So after watching this.. you're telling me that the plot of Persona 6 will actually be that Igor becomes a magical girl in order for him to discover who he really is so that he can one day disappear/die. I like it
What's interesting is that despite having the appearance of a classic villain, igor truly wants to save humanity from harm by giving the partys of each game their personas.
He and his attendants follow the will of Philemon to make humanity the best version of themselves. That self actualization manifests in the final evolved Persona, like Messiah and Satanel
Igor was Philemon's loyal servant. So before Philemon left his position as Giver of Persona Power to Humans to take care of his enemies, Nyarlathotep. He gives responsibility to Igor in two tasks, such as, Igor being the Protagonist's mentor like Philemon or giving persona powers to the Human/Protagonist when Philemon is not there, as well as carrying out Persona Fusion in the Velvet Room with the help of his assistant. The Protagonist must also strengthen the power of his Persona by increasing friendly relations with his friends to awaken the potential of the Protagonist's Persona to become stronger by using Social Links.
Can't wait for the p6 party to be Maki, Maya, ressurrected p3 protag, post arena elizabeth, reformed adachi, cognitive akechi, and a soul searching igor.
I clicked on this expecting some superficial trivia but wow, you actually went above and beyond to collect the deepest, darkest deeplore. I appreciate it immensely.
The heart is a lot more meaningful seeing that you don't give it out like free candy. If you'd given a heart to both my comments it'd frankly mean less.
I played persona 5 first and I did not pick up on any of the very obvious red flags. The most obvious thing being his deep voice. But the second is how he isn’t acting very humble when you greet him referring to himself as the master of the velvet room. And finally there is the fact that he is one of the social links. The real Igor always maintains a neutral stance.
@@interrupted_reveriePeople who start with Persona 5 don't realize Igor seems different from normal because they never played the other games, it's not that hard to understand.
@@EmikaYamane7521 Exactly! I heard he gets possessed but I never heard his real voice before so I just thought that this Yaldabaoth character tries to control him for a bit at the end...no apparently he was possessed the entire time and hearing his real voice actually blew my mind.
So to some extent, the key to Igor’s dilemma isn’t “if he has” a soul, but “if he wants” a soul. If humanity made the human heart then Igor must make the Igor heart.
15:50 mary says "perhaps the human heart was created by humanity itself" that is like. the biggest tell im surprised noone picked up on. it literally plays directly into the idea of the collective unconscious which ALL of persona is built on.
In SMT this is also true. Humanity was created by YHWH/The Great Will, which also, paradoxically, was created by humanity as is with all supernatural entities.
@@4wingedowl Persona's aren't exclusive to humans, apparently you just need to have a personality (Teddy and Metis were shadows and still able to develop and use a persona)
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So Igor vows to only leave the velvet room until he finds the answer regarding his existence makes me think of a possible way we would get the answer. I feel if the voice actor for Igor were to retire and atlus wants to respect the decision to retire the character, then and only then might we learn about such answer.
The reason why his voice/role was changed in Persona 5, was due to his original Japanese voice actor, Isamu Tanonaka, had passed away. It very well could mean that Igor won't be appearing anymore.
@@TheFluBugZ Igor does have a new VA in P5X (which is in fact voiced in Japanese), so that might mean that they've finally decided to recast him for appearances in future games as well.
@@p.j.3578 I could be wrong, but i remember hearing that P5X is made by a different developer known for bad spin offs that are practically plagiarism, Altus just gave them the okay. Also, the velvet attendants eyes aren’t yellow so i just. Don’t consider it canon
As someone who just watched the entirety of Twin Peaks, Fire Walk With Me and The Return within this last month; and as someone who's played a ton of Megaten games/spinoffs over the years- this was definitely a good analysis! Along with Twin Peaks, I feel like there are so many unexplained characters and instances that even attempting to uncover any of their mysteries always leads to more questions. So much sYmBoLiSm in both series! I appreciate the lore video though, so keep 'em coming!
Like, any of Igor's assistants, we I think don't know where they come from. It's clear that they are not from the world(s) that Persona's protags come from, as they lack common knowledge over things that pretty much anyone else would know. Like, tossing money into a fountain doesn't actually grant you your wishes and there's no godly being managing such things, for example
I love the fact that you're entering into the world of video essays! This one was good and aligned with some theories I had heard and thought of. Great work! 😊
Crazy? I've been crazy once...they locked me up in a room, a velvet room, a velvet room with personas. Personas? Personas make me crazy...crazy? I've been crazy once....
