The Herbert Sobel Debacle - [Part 3] His Story, Family & The Tragic Aftermath (Band of Brothers) 

A good commander should not be afraid of being disliked by his men, but neither should he actively cultivate it as Sobel evidently did.

I like that this channel uses pictures of the real soldiers and not the actors who portrayed them.

Sobel probably is the reason why trainers are normally outside of the chain of command in modern front line units. Even the Marine Corps has separate trainers on the rifle range.

When the series came out, i was a senior in high school, now all these years later and serving and deploying myself, i look back at the series differently being a NCO that has deployed. I look at Sobel as now a tragic character that did a lot more good than bad. His post war life i find more tragic.

Thank you for your service Lt. Colonel Sobel, you will not be forgotten.

As someone who attended both Culver Military Academy and the University of Illinois, I had no idea about Sobel’s connection to either of those schools. It makes his story even more fascinating to me. As lately, TBS has pretty much turned into the “Friends” network and it’s on so much in our break room at work, it’s prompted a bit of discussion about how good David Schwimmer was in his portrayal of the Sobel character in Band of Brothers. In real life he sounded like a pretty complicated man, but I would agree that a lot of guys made it through the war alive because he was such a hard ass. Thanks so much for putting this series of videos together.

Thank you for putting the record straight. Thank you for your service Herbert Sobel, and may you Rest In Peace.

Great research and delivery! I enjoyed this series on Sobel.

Hard discipline and demanding standards often cause subordinates to hate a superior. That hatred deserves little consideration in an evaluation of the leader. However, injustice is another matter. E Company stories portray Sobel as an unjust leader worthy of their contempt. As for Sobel's own failings, Winters said Sobel refused to work on his deficiencies. Most condemnable.

As a teen (in the 1970's) I had visited that very-same VA hospital as my father was a patient with a heart condition. It was several days of waiting in the hospital so my brothers took to wandering and I tagged along (more like being their nanny). We ended up in a few of those wards where the horribly disabled were there until the ends of their lives. It was the most depressing of places. That VA hospital still had that light green lead-based wall paint that was peeling off in sheets and collecting on the floors. The wards smelled of death... not of the dead but of people who were dying by degrees. There were no interns or nurses and I suspect that maybe someone did a bedside check a couple of times a day to get vitals and to put down a food tray. Some clearly were young men with multiple limbs missing and were from the Vietnam war, many were older (50's and 60's) and had likely been traumatically injured in the Pacific or Europe. Nobody ever said anything in there; If the vets were awake at all they would just watch as you passed by.

Thank you for your service Herbert Maxwell Sobel

Its good that this Man's name is being somewhat cleared in retrospect.

Thanks for this; I have a new respect for Sobol. The BOB series didn’t have time to reflect on Sobol’s influence & affect after the training phase. He deserved better. Now he’s got it.

Michael has no right to try and wonder why his father did what he did when he abandoned him in squalor to die of malnutrition. That is simply unconscionable and he should forever be shamed. Regardless of Sobel's leadership, he certainly didn't deserve his fate. Another excellent job on the VA's part btw.

22 years in service here......the toughest officers i had helped me grow the most. I didn't like it at the time, but they challenged me and made me a better NCO.

This was a very good series. We are all flawed people, and one of the best ways to overcome our flaws is to combine with people who complement us so that their strengths and weaknesses are opposite of ours. The main failing of Sobel seems to be that he didn't make Winters an ally and devoted XO. The navigational flaw is minor. If you look at one of the best combat officers in the US Army post-WWII, Col. David Hackworth, he realised early in his career that he had no knack for navigation, and so always made sure he had an excellent map reader with him. It doesn't matter what kind of person you are as a leader, as long as you have a leadership team that complements you.

