I'm trying to figure out how the Earth radiates IR in any significant way with an atmosphere sitting on it. I can see IR emitted from top of the atmosphere, but not at lowere levels.
The "Greenhouse Effect" can be explained simply to just about anybody by losing the gas fixation, like this: - Earth's troposphere gets cooler with altitude (average 78 degrees colder at top than surface) because most sunshine reaches the surface. - Colder things radiate less than warmer things. The top 0.01 mm of any water surface and the top far less than 0.01 mm of land and objects radiate upwards, but there's also some water, ice, dust, salt, ash and other solids in the troposphere and they absorb some radiation emitted up from the very same stuff below at the surface. These water, ice, dust, salt, ash and other solids in the troposphere also radiate upwards (of course) just like the exact same things did below them, but they emit LESS upwards because they're colder because they're higher than the surface. So now less radiation gets to space and that's the "Greenhouse Effect" in Earth's troposphere (for example, it makes cloudy winter nights cool slower than clear winter nights). There's also some gases that can do that like H2O, CO2, CH4, O3, N2O, CFCs and they're called "infrared-active" or "greenhouse" (not nitrogen, oxygen or argon though). The more solids or liquids or infrared-active gases there are in the troposphere then provided they can mix well to the top the more it'll reduce Earth's cooling to space and try to make Earth warmer. -------- However, the water, ice, dust, salt, ash and other solids in the troposphere also reflect some sunshine and it's a bigger effect than their "Greenhouse Effect" so overall the more solids or liquids there are in the troposphere the cooler Earth gets. The infrared-active gases like H2O, CO2, CH4, O3, N2O, CFCs don't reflect any sunshine so overall the more "greenhouse gases (GHGs)" there are in the troposphere the warmer Earth gets.
But u said without greehouse effect life wouldnt be possible? How dose that happen? What amount or quantity of larger wavelength rays needs to be trapped in and how does they make life possible as from this video i have understood that green house effect helps in cold climate to grow plants etc but how dose the natural greenhouse effects the climate on the plant as a whole as our earth have warmer regions also apart from colder ones.
Another cooked up story about co2 the most important greenhouse gas is water vapour etc there are much better video about this subject without political demagoguery
The idea of controlling temperature by reducing outgoing radiation while keeping incoming radiation fixed suggests that you could somehow increase the temperature without supplying additional energy. This is fundamentally flawed due to the following reasons: The first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred. Therefore, if the incoming energy is fixed, the total energy available to the system remains constant. If you block or reduce outgoing radiation without increasing the incoming energy, the system cannot gain more energy than what it already receives. Thus, it cannot spontaneously reach a higher temperature. For the body to reach and maintain a higher temperature, it would need to absorb more energy than it radiates until it achieves a new equilibrium. However, reducing outgoing radiation does not add more energy to the system-it only delays heat loss. The temperature of the body is set by the point where the incoming and outgoing energy fluxes are equal. Blocking radiation does not change the fixed input; it only slows the rate at which energy leaves, which doesn’t lead to a higher equilibrium temperature. The concept of "trapping" heat by blocking outgoing radiation suggests that you could increase the body's temperature by recycling its own emitted energy. This would imply a system could generate more energy than it absorbs, effectively acting as a perpetual motion machine of the second kind, which violates the second law of thermodynamics. The second law dictates that energy flows naturally from hot to cold and that energy flux cannot amplify itself without an additional external energy source. The ratio of energy out to energy in is not a controllable parameter for heating a body. It is a result of the body reaching its natural equilibrium state given the fixed incoming energy: Attempting to reduce the energy out while keeping the energy in constant does not create more energy within the system. The equilibrium temperature is set purely by the incoming energy's intensity and the body’s ability to emit radiation at a certain temperature. Imagine a lightbulb that emits heat and light when electricity is supplied: If you place insulation around the lightbulb, you might slow down heat loss temporarily, but the maximum temperature it can reach is still defined by the electrical