I don’t always agree with mike. this is the first video I’ve watched of his in years. That said - Mikey knows his speakers. That’s first. And second - he is 100% right about this. So if you care about your maggies sounding their best, listen to what he is telling you. I’ve listened to Maggies for decades. they’re measured in a completely different way than box speakers. Before getting this kit - TUNE YOUR ROOMS. That is first. Then properly place your magnepans. Then pair with the right electronics. they like power, headroom and bi or even tri-amping(depending on the model). The founder of Magnepan patented the magneplanar design and for decades, nothing could come close to Magnepan clarity at anywhere near the pricepoint. That’s one of the reasons they are legendary. This is where mikey’s experience and knowledge shines. he knows good sound and is spot on. Good video. Thank you for putting this out there for the many who just don’t know.
Mikey, relax. I do in fact know what I am doing. I have worked on a LOT of Magnepan models. Yes, the bass panels are a little different left to right by how they are supported, but the crossovers are the same on both speakers. The tweeters are also the same on both speakers. The reason they beam is because they allow the drivers to overlap on top of each other. So moving left or right causes out of phase cancellations. It is not a positive attribute. Allowing each driver to play in their own range really opens up the sound stage. I do agree with you on one point though. It is not just about the measurements. Removing the steel parts from the signal path and stepping up to top level parts really improves clarity, detail levels, imaging, sound stage depth, sound stage layering, etc. That's a fact. Maybe instead of speculating about the result you should give one of our upgrades a try. We've sold over 100 Magnepan upgrade kits and our customers REALLY love them. So we are either improving an audio experience for 100's of people or brain washing them into thinking we did. I personally don't think brain washing 100's of people is possible.
Well said Danny, I just replied earlier that I dont agree with him and he went bananas. He just said in his LIVE he is just defending Magnepan. I hope he sobers up. I like Mikee but not on this one.
You are literally brainwashed about the shape of our world and brag about your ignorance. A little too ironic. I can educate you so you don't appear foolish by repeating lies. Deal?
Hi Danny, Ive got no beef with you serving people which are unhappy with their cheap speakers. I just heard this mod is under $300 and Im amazed you even bother with even 1000 sales for peanuts in profit, so hats off to you in that regard.. Removing the steel parts is a no brainer and I sell a kit for that as well, but I dont slag Magnepan and cast shade on their $1K made in USA Planar magnetic speaker. If I ran that company, Id snip this product from the roster.. No need for it.. Look what happens, people give it shit after you hand make it with engineered shortcomings just so people with little money can enjoy planar magnetic magic... Screw them... Pony up $2500 if you want planar magic.. Its still a retardedly low price for a pair of planars.. Im simply defending Magnepan, because you and clearly your followers act as if something is wrong with them.. So Im here in defense of this great brand. I appreciate the offer to try a cheap speaker mod, but its honestly not within my scope of interest. In closing I think it would have been more respectful of Magnepans efforts to applaud them for what they have created, then go in to how you feel you can change them to better fit your taste, rather than frame the speakers up as inadequate from the factory... Just my .2c
@@freone111bananas ? Did I swear at you ? Call you names ? Then it's not bananas.. what's up with the butt kissing here anyways. ? So let us know your reason for thinking it's acceptable to slag Magnepan for bringing your ass a $500 handmade planar magnetic speaker ? 24 years sober here pal...
Hey Mikey. You know me, we chatted and smoked a cigar together, we are on good terms. So don't take this message the wrong way. Should Danny have measured and listened to both left and right channels for his upgrades? I believe so... especially considering that he claims that he always does this with his own designs to improve the "intangible" qualities in loudspeakers. But you have to also understand that it’s a compromise to keep cost low. Should he be measuring below 200hz? Absolutely on his own designs. On the upgrade kits, no… ports, fs, cabinet are what they are and I agree it is predictable/they are what they are. Do I wish it was a more finished job? Yes but its a kit that they spend maybe less than half an hour on versus their own speaker kit line With this being said, this is a critique and not a criticism. It is something I wish Danny did as a company that he currently does not do. These were based on first hand experience of me visiting GR-Research even despite the disagreement we had initially. Now did we agree on everything after my visit? No of course not. But at least I have the correct information based on first hand experience on what I liked and didn't like and I relayed that to my viewers for their own discretion. Now... fact of the matter is that this video you made is a low blow with little to no fact checking. First of all... if you are going to call someone out, call them out. Say there name and link the video you have a problem with... Danny is not some idiot on the internet trying to "fix" magnepans that he has no clue about, he has worked on Magnepans before and have even been contracted by them on some projects. Is Danny's upgrades wrong? Does Magnepan see it as a problem? Because I don't see magnepan on a video explaining why and how Danny's mods/upgrades are wrong. I only see you (for the lack of better words) parroting what little they told you. RU-vid, Facebook, Instagram.... it's a free platform for any company to stand on and explain/educate. You tell me where the problem lies... a manufacturer unwilling to publicly explain and educate why someone's mods are wrong/problematic/where the misunderstanding is... OR Danny trying to sell kits in his videos explaining his kit product thoroughly and convincingly.