Igor is likely tied to Carl Jung and a caricature of Jung Himself. The posture and how he sits is similar to some pictures of Jung. Igor is also that gap in-between realms that collective unconscious that is between dream and reality. In ways Igor fits that archetype of the wise old man guiding the young hero on our journey. his knowledge of the persona's would also make sense because it was Carl Jung who believed that was why we used archetypes because every mythological creature and god or goddess fit into an archetype, all story telling tropes use to shape their personalities.
That was a great video. You definitely did your research and left no stone unturned. Also, the idea of Igor leaving the Velvet Room every once in a while because he has found his answer is oddly touching.
According to the wiki, there was some info about how the P1 characters hang out with Igor in his spare time. So I also saw his exit as potentially hanging out with them. Either way, i like to imagine you’re right too
Hell yeah man, so glad you're making essays now! This is really great, I was obsessed with Twin Peaks for a few years, specially when The Return came out. I'm glad I'm not the only one making the connection between Persona and the series hahaha
You know I asked around in the past whether there was any connection between Igor and Victor given the Frankenstein connection and them both conducting fusions for the player but no one could find any. I knew there had to be something more to it.
SPOILER WARNING FOR PERSONA 5 ENDING!!! I interpreted Igor letting the twins do the fusion in 5 instead of doing it himself not as Igor getting Lazy, but rather a hint, along with the new VA, that that wasnt the real Igor.
Not cited, but I believe Igor has very strong, or must I say, long reference to Tengus. Long nose yokais that cannot go to heaven or hell, which makes sense for Igor since he's not human, nor a demon. Tengus are also not entirely good, that also matches the fact that Igor seems to have a hidden agenda from the player, unlike his dolls. Also not mentioned, but often overlooked, I wonder if Igor can sleep at all, since his eyes always appear to be tired. Not sure how it related to anything, maybe to allude that the velvet room isn't a dream nor reality? Since he owns the place, maybe he's in constant state of sleepwalk. He's been very absent lately in the series, I hope he's brought back. He's an iconic figure of persona games. Thank you Johne for the video!
I feel like it's less that he has a hidden agenda and more that he has to take a hands-off approach. He's a fortune-teller who gives the protagonists the tools to solve the problem, but can't directly interfere himself. SMTV already saw us losing Mido, so it would be a shame to lose Igor so soon after. Philemon's permanently in butterfly-form now, right? Might be interesting if he came back, maybe with a more stable cast instead of just an Attendant acting as a foil for the protagonist du jour.
The reason for uh, 3:57 THAT picture in the art is so if my memory is correct for the models know what's clothes and what's not. I learned this from a xenoblade LP, the guy was talking about how he mistaked a picture of theory for the art books of the same nature as a bata desgin.
thank you John! Twin Peaks / BV are some of my favorite pieces of media. There's some Nocturne promo artwork that totally looks like the black lodge, too :-) It makes me happy to see connections with lynch's work in these games because one of the first games i ever played, Link's Awakening, is directly inspired by the atmosphere of twin peaks. probably in no small part a reason why i love smt so much.
An interesting video analysis. As someone who does video essays for school assignments, especially for Film Production, this was well done in my opinion. Hope to see more on the channel in the future. 😄👏
I must point out that when character enter Velvet room, those who are not Wild Cards mention that they were standing with blank faces there for a moment, so Velvet room is not a real place but a mind room.
Ehhhhh, it's not so simple Those highly attuned can see and even enter the Velvet Room. People in Persona 1 mention a weird store in the mall (where one of the main Velvet Room entrances is located) that's always closed but sometimes has music playing from within. Additionally, several non playable characters across Persona 1 and 2, particularly those of artistic disposition, mention seeing the blue door to the Velvet Room or even dreaming of the attendants. One particular NPC, a composer, even mentions the location by name. The demon painter is also presumably not a Persona-user but comes from our world
15:14 - A doll named Mary who's gained too much sentience? Giving me "Spirit Hunters: Death Mark" flashbacks... I simped for that doll so hard and what was my reward!? Depression :(
If he’s a doll questioning his humanity and his nose grows longer, then he’s a lot like Pinocchio. To assist the MC is saving his father from the belly of the whale- that very chaos which corrupts the human heart and creates beings like the demiurge Yaldabaoth.
