The Greatest Twist In Video Game History Is A Lie 

its been so long since I played those two games. where the patriots the bossess or someone else in MGS3?

@@MrMariosonicman Nearly every character who survived MSG3 would go on to become a founding member of the Patriots. Major Zero, Naked Snake, Eva, Para-Medic, Revolver Ocelot, and Sigint were all either founding or early-recruited members.

​@@MrMariosonicman hope you didn't like Para-Medic

I remember seeing a dude online back way before MGS4 came out who made a theory about it and called litterally everything, was like he could see right into kojimas head. Coolest thing was he even called that you play as big boss and not snake in MGS 3 which wasn't obvious before release, people even thought it is a ridiculous idea. But man it was crazy seeing so much stuff he said come true.

@@brotbrotsen1100 That's insane! Props to that guy

Based

If that aint the trans experience idk what is

Fr

@@korvidkillz From transmasc to transmech

​@@thatitalianlameguy2235 He got trans groomed

I want this to be true SO bad

iirc, kojima worked on GB

Devs: we want the truth! Kojima: You can't handle the truth!

Thats probably exactly what happened. Its like for Marvel movies, James Gunn asked the Russo brothers to include a kiss between Star Lord and Gamora to set up his guardians 3 stuff.

"Kojima also stated he worked on developing the game with the intent of not having it seem "dumb" to players who have already played Metal Gear Solid." - Metal Gear Wiki

It does!

You sonnuva bitch you're right! Holy macaroly

Wtf is the end bit

@@ianweckhorst3200 It's revealed that the character you play that is controlling Snake in the simulation is named Jack, implying it is Raiden. It also came out a year before MGS2

@@CCDaDon15 of the video, not the game

As someone who's name is Jack and forgot Raiden's actual name was Jack before watching this video, I sorta kinda experienced this

Similar thing, but my Dad's name is David, so when I watched him play through the original MGS and Snake said "Call me David" I just assumed the game somehow knew your name.

Every copy of Metal Gear Ghost Babel is personalized???

bluhhhh

Guess i'm happy that my name's Piergiorgio

God I fucking love Wikipedia admins LMAO

Wait really???

Just checked and you're right. That was quick lol

Yeah lmfao

When one of you favorite youtubers ends up changing wikipedia on complete accident

Which is a fascinating idea tbh. Imagine that you are given a name by your superior officer that you are required to go by in all communications during your mission...then 5 minutes into the mission they just go "actually, I'm going to rename you. From now on your name is Frank. Ok?" Like at any moment your NAME, your identity, can just be taken away and replaced like it was nothing. That sets you up to have some existential dread. Who am I? Do I even have a name? Does it matter? Then, after all that, Rose just outs you as "Jack," violating their protocol about using a code name. His first name is literally Jack and now all of their elaborate efforts to hide the truth are wasted lol

@@marvelsandals4228 That still confuses me though. Cause Rose was an AI at that point so they outed themselves. But we see the pay off of The hind D from MGS1 being The Gurlukovich soldiers raiding the marine ship THEN the plant with Ocelot. So there has to be some things that DID happen unless you want to say the MG1, MG2, MGS1, and MGS3 ALL never happened. Which is true since its a videogame series of course. But we're talking about in universe. Or I guess in this instance its "in simulation"? Geez Did Kojima predict the fixation on multiverses in modern day media too? Because thats like saying "What if this simulation WAS real and separate from what you know?"

​@@RustedBuddy5192Rose intentionally makes that "mistake" in order to create a false sense of intimacy with Raiden and make him easier to control

@@RustedBuddy5192 remember you are sent on mission with faulty intel (false information) and get betrayed in every single Game! So it's less about the Simulation being real or not but the player characters and the player themselves having to come to the conclusion that they will never know the full truth!

​@@marvelsandals4228: To be fair, I have changed the codenames of some of my soldiers in Portable Ops.

I approve, although perhaps Gamechamp should be ranting about Kojima since he ORCHESTRATED all of this

r/okbuddynanomachines

You are an absolute genius.

r/okbuddynanomachicanery

Your name checks out.

Ghost Babel may be non-canon, but I think it's the best Metal Gear game, no exaggeration.