Hi Jay, were good, and we can talk direct to each other without getting butt hurt. (I would hope) So let me respond frankly.. First off you are here on my channel coming to Dannys aid.. I guess either you are trying to appease Danny for some reason or my post actually bothered you. Ill assume its the latter. So you are doing exactly what I did. Voicing your opinion about a perceived low blow. I however, dont think its right of me to do this on Dannys channel, because then Im polluting his audience that may love him well... So I do it on my own platform, so my peeps can hear it. My people come to my channel for this type of brutal honesty regardless if its negative. They can take it. So to me, in my style, this is the proper way to do it.. I couldnt disagree more with calling peoples names into question, because honestly, it could have been anyone with any company that would get this response. The issue was with slagging Magnepans entry level (which is a freaking triumph) as inadequate. That to ME is a low blow, and being more of an Old Testament guy, I get the other eye instead of turning the cheek. Seems you may be similar based on this response here. As far as fact checking, how about talking with the LRS+ Designers and asking them why their speakers looked like shit on a graph ? Id say thats about as solid as one could be. This is where I became aware of WHY they measure strangely, and for WHAT result. So Danny is changing them to his philosophy, by CHANGING the crossovers for a different response. So as long as we are coaching each other on how we thing others should roll, let me engage. Danny should have given Magnepan respect for what they pulled off. Something he has not been able to do, despite all his professional expertise.. Making a speaker that sells like wildfire. The he could say, despite this speaker outselling anything hes made, that he thinks he can do it better, so hes going to make them sound like Danny Magnepans. Furthermore that it takes the end user totally voiding thier warranty, taking a stab at something that unless they have strong experience soldering and assembling could fully leave them in the lurch with a boat anchor. Also, that the speaker could then be worth LESS on the used market, based on WHO performed the mod. and how it could be verified. The way he came off slagging the factory speaker and allowing this rhetoric to foster in the responses deserved a punch in the trunks back and so I did it. If people dont like it, dont watch my channel.. I know why my people come. So the problem is not with Danny selling mods or Danny even. Its with slagging a speaker that is exalted. I have a good idea of the LRS+ sales numbers and its ridiculously high.... Its a brilliant design by a non greedy company that sells to the "everyman", as Jim Winey used to say. Bravo..
@@OCDHIFiGuy First of all Mikey, we are cool. A civil conversation isn't hurting my feelings. Nothing another cigar session can't fix. but cmon Mikey, appease Danny? You know me by now, I don't try to appease anyone. It's funny cuz danny emails me and you comment here, nobody is happy by my mid-stance. Yes it is the latter... quite frankly, I was bothered by your post but not by what you may think. I was mostly bothered by the lack of real information in the video and makes me into question why Magnepan isn't putting out this information with evidenced data instead of you parroting this very surface level argument. Do I have to be invited into you comment section now? knock knock can I comment? You put out a video on youtube, not patreon. It's a free platform for people to comment ya? Did you knock on Danny's door to ask if you can make a video based on his video? Logic escapes me on that one. Were you or were you not referring to Danny's video on the magnepans? What the hell do you mean "it could have been anyone with any company that would get this response." Another logic that escapes me. You think I haven't talked to Magnepan? cmon... "Brutally honest" about what exactly? On the information fed to you by the manufacture who won't put out their own claims? Last time we talked, we talked about how you should be fact checking your statements and not simply parroting what you've been told, as you've put words in my mouth before (which you apologized for so we are good). Have you measured the speakers yourself or have data from Magnepan to go by to support your argument in your videos? Nope. You even dwelled for a few min in the beginning on who invented planar/ribbon panels! Google my friend! The only thing I agree with you is that Danny could have been more respectful in his videos as could have you. Old testament kinda guy? Careful there, you might not have any more eyes to fight your battles! Anyways come back to me when you have a sound argument based on logic and we can chat it over a cigar.
@@Jayiyagi Really ? we gotta do this here..?? Okie dokie... This was not an argument video, it was my opinion. My opinion was, some RU-vid guy is a dick for slagging LRS+ as being inadequate when its a freaking gift to our community. You want to argue that Jay ? Its my opinion and it will stand. My video was not to make a case for the Magnepans having engineered shortcomings, which is where you seem to want to take this conversation. My beef is with Danny Slagging the LRS+ as inadequate from the factory and fostering a reply chain of people talking shit about Magnepan like the company has no engineering there. Magnepan is far more successful than either Danny or I, and they put out a $1K handmade planar magnetic that has sold exponentially. If Danny is so "badass" at speaker design, why is there not a 1 year waiting list for his speaker ??? Is it better to be "right" via science or is it better to have the heart of the people behind the brand, resulting in an exponentially more successful business ? You decide. If Danny could have a speaker as successful as LRS+ , he would not be selling upgrade kits. I never mentioned his name as id smoke any fool saying the same shit. Does not matter whom. Why does that defy logic for you ? He came on here saying his name, but most my viewers dont know him. So why broadcast names ? Its unimportant who.. its the story thats in question.. LRS+ at $1K is inadequate.. Bullshit. Its not at all.. Is he a bad guy, no. Is he doing anything wrong selling mods? no. Do DIY mods work ? Yes. Does calling LRS+ Inadequate cause me to make a video denouncing that video, yes.... so what ? It did make him sound like a D bag and I stand by that. That was the point of my video.. You thought my point was to make a case for split speaker tuning ?? LOL. You really wanted to hear what you wanted to hear.. Im on my channel doing my thing.. Im not going to anyone elses channel to start shit. I do it right here with my own people. Again, I know what my people want from me, and its not what you do, nor what Danny does.. I stay in my lane and do things on my channel. I dont go to other peoples channel to question them in their own pursuits. Clearly you think you do things the "right" way and I do them the "wrong" way.. LOL. Think you'll get traction with that here ? not likely.. Last time we talked it was about you getting a preamp on loan from me from what I remember, as well as a certain jackass up in Canada that's weaseled into our industry. LOL, should I call his name out here in public you think ? Sorry, not my style.. Brutally honest is "anyone that talks down about LRS+ is a total clown that has no grip of reality". Thats the real.. But it needs context.. So there's the video. Arguments about $270 modifications on $1,000 speakers are so infinitesimal it would be a total waste of a good cigar. Im writing this out of respect as I normally would just delete and ignore stupid shit like this. Its a nerd swordfight.. Thanks for your opinion, however. Im just going to keep doing me just like I always have. Ill still have the cigar , we just cant talk about Audio.. ;-)
Just installed the crossover mod in my LRS+ today. Listening as I type this with a vintage Sansui Alpha amp powering them and a Rhythmik sub. Sounds sublime.
depends what you mean by iron core are we talking about iron slats or we talk about a ferrite type of material there is a difference. it depends where it is in the crossover the iron core? if it is in parallel keep the iron core, if it's in series get rid of the iron core possibly.
