters don't get seen in higher play in regards to tanks. This is because there were a huge number of tanks that specialized in off tanking in overwatch 1. If you don't make some of those tanks viable it will see less players in that role. Moira not being optimal is less of an issue since there is a second support. There is no other tank, so this issue isn't a fair comparison, Moira vs. Hog.
30:32 or we just make it 6v6 again, so you can play those heroes who suffer from Nade with like Zarya, Dva, Reinhardt… together, so they can protect eachother
I don't understand the problem with +-25 HP changes, especially on heroes with large hitboxes. There's a lot of survivability that comes with being small and unless Blizzard wants to standardize the size of their character models, it's much simpler to give HP buffs. Kiriko vs Zen before the recent support patch for example; both characters had 200 HP but while Zen is undeniably a glass cannon, Kiriko gets 2 cooldowns that buff her survivability as well as one of the smallest hitboxes in the game. TLDR characters like Cass, Zen, and LW with large character models should have more HP to compensate. I'd even go as far to say that Kiriko, with her tiny character model, insane dueling potential, and two survivability cooldowns on a support, should have 175 HP
1:32:20 i disagree when spilo says people won’t play hog just because he had a new ability,people will play whatever feels good at the time hence why orisa is extremely boring to play but everyone plays her
I think that if they are gonna keep role passives then they need to make ones that are fair or actually good for tank and dps. The tank one isn’t even a passive really. That should be something that’s just a given as game physics. Or just remove all the passives but keep the tank one. Why should a tank who is way bigger than dps to be booped as far as the other roles. Rein being booped the same distance as like a tracer is stupid. At the same time though I don’t think that tank role passive should apply to balls boop. Balls boop should be the best boop because of physics and it would make ball way better anyways. Probably a hot take but tbh it makes sense. Idk what a new passive for tanks should be tbh. Maybe like a tank gets an elim and gets like 50 health or overhealth but that’s getting a little crazy. Maybe a passive where they build ult faster or build ult from when getting CCd to punish constant CC usage on tanks.
Make Baps immo field his ult. Increase the health of the lamp and duration. Swap window to an active ability with a fair cooldown. Make it smaller, less duration, and reduce the damage multiplier by an appropriate amount. Kiri can no longer teleport through walls, but teleporting to an ally heals a small burst amount on arrival. Ana nade gives 50%- 75% reduced healing for the duration. So basically the inverse of throwing it on Ally’s which should be intuitive. Bring the cooldown back to 10 seconds. Lower duration on tanks by 1 second. Illari must charge her pylon with her primary heal intermittently. She must be forced to engage with her pylon more often and make it a more active ability in that sense to offset the passive value it gets. Healing pylon runs out of “juice” and will not omit any more heals until recharged. 2-3 cycles of her primary heal to fully charge pylon perhaps? Spitballing ideas here, not like devs are reading lmao.
Best discussion yet. All five objectively assessing the balance of the game and willing to listen to the others options. It makes you wish these guys were in charge of balance. :) Fortunately, I'm not in charge of balance. I have an extreme opinion that in the future, let's say if OW3 ever was created, a major change should be the removal of "roles". Tank, DPS, Support. Get rid of em. They exist because they're based off of RPG classes going back to D&D in the 70's. It turns out, the idea wasn't a great one. Mostly because, people don't want to "heal". People don't want to be "pigeonholed". Even in D&D, they have made it so every character can "heal". Instead of "roles", there should just be unique characters. Make healing something everyone has, get rid of the concept of someone needing to "create space". Ever see a bronze Reinhart hold up his shield the entire game, thinking he's "tanking" a boss in WOW? And then listen to someone try to explain that's not how you "tank" in OW. Blizzard's last two characters are almost going in my suggested direction. Illari doesn't actively heal per say. She places a pylon and then does more damage than DPS. Mauga doesn't actively tank per say, he just blasts everything to oblivion with dual vampiric chain-guns. Maybe it's closer than I think.
Make the pylon weaken healing over time. Make her healing charge it back up. Make torbs turret overheat, have the hammer cool it off. Get rid of one of symmetras turrets. Or lower the slow/ damage. Buff gengi.😅
I dont really like fenner's takes. He often says he doesn't have much interaction or counterplay with heavy sustain like mei wall, sig or bastion but the reason they are picked is because the meta is defined by avoiding support. You should not nerf the elements of the game that do not interact with sups, you should make it viable to pressure and trade cooldowns with them again.