power (energy input) supplied. The insulation doesn’t allow the lightbulb to exceed this temperature because it doesn't increase the energy input-it merely reduces the rate of heat loss. The temperature of a continuously heated body, especially one heated by radiation, is strictly determined by its equilibrium temperature, which depends on the fixed incoming radiation and its emissivity. The notion of controlling the temperature by altering the "ratio of energy out to energy in" is flawed because it violates fundamental thermodynamic principles. You cannot increase the temperature or energy content of a body by merely blocking outgoing radiation while maintaining the same input energy. This would imply a self-heating mechanism, which is impossible without adding extra energy from an external source. Thus, the body's temperature is ultimately set by the energy input and reaches an equilibrium where incoming radiation equals outgoing radiation. Any other interpretation would contradict the laws of thermodynamics. Therefore, outgoing radiation is purely a consequence of the body's temperature, which in turn is set by the energy input. It does not have a causal effect on the temperature but is instead a manifestation of it. The outgoing radiation from any object is always a downstream result of its internal temperature, which is directly determined by the energy it absorbs from its surroundings. When a body is exposed to a fixed intensity heat source, such as solar radiation or any other constant external source, its temperature will rise until it reaches a point where the energy it radiates equals the energy it absorbs-the equilibrium state. This equilibrium temperature is determined solely by the intensity of the incoming radiation. Thus, any attempt to alter the temperature without changing the intensity of the incoming heat is fundamentally impossible. The idea that you can change a body's temperature by manipulating the ratio of incoming to outgoing energy is a misunderstanding of how thermodynamic systems work. The ratio itself is not a controllable parameter but an outcome of the body's internal temperature responding to the fixed energy input. In a passively heated system, you cannot influence this ratio independently because the outgoing energy will always adjust to match the incoming energy at equilibrium. The only scenario where you can actively control the ratio of energy out to energy in is when the body has an internal heat source capable of producing energy, such as a heat engine, a chemical reaction, or an electrical heater. A body cannot spontaneously heat faster than it would when exposed to a constant stream of thermal radiation, without the introduction of an additional energy source or mechanism that actively adds energy to the system. This is constrained by the first and second laws of thermodynamics, which govern how energy flows and is converted. When a body is exposed to a constant stream of thermal radiation, it absorbs energy at a specific rate determined by the intensity of the radiation, the body's surface area, emissivity, and absorptivity. As it absorbs energy, the body's temperature rises, which in turn increases the amount of energy it radiates back into its environment until it reaches a point of thermal equilibrium where the incoming and outgoing radiation are balanced. The first law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or converted. For a body to heat faster than what the incoming thermal radiation alone can provide, it would need access to additional energy beyond the steady radiative input. In the absence of such an external source, the body can only heat at the rate dictated by the incoming radiation. The second law states that heat flows from hotter regions to cooler regions, and systems naturally evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium without external intervention. For a body to heat more rapidly than what the radiation provides, it would imply an increase in internal energy beyond what is supplied, which would violate this law. Energy can't spontaneously accumulate at a faster rate than the energy input allows. While spontaneous acceleration in heating isn’t possible, certain mechanisms can cause a body to heat faster, but they require external intervention: Focusing or Concentrating Radiation: Using lenses or mirrors to concentrate thermal radiation onto the body could increase the rate of energy absorption, causing it to heat faster. However, this isn't spontaneous, as it involves an external setup to direct additional energy to the body. Heat Conduction or Convection: If another hotter object were placed in contact with the body or in its proximity, heat transfer through conduction or convection could increase its heating rate. Again, this isn't spontaneous because it involves introducing an external heat source. If the body underwent a chemical reaction or