I can tell you that when Magnepan compared them in blind tests years ago, they could hear no difference. That's no guarantee that there isn't one, of course, and they offer air core inductors in their more expensive versions (but not the LRS+, which is their entry-level speaker). I'd be curious about ferrous terminals -- I've never heard of anyone doing a blind test. I'm not wild though about using steel on gold. Their potentials are very different.
So I purchased Danny’s crossover and the speaker is now one of the best speakers I’ve ever heard. It is so good I decided to go full bore and purchase all super high end parts. Honestly I probably should have just invested that money into the 3.7i and done his mod for that
@@t.j.bennett6454 Not worth it! The main difference in Danny's mod is the change in the XO characteristics, and he's already used high quality parts. I don't think you'll gain much if anything by adding super high quality parts. And yeah, it's easy to get so caught up in the upgrade game that you pour money into them when you could get a lot more by moving one model up.
I agree with you on Magnepan being the experts and also with their tuning of each stereo pair. I argue that whether two identical crossover networks either stock or modified would still equal one speaker tilted higher and one tilted lower. Would think so? But you’re right still not tuned correctly or by the experts.
Do you think turning in into an active crossover speaker would make a big difference……I do…….so there is room for improvement. I think you modified a pair at one time . that “ guy” is not a bad guy ……he’s just doing his thing. Kudos to both of you and thank you both
They come from the manufacturer with the same crossover values in each speaker I know I have had several pair of Magnepans . I can tell you that just replacing the crossover components with the same values but better quality ( especially the coil to an air core) makes a world of difference in the accuracy of the sound. I could hear the smearing in the upper midrange caused by the iron core inductor. I actually modified one speaker at a time so that I could compare the original coil and the new air core coil. Only after doing that did I go ahead and order one of his new crossovers. To me it made a big difference in the clarity of the sound.
That's great. Upgrading existing values is one thing. Telling people Magnepan does a shit job then offering the "magic pill" is lame... we all know about upgrading parts. Duh.. but he's slagging the brand when they are FAR more successful than he is..
Magnepan now offers X upgrade to several of their speakers, and the Plus on the LRS is for an improved stand. These improvements seem to imply that their speakers are built to a price point, the heck with that last bit of fidelity. I mostly agree with you, but it seems Magnepan finally recognizes that there is room for improvement, at leadt with crossovers and their stands.
Absolutely. They are built to a price point. And there is no better speaker value on the planet in stock form. Just like a base Mustang or Corvette can be upgraded, so can Magnepan. ,-)
I watched the video from Danny and had the question how could they just "miss" this much stuff. It didn't make sense. I was a little disturbed by the plate being magnetised but don't know how much that and the fuse affect the sound. Perhaps there could be some benefits of using better quality crossover components but it would add to the price of the speaker.
Fuses add measurable non-linear distortion at high levels. But speakers distort at high levels. When Magnepan did a blind test of 3.7's with and without the fuses bypassed, they couldn't hear a difference. Of course, you can try it for yourself, if you've used them for a while and know that you never push them so hard that you blow fuses!
Let's just say the mod sounds great. That was not my point. Slagging the thousand dollar pair of planar magnetic made in usa by one of the most successful speaker brands was messed up. He's trying to fear buyers that they made a mistake.
Excellent points that make sense, even without the explanation from Magnepan! All speaker manufacturers (audio manufacturers) devote significant time and effort to "tune" their speakers (equipment) to achieve a specific type of sound (within the price point they want to achieve). This is not, necessarily, the result of poor engineering knowledge. It is more typically the result of conscious compromises between achieving a "desired / target sound" and the relative cost of the parts to achieve that sound. And... the "desired / target sound" of the manufacturer, may be different than the sound preferred by the customer (e.g. neutral vs warm, detailed vs smooth, etc., etc.). That is more typically the reason, that the sound of a set of speakers (or any component), may sound great to some persons compared to the measured performance of those speakers, which may not look great to the "engineer." For example, the sound of tubes (with their distortion) versus solid state, with less distortion. Which is also why... for many audiophiles... the sound they prefer varies from the measured sound. I suppose in the absolute sense - the "perfect sound" - would be a sound produced by a set of components that would "measure" identically to the sound produced by the live performance in the same setting. But, there are so many variables involved that seldom occurs, and is difficult (if not impossible) to achieve from setting to setting, anyway. Especially, if the ultimate "test" is what sound the customer prefers. However, would you agree that, in principal, the sound might be improved by replacing the components in each respective stock crossover, with higher quality parts with the same values? Given that higher quality parts, in principal, should improve the sound. Though, I suppose they might have a different sound that the listener may, or may not, prefer (e.g. warmer, colder, airy, neutral, etc, etc.) - as noted above.... And... that the effort to upgrade the parts in the crossovers, may or may not be, a successful effort... and may be a difficult and frustrating effort... in an attempt to achieve a desired sound by the customer. All of which... is also why... the opinions of audiophiles of various components... may vary greatly from component to component. And... why active crossovers, and EQ, make a lot of sense to permit each customer to "tune" the sound to that they prefer.
@@randycochones5965 Maggies love active crossovers and bi-amping, but if you're going to spend that money, you're probably better off using the money to buy a more expensive Maggie.
I seen that video yesterday. The whole off axis measurements thing has always baffled me. If I'm spending big bucks on a system I am sure as hell going to be sitting down in the sweet spot. If I'm in the kitchen or another room I could care less of off axis listening. Just makes me want to finish what I'm doing faster and get back in the sweet spot. The magnetic parts in the speaker wire connection and fuse I think he's spot on though and upgraded parts in the crossover.
But even in the sweet spot you hear a lot of off axis sound reflecting from the walls, ceiling and floor. Indeed, the sweet spot is sometimes where the direct and reflected sounds are equal in magnitude.
