Another comment if I may. Where I live in north central British Columbia, grouse hunting is quite different from that in the heather moors of Great Britain. It's the ruffed grouse we are after and it has a different life style and habitat requirement than the red grouse. As a good friend and frequent grouse hunting partner says, "It's not very bright, easy to hunt, easy to clean and tastes delicious. A bird born to be eaten."
Congratulations on making really watchable, reasoned and emotionally positive contribution to the debate over grouse shooting. Getting the wider picture across to a wider audience this way (and not just preaching to the choir) is vital if we are going to preserve the richness of managed uplands for future generations and go some way to heal the rift that those opposed to shooting seem intent on opening up between nature-lovers who don't shoot and nature-lovers who do. I know you can't cover everything in a half-hour film (and a half hour is the right length, I think), but I'd love to see you take this further in a future film. Perhaps get down into the heather and the bogs to reveal the diversity of the vegetation that makes up a moorland, get onto a well-managed moor in May and be deafened by the calls of waders, and descend through the lower slopes and their native shrub and woodland plantings to the valley bottoms and reveal how water management on the moors is improving water quality and reviving rivers, creating ecologically vibrant riverbanks and underwater habitats in places formerly scoured by flooding. Perhaps invite an ornithologist and an entomologist and a botanist and a hydrologist along to react, as non-shooters, to what they are seeing. You might ask the key question more bluntly too: if shooting income is choked off, are the opponents of shooting prepared to commit themselves to paying many hundreds of thousands of pounds, decade after decade, to maintain these rich habitats; and if they aren't prepared to put their money where their mouth is, how else do they propose to secure their future? Their answer, I expect, is the nebulous concept of "re-wilding", in which case it would be interesting to see how they address the evidence that previous attempts at re-wilding have led to the loss of jobs, the eviction of local people, rampant wildfires, mass starvation and plummeting biodiversity. Perhaps after a decades-long cataclysm of this sort nature would indeed find the balance they claim, but how much would be lost along the way, and where exactly would people fit in? After all, to be fully wild, human access would have to be almost exclusively virtual, except for servicing the webcams and surveillance drones. Looking forward to the next one, but for now, kudos to you, the NGO and all your interviewees.
Refreshing to listen to an environmental scientist who wants to take emotion out of science and base decisions on fact and not on heavily skewed data and statistics designed to arrive at a pre-determined result to please politicians and environmental campaigners.
It was fascinating to hear, throughout the interview Jonny was in a state of shock at how objective the Gentleman Doctor was! Unfortunately facts are a hard sell...
Amazing and inspiring video and u came to nidderdale 😮 what a shame I would have really liked to meet you 😅 but anyways welll done for this video I really enjoyed it 👍🏼
Wow!! Great story. Thanks for producing this. More non shooters need to see what a managed land really means and the benefits for all. Keep up the good work!
Reducing wildfire fuel outside of bogs is best done by grazing - in this case browsing. It produces mosaics of high patchiness. As a professional in that case I am unsure wehter this could work here and which species to choose. Maybe Muskox and Red Deer (small dosis of course)?
Not a shooter but have run a lot of moorland mountainbike events with Landowners agreement, over several decades. I concur with the sentiments above, but we had a Keeper come down from Scotland. Sacked for killing raptors. We have everything we should have including Hen Harriers. There's a reason Kites are doing badly in Scotland...... As a river surveyor by far the most pristine and fecund stream I have seen is on a sheepless part of the Cheviot moors near Wooler, followed by the Eppynt Army Range locally. Drench is a killer.
It’s sad how hunters are demonized, the idea of not hunting is very new to humans. Taking humans off the top of the food chain will have its own repercussions.
As an American, who considers myself as conservationist who upland bird hunts, I have been confused on the issue with Red Grouse shooting in England- I found this very interesting and informative. The moorlands are beautiful, I hope you can retain the Grouse hunting traditions and continue to increase overall biodiversity.
Well done. One criticism - you say the moors are managed just for an elite few; most of the people who work there, from the keepers to the beaters really enjoy their work there and would greatly miss it were it stopped and not just for financial reasons.
Anti- hunters stand a chance of being shot here in the USA. A few years ago, some anti-hunters dressed as bears in New Jersey. The “idea” was that hunters wouldn’t be able to distinguish real bears, from real idiots. Needless to say, hunters were quite prepared to shot anything that looked like a bear, and the anti-hunters had a change of heart. I live in Pennsylvania, and deer are beyond overpopulated. It only takes one deer strike with your car, to turn an anti-hunter into a rabid deer slayer.