I like how you presented a full picture of Sobel and it wasnt just a bash on him piece. The fact that even the men who hated him still credit him is important to point out. The sad part is it sounds like if he trusted his men a bit more and was willing to take advice from those around him he could have been an excellent leader. Some times being a leader means knowing when to get out of the way (and listen to someone who knows more). Being able to leverage the strengths of the men he trained was the one thing he didnt understand or overlooked.

Ahhh, here it is, and you did give him a fair shake. I was critical after seeing part 1, and you told me to watch 2 and 3, so I did. I stand corrected.

Thanks for filling in the stories that made Sobel a mystery man. Glad to hear he was eventually respected by his unit. I look forward to your future videos.

It's about time someone put the record straight. I have worked under officers I didn't like and had little respect for for many reasons but to belittle and hold them up to critical scrutiny is pitiful

He was a hard man and definitely helped forge Easy Company into a success. However, he just didn't know how to inspire people to follow him and demanded respect more than he earned it. It's sad to hear about his later life.

This has been a great series. Ambrose’s book has a lot to admire but also deserves a lot of criticism for some of its obviously blinkered no depth portrayals of characters like Sobel, Blithe & Dyke!!

That was fantastic, thank you. Would like to see the same treatment given to Lt. Dyke. I’m visiting Lt. Dyke’s grave this weekend.

Thanks for your three part series. I have always been keen to learn more about Captain Sobel.

Nice series!

I took the same lesson you did from this. Sobel probably viewed his job as being hard enough on his men to ensure that everything that came after they were prepared for. Sadly, he just never knew when to quit or back down - maybe like Harold Ramis said of Bill Murray, "He became his characters." That is, maybe Sobel planned to start off as tough enough to ready his men for war, but eventually that just became his personality.

You continue to keep yourself incredibly busy producing these excellent videos. Thanks again. ✅

I don’t think I ever hated my drill sergeants but certainly began by intensely disliking them. By the end of infantry training, I had enormous respect for them. They were tough but fair, which Sobel was not. Clearly, Sobel perceived himself to be a combat leader, not a trainer.

Cpt. Nixon: Sobel's a genius. I had a headmaster in prep school who was just like him. I know the type. Richard Winters: Lew, Michaelangelo's a genius. Beethoven's a genius. Cpt. Nixon: You know a man in this company who wouldn't double-time Currahee with a full pack, just to piss in that man's morning coffee? I agree with nixon (im ignoring the map reading thing lol )

Great stuff. Thanks for the series and the insight.

I’ve watched several of your videos now. What a wonderful channel you have. Liked and subscribed!

Love your content…ty

Excellent series

Thank you for your service Lt. Col Sobel. You should not have died of malnutrition. That was neglected and someone should have been arrested.

He was a complex character. A fine training officer, which preserved his mens' lives and made them into great soldiers. And he was likely a sub-standard combat leader. No one is ever perfect across all leadership categories. He served his country honarably. And he lived his later years tragically.

How awful that he blinded himself, and then was neglected for 17 years, enough so that he died from malnutrition? Why didn't his children advocate for him?

Sobel was an excellent training instructor... But not fit for combat given the character in the show. My grandfather was a career NCO in the Royal Marines, joined at 13 and was 18 when the war started. He was an Intelligence Assault Commando and founding member of the SAS and SBS. Was the Radio Intelligence liason for the LRDG. So by DDay, as a regimental Staff Sgt in the 1st special service brigade and Lord Lovats chief of Signals, he was pretty bloody experienced at warfare. Yet he still had to take orders from men like Sobel who were not fit for combat. On DDay he landed with a green Lt. An 18 year old kid who bought his commision. The kid ordered them to dig in when they hit the beach, rather than move forward. My granddather advised him otherwise and the kid threatened him under incoming artillery. So my grandfather knocked the kid out and had two privates drag him up the beach with them. They threatened to send his fingers to his mother if he reported my grandfather for court marshal and an executionable offence. Not long later in the Hedgerows on patrol, the kid refused to keep his head down and wanted to play hero, despite my grandfather telling him to listen to his NCOs... and a sniper blew his head apart.