I completed this upgrade, and here is my opinion. The tweeter upgrade section seems to work well as it was playing too wide of a range, and most of that strange positioning -phasing seems to be gone. As for the lower frequency panel, the results were not so good.The filter dropped the output considerably, and for an inefficient speaker like this it isn't ideal. Playing the lower frequency panel alone, full range sounded amazing and brought back the Maggie magic, but playing with the tweeters, the highs were too much. I'm in the process of testing different inductors on the lower frequency, so I'll see how that goes.
I'm not arguing that it doesn't. I'm saying not everyone is gonna like Danny's Kool Aid, and knowing that, he should give Magnepan proper respect. They have done light years better than GR has. But he made them out to be dum dums.. not cool. Finally, this not my area of interest insofar as listening...
@@tysonn4736 Thing is Im not saying the mod does not work, Im saying there is nothing wrong with factory Magnepan, regardless what anyone tries to frame up...
I'm glad that there's some push back to Danny Ritchie, finally. It's interesting how I was asking him questions debating his methods and he just snowballed me on certain answers. His premise, I guess is, "just trust me, I'm the expert". If I were in the speaker biz, I wouldn't do that. I trust YOUR ears more because what may work for ME may not work for YOU! But...who knows, maybe Danny Ritchie bats 100 every time? Maybe he's got the secret sauce for speakers? I'll never know until I hear before and after a/b roll. I kept telling him that. Maybe I just have to get on a jet, fly over to Texas to test before and after on the mod?
@@OCDHIFiGuyToo mechanical an approach for me...I think. Still don't know his complete process for measuring/engineering; he apparently keeps this semi-private. After talking to my engineer friend who worked at Ampex back in the day, you're caught trying to find a balance between measuring and hearing to get the x-over points sonically correct.
well GR might have made a whoops?... in general its nice to have them the same, but it would be nice if he did left and right. and both together. since there benefit is based on both playing ! thats the whole idea
Well said. Maggies are not box speakers, the same way a Cadilac is not a wheelbarrow. The LRS is an INTRODUCTION to planar sound, they are not their top-end products. The two things they SHOULD do is upgrade on ALL their speakers are the crossover parts and connectors.
Have you actually heard the GR mods done on magnepans let alone anything else? I have on 1.6QR's and it was a massive improvement. Magnepan uses junk parts in their crossovers and frankly their tuning isn't the best.
So if his Detune sounds good to someone, then I'm sure stock sounds good to others. Maggie told me direct they are tuned differently on purpose. So he does not "fix" anything. He CHANGES it. Let's deal with truths and dispel myths. Some people may like his way, some may like Maggie's way, but in that guy's world, everything blows chunks, every manufacturer does it wrong, and he magically fixes everything. Bullshit I say. Perhaps I should send my TAD speakers so he can fix them.. 🤪
@@OCDHIFiGuy “so he does not fix anything. He CHANGES it.” How do you fix a design that has issues while not changing it? You do realize these things aren’t mutually exclusive, right? So I take that as no, you have not heard any of his crossover redesigns, you’re just defending this company and acting as if magnepan’s products cannot be improved via third party intervention. Odd considering you yourself sell fuse replacements on your site to improve magnepans, in fact your page is called “MAGNEPAN INSTANT UPGRADE” on your website.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I own the pair of Wilson Audio Duette he worked on. He did fix them, they are now spectacular. That's been my experience with his work, and your experience with his work is... zero?
@@mcgovernjimmyas he fix the speakers or has he fixed the room? changing its characteristic in the aspect of the speaker he could have fixed the room not the speaker. how far away do you normally sit away from your speaker?
Rules for audio apply to all speakers Just like gravity even if you don’t want to believe it You say all that and didn’t listen and compare the upgraded to the OG? Just about all Maggie lovers/owners I know have upgraded their crossover. So must be a reason even dedicated fan boys upgrade crossover and fuses.
LOL, totally missed the point... I mod Maggie's myself and I know every model... Because Ive BOUGHT them.. I still sell Maggie mods, why dont you listen to the video ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy I did must have missed the part about him slamming Maggie’s. Danny can be short straight to the point and call things out Sound familiar? LOL He is also a fan of Maggie’s and promotes open baffle But I understand how people get hung up on phrases like “fix” because it wasn’t broke to begin with and don’t think anyone would think Maggie’s sound bad
@@Pok-001 I call out overpriced bullshit, that deserves to be called out. LRS+ is absolutely NOT something to call out IMHO.. Thanks for your feedback however..
@@OCDHIFiGuy agreed!! Along with other American brands that offer more entry products. You clarified that well on the live stream Sorry I seen it late missed it live. Fan of both you guys. At first thought Danny was a little smug. Probably that engineer personality. Lol. Started following him a couple years ago when I found his speakers at a resale shop You god sir, inspired me to keep my rig all American. Just picked up a used Rogue pharaoh And ordered a new Gheshelli DAC With the upgraded GR research crossover and cables I’m all in for 3100$. A pretty good all US rig can be done on a budget. 😊😊
Here's my .02¢, which after adjusting for runaway inflation has to be at least .25¢. I have no issue with Mikey's opinion on calling out Danny for suggesting that the LRS+ is inadequate, especially considering the listed price. Reason being, Mikey has owned, and is quite familiar with LRS+, and knows it's a seriously legit speaker for it's asking price. I also have no issue with Danny's qualified opinion as a speaker designer, suggesting that the LRS+ is inadequate, and can be improved, again, based on his firsthand experience, and that of all his happy customer's firsthand experience. I think where things start to go sideways is when opinions are based on conjecture. I don't think it's a fair call to say someone doesn't know what they're talking about, if you have no firsthand experience with said fix or product.
I know I’ve criticized some things in this channel but I decided to buy Danny’s upgraded crossover and I can honestly say it’s one of the best speakers I’ve ever heard. While not the most expensive system I have a $55k system and I’ve not heard any speakers in my system that do what this speaker is doing right now.