phase change that released energy (e.g., an exothermic reaction), it could warm faster. But this would require an initial trigger or catalyst, and the reaction is an additional source of energy, not spontaneous self-heating from radiation alone. Misconceptions about Self-Amplifying Heat The idea that a body could "heat itself" faster than the input energy permits is similar to the concept of a perpetual motion machine of the second kind, which the second law of thermodynamics forbids. This is because: To heat faster than the incoming radiation suggests that the body would be generating extra energy internally or amplifying the input energy, which is impossible without violating fundamental physical laws. Conclusion In the scenario where a body is bathed in a constant stream of thermal radiation, it can only heat at the rate determined by that radiation. It cannot spontaneously heat faster than this rate because doing so would violate the principles of energy conservation and the second law of thermodynamics. Any mechanism that increases the heating rate would require external intervention or an additional energy source, meaning it is not spontaneous or self-generated. christophepocharienergietechnik.com/2023/01/06/the-greenhouse-effect-the-largest-scientific-error-in-human-history/
It’s ironic that understanding global warming is so complex while its cause is straight forward, namely that greenhouse gases, unlike nitrogen and oxygen, readily absorb ‘infrared energy’ (heat). Absorption of such radiant energy causes these molecules to gyrate wildly and vigorously bump into neighboring molecules, thus causing them to ricochet off of other surrounding molecules that, in turn, bump into other molecules which bump into more, etcetera, etcetera. This energy of physical motion represents ‘kinetic energy’ - the measure of which is temperature. Just think of atmospheric heat as being the unified energy field of kinetic energy (physical particle action) and radiant energy (electromagnetic wave action).
Yes but the thermal resistance of the enclosure including the glass is precisely analogous to the so-called "greenhouse effect" in Earth's troposphere quite aside from its reduction of the heat being carried away from the outer surface by conduction. The glass exterior (assuming cold outside) radiates less than the glass interior, and that is EXACTLY the same as the "greenhouse effect" in Earth's troposphere which is colder at top portion (its amorphous outside) than at bottom portion (its amorphous inside) so troposphere radiates less out the top than out the bottom. But of course you know all that because you're you and not Mister Know It All. Of course, like you typed the other 2 greenhouse warming features are both caused by gravity for planet Earth, gravity prevents air wafting into space and taking its heat away, except infinitesimally, and prevents much by way of molecules forming a cloud to conduct heat from Earth, so that's the same 2 duties performed by a sealed greenhouse enclosure, air can't waft through and conduction to the outside is reduced. ---------- I've come across an appalling misinformation fake description of "greenhouse effect" by an ignoramus in another video. It's had 126, 000 views.
@grindupBaker I disagree. There's no long wave radiation source in either example to interact with CO2. Earth's Greenhouse Effect is about the full atmosphere being warmed by both direct sunlight, and energy store by the Earth's surface and releasing that energy via conduction n convection. More n more are becoming aware that C02 does little to the climate.
The good news about global warming is that it’s not being caused by increasing solar output or any other natural uncontrollable cause, and also that mankind generally understands that it’s the ‘amplified greenhouse effect’ which is the source of increasing global temperatures. With this in mind, it behooves us to rapidly advance and apply our scientific knowledge to the point that burning fossil fuels to produce electricity will become as antiquated as the burning of whale oil for light. Quote: “Anxiety must go. It must be replaced by faith and solemn confidence in the outworking of the divine plan.” Note: As sunlight (photons) is warming the surface of the world, surface heat energy is also radiating away from our planet in the form of ‘infrared radiation’ which passes freely thru the atmospheric gases of nitrogen and oxygen which do not absorb heat. Indeed, if it weren’t for greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide that ‘do interact’ strongly with infrared energy and ‘impede the escape’ of Earth’s radiant heat, then the planet would be perpetually frozen solid. Thankfully, even though greenhouse gases comprise only 4/10ths of one percent of the atmosphere, they are so powerful that they maintain a ‘blanketing effect’ by constantly ‘absorbing and releasing’ infrared heat energy over and over, again and again. In doing so, they gyrate wildly, thus causing them to vigorously collide with other atmospheric molecules which, in turn, collide with other air molecules, imparting the kinetic energy of motion throughout the atmosphere - and this vibratory state registers as temperature. For the big picture, search: Marcott reconstruction chart For more, search: ‘CO2 infrared radiation quantum level’ ‘Amplified greenhouse effect’ ‘Doable solutions global warming’