Not the A-Team, but definitely got some top contenders for the B-Team here! Sam is great (already an A-Team member). Yeatle is awesome. Just learned about Spilo, but he's been good so far. No idea who Dan is.
I would like to see if suzu only allowing kiriko to be invulnerable would a good balance. She can still use it on herself for emergencies or for safe TPs but can’t bail out everyone with it.
I think the problem is honestly low skill players. They need heroes that people can pick up easy and climb with and support has been that gift to mediocre players forever.
I wish I had a miniature Spilo to carry around in my pocket to guide my life decisions lol He is so articulate and presents his arguments so clearly. A great asset for the ow community. Another great podcast SVB 👍
I think they're focusing on short-term issues rather than looking at the big picture. Most of their arguments are on specific heroes/abilities rather than core problems with the game that have a much wider impact. Some of their suggestions like Zen's orb CD's make sense but every podcast is about this hero and that hero. Blizzard is just playing musical chairs with hero balance but none of them address any of the real issues with the game's design.
@@rioriorio17 Is Spilo the only one in the podcast? All I hear for 2 and a half hours is they need to change 'this ability' and they need to rework 'that hero'. The only real "BIG MISTAKE" here is Overwatch 2. These discussions are just a big ball of nothing because Overwatch 2 is a big ball of nothing, just like OWL.
@@AetherMoosehonestly curious as to what it is you disagree with, he’s one of the most agreeable people in the community and I’ve rarely heard anyone have disagreements with him
@@whaloobi disagree with his thoughts on hogs rework not being a real rework. I think the changes do fundamentally change the way a roadhog player interacts in the frontline, & i also think hog feels a lot better to play. (I wasnt watching the screen so someone else might have said this) but I also disagree with the idea every hero needs to be viable at all times. I think its good for some heroes to be more niche or easy than others. I think its okay some heroes to be much more simple than others as long as the risk/reward is balanced out properly.
Man, everything Spilo says is just so articulate and it just makes sense. The guy never goes out of line on his takes, sure there are some that I disagree with but never to the point where it becomes like Salt's opinions 😂.
Lol Salt is a bad example, he lives the life of an internet troll and his takes are always bs. Probably on purpose to keep people talking about him. Good strat tbf but makes his OW opinions irrelevant
I think these are the best types of podcasts having a main of each role then a 4th "flex" person it allows more of a discussion and each role can better see the struggles of the other.
Not sure if he would be great at that. He’s really good at analyzing afterwards, but he’s not necessarily a caster per say. He’s still the greatest goat of all time
Think we can all agree that when possible spilo needs to be in every single debate, bro is never a disappointment. Also i just wish for 1 sniper main to come on the cast be they kenzo or arrge or another really good sniper main, i just want to see some defense and counter arguments against all this one shot hate as a fellow widow/hanzo main that really enjoys not having to shoot 1000 bullets into someone to kill them
it's crazy how all of overwatch competitive / balance problems can be found and solved on a single podcast. I really hope they listen to these and take real action because every patch that comes out misses the mark by a lot and it ends up being disappointing. overwatch has so much potential for being one of the goats but things like this is holding the game back by so much.
I love how the names always get messed up, it starts off messed up, and anytime someone leaves or changed their view it gets ruined. Please keep this happening it’s a feature at this point not a problem
Really good lineup here. I also really loved that it felt like all of the cast in their own ways really had a more holistic approach. I get so tired about hearing about the problem with this, the nerf that, the delete this character. I just want to know how to make everything feel good, and it's nice to hear solutions that are positive rather than negative is so nice.
I'm so sick of being stuck in this loop of... Knowing what the problems are > talking about the problems > devs refusing to address the core issues and tweak a few numbers > us complaining that the problems are still there. It has been YEARS! We've gone 5v5 for this, we dropped PvE for this, they have all the time in the world, and they drop the ball every damn time.Maui and the "reworked" Roadhog are proof that they have no clue what the problems are or how to solve any of them. If I could give one message to the devs: Stfu until you figure out how one anti-nade ability doesn't dumpster a whole role into the garbage can.