@@OCDHIFiGuyI did the work it was ridiculously easy lol. Just a super simple crossover. I’m going to do his 3.7i crossover next. But I do plan to call him and ask him about the left and right channels being different before I commit
I'm all for tweaking whatever we have for the better or just for fun, however I have to agree with you that the stock LRSs are quite an achievement for what they cost. Maybe the way he expressed himself sounded a little pretentious and, instead of claiming "making it better/fixing flaws" would be better to present the modification as an "alternative sounding signature mod". At the end, I honestly don't care about measurements and let my ears tell me what makes me happy or not... and for this price range, the stock LRSs (both versions) were the 1st pairs in a whiiiile that made my jaw drop.
Cant follow your logic. As in the case of a TV monitor, the job is to be as transparent to the input signal as posible. Do brighter pictures look better that neutral one? yes to some, but it does not represent the signal as recorded. Same with speakers. You can tune a speaker to work best in a particular manufacturers enviroment, but if that tuning is compensating for source or venue conditions when you cant reproduce the same in the listeners rooms, it is not a good practice. A speaker that measures flat, as Danny attempts to do while improving crossover component quality, at least will not provide an additional coloration of the source material. I dont think that Magnepan needs any defending, they do build a great product that has stood the test of time, but it does not mean they are infallible. I applaud Danny for taking the time to engineer and provide an alternative to improve the product. Save the outrage until you hear the result of his tuning and find it not to your liking.
Holy shit you're actually coming in this late to yell me to listen to Danny's mods ? ROFL. They are the best. That's not my issue. He should not slag magnepan as he does not need to. But he kicks a company in the balls that supports his income. Messed up. Next you are confused that everyone likes reality. Fantasy is far more enjoyable.
Amir is a wannabe moron. Danny is a reputable designer and engineer with great company GR Research. Watch his video on the Magnapan then comment. Most speaker brands use inferior crossover parts and are built to a price point. Klipsh actually redesigned their crossover network in most of their speaker lines because of Danny's videos. And last you have to agree all the magnetic parts in the crossover and back plate on Magnapan speakers are not good for sound.
I’m reading through these comments. It’s insane how many ignorant people there are in the audio community. I’m starting to see why Mikey has to dumb things down and spoonfeed the sheeple. Mike was right on this one. Not Danny. Credit to mike for speaking up on this and subjecting himself to all of the flack.
Good information, thanks. I'm sure you can improve some aspects of the sound by using better components in the crossover but you can't do that for $1k, can you?
I think for what its worth one just has to listen to the output. Its a black box, maybe its worse maybe its better. Without testing, the scientific method tells us we can make no conclusion other than you voided the warranty likely destroying the resale value of a speaker thats universally praised by those after the absolute sound. Its quite a niche product for a hard core audiophile a product for a different age era.
Mikey, Please check your store e-mail??? I'm going nuts not knowing the song playing in your "short" featuring the Audio Note M3. Regarding Maggies; I just shipped my 1.7s back to Wendell and the boys for the *X upgrade*.
Great news on Maggie... ever heard of the Songza app ? Use your telephone to listen and tell you exactly what song.. i dont know what it was, I cant remember... Tool probably.. Off Fear innoculum
Lol. And your house isn't big enough and you don't have a personal driver... I don't see your point. It's $1K per pair... what do you want?? Lol. #ungratefulhuman
@OCDHIFiGuy You're right I don't expect anything more for 1k and to me they are actually underpriced.I was just saying there are issues that Danny pointed out that are correct and if you like to tweek and tinker there worth a modification. I think with this mod,a good high current amp and a powered sub or two, you could give some more expensive systems a good run for the money.
Far too simple minded of a statement. Let's activate your brain, shall we ? It depends on the purpose. Since it's a road car, it's a blend of performance and driveability. Make it faster and better handling, you will also make the ride less comfortable and the car itself harder to control.
I would be cool to have you do an A/B with Danny’s design. If there’s one thing I’ve learned by working in this industry for 30 something years, is that there are multiple ways to get beautiful results.
Maggie's have terrible waterfall plots. When the audio signal immediately stops the panels continue to quiver which 100 percent distortion. Some people like that quivering sound. I DON'T.....
You`re absolutely right, Danny is the painter that wants to paint everything white, because that`s his thing and earns money with it. He hardly cares about artistic impression, speakers just shouldn`t sound the same. Often it`s meant that way. Listing and good matching is the way to go. He has no respect.
So they deliberately designed them too have a poor frequency response & also vertical & horizontal off axis? In room response would be bad as well. Yeah that makes a lot of sense. I’ve heard that argument before Frequency over amplitude is accuracy & flat line to preserve the original recording
Well, that's a silly reply. It's more like this. They designed LRS+ with a very shallow slope to allow the two sides of the panel to overlap greatly across the frequency spectrum. Remember, it's the same membrane for both tweeter and woofer. This is their legacy design style and gives the traditional Magnepan sound. They prefer to design based on what sounds good to them as a primary directive. Danny and his followers on the other hand prefer to pursue perfect waterfall charts and measurement. Perfect measurements yield different sonic results. So Danny changes them to fit his taste in sound. It's different than Magnepans taste in sound. Magnepans recipe is fabulously successful. They do what they do for a reason and based on tradition. So to deem them "wrong" is like telling me the religion I practice is wrong. You're gonna spur a backlash. Kapeesh ??
@@OCDHIFiGuy I think Danny has no `taste` in sound. He watches graphs first and then likes the flatest an straightest lines. A bit like those clowns at ASR. I think people like that never enjoyed a single note of music.
Here's two questions that has me perplexed about Danny Ritchie's business model; is there a way one could a/b test his results before buying his kits? Plus, where's the reviews for his mods before and after? Just take Danny's word for it, right? It's so exasperating, more like frustrating. Fly to Texas I guess. Plus, here's another question for Danny; under what conditions did he accomplish his measurements? I'm guessing this is the Danny Ritchie 'secret sauce'. Don't want to give that away - he he.
