@@billwoods7578 nintendo absolutely butt fucked tournaments with shitty ass regulations iirc, only affecting japan and europe for now, but i would not be shocked at all once it reaches the US
@@ismaelrodriguezbarrero4945 I’m good friends with some Ultimate players, and all I have to say is you can keep your wacky game all for yourself. I’m okay not fighting min-min, Kazuya, Sonic, GnW, ROB, Pythra, Pac-Man or any of the other ridiculously annoying characters to fight against.
I've been playing DK since 64, DK has always been my secondary in Melee, mained DK in Brawl and PM. So glad to see DK finally getting the love! I always knew deep down DK had the potential in melee, I was just never good enough to show it.
I think something exemplified by Amsa's recent victories, is the concept of a "personal tierlist." That is to say, Amsa wouldn't do better with a higher-tier character, because for him, Yoshi is the character he would always do the best with. Making Yoshi the highest on his *personal* tierlist. There's real reason to believe this too, as Yoshi can do things no other character can, like the parry thing with his egg shield. Yoshi also can doublejump out of combos, and doesn't have to worry about shield tilting or being poked through shield. The point is, Yoshi very likely plays directly into Amsa's strengths as a player while potentially avoiding some weaknesses, so much so that he would do worse if he put the work into higher tiers because there's no other character that plays like Yoshi. I feel like every character that brings something useful & unique to the table will have someone who finds them to be their "personal S-tier" but many people don't even try them out because they're just going to pick a top tier, and that's fine. Not everyone can put the time into learning a not-perfectly-documented character, and don't want to bother hindering themselves when they have fun playing Falco or Marth or whatever. But, how many people are missing out on a character like say, Samus because of that? What other platform fighter are you going to get a dedicated big player base for, that has a Floaty Heavy-Weight Zoner? Who's going to even *know* that ranks high on their personal tier list without trying it and putting a lot of time in? It's really interesting, and I hope the DK players go hard enough to get people to try more characters more often, it's not just for hype moments of low-tiers taking on the best players with the best characters, it's also because I feel there's so much potential being untapped. Like isn't there only ONE sheik main who both performs well and actually uses zelda at all? There's no way Zelda is genuinely bad enough to never ever switch. Niche for sure, but I never see anyone do it at all. I will say this though: To the Bowser and Kirby players, you will never prosper and your genuine struggles will result in nothing but anguish. Bear that cross for no one but yourselves. To the Roy and Pichu players, dude just pick the better version of your character unless you're trolling lol. (You're not gonna cheese the puff enough times with Roy to win the set unless you were gonna win anyways, dude. Take the matchup knowledge if it's actually that bad.)
I will say, Zelda actually is bad enough that it's basically never worth it to switch. Zelda is useful for recoveries that sheik couldn't make, and occasionally a rest punish. but nah character really sucks, and sheik is really good, so changing in neutral is just bad.
The two classic use cases for Zelda are long recoveries and fighting ICs. Zelda also has better rest punishes than Shiek. Weed Lesbian aka Rienne aka controller mother has been pushing more Zelda use. Her recommendations include switching to Zelda during Shiek dittos so you can't get chain grabbed and switching to get out of long Marth combos that would otherwise kill.
@@nahometesfay1112 yeah I mean, rienne is cool but if I'm being real I just don't really buy it. I think that the amount you give up in neutral and advantage far, far outweigh the upside you get in disadvantage.
I'm still hoping DK wins it all some day. But I think we're going to have to be patient if it's going to happen. Remember, it took aMSa a decade to do it with Yoshi.
Watching Magi try everything in Falcos power to find a hole in that DK's shield to land any sort of hit just to fail and get punished to death really made DK look like a true top tier. I could feel the frustration lol.
The whole crowd was chanting his name last stock and honestly it seemed like it threw him off. It's such a hard matchup and none looked great this weekend.
I won't be fully convinced until we see a DK place Top 8 at a major first, at which point I can only compare to when Shroomed's Doc was basically the peak for Dr. Mario in the meta before the character got outpaced by the meta. I would love to be proven wrong and see mid tiers continue to take big set wins and place high at big tournaments, so we'll have to wait and see. Long live Melee.
Personally I'd love to see a DK go the distance but I feel like the real challenge hasn't even started yet. People like Aklo have already made some matchups look ridiculous and once a DK starts becoming a tournament-winning threat, the top players will put in the work to learn the matchup. Then it gets way harder, just like with aMSa. I think yeah the first step is to top 8 with solo DK. I think with some bracket luck at a smaller major it could certainly happen in the near future, but I hope we see more fruitful developments in the DK meta to make it seem like he can really do it.