I know sweet fanny adam's about moorland management, nor best practise for bio diversity but I guess if it ain't broke don't fix and it seems thus far we have no empirical data to the contrary. Yet I am suspicious! I would like to see a moorland that is fire managed but left fallow so to speak for 10 years with a species count thereafter... My instinct suggests that the industry, instead of trying to provide grouse shooting for the masses should instead keep it a preserve of the rich. - Maybe even more so than it is now! I would be very happy to see grouse in restaurants at 200 quid a pop rather than 50 because it would imply a reduced economy of scale and remove the pressure from gamekeepers to preserve high grouse numbers at the expence of other species especially predators. I would be excluding myself as am not a member of the fine and dandy yet that's fine by me because the end game is more important than the one at the end of a barrel sometimes.
Very high quality video, informative and a pleasure to watch. You should be proud of this one! As shooters, it is impossible to be completely neutral on the matter but this documentary is extremely well balanced.
[From the USA] People need to see how food in grocery stores "markets" are farmed and slaughtered. Then they need to see how wild game is harvested. There's no conversation. The gun conversation is a completely different thing for you all than it is here... I also cannot even comprehend the caste thing you have there.
An excellent, well balanced and beautifully filmed video. And you didn't call Chris Packham a .................I'd better not; my daughters will read this.
Interesting documentry. Most gamekeepers who manage these estates do a good job and actually benefit some wildlife. Shame theres a minority who lack any brains and destroy protected species
Thanks hugely for this - as a Canadian, it's of interest to see where developed countries which are facing these issues, including dramatically increased incidences of wildfires that we are also facing here in North America, are going, and what we can learn. I really, really appreciate this video - one of the very best you've done that I've seen.
Hunters are the greatest advocate and supporter of these birds without the management of wildlife and the economic support the birds would cease to exist!
Stephen Mawle 8 seconds ago Great piece looking at the major issues. Well done. Ref Exclusivity of grouse shooting - At Coverhead we have for the last 8 years run courses designed to introduce new guns to the 'mystic' of grouse shooting. The course is run over two days. Day one involves a moorland visit and lecture looking at moorland ecology and management followed by a simulated grouse practise with instruction from our purpose built grouse practice range. Day 2 allows participants to put what they have learnt into practise with an affordable fixed price driven grouse day. Since developing these courses we have introduced over 200 new guns to Grouse shooting.
This was a fantastic watch! Got to say, before watching this I was of the opinion that the moors should be left for nature to claim them back and this facts based vid challenged my opinion! I've learnt a hell of a lot from this video. Bravo
Jonny, what a spectacular feature film. If only this could be shown via mainstream media to the masses! Age is big factor in regard to the stigma of game shooting, I'm a young man as are you but sadly most others in our generation are quick to jump on the 'Anti' bandwagon. Half of these 'Antis' have likely never spent more than a day in the British countryside and tend to gain their propaganda from social media and far left activists whom have a broader agenda. That leads onto the second biggest factor imo, yes the game shooting scene (particularly grouse shooting) is only really accessible via the elite and wealthy.. but how else to people expect the funds to be raised to manage such vast portions of countryside? Personally I feel like there's an underlying hatred there for the historic upper-class and these activists care more about abolishing a handful of wealthy elite than they do about saving our countryside. One can't exist without the other!
If you want to know the truth talk to the professional this documentary purely shows this Peckham is just to obnoxious and does not listen to other people’s voices and takes in on bored he just dismiss it
This is an excellent synopsis. It is interesting to hear wildfire described as a catastrophe. It is only a catastrophe for humans. If habitat wasn't so fragmented, such events would be important to regeneration of habitat on a larger scale. Like in so many places, the real problem is that there are just too many people.
I think the he number of people is perhaps sustainable, but only if we lived in a very different way. The UK pop has grown 20% in 100 or so years but housing has quadrupled. We simple use to much floor space.
Great Video guy's, If only more people, whether supporters or not would watch films like this, then maybe they would have a better understanding of the benefits of grouse moor management both financially for the local communties and scientifically for world.
Well done very interesting keep it up. It is rare that the passion of people for whom this is a vocation is represented and most specifically their care of the wider environment other than the grouse which is seen as elitist and an easy headline for the tabloid press. I have never shot a grouse or been on a grouse shoot other than to watch (I don’t have the means with two young children) however I ate my first one sat on my fathers knee when I was 8 and it is something I look forward to ever year. It is vital this is preserved in a caring and sustainable manner. As always tgs an accessible and entertaining piece of video.
Wow John just wow as someone who grew up in the city you’ve put a very partial and balanced video out which wouldn’t look out of place on mainstream television
Brilliant programme Johnny, I wish more people could get to see it. Wonderfull and amazing that so few people are spending their lives working in a way that brings such massive benefits. Keep it up lads!!!!!!