Sobel was clearly an outstanding trainer of men. His company’s achievements stand testament to the fact. Equally he clearly wasn’t able to engender the affection of his subordinates in the process. I’m sure they would rather be alive and victorious than dead with one extra friend.

The iron discipline is the Hallmark of the American military, especially elite units. Sobel's inability to read a map correctly was his biggest deficiency. Regardless,he didn't deserve to die in those conditions. The VA really sucks.

in his book Gaurnier (sp?) wrote tat after the TV show sobel's sister showed up at a re-union full of anger and he took her aside and they just talked. Reading the various books it seems in later years the enlisted men forgave sobel for the very reasons given, that they recognized he had trained them to such a high degree, BUT the officers, especially winters clearly had not forgiven him.

8:42 - I was fine right up until this, when I burst into tears. 😭

Although he was very good at training troops, which would make him beloved in TRADOC if he was serving today, Sobel would get fragged within a week by his own E-4 mafia if he ever led troops in a Forscom unit.

I always had the same sense of the man from watching BOB, even though the series didn't present that perspective.

If your men ADMIT, "He was the reason we are still Alive"... Thats better than Medal of Honour... No CO can be more competant than this man.....

Subbed.

I've often wondered how much of Sobel's supposed "incompetence" was due to undermining from his men, e.g. the map "prank"/sabotage. I'm not accusing anyone from Easy Company of anti-semitism, but it *was* pretty common in the US back then, so it's not out of the question. Glad that at least of the men recognized his value in hindsight. It's a shame his life ended in such a depressing way....

“The discipline which makes the soldiers of a free country reliable in battle is not to be gained by harsh or tyrannical treatment. On the contrary, such treatment is far more likely to destroy than to make an army. It is possible to impart instruction and to give commands in such a manner and such a tone of voice to inspire in the soldier no feeling but an intense desire to obey, while the opposite manner and tone of voice cannot fail to excite strong resentment and a desire to disobey. “ MG John Schofield

Training environments are one thing while combat is entirely different. You must have the trust of your soldiers.

Good insights. Its too easy looking at actors doing things off script as against what happened. 80 odd years ago. Who the hell are we to make judgement

its a shame that easy company refuse one of thier own god fellowship, its a shame in spite of his success he died alone, its a shame the "band of brothers" were not big enough to respect the one who made them, bless you Herbert Sobel

Having grown up in the south in the 1960's/'70's and having never even met a jew until i was in Engineering College. So knowing how Georgia would have been in the 40's, I've often wondered just how difficult it was for Sobel to adjust to just living in Geogia vs. Chicago where he was working before he was activated off the officer reserve rolls. Trust me, it would have been a real shock to a liberal minded urban jew.

Say what you want about the man but he knew what he was doing when it came to making one hell of a unit.

It appears he was more interested in how he looked than how well his men actually performed

Sobel obviously did a very good job of training the men of Easy Company as evidenced by their performance during the war. While Winters was dearly loved by his men, had he been their training officer that sharpened them into the fighting force that they were, I am not so sure that they would have had such affection for him. While I never had a similar experience during my stint in the Army, I did in my civilian career as a police officer. There was a chief of police that was adored by his officers, he basically allowed them to get by with anything, covering for them when they were involved in beating arrestees, beating their wives, and partying with underage girls to name a few. When a new chief was eventually hired and put his foot down, the officers hated him simply because he made them behave. As some did with Sobel, some of these officers tried to undermine the new chief's administration.

Whoever posted Sobel to the military police unit had great insight into Sobel's character.

For this reason, episode 1 is the most important of all. With no Sobel, there's no BOB

Every. Single. Time.

I'm glad that something positive was said about the man and his service. His portrayal in the movie made him out to be a resentful "buddy fkr". We all had that @hole that pushed us to our limit, and we all cussed the SOB, but we were all better for it. The big difference for my training was our SOB was was amazing with a map and compass.