Ok but can we talk about how he called the MC simulacrum which means by definition a picture or representation of someone/thing I think he broke the fourth wall
there was also cut content of igor showing up when you started a confidant in p5. idk if that counts as him leaving or doing wacky brain magic or something but there were ideas of showing him in the real worldish
Just rediscovered your channel, im pretty sure i used to watch lets plays of yours! Your voice is like Igor Itself a voice that lulled me to sleep many a nights!
I’ve always viewed the plots of P3 onwards as plays on the basic foundations of Frankenstein. Two Victor’s can be found in Philemon and Nyarlathotep, and two monsters can be found in our protag and their final enemy. Naturally Frankenstein is a bit of a tragedy, but Philemon basically bets on the idea that if given the bonds denied to him the Monster can ascend and represent the best of Humanity. It is a gamble setting the true Monster against the ideal of the Monster through the strength of bonds alone. This is why we have the luxury of gaining strength through our friendships, and why we have Igor and our attendants. The Monster we represent, while perhaps still lacking their Victor, has Igor to tend to their growing power by calling forth supernatural creatures and our attendant who serves as both a “maiden of fate” and a beacon of “loving guidance” even if they don’t always seem loving. Notably the attendants are all named after characters from Frankenstein who meet their deaths as I recall, making them an ideal marker of how far we can invert the tragedy of the Monster. That is to say, it we fail and fall to our otherwise predestined tragedy then the moment of our failure would be marked by death until at last we lose our Attendant and seal the tragic ending of the tale.
Ok. SMT and persona ARE NOT separate franchises! And I'm not talking that Persona was for a time released under SMT Brand. But there is in fact a direct continuity between those games. SMT If is canon spin off, of mainline SMT games. And protagonist of this game is Tamaki Uchida. Yes. That side character from Persona 1 and 2's. Who even in the game mention that it is not the first time for her. Not to mention that in Persona 2 she work for Kuzunoha Detective Agency. As side note. Persona 3 mention Nanjo Group what is owned by major character or Persona 1/2's. I personally believe that lab explosion mentioned in those games may be directly related to Persona 2 events.
Indeed. Persona 1 and 2 at least are basically confirmed to be in continuity with Devil Summoner. Like you said, Tamaki blatantly appears in both those games and directly references the events of SMT If, which are also referenced in Soul Hackers through the Karukozaka uniform and the demon delivery missions to Hazama. All the details about the Kuzunoha agency in the P2 duology from the uniforms to the symbol to the music perfectly line up with what the first Devil Summoner game gave us. I’m pretty sure Persona 2 even directly refers to Tamaki as a “devil summoner” in the original translation. There’s also an official guidebook or something like that which directly states that Daisuke Todoroki is possessed by Kyouji Kuzunoha which is a major plot point in the Devil Summoner games. There really isn’t any room for debate in regard to the connection between P1/2 and Devil Summoner. It’s a lot less clear with P3/4/5, but the small references to P2 in those games do suggest that Devil Summoner should still be in continuity with them, even if it’s never really acknowledged anymore. There’s also the unused lines about the P1 and P2 outfits in P5 which straight up confirm the events of those games as still being canon. This would transitively apply to Devil Summoner as well. Not great evidence thanks to the lines being unused, but evidence nonetheless.
@@NeutralOffensive It is just my theory, but I personally believe that Soul Hacker, because it take place in far future. In fact is earliest game in SMT timeline (I need finish new Soul Hacker to check is there is confirmation). Anyway we do know that Stephen was working on teleportation and things did go off control, but I think it was rather technological singularity then actual demonic dimension. SMT5 make strong paralel to Persona franchise, alluding that every human to have own destined demon. Strange Journey and Digital Devil Saga may actually take place before and after actual apocalypse. With strong implication that earth go through gray goo event. Then mainline SMT games take place in the Expanse (Virtual Reality) after that. At one unspecified point world is recreated and reverted back to 90's. Devil Summoner games what take place in earlier past, may be related to historical obsession of one of corporate leaders, who create security program JHVH. But I'm not sure if time actually did go that far, or it was a subbranch of Expanse? Anyway, there is strong implication that Persona, SMT3/5 and Devil Survivor games, may take place paralel to each other. But that is just my theory.