I agree with OCD here. No offense, but quite frankly I'm fed-ud with Danny dissing nearly every speaker that comes out in order to sell off his products. He just does some measurements like it's official proof the speakers are improved. Measurements don't always dictate the outcome.
when you say the other speaker so You're talking about a pair of the speakers are different, not the tweeter and woofer in this sense, what is the benefit of having two different curves on two different speakers? you would have thought it would sound out of balance is it something to do with phase cancellation issues they do that? because they are a dipole. there's nothing wrong with tuning your speakers but you got to listen to them as you state you can't just use a fancy bit of software and get a flat response and think that's it game over, doesn't work that way with speakers. no you want something like an open baffle to beam you don't want it to have a wide dispersion only if you've got a really wide room where the speaker wouldn't be against the side wall for at least 15 ft that's why they sound better near the side of the wall these types of speakers not in the middle of the room.
Magnepan tunes left and right differently using "knobs" on different locations making the membrane vibrate differently. Tuning is affecting maybe 150hz and below and has nothing to do with the cross over way up in the +1000hz area. If they were tuned differently above 150-ish you would here that instantly...
This has to do with engineering constraints on a small planar. You can only fit in a certain number of resonant sections, and those are what equalize the bass. So they put different resonant sections on the two speakers, and they sum for flat response.
@@OCDHIFiGuy well I guess if I was going to be critical of a brand and have a "fix" you might what to find out if that fix actually works? Otherwise why waste your time and.
@@jazzlouise Im sure his mod works. my beef was with framing it up that Magnepan Engineers are stupid with their design and he needed to come to the rescue and fix it for the public...
I love you Mike but I don't agree with this. My friends Magnepan 1.7 crushed my 1.7i after he put in a GR research crossover. Off course there are some parts compromise at the prices Magnepan are selling their great speakers for! So there is definetly room for further improvements by uograding certain parts. Danny knows his stuff.
Danny does not know how to respect a speaker brand, fabulously more successful than his. That's my point. And what you heard is according to your perception. Others may not like what you heard. Never said he does not know what he's doing. He's chasing better measurements. And he achieves it. But there's nothing wrong with a factory Magnepan. That was my point. He sounded foolish to imply that...
@@OCDHIFiGuy yes I haven't seen that video. But if he took shots at Magnepan that is very unfortunate, all the while they are a legendary brand with perhaps the best value speakers in the business! The fact that you can get a speaker like LRS for 1k is kind of a mystery.. But from my personal experience the crossover mods he does on inexpensive speakers in general do make a difference.. The top Magnepan models would probably be a whole different story. I don't think they would benefit as much, if at all.
@@OCDHIFiGuy >"Danny does not know how to respect a speaker brand," This is really a misconception. I get it though. When someone worships an emperor they tend to shoot the messenger that says they have no cloths. When evaluating any speaker my obligation is to the customer and in that I have to be honest. I always call it as it is regardless of who or what company did the design work. Also, bigger is not better. How big the company is has nothing to do with quality of work. Klipsch is one of the largest companies in the industry and I have designed more upgrades for their products than any other company.
@@dannyrichie9743 I get it, youre the guy that does it the right way... Klipsch nor Magnepan knows how to do it right.. LOL... They just cant seem to hire good engineers...
Sorry but can’t agree with you on this one. You basically say nobody can improve on a design because manufacturer already has the “best” design ! Would you like to go back to driving Ford Model T because well Ford designed it “best”. You can NOT tell me all that extra steel in signal path is a good thing because well manufacturer put it there. It’s not even worth arguing that air core inductors and poly capacitors are better than steel core inductors and electrolytic capacitors. Also, it’s ridiculous to expect people pay ten of thousands of dollars on a system and the have a single sit for listening, this is a hobby that can be enjoyed more by sharing with friends and family, if someone can improve on that without paying any penalty then why not ! I was at an audio show and a guy had 20k planar speakers but a single column of chairs in the middle of the room, it simply looked ridiculous !
You're missing my point. The crossovers were changed. Not just parts swapped. I SELL pure silver replacements for the steel jumpers along with Fuse Bypass in pure silver. Look, if you want to perform surgery on your LRS+, I support it, just don't CHANGE them to try and match them they are not made to do that...
GR Research wasn't attack for all his upgrades. Only the Maggie upgraded was mentioned. Don't dismiss the singular rant or mis-characterize it as a complete chastising.
Flaws according to your prerogative. What you are trying to do is different than their aim !! Lol. Let's see you design a $1K per pair, made in the USA, planar magnetic speakers made by hand. You are missing the point. The speaker has zero flaws. They are engineered shortcomings to get cheap ass speaker buyers, something that slays for $1K. Nobody does it better... do you think Maggie could improve it if they charged $1500 a pair ?? Lol of course... do you get my point ? What you desire is a more expensive speaker.. just own it.
Magnapan speakers drain and destroy amplifiers like it is in style. These are not high end speakers in my experience, and I've been ordering stereo equipment since the 1990's through Crutchfield magazines. Expect one speaker to be louder than the other. Buy SVS and and save yourself the headache.