He couldn’t have been incompetent to reach his rank!

5:16 what was bad foprm from Winter's? It was Sobel who didnt salute Winters. Was Malarkey referring to WInter's calling Sobel out for not saluting?

Wasn't poor form from Winters. Poor form from a martinet who demanded things from others but didn't want to live up to the same standard he held others to. With that being said, his final years were sad and Sobel deserved better.

It's as I have maintained from the beginning. That Sobel was was great trainer. Was responsible for many of them men surviving to the end of the war. I took some flak for stating that. It's OK as this has short series proceeded bore out what I maintained all along. He was good at training. Just was not able to lead men into combat. What happened between being relieved of his command and being transferred to the jump school and then transferring back in time for the big jump. Which showed he could lead in a small engagement on a battlefield I can only guess at. Perhaps at the jump school he studied a little more in depth in tactics. Though that would not seem possible as he was transferred back as part of support. It was not expected that any of those men would see any combat in that jump in to Normandy. Perhaps in that very real combat situation. Something finally snapped for him and suddenly he was an effective combat leader. Demonstrating the very thing he always promoted. Never ask a man to do what he was unwilling to do himself. That Bronze star has more behind it then I think some people realize. Malarkey stating what he did says that even he realizes that Sobel may have been an ahole, but recognized that Sobel's training kept him and others alive. And that is why I have small amount of respect for Sobel. As a man who knew how to train men. To enable them to have a fighting chance at surviving the war.

Well Michael might defend his father, but was not in contact with him. Bad son.

I have realized Sobel was excellent at training and his jobs but he was just not good fit for the position of company commander in combat. If he had been he would have died during Normandy.

By all accounts he was an exceptional human being just not a quality leader .

"Giving the men something to hate." That sounds like Herb Brooks, who was the head coach of the 1980 US Olympic Hockey team that "miraculously" won the GOLD medal at Lake Placid, NY! I must say, that I have a new found appreciation of Herbert Sobel! NO ONE is perfect, but we all seem to accel in certain areas of our lives. And that we somehow, no matter how small it may seem at the time, can make a difference in the lives of others, for the good of mankind.

Essentially a decent man. But ! as a former Royal Marine, I wouldn't follow him out of idle curiosity.

Officers don't enlist......

And Sobel's wife was very pretty.

But Ross crushed this role

His discipline probably saved more lives than anyone realizes, it's a pity he couldn't overcome his shortcomings. Lives depend on having confidence in your leaders. He failed to inspire that confidence.