Cope

@@GamingintheAM0801 It can't be, Rising exists.

@@johnfkennedyinanopentopcar8976 what

​@@SupermewX300 Rising's just okay I'm sorry but I'd rather just play an MGS game for the dumb humor or a DMC game for hack n slash gameplay

100% the entire point of the game. A lot of art leaves you asking questions like Joel from the Last of Us. MGS2 leaves you asking about the events that transpired in the first place, and more importantly, what of it even matters.

​@Flood Which is why I was never a fan of MGS4 coming along and just telling us what was real and what wasn't. It defeated the point. I get that MGS4 was only made due to fan request, but it stands as a prime example of why fans shouldn't be allowed to dictate the direction of a franchise against it's creator's wishes.

@@GamingintheAM0801 And even then, they took the absolute least interessting way possible to lock in the truth. It's the same "Nanomachines, son" that Revengence did later, except with the style and satisfaction of a wet noodle. (In general, there seems to be a weird kind of trinity of MG-styles. The serious story, the supernatural intrigue and the off the walls-insanity. The closer it goes away from focussing on either of these three extremes and towards a middlepoint, the more the stories suffers and become a muddied mess.)

​@@TheFloodFourm I think I saw a vid once that said that the game represents subjectivity of modern reality. Where everything including the game can be interpreted differently by anyone.

@@lpfan4491 I think the "Nanomachines, son" was partially just mocking MGS4 for explaining everything with nanomachines.

OMFG I just realized this 22 years later.

no kills, no alerts, no nothing... get outta here

See above 👆

You want even more misinformation? This entire video is actual misinformation that modifies the truth, as at this point there was already a character named Jack, Big Boss, the main antagonist of the series. I hope this video doesn't spread even MORE misinformation, but honestly, Kojima warned us, people will get fooled by this.

Kojima really is a genius

He was ahead of the curve.

Kojima is the ultimate troll.

The hell is Dave

that last sentence was a slap in the face

why would you say something so controversial yet so true

I don’t know anything about what you’re talking about, but I find it weird that Tom Brady somehow fits into this story.

Lmao dambb

The VR Missions on PS1 is that

​@@Vanity0666lol maybe, maybe not. The game obviously doesn't mention a specific console. And the PlayStation VR missions don't call you jack at the end, how can you just easily dismiss them like that

@@zs4580 VR Missions, Ghost Babel, and Twin Snakes are the simulation missions leading up to Raiden's first actual real world op Snake doesn't use VR, his training is performed under the simulation invasions of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land

@@Vanity0666 Snake absolutely talks about VR training in some codec calls in Metal Gear Solid. IIRC those calls only say that if you go through them, but it means of course, that the game actually plays it that the training missions are done in-universe by Solid and not by you as a player.

@@KasumiRINA he says that VR training exists but that its worthless and the simulations can never match up to the real deal, which ends up being ironic because he himself is a simulation of Big Boss

I guess the dilemma still technically stands because it’s non-canon.

​@@noucheNo, the dilemma doesn't exist. It's his first mention even if it isn't in the canonical plot of the main series games. Just how Togepi and Ho-oh first appeared in the anime, before they even had canonical games. It's relative to real world mentions, not to in game continuity.

@@jebuzjaime : It makes sense but then the thing is also that we can’t absolutely be sure it was Raiden who was mentioned in Ghost Babel. It’s very likely… but we’ll never exactly know if they really had him in mind at the time, or not. So the example of Pokémon isn’t the best because those were clearly intended to be new Pokémon, and were then used in games with a similar design and the same names. This Jack thing was just a bottle toss in the sea with the one first name, and it’s quite a common one. Like an open thread, to be used or not. Maybe it’s MGS2 that _retroactively_ chose to make Ghost Babel a first appearance when Raiden was created, by naming him Jack. It would then make it true, but not originally unintended/planned, making it a different scenario than that of Pokémon. Or they really just had him in mind all along, we don’t know. Heck, even Big Boss’s name is also Jack!

@@nouche Erm, ackshually his real name is John and Jack is just an alias…🤓

GIGABRAIN MOVE

"WHY IS THE LORE SO CONFUSING?!" "Nanomachines, son"

Bruh this isn't half as confusing as figuring out what the hell ocelot is doing at any given moment.