Absolutely brilliant video . Its about time this sort of content is aired on mainstream TV to EDUCATE THE UNEDUCATED about our industry and its benefits to all wildlife and it habitats .well done to the NGO (I am proud to be a member) and well done to TGS for fronting and delivering such brilliant content
Great piece looking at the major issues. Well done. Ref Exclusivity of grouse shooting - At Coverhead we have for the last 8 years run courses designed to introduce new guns to the 'mystic' of grouse shooting. The course is run over two days. Day one involves a moorland visit and lecture looking at moorland ecology and management followed by a simulated grouse practise with instruction from our purpose built grouse practice range. Day 2 allows participants to put what they have learnt into practise with an affordable fixed price driven grouse day. Since developing these courses we have introduced over 200 new guns to Grouse shooting.
Very well put together piece on the systems that create an environment for the grouse, the filmography is extremely nicely done. I don’t live in the UK so am unaware of the undercurrent involving this topic of shooting grouse, I thought the woodsman gave perhaps the best balanced viewpoint, the environment is being well managed for at least a few species, and that without the public paying far more taxes there’s not a better practical alternative. Having seen some land returned to its “wild”state here it just becomes a weed infested mess and not the idealistic paradise proffered. There leaves a few questions somewhat open .... Is this on the whole a sport for the wealthy, I expect there will be exceptions but is this a majority reality? and just what is the expected cost per day per bird or however it’s priced? I’m assuming that these are all private properties? Here in Australia there are no rights that I’m aware of for the public to use private property other than varying river title rights ( which are somewhat hidden as it doesn’t suit the landowners ) so public usage is not an issue regardless of what the landowner does. What rights does the public have over private land? The moor landscape seems to go for miles and miles, how extensive are these areas, perhaps as a % of overall land and even proportional to areas. Finally sadly for hunters, there is now a proportion of the population ( majority) now removed from contact with a rural lifestyle where people killed their own food and understood the practical realities of life, and have adopted an ideological point of view that cannot become reality. But that may only be understood once it’s too late. Anyways I’ve enjoyed your videos, keep up the good work.... any chance you could do a video on parallel stocks vs sporting stock for sporting clays ( bit off topic I know)
To approach some of the questions we left open: Grouse shooting starts at £150 a day each for walked up day with an expectation of a bird or two each. It does top out at a lot of money - £180/brace on days of a few hundred brace - this adds up! It is accessible at just about any level, like cars or houses. A lot of the land has had 'right to roam' access put upon it, or has many rights of way across it. So they do at least have the right to go on it and impact it in some way. Its hard to get the exact figures on land coverage but grouse dedicated moorland could be around 3-5% of the land use. I will get to the stock video at some point, and try and do it justice.
really great balanced video, I like the fact that you didn't attack anyone with your comments, you weren't aggressive, you looked for scientific evidence. AND... most importantly... if you didn't know something, didn't feel you could make a comment, you said so. we in the shooting community may think we know everything about conservation... but until we have the scientific evidence from proper studies... we can only hope what we've been doing is the best option.
As a raptor biologist and falconer- I appreciate you taking this topic on - nice work. Speaking of grouse, you should experience the prairie grouse species of North America. Happy to help line you out.
Well done John but I think it should be basc doing this kind of films to promote ourselves as nature loving as all hunters and shooters I know are. Thanks
Fair, Concise, clear, informative. Awesome to have young a persons perspective on shooting as well. The world is changing and shooting does need to shift with it to survive. Very impressive filming and real scientific data based information. Most importantly, rewilding is a matter of perception, each individual person has their own idea of it as for much of conservation on the whole, really good that that was highlighted. There is no actual strict definition for rewilding. Hats off, best report ive seen on the topic
Thankyou John. The variety of opinion is a great thing, but not when that opinion doesn't take facts into account! The main thing i learnt from Martin is that if you follow rewilding to its natural conclusion it means renouncing most technology and healthcare!
[From the USA] Are these lands not public/government owned and managed? If they're not public/government, why the fuck do random city dwellers have any voice?
Close ur eyes and imagine what unmanaged land with unmanaged human interaction actually looks like...I suggest the issue as usual is confusion over the facts..cheers
An excellent piece. Great production quality. Good to hear level-headed, practical input from experts and folks who live with the moors, it shows that you can be passionate about a subject without being emotive. It may be considered niche but it would be good to see this on network TV. Perhaps a longer edit with more of the antis side included to demonstate the type of partially informed voice we're up against.