Listened to this over on the pod side & loved the whole conversation. Everyone brings interesting perspectives & I love the back & forth idea bouncing. Would really love if we could get Alec Dawson & Gavin Winter on here to give arguments from the actual dev team side of things. The only point that I couldn’t disagree with more thoroughly is the return to open queue suggestion. I prefer 5v5 but I wouldn’t be against going back to 6v6. I think both bring a lot of pros & cons, while both need significantly more time to actually get into the full balancing act. I don’t think 6v6 got enough time & I don’t think 5v5 has got enough time. Don’t mind either. But open queue? I will absolutely riot if I have to return to that horrid design. As the person who always had to flex to what I probably didn’t want to play in that moment, I will be just as against it & obstinate as my teammates used to be about switching. Everybody else always got to play what they wanted, while I was always resigned into “okay I guess I’ll play this.” & I f**king refuse with my entire being to go back to playing like that. I think I got to play damage less than 25 times between 2017 & 2020. Not because I didn’t want to, but because if I did it would be a 5 Damage, 1 tank team comp. I got to Diamond hard flexing so it’s not like I was horrendous at it, I just hated being the whipping boy every match. I will legitimately have to stop playing if the game returned to that format. There are almost zero ways I quit playing Overwatch within the next couple years, even if we returned to zero content. But going back to open queue? I would almost certainly quit at this point after enjoying the game the most that I have since launch in the role queue era. Not trying to be whiny but there isn’t a fundamental change I would be more against than open queue.
Cooldowns are less effective but they come up faster. See this is exactly what mercy players wanted for mercy. Mercy players wanted to keep the fun movement and didn’t care if damage boost or resurrect were deleted from the game for the most part but instead of targeting her problems (damage boost and resurrect) they gutted her movement which only made her feel awful to play and the problem with her massive with her play style were still present with the nerfed ga. That nerf also made the play style that people hate more prevalent. To add salt to injury, they nerfed damage boost anyways in subsequent patches…
Open queue was butt cheeks, 6v6 only got balanced because they stopped adding heroes, hog rework was good & is a real rework, him being able to sustain the front line much more equates to more time “playing with the team” supports just need nerfs. Nerf purple duration & give Illari uptime on pylon, make bap lamp an ability that only lasts a second, & make Kiri suzu only cleanse & not imort & let people die through LW pull
I would love to see Spilo and Emongg together in one of these at some point, because most people might not know but emongg has a gigi brain when it comes to ow, and it would be great to see him and spilo talk about ow
Huge respect for everyone being so considerate in their takes. Representing and commanding well deserved respect from the top, which is what we need more of ❤ Another banger SVB cheers for making all these podcast they're so awesome! ❤❤
Interesting idea for lamp I came up with: drone hovers over bap and moves with him while providing immortality to those in radius except bap. He gets a bit of damage reduction, but now bap is the target for drone. This means if he wants to take sniper duels, he’s in the open or forced to hide around a corner while teammates peek. And in team fights it’s a target priority switch instead of being forced out
The open queue discussion needs to stop. The game is complete garbage when you log on and want to play your hero and you are forced to play an entirely different role because there are too many support players or too many dps players on your team and you're destined to lose because it's the third game in a row you're forced to swap and you're fucking sick of playing heroes you don't want to. Which is exactly how tank feels right now, the tank problem is fixable through balance and reworks. People never liked open queue they liked the fact that the game was fresh and new the game lost a shit ton of players before it changed to role queue. Acting like the games population went down because of role queue is nonsense. Cater to the current player base who likes role queue and balance around that and people will slowly come back and enjoy the game again.
Thank you Spilo for correcting Samito about kiriko, maybe she needs a fundamental change or whatever, but you can't just straight nerf her without buffing something else in her kit. The fact is her winrate is like 45% and a LOS nerf to her teleport (without compensation buffs) would absolutely make the hero unplayable.
Not every character needs compensation buffs when their getting nerfed. Susu would still be broken and her ult is one of the best support ults in the game. A LOS nerf would not make her unplayable
If Roadhog uses 2 consecutive seconds of Take a Breather, he cleanses negative effects. Give Hog counter play but make him use a big resource to do it. Edit: Spelling
That’s another reallly good idea. Now it’s a resource, I’ve seen a lot of people give ideas that introduce survival decision making which is an interesting counterpoint to how he had damage range decision making before.