@@ohmannotaga and that is EXACTLY what makes him so hard to figure... as in, to know what he's at you need to know EVERYTHING.

*ONE TENTH of the history of one Metal Gear character

@@zyxluz4645 and the other half is the boss and then 25% is her will

Deeeeeeeeeeep

Yep

☹️

Something something theming The twist wasn't even fully hidden or suppressed, the truth was just kept in a space that most people wouldn't look. Those that would wouldn't put the mystery together or wouldn't be able to communicate their findings well enough to matter. The natural tendency towards convenient half-truths, y'know?

Anyway clearly Ghost Babel actually is canon by being non-canon canonically in-universe as real fake "what-if" scenarios designed to train the next not-snake

What

​@@MallowyGoodnessI think I'm too in-tune with Metal Gear's themes and narratives because I perfectly understood that.

@@ValiareTheForsaken01 yeah im a kingdom hearts fan that keeps ending up in mgs videos and i understood it perfectly. seems like you just need a primer in japanese wacked outed ness.

​@@MallowyGoodnessAre you saying Metal Gear Ghost Babel is canon?

That's just every Hideo Kojima game/franchise

Honestly that is the best part of the games at this point. A rollecoaster of fucking with the fanbase that somehow makes sense

It's always weird seeing Metal Gear fans get so hung up on canon, because (at least prior to MGS4) the games themselves made it pretty clear that the canon didn't really matter, and that it also didn't even really *exist.* When MGS2 refers to Raiden's "VR training," they're referring to all the previous games as a whole. Like, when the Colonel is explaining the new controls for the sniper rifle, he says that it's "been changed slightly from the VR training," because the controls have literally changed since the last game. It even includes the non-canon entries, as evidenced by the A.I. Colonel quoting lines from Ghost Babel and VR Missions when he starts to go haywire. The implication of everything is that the prior games may or may not be VR missions in and of themselves, and the uncertainty of what's real and what isn't was an intentional part of what MGS2 was trying to do. And honestly, while I've never fully subscribed to the "it's all VR training" theory, I do think it's kind of a shame that MGS4 retconned that reading of the game. If MGS2 had been the canonical endpoint of the timeline like Kojima originally wanted, it would have left some really interesting discussions to this day. But no, fans just *had* to know the identity of the Patriots even though it's just the MGS version of the Illuminati and so knowing who they are defeats the point. 🤷‍♂️

​@@GamingintheAM0801 not to mention its highly likely the big boss we see and play as in 3 and Peace Walker was Venom experiencing his brainwashing over the events that happened.

@@Phantom-kc9ly "Snake, you can't do that! The future will be changed, you'll create a time paradox!"

@@GamingintheAM0801 i wonder if the only reason they establish what was and wasnt canon was so you would know where all the callbacks in 4 come from. almost like a "these are the only games that matter to get the most out of this game" sort of way

@@GamingintheAM0801 You can consider whatever you want as part of the main story for yourself but what matters in the end is what the original creator and author considers to be canon and Kojima was always pretty clear that only the games he directed are part of it. That doesn't mean that the other games suck or don't necessarily fit into the overall story. It's just Kojimas story and vision, so while talking about the series, the story, characters, it's themes etc. it's important to keep that in mind. That's why mgs fans "get so hung up on canon". Even Kojima himself wants to make the difference clear between the "A Hideo Kojima Games" and the ones where he was maybe at most a producer.

This is all about the art of story telling about the psyche!!! Ego - Super Ego - I.D. In biblical lore rabbis believe that Jesus Lucifer Satan Are all the same Person… Jesus would be the higher self = Ego Satan being the Lower Self = Super Ego Lucifer being the I.D. Entity = Identity- an idea 💡

He was mentioned and depicted in the manual, which also had a comic introducing the world of F-Zero.

not to be confused with raikov. I love this series.

Fucking cringe. What, Snake wasn't Solid Snake until he beat Big Boss?