Great video! Honestly, it makes me wonder if Jose’s inclusion in P5R is a call back or attempt to loop that part of Igor’s backstory into Persona? The person who created him or asked him to look into humans is left unanswered a side from saying there are more people observing humanity than one might realize (which I think is also stated in Persona 4), and they both show interest in helping humans due to someone they knew previously. With both original creators and the director of 3-5 taking a backseat or moving on from the series I doubt we’ll ever get an answer to Igor and Jose’s origins. Also… what sister?
Makes sense tbh. Jose would’ve been an addition by the ppl who are remaking P3 (Aigis is said to also have a similar journey to Igor). Considering the rumors of said team including more P1-2 content in the future (party game and remakes), it might be building to something. It’s been mentioned in 4 as you said, so for them to just drop it seems unlikely.
Thanks for the video. I have been curious about igor, but never enough to do what you did and look through all that stuff. Thats some real dedication or self satisfaction. Either way thanks
If he's there to discovery what he is too, then it must be a little depressing to assist a lot of different people and see they changing so much and discovering who they are, leaving satisfied while Igor remains there waiting for the next guest
Given that Igor's JP voice actor passed away and Atlus went out of their way not to recast him (instead re using old voice lines) and keeping him absent from all following spin offs, I think having Igor find the answer to his identity between Persona 5 and 6 would be a great way to write off the character and play tribute to his oldest lore.
Watching this really reminds me that igor japanese voice actor passed away.. The igor from p3 till p5 animation.. He really build good character and his journey to find the answer of his creation..
My heart stopped when I heard “Twin Peaks”. I hadn’t watched this video until now, but yesterday I decided to rewatch Twin Peaks on a completely random whim. I haven’t watched it in about three or four years. What are the odds?
Ahhh... Igor. Reminds me of the first time playing Persona 4. I thought he's an evil villain that will start his evil monolugue for the prolog like many other series I played/watched. I was fully wary of him when I started giving him my own name but eventually just forgot about all that the moment I had fun with persona fusion lol
Thanks for the video dude, which sounds weird to say but Igor is actually a character I really enjoy from the games despite knowing very little of him. It's nice to see some spotlight thrown his way once in a while.
Ngl, if Atlus ended up adding more Igor arc to the persona series with this premise then I would be so happy about it. I just imagine Igor is not there for most of persona 6 or even all of it. Leaving his assistant/s to lead the fusions (causing more failed fusions) after time Igor finds what he is searching for for, but after something goes awry with the assistant/s running the velvet room that threatens something he has come to cherish he returns to the Velvet room. Tending to his work to make sure that the journey he took and what he came to love and cherish is safe through the only way he can. Supporting the journeys of those who come into the room. Occasionally leaving to enjoy the fruits of his journey, something that most others who enter the velvet room unfortunately don’t have the pleasure of doing.
You mention the connection between Devil Summoner and Persona being 'possible' but isn't it explicitly confirmed when the MC of SMIT If, which IS connected to Devil Summoner, shows up in P2 and directly references the events of those games? It'd be pretty big for an easter egg, consider they are like actually plot-relevant.
You've got a real talent for research-vids in addition to the LP's! I bet this took you ages to do - maybe not three years, but still! XD Effort to be commended, my dude!
Honestly I would love a side-game of the series for us to play as the Master of Personas himself. Being the first wild card and beginning his quest from the beginning, trying to decide if his fate was made by another or one he made himself.
I think another inspiration Igor has is Pinocchio. They're both apparently puppets made by a creator and they are both finding humanity within themselves. There's also that mention of Igor's nose growing just like Pinocchio.
I just got introduced to the Persona series with part 4 on PC. Purely coincidental, I named my character Dale Cooper, because I'm a huge Twin Peaks fan. Again, I knew NOTHING about the game, except that the Persona series was really popular, and a friend of mine loved it. After playing for maybe an hour, I called up my friend and said "Is this just Twin Peaks?" And I said - outsider comes into town, finds an interdimensional room where events are hinted at, and then proceeds to set out to solve a high school murder.