Yeah but now the problem switches from Hog to Mauga and then to whatever new tank that isn't a shield tank/have a mitigation ability like defense matrix
Easy, dont have roll based passives, give each hero their own unique passive you can tweak, every single moba has this, and argue all you want, Overwatch is a moba shooter.
what if pylon had to be charged? what i mean is, let's say pylon can heal up to 400hp total and after that it does nothing until illari goes and charges it with her healing beam and if it gets destroyed (either by illari or the enemy) it slowly recharges like rein shield. that way it would not have infinite uptime. deployment cooldown obviously would need to go down, but it wouldn't matter since it will need to be recharged to function.
I didn't play original open queue but it feels like a super underrated mode in OW2 RN especially for my fellow tank mains. 1. Tanks have less health so the duels are way more reasonable and 2. Usually you aren't tanking alone which mean you have the freedom to leave the front line without your team falling over!
issue was: you were always gambling to have a tank player on your team, diamond and below you had 4 DPS and 2 supports or a ball, it happened so often and people just forget about it
I just dont like facing healers like Moira, Mercy and Brig because in low ranks why play something with mechanical skill when you can just win every duel as Moira
Random thought but what if anti nade didnt stop self healing only healing from other outside sources. Eg hog could still use breather, jq can still get health from wounds, maugas overdrive heal thing would still work. But their supports couldn't heal them. Because their survivability comes from self healing instead of a shield or matrix anti nade is so brutal for them. Anti isnt so bad for rein or dva because at least you can block it or if you get hit you still have a defensive tool.
Come on, did you not see the point that heroes with mitigation abilities are not as susceptible to anti nade, so it matters not that they don’t benefit from this guy’s proposed change.
@Kanggaxx how is it confusing and weird? You pick tank, get hit with anti, healing stops, you use personal heal ability and see that’s the only thing that healed through it. Monkey brain make conclusion.
The difference I feel playing Genji v Sojourn is crazy. Genji I have to play god mode to get the same value as Sojourn. And Sojourn isn’t even that great.
Samito "I'm a window hater but don't want her destroyed." Me: "I'm a hanzo hater and I want that trunk shooting choke spamming abomination to be deleted from existence." Also, dps passive is only useful on ash lmao.
Something I've wanted to test out with Immortality, is if it has a certain capacity limiter before it breaks - for example if any/all targets within its field take more than 500 combined damage, the lamp breaks. This way you can still burn it down even if it's outside your visible field of view, but you also have to actually deal a lot of damage, especially if it's on a single target enemy inside the lamp. Maybe there could be an adjustment relative to how many people are inside its range as it deploys - say it gains 200 extra damage mitigation per person inside it. This way, if Bap uses it on himself to peek a Widow, the Widow can land a headshot to break the lamp, and then a follow-up shot to damage Bap directly. But say there is someone else in its reach alongside Bap, then you have to deal 400 damage to anyone in its range to break it, aka a headshot + a body shot. This would add more nuance and counterplay even when lamp is in a position where it can't be destroyed directly. Also making it a damage reduction field instead of immortality, but as a buff you put it on a much lower cooldown. You could even make it so enemies within its field take increased damage, so you have more ways of making use of it - or maybe it could prevent cleanses/grips/enemy anti-cc abilities like Suzu, grip, etc. You could also do something similar with Pylon, where it heals up to a certain amount before it goes on a cooldown, so you can't just passively throw it and let it eat poke damage forever with no counterplay/consequence.
225 is good for zen because he gets to last a tad bit longer when i feed on him with sombra..He can occasionally survive the assassination attempt now..
People who want to go back to open queue are MAD, just MAD. Role lock was implemented because of Goats, but it was never the reason it should have been. I stopped playing ow at some point bc I was sick of 5 dps 1 support, and got back to the game with role lock, even with how bad dps queues were, it was still miles better. There is an argument to be made for going back to 6v6, but never open queue.
I feel like SVB and most people on the 5v5 bandwagon would rather have a broken game where everyone can get away with whatever than a fun game where anyone can have an impact on a team. It's so hollow coming from lifelong creators like this and I feel like most of these people have sold their souls to this game by now. It's the only way you could ever excuse how terrible this game plays currently.