Until part-way through 4 where he sort of ditches the Raiden name to call himself Lightning before finally coming to terms with his name being Jack at the end, only to then pick up the name Raiden again in Revengeance before once again dropping back to Jack right before fighting Monsoon... Metal Gear truly is a series of all time

@@ravenrealm718 He drops back to Jack "the ripper" specifically when Sam and Monsoon call him out for being a psycho-murderer, so he decides to be a psycho-murderer to kill Monsoon but then everybody just calls him Jack as in Jack because Jack is his real name

This was the moment Jack became Heisenberg

​@@turkish8969 she's Transfem, and she uses she/her pronouns I believe

@Rlocks she / they, last I checked. mightve swapped more recently tho EDIT: thanks to Baqly, gamechamp is using She/Her. last I had checked was at least 6 months.

@@CallMeDoc_ ah, apologies, forgot exactly so was going with what I remember!

@@CallMeDoc_ looking at her recent streams she has a banner that says she her pronouns, so she is going by she her!

@@turkish8969 What sounds do genders make?

Oh my god, you're right. How the hell did I forget that Big Boss' name was also Jack? I suppose his name probably wasn't confirmed until Metal Gear Solid 3, so in truth they named Raiden first, then later decided to give Big Boss the same name, but still, it is fascinating that they share the same name. Big Boss and Snake share the same genes (sort of), but Big Boss and Raiden share the same name (again, sort of). Who is the protagonist of Ghost Babel? Jack. That fact doesn't answer the question, it just opens up more questions. Which Jack? Raiden? Big Boss? Or some OTHER character named Jack? This franchise is madness

@@marvelsandals4228 Wasn't Raiden raised by Solidus (at least a child soldier for him)? It's possible Solidus named the kid after his "dad".

Why would an ageing Big Boss be put through VR simulations of the soldier that was cloned from him? Who is putting him through these simulations? Makes no sense. It's Raiden.

​@@wintermute8315we crossed a line of what makes sense a long time ago.

@@wintermute8315: It does make no sense but hey, he’s playing video games cuz he’s proud of his big boy! Yes, like we both said. Makes no sense. That’s just the beauty of non-canon parallel universes. Remember you have to go through a stupid Donkey Kong minigame to get that line of dialogue to even show up~

Babble? Minor spelling mistake, you're wrong, i win

RU-vidrs who make video essays on crazy topics enjoy watching RU-vidrs who make video essays on crazy topics. Huh, who would have thought?

yo, it's the W guy

jan Misali’s here, hiiiiii! I just recently discovered that I do enjoy many of the videos that you make, so cool you watch Gamechamp too!

i totally feel her... i first played MGS out of order and ever since then ive decided to play games like this (within reason)

I want to play in story order. So MGS5 before MGS4, the two I missed.

So did gamechamp play all of Zelda and mario including spinoffs to get to botw and odyssey or is that just a random exception? It seems kind of random to have played 50ish Mario and 30ish Zelda but 3 pokemon

This kind of psychotic theorizing is commonplace in other games I like so it's pretty easy to understand lol

That entire legend of zelda segment was so entirely on point. Though I wish there'd been reference to Link among the rest of the clutter.

"her"?

​@@XDWXthat kept confusing me to the narrator refered to herself as she

​@@Istaly17they use female pronouns

​@Istaly17 there a girls I don't get the confusion

I've heard before that they didn't particularly try to hide it for the PAL release of the game since it was already in two regions and the internet existed. Not sure how true that really is, though

@@MixMasterLar That's probably true - it certainly makes a lot of sense! I forgot that PAL regions used to get games so much later.

Everything in the game didn’t take place.

Simple everytime you where playing as both solid snake completing the real mission and jack completing the VR recreations of those real mission. Aka schrödinger's snake.

This is kinda the whole idea behind MGS2. Too bad people didn’t realize it then, but nowadays? Its one of the greatest games in terms of theming.

"No Ghost Babel was not a VR mission unless you subscribe to the idea Raiden was playing a VR mission as himself playing a VR mission and get out of my house!"

Congratulations, you just realized the entire point of MGS2's story. If you bother to listen to any of the optional Codec calls, the Colonel basically slaps us in the face with "the last game was all VR."