Mikey - I have no horse in this race, however your arguments contain logical inconsistencies. Are you humble enough to explore them if they are pointed out to you in a respectful manner? We will see. So here goes: 1) Your point about the left and right channel being built differently is logically irrelevant, since BOTH Magnepan and DR use identical crossovers in both. If the difference required different components per side, then Maggie would have used different components per side, and they didn't. So the fact the DR uses the same components, maintains the differences. Making your point about differences per side moot. 2) DR is speaking IMHO about improving the design because it was built to a price point - not trashing Magnepan who he constantly praises, though that is just my opinion and we can agree to disagree. Factually though, precedence and evidence indicates that it is TOTALLY reasonable to offer upgrades to ANY factory component or product by spending more than they economically could using a kit, without necessarily insulting the manufacturer. It is common practice in the Auto industry. A chip upgrade to unleash more horsepower. Bilstein shocks to improve handling (which often offered as expensive sports packages by the auto maker themselves). Is upgrading your shocks to Bilsteins "insulting" the auto maker? No, its just improving the product because of the recognition that the manufacturer can't offer that upgrade without increasing the SRP of the finished product above the target price/market. 3) In a court of Law, the first question the Judge/Attorneys would ask you is "have you tried it?" And if you answered "no", (rightly or wrongly) your case would be MASSIVELY crippled. Almost all you have said (including Maggies comments) would be tossed out and inadmissible as "hearsay". As a seasoned audiophile, how can you make these comments without hearing this upgrade for yourself? Surely you know that many non-audiophiles consider you (us) as nut cases because we "upgrade" power cables, interconnects and speaker cables? And we are all nuts because "all modern DACs sound identical"? Just my opinion here, but why are you expousing the same logical fallacies (having not listened for yourself) that they fall into? 4) Finally, your argument would be greatly bolstered by even anecdotal comments by people who have ACTUALLY DONE the upgrade. That is conspicuously missing, despite the fact that DR has NUMEROUS positive reviews from his customers. In conclusion - with all due respect - in a Court of law, I suspect your arguments here would be torn to shreds by any competent Attorney, and the case you are trying to forward would be summarily dismissed by any competent Judge. Please don't take this personnaly, and remember, I have no horse in this race (though I have masively upgraded my Maggie 20.1s without changing the factory design to huge - IMO - audible benefit). May I humbly suggest as a good compromise that you do the upgrade yourself and then report back - whether positive or negative - your results.
I do not agree with you Mickey. If you believe that a magnepan designer has a "golden recipe" for his transducers, you are either naive or you simply feel that your interests are "at risk" because you are a dealer. It is not true that magnetostats have to horizontally beam and that measurements do not make sense. I have extensive experience in this type of construction and in this case GR Research is right, LRS+ are screwed from factory (not only LRS+ in fact). What you are talking abount crossover slopes, left and right "difference" is simply nonsense.
Lol. Hey Marcin, do you own a speaker company ? Successful as Magnepan ? That's right, no, you don't. The problem is that you think you are smarter than others. You are not. Magnepan has their "factory recipe" this is their flavor, and it's what they produce. Don't like it ? Don't buy it then. The problem is nobody else is willing to sell you a handmade planar speaker for $500 each. So all you complainers buy the brand anyway. Lol. Funny. Next, you are assuming that"tuned differently" it means different crossovers.. lol. Ridiculous.. a silly assumption. The panels themselves are pinned and tensioned differently and use identical crossovers. Next, I am neither naive nor do I sell the brand. So again we see that you are a person who speaks like he knows something when he has no idea. Do your homework before pretending to be an expert. So if you wish to disagree with me, that's fine. Tell us the name of the planar magnetic panel maker that makes a pair of speakers for $1K USD that does it better than Magnepan ?? Explain why Magnepan would design engineered shortcomings into thier LRS+, or make your case for the designers there being "stupid" ...
@@OCDHIFiGuy The problem is that objectively LRS+ distorts and has poor linearity. I do not own a speaker company, so what? You think that you are smarter than GR engineer because you sell dreams to people and fairy tales about "passion for music", typical dealer strategy.
@@OCDHIFiGuy You're simply naive. Go modify magnepans yourself to find out the truth. But not only some stupid fuse, modify the crossover in a wise way...
@marcinwasilewski5414 lol. It's so funny. You think you know something.. I've completely rebuilt magnepan with my own baffle, outboard crossover, and pure silver wiring. We completely redid the crossover, and yeah, it sounded a lot better....so what ? Who gives a shit ? Evidently a guy named Marcin... lol. Sorry man, you don't represent the buying public.. I stick where the money is.... SEE ya...
Right on, Mikey What Danny hasn't taken into consideration is that once a speaker system has been butchered, it will no longer be cherry. The resale or trade value will be severely compromised. I have owned several pairs of Magnepan speakers over the years. They have always sounded balanced, smooth and musical. All they need is a "Good" amplifier. I'm a retired broadcast and recording engineer. I'm sick and tired hearing about "Cheesy" parts, especially about ferrite core inductors. As long as ferrite core inductors remain unsaturated, they'll work just fine and have less resistance loss to boot. Danny tries to give the impression of a know-all, do all speaker designer. He is neither. The human ear does not appreciate a totally flat Loudspeaker, it wants a pleasant sounding speaker, real speaker designer engineers know this. Mikey, keep up the good fight Dude. I'm glad you made the video!
It never ceases to amaze me, the furor something like this generates. Very little in hifi is objectively demonstrable. Measurements may be demonstrable, but whether those measurements are a reliable indicator of sound quality is up for debate and in the end a matter of opinion. Whether or not Danny's modifications improve the sound of the Magnepans is also a matter of opinion. Mikey's point here seems pretty clear: entirely apart from whether Danny's mods improve the sound, it changes the design so it necessarily changes the sound from what Magnepan intended. This isn't hard to understand or controversial. Other than for the strange partisan feelings people seem to have regarding their favorite gear and RU-vidrs, I don't know why anyone would object to Mikey's characterization of Danny turning the Maggies into Danny Maggies and not the Maggies that Magnepan intended. This is something entirely apart from whether or not Danny's mods improved the sound, something that is going to be a matter of opinion based on taste, not quantifiable fact. If you conflate the two things - an objection to the modification vs an objection to the claim of the modification improving the sound, then you're not understanding or sticking to the point I believe Mikey's making here. Instead, you're having a knee-jerk reaction to what you think Mikey said. You can object to Mikey's tone, his brashness, the absolute way he sometimes speaks - again, a matter of taste - but I don't see how you can object to the statement that Danny is changing Magnepan's design for these speakers. That is a fact. Whether or not that change results in an improvement is something else entirely and a matter of opinion rather than fact. That Danny claims his changes improve the sound is also a fact. That Mikey objects to Danny's claim is another fact. Different subjects and claims. If people would slow down, make sure of what's really being said, then stick to the subject, it would save a lot of vitriol and hard feelings.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Ha! Wish I could work for you, brother. Sadly, as a rule, the practice in social media is defend first, understand later (with the understanding optional and too often unlikely). It's a shame because it spoils what would otherwise be a good forum for offering perspectives and possibly educating each other. I usually avoid any debates of this kind as more often than not they're fruitless at best, insulting and recriminatory at worst, but sometimes I'm moved to chime in. This was one of those times. Thanks for saying things as you see them.