The thing that gives DK power is similar to a grappler in traditional 2D fighters: Fear. Fear is greatly heightened in tournaments which helps DK a lot. June being a long time top player, at one point one of the best Melee Sheiks, the number 1 PM player with Diddy, etc, has the fundies to capitalize on this fear more than almost anyone else. Falco being the pinnacle glass cannon in Melee being the most suceptible to these kind of mind games leading to a loss. DK as a character hasn't really gained anything of value in years. UCF helps but not nearly as much as it helps other characters. However as a weak and relatively low popularity character he gets to catch people with matchup unfamiliarity which helps a lot in a game where even combos can be quite character dependent. Magi giving June FD was also a mistake given how aggressive Magi likes to play, as showcased getting hit by that giant punch knockdown that June turned into a stock. Magi needed to play extremely defensive and campy on FD, but didn't and lost the set for it.
yea hes such an fgc ass character by melee's standards. think its part of why hes fun to watch. you have a clear win condition and when you get it enough you probably win.
@@wusstunes He's simple, he hits hard, fear creates uncharacteristic mistakes in the opponents, and he's unpopular at higher levels so he's also novel for viewers. It's why even though grapplers are unpopular to play, and people generally don't like fighting them as much as other characters, viewers absolutely love them. But he's also extremely limited by Melee or even just general platform fighter standards. IMO that's why we won't see the rise of DK everyone "hopes for" (but would actually hate in practice). June is just cracked, but if people actually lab out the matchup and practice it, DK goes back to being trash. Also if viewers see too much DK, he goes right back to being boring compared to our dynamic Melee staples.
I think it's more balanced than that. If you can win the mental game you can do well with the character, and the character's technical potential is still far from realized by players like June. Probably not feasible for top 10 or even top 20 level, but I think it has a place in the game.
@@wusstunes If you can win the mental battle and your opponent doesn't know the counterplay or have it down mechanically, you can beat even a top player with any character. Zain beat people with Roy, M2K used to beat everyone but the God's with Pichu, etc. But unlike someone like Yoshi who gained his power spike through Amsa, and who even Leffen and others said years ago had top tier potential but was just "too difficult": DK doesn't have a bunch of crazy tech nobody is using that could boost his potential. He is what he is and what he is isn't that great in the reality of the game. Matchup unfamiliarity and fear are currently carrying him hard. Look at Cody losing to Morse. He threw that game in reality, because it's a hard matchup with a lot of little things to know and he doesn't know the matchup well so he's lost to him twice. Leffen had the same problem against Plup, Duck, etc for years. But when he labbed it out he never lost again. When Cody finally buckles down and does the same for Samus as he's done for Puff, he won't lose to Morse anymore either because Samus just like DK is just capped out and can't compete when both players have essentially mastered the matchup. Not only that, he still has other characters besides spacies to play against where his grappler style gameplan doesn't work, and he's got nothing new in those matchups, he's just hard losing. The amount of better than your opponents that you have to be in order to win a DK vs Peach/Puff/ICs, matchups is just not feasible for anyone except a top player like Junebug who's way above top 50 level who's essentially just memeing on people with DK because he can. It's like Mangos scorp, Zain roy, etc. Only works because they are just that much better than everyone else and nobody knows the weird little stuff in the matchup.
saw the donkey kong renaissance video and yt recommendations brought me back, subbed cause im excited for the future of melee donkey kong :D (i dont even play melee)
Hbox's reaction to beating Ginger being screaming until he's laying unconscious, where as Junebug's reaction to beating Ginger's just "monke" speaks volumes.
Those were for community events not licensed events. As long as majors keep their license (big if there) they should be fine. This is still not great news.
i was randomly listening to your videos while doing stuff for the past hour and then i find out you uploaded a new vid as i was watching this is fucked up but kinda awesome ya know
Just going to say that June went game 5 with n0ne, if he had won he would've fought mang0 and the other 2 big wins he got here were vs falco. He had a real chance of top 8
The year is 20DK. Junebug beats Zain in the grand finals 3-0 from the winners bracket while not dropping a single game all tourney, to push his set count against Zain to 47-10
Every character's growth in the meta is reliant on the playerbase. The thing with Junebug is that I'm not sure if he even has the aspirations to bring out DK's maximum potential, and as far as I know there is no other DK player who brings home the results like Junebug does. So it all depends on Junebug for now. I think Junebug's DK definitely has room for improvement though, especially in getting more consistent with the punish game.
I think personally, DK does not have the potential to win a major, I think the character's weaknesses in the size of his hurtbox and his lack of a decent recovery are enough to block him out of that, but I do think, given the right bracket, a solo DK could make it into top 8 at a major. It could even happen as soon as Genesis 10, assuming all Smash tournaments aren't outlawed and punishable by death by then.
Ult top 8 was done poorly by TBH (as per usual) and the lack of top players made it not even a major LOL. Hopefully Melee centric tournaments continue to treat Ult like a side event so that they die quicker and we can get rid of this shit ass old ass game soon.
4:23 gross, i still can't believe the ultimate community isn't following hbox's lead to ban this pixelated turd as a whole, it's like nobody notices that there must be a reason why these very young and inexperienced players are getting to grandfinals in majors beating much better players along the way
This was not a major, many top players dropped out of it for many reasons (Big House not paying Ult players, or other better tournaments closer in date). Hopefully the Ult side of Big House will continue to have less and less entrants, and they go broke. Ult has plenty majors left, Melee becoming smaller would be great.