Ghost Babel is part of the "Legend of Snake" or "Snake Tales" Raidens VR training for the Shadow Moses scenario is Twin Snakes

The goal of the Patriots wasn't to create more clones of Solid Snake, it was to create super soldiers who were trained off of the legends of people, through a combinatory selection of memetic data and gene editing, to surpass the reality of what Snake as a human being amounted to and progress into mythological beings (which results in the creation of the Beauty and Beast Corps)

There's actually three more! When he tells you about a fork in the conveyer belt, and when he tells you to destroy the power plant with C4, which are objectives from Ghost Babel, and the weird story about the man named Two-Point Five is also from a secret Easter egg in Ghost Babel as well. Also, when he starts going haywire, he'll occasionally glitch out and his portrait will be replaced with the one from Ghost Babel for a frame or two.

​@@GamingintheAM0801TIL. And some people were saying Ghost Babel wasn't a simulation Raiden played, when all those references are present in MGS2. I'm going to play Ghost Babel now, is 2.5 a shadowy figure from a codec call or what?

It’s a fun reference in the other games but it is confirmed to be non-canon by Kojima himself

@@wollins7244 yeah yeah "Its non-canon but I can't help making people double think since I shove so much shit in it"

@@wollins7244 But I think the whole point of this game and many of Kojima's creative decisions were deliberately to toy with the concept of canon. For example, in Metal Gear Solid 1, the player can fail the torture mini game, and the ending is different, with Meryl dying at Shadow Moses. Then later it is confirmed that Meryl is alive and well. How can that be if the player lived the events of the game firsthand and saw her die? Was the whole game not reality, but just an alternate reality similar to the real timeline? In truth, they can do that at any time, presenting a "timeline" where events we KNOW are true apparently didn't happen the way we think it did. For example, in MGS2 the Colonel during the Codec calls was not the real Colonel, but a creation by the AI of "GW" to guide Raiden's actions. Then in MGS4 the Colonel (to be vague about the details) knows Rose well and it is implied that they have worked together in the past, perhaps on Raiden's mission...but that's impossible, we KNOW the real Colonel wasn't involved. The more you replay these games and think about the details the less sure you are about how ANY of these storylines could possibly be reconciled as one true canon.

@@Tman2bard Psycho Mantis also mentions you loving Castlevania among other things and Snake catches monkeys and laments that Gabe (Syphon Filter) and Sam (Splinter Cell) weren't available. These are just Easter Eggs, references to other games. Don't overthink it. All games do it, and people just react as "gotcha, you made a Star Wars reference here" but we MGS fans go "OH WHAT DID KOJIMA MEANT WITH THIS". xD

Kojima is also a very openly self-indulgent guy, and given GB's referenced in MGS2, it's at the very least deliberate and something that I, personally, had never noticed.

I mean, the simple fact that the franchise's writing took a dive off a cliff after Fukushima left is all the proof I need.

Yeah Kojima is by no means a bad game maker, but for what it's worth, he's overrated to the point of idolization and it was the ENTIRE TEAM that made the magic work.

Super Bunnyhop put it best in his MGS2 video: "This was Kojima trying to tell his fans to stop worrying about canon and learn to love subtext."

You're right we won't know everything, but part of our experience is trying to know and sharing what we know. It is the shared experience and lore in memory. The point of people sharing is to make a cumulative memory. A memory which much like know how to make fire might help or give others clarity in explaining their own memories.

Bro clearly hasn't sifted through hours and hours of mgs2 deep analysis videos

There were absolutely games with more mind-breaks than MGS2, for example, Undertale, Eternal Darkness, Stanley Parable to an extent. Spec Ops: the Line can be pretty close too. I like MGS2 but only final chapter of it is weird like that. You should try playing MGS games, at least the trilogy of numbered ones (1, 2 and 3). They're kinda short, have multiple ways to complete (stealth or guns blazing) and are interesting experience. Videos about the game don't really translate that.

It's not April Fool's, Kojima really did try to turn Metal Gear into Kingdom Hearts. 😂

@@autobotstarscream765 ...Tried?

That's just Metal Gear as a series in a nutshell. In this case, it's macadamia.

MG2?

@@vierzwanzigen9722 apparently 9 months ago I made a typo. MGS2