Country sports, field sports, bloodsports call it what you like. It is here to stay and is a part of human nature. Do not give in to weak people who know noting of the real world. Stand your ground together
@@colstoun4762 stop caring if they get offended. Your attitude is why those weak people will get what they want. Stand up for yourselves and stop being pc. This liberal lets all hug and talk about it attitude will eventually lead to a ban on all sport hunting in the uk
Jonny, Sash and the TGS Outdoors family - just watched this again since its first release. Some of your finest work - the cinematography, photography, music as well as - of course - the balanced and rationale viewpoints of those in the grouse industry. Excellent documentary.
Good stuff, well done. You want to do a thing, you take care of it - but in this age you must also make public that you take care of it. A little rough on the documentary skills (a sound byte from someone in support of "rewilding" and their logic, and a touch better interviewing), but looking forward to more content in this style as new issues inevitably crop up.
The Gun Shop Thanks the more videos on conservation etc shows the anti hunting community the work gamekeepers shoot mangers etc spend a lot of there time working on keeping the countryside vibrant 👍👍
As a beater on grouse in Gods country and beater on estates in Hampshire now for partridge and pheasant my admiration always went out to the keepers, even the old grumpy ones. Some of the best times of my 70 yr life have been on the shoot, being a stop more often now gives time for watchful awareness of where I am, G.O.D. The Great Outdoors, we are so blessed to still have people with heartfelt stewardship of This Sceptred Isle.
Showing me deer, fly casting, and nature in the first 44 seconds of this video,.........I'm listening and watching. 6:01......Without, just like what the antis want.............it would be a wasteland. The antis see and live their philosophy but never go into the real world. 'Don't confuse me with the facts.' One must live with the seasons and be there with the animals through those seasons. Then you MAY be able to see some of the life decisions. It is not pretty. It is not what mainstream humanity in your country want to see. I blame it on the effect of Walt Disney and the animators that made animals like humans. Animals are NOT like humans. As soon as you get to a wilderness area, you see the actual lives of the animals in thought and deed. When I travel to the Northwestern states of the US, I carry on me a 357 Magnum as my protection from the hunting pack in winter. I may be in the woods to hunt Hungarian Partridge or Fools hens, but I always keep my eyes and ears open for the sounds of the pack. They are always out there. My load-out is my sp101 in 357 Mag.., my Franchi Falconet in 12 ga. , and my Savage Model 99C in 308. All three are easily carried and looked after. All are bulletproof and have no problems. From the upper peninsula of Michigan to Sue Aikens camp above the Arctic Circle, this load-out never changes. I have had five decades to live and be humiliated or eaten and this has served me well. Wolverine thought he could eat me. Four mile run. Holed-up in a ravine and waited. Savage 99C is very accurate. Took his head off at 110 yards. He now keeps MY head warm as a ruff around my parka snout. Enough here. Not about Grouse shooting problem.
What is it in the mentality of some that causes them to enjoy killing living things. If you shoot one grouse and eat it yourself, that's another story. But to spend a day slaughtering hundreds of birds for "sport" ...
That is a very interesting topic. One I’m afraid I can’t answer concisely enough in a comment, and I shall put together a video on it. For now though check out our video on whether it’s ok to enjoy hunting.
Is standing beside a shooting stick, or in a dugout on a moor, shooting tens of tame Pheasants or wild Grouse actually classed as hunting? And why do people keep turning up plastic bags of discarded, shot game birds in roadside copses during the 'season', if these are part of agricultural production intended for the food chain?
I am only interested in the facts, no axe to grind. All the up to date scientific data shows that the hare is not a significant wildlife reservoir for ticks, it's a tiny percentage. The wildlife reservoir is deer but by far the most important reservoir is sheep. Why therefore do estate owners and gamekeepers still conduct an annual slaughter of thousands of hare? I would like an informed, honest answer please.
I may not be the right person to talk to about this, but i shall offer the best answer i can. On many grouse moors in areas where blue hares live, the management that benefits the grouse also benefits the hares. The population is therefore larger than on many unmanaged places. I once spoke to a man from near Inverness who is a keeper, and on his estate they have been taking the same bag of hares off every year for the last 100 years. This to me is very sustainable. Should they be shooting where there is a decline - of course not! Maintaining a healthy population of anything sometimes requires population management. The tick question i can only answer in so far as - if the hare population grows over capacity, the overall are population would suffer, and i presume that healthy hares carry less ticks than unhealthy hares. I would need to talk to people much wiser on the subject than I, and come back to you.
@@tgsoutdoors HI Thats what im trying to say it is against the law to kill Bop imangine if it wasn't there would be no Raptors at all now thats disgusting..........