LTC. Sobel since I have been see videos such as this, I have seen many dumping on Sobel, like they actually knew the Man, were part of Easy Company , when Sobel was in command, and the nonsense he could not read a map I'm totally guessing here now, Sobel was a Jew and in 1920, 1930's America it was not an easy time to be a Jew, just like today we see it at College and University Campuses across America. Many in modern day America have no idea that there was a very lively American Nazi Party , that drew tens of thousands at a convention in New York City. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was antisemitic. As was Winston Churchill. But they tolerated the Jews . To be a young Jew in America back then was not easy. And let's be blunt you more then likely had some antisemitic attitudes within easy company and the 506th, would not be surprised to find some klansmen or those who were sympathetic., mixed with the majority who were not. Having said that as a young jew growing up ,and through out his early life he may have come across such people , he may have heard or read articles of of crimes or violence against someone for just being a jew. While they did not have television or should I say in the time period it was just starting out , they had the papers, Radio and News Reales , the became aware of the Bier Hall Pusch, the Hitler Trial and the rise of Nazism . In Hitlers early days , the real Winston Churchill, praised Hitler, until he saw him for what he was. Sobel was an Educated man and he also graduated from the school of hard knocks. He was far more educated on Hitler and his agenda then most Americans were, I truly believe that Sobel most likely felt , that Hitler was out to exterminate anyone who was not Ayrian And the Japanese they would just crush your spirit , break your will and subject you to utter depravity, look at what they did to Korea, Nan King and coastal China Do not for get we were get are ass's handed to us in the Pacific , until june 42, at Midway , most do not know is yes the Japanese lost 4 fleet carriers, but they had 10 more , in the battle of Midway we had only three fleet Carriers in the Pacific, and we lost one due to naval combat. They had carved out a vast empire , the phillipines had fallen , Australia and New Zealand were under threat of invasion , that is what the Guadalcanal campaign was about and the naval battles around there and guys we were not winning those battles in the early days of Iron Bottom Sound. North Africa, while our invasion seems easy today it was not , we had a short but brutal fire fight with the French. The Kasserine pass did not go well, Sicily was not easy either but pales in comparison to the invasion of Italy and the battle of Monte Cassino etc This shit was live for Sobel. He correctly knew that they were in the fight for their lives and he was 100% correct. When I was a kid you had the Globe in a class room , we all were given the basics , Identification of contentiants, and there location and large Islands like Great Britain , Japan etc . As you moved along and up geography class was in every school in America that I ever attended . And Map reading was 101, so I call bull shit to the claim Sobel did not know how to read a map. When you join the armed forces you are going to get a basic education on Map reading and using a compass. And that will advance . He also went to a MP unit, from what I'm told back in those days these guys were a disciplined lot. Before going to Easy Company , so with the kind of mindset he had he was a task master, a man of discipline and they the members of Easy Company said it themselves he did everything they did . Now Dick Winters , I believe he was this happy go lucky young man , carefree , he most likely knew of World events , but felt there is not much I can do about it, So Sobel made three combat jumps, I was aware of the one and neutralizing the German Machinegun.

He couldn't have been a good combat officer as he was made a supply officer for the duration of the war. An effective combat officer is a too valuable resource to sideline.

shows how history can be distorted by those who write it. Sobel proved he was not incompetent as a field commander on D-day. He basically did what Winters did by taking out a German position (though Winters took out a larger artillery piece). He was also not the boob he is depicted in BOB in Korea

You've made and then repeated the common error so often repeated by others. Yes, also, including that made by some of his contemporaries. Commissioned peacetime officers merely set the directions and goals for the organization, and it's the NCOs that provide the true leadership. He set high standards in a safe environment, that Easy Company attained those goals wasn't due to any gift of Sobel's, it was more professional junior officers and by far most importantly, the NCOs and soldiers themselves. Often the only thing that makes one organization "elite" and others not, is that the elite organization is filled with men who made the conscious decision to be elite. I know that sounds cliche', but there is more value in the man who decides that he is the better man than others. I'm prior Marine NCO, infantry. I've seen good officers and others not so much. Sobel, by all accounts, was a petty tyrant who got off on his self-perceived authority. That authority would have disappeared the very moment he froze or panicked in combat.

Lots of Sobel hating Winters fanboys..... Sobel seems to be rather admirable: combat jumps, courage in action, family focused & a career soldier - unlike Winters. What i am about to say about Winters will not be popular. People who criticised Sobel but never knew him will tell me i never knew Winter but ..... Winters strikes me as a bit of a fraud. He served, so did many, but he approached Ambrose to basically write his story through saying it was his men's service he wanted not just recorded in some unit history but in a book for publication.... Winters encouraged his NCO's to mutiny, bad mouthed his boss (Sobel). I think Winters had an average war service & spent his post war life in a non-job in HR thanks to his drunk buddy Nixon. I think his war service was all he had to be proud of. He elevated himself to a god with a flawed, poorly recollected - or pro Winters skewed story. Now bring on the haters !

What I can see is... a bunch of rural area boys getting hate to go to school and be teach by the strict teacher. it's very common even nowadays student hate strict teacher. they will group up bad talking their teacher, they plan to key teacher's car. they hate Sobel just because he does his job.

what kind of a son left his father to die alone with malnutrition.