Mikey, back in the Mid 70's I was building 3rd and 4th Order Crossovers-"Linkowitz Riley and Butterworth Layouts" just looking for the Best Components/Inductors, Capacitors! Using oscilloscopes chasing imaginary Waves! I think"He" got stuck in our Wake/Vortex! Gotta Love Him though, he is trying to find a Niche/Chip in the Game! ✌️
If a manufacturer spent as much time and money perfecting their low end products as they do their high end products, why would anyone want to buy up to the high end product? They would be essentially shooting themselves in the foot. I would think they'd have to purposely leave some flaws in the bottom line product for the above stated reason, and to put a limit on engineering and development costs, which would have to be recouped in a higher selling price. It's not that Magnepan engineers are stupid and don't know what they're doing--the dilemma is "how many imperfections can be left in and still be competitive in a certain price category".
More like "how perfect can we get it and still sell it for $1000"? They don't make much of a profit on the LRS+. If they used fancy crossover components and so forth it would no longer be a $1000 speaker.
I'm gonna take Mikey's side here....I have to question a guy who believes that every manufacturer's speaker designs need "fixing" ...the sound of the LRS+ is womderful as it is...tweaks may make it sound different but not necessarily better....but when your business is tweaking you tweak...and make money...the LRS+ market is large.....that's fine...but in this case it's not needed....if some prefer the tweaked version then more power to them...frankly I get tired of hearing that every speaker needs tweaking...graphs are not everything.
The only thing Danny does is flatten the response on everything. Measurements are one thing, characteristics are another thing. Bet Danny doesn’t know that Maggies are tuned differently for left and right.
Yes, we already knew that the bass panel was supported differently on the left and right sides. The crossover is the same for both of them though, mine and the one from Magnepan. We also changed a lot more than what is shown in the measurements.
His whole shtick is how he turns bad speakers with inherent design flaws (who can believe they sold these, they will chime in) into sparkling gems, all with a kit you can install yourself. But wait there’s more…. If you order now you can join his cult
Whenever I watch Danny's videos, he appears as if he is God or Muhammad or Jesus coming down from the heavens to bless us with his measurements on a speaker and an eventual upgrade componet that he sells. Do they make the speakers sound better? I am sure that they might. But buying a $300 crossover for a $1000 speaker is a big upgrade. Lets not discuss the left/right aspect of the LRS+ but that upgrade is $300 more. If I had vintage Advent loudspeakers and I dropped Seas drivers in there for $300, would they sound better? Probably. My point is as an owner of many Magnepan speakers, you will not get more bang for the buck from the factory than an LRS or an LRS plus. Add two REL t5i's and you are done! You would have to spend many times more to come close. This is Mikey's point. Jesus comes down from the heavens and tells his diciples he has a fix for the Maggies and everyone is all in and bows. Even Jay, apparently, who has a different speaker of the century every month. At least Mikey goes with what he knows. I never think he is kissing anybody's arse. And I respect that. He doesn't know me, but I have bought some LRS upgrades from him. I actually like Jay and respect his entrepreneurial spirit, but if Danny has an issue with Mikey, he himself should come down from the mountain and say so.
Im just pointing out that saying there is something "wrong" with Magnepan from the factory is OF COURSE the pitch the upgrade salesman will have... its just a cheesy way to pitch.. Im sure the mod works... but theres nothing wrong with a shallow slope...
Not what I said, I said Danny sounded like an Idiot for slagging LRS+ as inadequate from the factory. Hes good ad designing mods and they work... that was never in question...
The guy that did the Maggie upgrade video is much like audio science review.. Another guy pumping his ego, acting as if he is qualified to stand in judgment of others. I call them lab rats.
He's been designing speakers for various manufacturers for decades. Many of his designs have won awards from well respected organizations, including the absolute sound
I'll dismiss the guy you are referring to! He thinks he is the best speaker designer in the world (oh not an Electronic Engineer....ok). In his world no speaker is designed appropriately. The dude is so arrogant it hurts. Would never buy anything from that charlatan. In one system, I am using a B&W woofer, Dynaudio D-54, Raal tweeter, and Mangnepan ribbons. Powered by LFD amps. This setup, I guarantee, will sound better than anything he has designed.
Sorry, but NO OTHER manufacturer makes their speakers different Left to Right. Danny at GR knows his stuff. Period. I own his TOTL open baffle speakers and they are sublime. He only "upgrades" speakers sent to him by dissatisfied owners. He does the design work for free and only makes $ selling the parts for the upgrades. The type of speaker shouldn't make a difference to the desired performance. Even frequency response, phase coherent, good power response. All important. Wide dispersion is only important when the speaker has to play in the real world. In a dedicated 2 channel room with one chair it is less important.
No need to be sorry. That's right. Magnepan is different than everything else in the market. That's why the principles you apply for everything else are not right for Maggie. Perhaps we should also point out NO OTHER manufacturer makes a $500 Made in USA planar Magnetic panel..hmmm lets see... shit ass profit as a gift to the people for what ?? So some guy with a ton of subscribers can slag the design as inadequate.. 👎 thumbs DOWN..
Small Maggies have to be different. That's because the acoustic equalization that compensates for dipole cancellation is accomplished with tuned resonant sections, and you can only fit so many resonant sections on a small diaphragm. The clever way they deal with this in the LRS+ is to use spread the resonant sections across two speakers. That gives enough resonant sections overall to create smooth bass.