totally missing conduction of heat from surface/plants ect to air and convection that is blocked by roof of greenhouse - Think of car in parking lot hot summer day with windows up - roll them down - hot air flows out and up. hot air rises less dense exhaust via radiation to space - the more CO2 in upper atmosphere the faster it cools. Ideal gas law does explain hot air at surface and cooler air as it becomes less dense higher up. Zero need for 'green house gas' - still waiting for experiment that demonstrates doubling CO2 raises air temp 2.7F to 8.1F as required by mann made warming theory
This is how my Falls Church, VA high school George C. Marshall of the late 1970s taught of earth's greenhouse effect. Earth's greenhouse effect is the model of a system always in saturation from the strong greenhouse gas water vapor that adds 10°F (5.55°C) to the earth's average temperature and takes place within 20 meters of the surface, typically the earth. After 20 meters from the radiating surface all the greenhouse radiant energy has been completely absorbed by greenhouse gases. Its further heat transfer is by convection i.e. gas molecules bumping into each other. At 1% average tropospheric water vapor over 99% of earth's greenhouse effect is from water vapor. This is a short and definitive description of the greenhouse effect. It is impossible to make a system in saturation such as earth's greenhouse effect have further effect by increasing its active elements. Global warming cannot be due to greenhouse gases because the system they are active in is already in saturation from the strong greenhouse gas water vapor. If earth's greenhouse effect were not in saturation then there would be huge changes in the greenhouse effect temperature retention all over the world based on how much humidity was in the air. This would be extremely exaggerated if it were true, which it is not, that some organizations cite as 33°C of average increased temperature for the greenhouse effect, where the scientific recognized average is 5.55°C. At 1% tropospheric average water vapor and 0.04% CO2: (1.00% water vapor) / (0.04% carbon dioxide) = 25 times more concentration of water vapor than than carbon dioxide. Water vapor CO2e=18 X 25 ---> 450 times more temperature forcing for water vapor than carbon dioxide. Even if earth's greenhouse effect were not in saturation CO2 would have no significant effect on it. The United Nation's IPCC science report in its back pages acknowledges that it is NOT in-fact discussing greenhouse gases in a manor constructive to the discussion of global warming by a legal statement of data transparency that it took its greenhouse gas samples at 20,000 meters altitude and only that one altitude! There is no greenhouse radiant energy more than 20 meters from the radiating surface, typically the earth. That IPCC data transparency statement of 20,000 meter altitude gas sampling is acknowledging it is not dealing with active greenhouse gases or earth greenhouse effect in a manor constructive to the discussion of global warming. This is the same marketing practice that takes place when a beverage is labeled "All Natural Fruit Flavors" and then in the ingredients it tells the truth "contains no actual fruit juices" Global warming has been paused at about 1°C since the early 1990s. Global warming was reported at 1.1°C in 1991 and 1.06°C in 2022. The physical mechanics of the greenhouse effect is that a certain band width of far inferred radiation from surface interacts loosely with the lumpy electrostatic fields of greenhouse gas molecules typified by gas molecules of largely differing sized atoms such as H2O water vapor and CH4 methane. CO2 carbon dioxide is almost inert as a greenhouse gas. The diatomic gas molecules O2 and N2 have no interaction with greenhouse radiant energy. Once the greenhouse radiant energy has been absorbed by greenhouse gases they do not reradiate the energy as their main heat transfer. Heat transfer is by convection i.e. gas molecules bumping into each other.
I would add that the outbound long wave radiation, that is required to interact with CO2, IS VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT. therefore there is no OLR to interact with CO2
It's summer in Africa now and it's the first summer I've ever had to wear a jersey on most days. Tropical sugar cane frozen solid this past winter for the first time ever here - how do you explain that?
